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[Tenguman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/20/p...partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

The officials, who asked not to be identified, said CBS News would most likely make an announcement as early as today that it had been deceived about the documents' origins.

 

[Escape Goat]

Whoops!

 

[Tritroid]

Good. I think Dan Rather needs to be the one who reports it too. Biased bastard.

 

[Razoric]

Haha CBOWNED.

 

[Tenguman]

Good. I think Dan Rather needs to be the one who reports it too. Biased bastard.

Oh I'm sure he will. And I'm sure that he will also claim that he broke the story on the docs being fake.

 

[Idle Will Kill]

I didn't really follow this story. What were on the documents?

 

[Tritroid]

I didn't really follow this story. What were on the documents?

www.cnn.com / www.foxnews.com / www.msnbc.com / www.abcnews.com / etc. etc. etc.

 

[Ecrofirt]

I think Rather should retire along with it.

This has nothing to do with my conservative views, but entirely to do with the fact the he was stupid enough to believe something without checking it over and then reporting it to the world. Ruined his reputation in many people's eyes.

 

[Tenguman]

I didn't really follow this story. What were on the documents?

They were supposed to show that Bush got special treatment in the National Guard. They were the basis of CBS-60min 2 story a couple of weeks ago. Some doc-experts on the web saw the .pdfs of those memos online and raised questions to their authenticity. A storm brewed, Dan Rather got all huffy -- defended the documents calling people who questioned them "partisan attackers" (or something like that). Made a few stories about how they were real. More experts found more flaws....etc etc. Now CBS and Rather are going to admit they were fake.

Basically the fake documents and CBS's and Rather's reluctance to admit they were wrong killed the original story.

Now everyone is questioning CBS's news bias. People questioning Dan Rather.

The internet is killing mainstream media

 

[Tritroid]

The internet is killing mainstream media

That's probably for the best.

 

[BigGreenMat]

Ecrofirt give me a freaking break. The guy got a story handed to him by a trusted editor who had double checked the documents and said they were legit run with them. Turns out Rather got screwed. It happens and is shitty and Rather trusted in his editor and their sources too much. He is taking his licks and so it CBS, but to say he should retire because of one bad story is shit. I didn't see President Bush or any of his people resigning after it turns out there wasn't a sniff of WMDs in Iraq despite all of our best intelligence? Oh and don't say George Tenet, he wasn't a Bush crony and stepped down after a LONG term as CIA chief when the getting was good.

 

[Tenguman]

What's funny is that the day after CBS aired the orginal story -- the democrat-party, eager to counter the Swift-Boat stuff, latched onto it like hawks. Then a few days later, after it was revealed that in all likelihood the docs were forged, quickly stopped all talk of bush dodging his National-Guard duties.


You can't blame them really, but it's just funny to watch. Like little Pikmin swarming in on an enemy to attack only to quickly run away in-mass cause the enemy can breathe fire.

 

[MetatronM]

You can't blame them really, but it's just funny to watch. Like little Pikmin swarming in on an enemy to attack only to quickly run away in-mass cause the enemy can breathe fire.

:lol

 

[pestul]

But.. but.. the Pikmin are the good guys..

 

[Ripclawe]

This could be lots of fun.

 

[Incognito]

what's funnier than cbs admitting the docs are fake? the white house not admitting that anything contained in the docs are fake.

but it's nice to see CBS finally stepping into reality.

 

[Ripclawe]

what's funnier than cbs admitting the docs are fake? the white house not admitting that anything contained in the docs are fake.

How the hell is the white house supposed to know if they are fake or not? CBS told them it came from the guy's private file. The fake but accurate journalistic standard you want is beyond stupid. Just make up lies, and then say "well, the gist is okay! defend that!"

Who is the fall guy... Mapes, Howard or Rather?

 

[Incognito]

How the hell is the white house supposed to know if they are fake or not? CBS told them it came from the guy's private file. The fake but accurate journalistic standard you want is beyond stupid. Just make up lies, and then say "well, the gist is okay! defend that!"

Who is the fall guy... Mapes, Howard or Rather?

maybe the information falls in line with the documents they tossed away in feburary?

 

[Tenguman]

maybe the information falls in line with the documents they tossed away in feburary?

I thought they found those like a month ago.

 

[Incognito]

naw. the ap won their lawsuit last week concerning "lost" files, so the whitehouse has a week or so to release ALL the documents.

frankly, i don't give a shit. i'm tired of hearing about vietnam and stupid documents.

 

[Ripclawe]

naw. the ap won their lawsuit last week concerning "lost" files, so the whitehouse has a week or so to release ALL the documents.

.

That would be the pentagon and the defense department, not the White House.

 

[Haddonfield]

what's funnier than cbs admitting the docs are fake? the white house not admitting that anything contained in the docs are fake.

but it's nice to see CBS finally stepping into reality.

yah, i didnt think that was "funny" as much as it was smart... why distract from the onslaught of negative attention going towards CBS, it was all working out perfectly, why would the white house need to say anything? and they didnt.

 

[impirius]

Courage

 

[Ripclawe]

http://drudgereport.com/

EXCLUSIVE

STATEMENT FROM DAN RATHER:

Last week, amid increasing questions about the authenticity of documents used in support of a 60 MINUTES WEDNESDAY story about President Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard, CBS News vowed to re-examine the documents in question—and their source—vigorously. And we promised that we would let the American public know what this examination turned up, whatever the outcome.

Now, after extensive additional interviews, I no longer have the confidence in these documents that would allow us to continue vouching for them journalistically. I find we have been misled on the key question of how our source for the documents came into possession of these papers. That, combined with some of the questions that have been raised in public and in the press, leads me to a point where—if I knew then what I know now—I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question.

But we did use the documents. We made a mistake in judgment, and for that I am sorry. It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

Please know that nothing is more important to us than people's trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully.

 

[Tenguman]

^^ er what he said

 

[Ecrofirt]

Ecrofirt give me a freaking break. The guy got a story handed to him by a trusted editor who had double checked the documents and said they were legit run with them. Turns out Rather got screwed. It happens and is shitty and Rather trusted in his editor and their sources too much. He is taking his licks and so it CBS, but to say he should retire because of one bad story is shit. I didn't see President Bush or any of his people resigning after it turns out there wasn't a sniff of WMDs in Iraq despite all of our best intelligence? Oh and don't say George Tenet, he wasn't a Bush crony and stepped down after a LONG term as CIA chief when the getting was good.

The man reported a story that was obviously fake and gave himself and CBS a black eye by defending it so vehemently. The station lost a lot of credibility, and Rather is the one that reported the story.

If I fucked up something that major, I'd resign. A lot of people would.

 

[teiresias]

Good to see Novak had the balls to resign after he unethically outed a CIA agent to the world . . . oh wait.

 

[Ecrofirt]

Hey, I'm giving my opinion.

If you fuck up the reputation of a company, or you do something incredibly stupid that compromises the security of a company I believe that it's right to resign.

 

[Incognito]

as teris mentioned, what if you jeapordize the life of a PERSON, ecrofit?

 

[Ecrofirt]

Then I'd be a fuckup and I'd resign.

I can already see you trying to corner me into a bush thing, and that's all well and good.

I don't stand for everything the man has done.

 

[Tenguman]

I think the biggest thing to come out of this is nothing related to bush or kerry, but rather it signals a turning point in journalism. The internet brings a voice to people who otherwise would have not been heard, and because of that journalist will have to pay more attention to what they report on. There are thousands of little eyeballs out there that will speak when people like Dan Rather make a report based on something that's false.

The internet gives a voice to that crazy-guy who's specializes in 30-year-old type-faces. Those few guys posting on the internet in their pajama's just spanked one of the biggest news outlets in the world.

 

[Diablos]

This will surely add a couple extra points to Bush's lead. Thanks a fucking lot, CBS!

 

[Dilbert]

The single best thing about this announcement is that all the people with hard-ons for the "librul media biazzz!!!!1!!1!!" can move on to other non-stories.

Meanwhile, the REAL issues go on being ignored.

 

[brooklyngooner]

Meanwhile, the REAL issues go on being ignored.

Just as the chimp and his handlers wish it.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

The single best thing about this announcement is that all the people with hard-ons for the "librul media biazzz!!!!1!!1!!" can move on to other non-stories.

Meanwhile, the REAL issues go on being ignored.

Exactly. Everything going as planned.

 

[Ripclawe]

Now to find out how far does this reach the kerry campaign

We know about Cleland.

 

[ghostface]

Why does this remind me of the whole post-war WMD issue, but reversed with conservatives saying "lets hang'em" and liberals screaming "its not their fault, they thought the info was real!".

I love hypocrisy.

 

[Mooreberg]

a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

hahaha

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Except no one is really defending CBS here. Everyone here knows they effe'd up big time.

On your 2nd point, we are talking about forgery of documents pertaining to someone's National Guard service 30 years ago to reasons for going to war with a country PRESENT day. How on fucking earth do the two compare?

If anything, any liberal worth his salt is HATING the idiocy behind these forged documents because all it's doing is distracting all of us and the media from the REAL issues.

 

[ghostface]

Um, yeah, re-read my post, which was nothing more than a humorous comparison, and stop being so anal. Thanks for playing!

 

[Ripclawe]

On your 2nd point, we are talking about forgery of documents pertaining to someone's National Guard service 30 years ago to reasons for going to war with a country PRESENT day. How on fucking earth do the two compare?

This is a huge issue, you have a big time news organization, despite warnings beforehand, put a story on the air that was a flat out lie to a sitting president. Now we have connections between CBS's source and the Kerry Campaign, who Carl Cameron on Fox news reported talked about this story for week before coming up on 60 minutes.

This story is a lot bigger than this apology.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

Looks like the links are starting to form between CBS, the DNC, and the dude who faked the documents.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-20-cbs-documents_x.htm

 

[xsarien]

This is a huge issue, you have a huge intelligence agency, despite warnings beforehand, that put questionable and faulty intelligence in the hands of a sitting President who took it at face value. Now we have connections between Halliburton, the Vice President, and possible Israeli moles in the Defense Department who could've actually helped shape Mid-East policy

This story is a lot bigger than this apology.

Fixed, small typo. I understand, a lot of the keys are close together.

 

[iapetus]

I think Rather should retire along with it.

This has nothing to do with my conservative views, but entirely to do with the fact the he was stupid enough to believe something without checking it over and then reporting it to the world. Ruined his reputation in many people's eyes.

Damn straight. Anyone who takes a serious action on intelligence gained through sources that later turn out to have been inaccurate should resign. They've staked their reputation on the version of the story they've told, and if they didn't check those facts well enough, then they've got to take the fall.

So when are you going to start campaigning for Bush to retire as a result of the dubious intelligence he took the US into Iraq with? Just interested, you understand...

Ah, I see. It does have something to do with your conservative views after all.

 

[Ecrofirt]

Took long enough for someone to come at me with the obvious Bush attack that I left myself wide open for.

Here's the thing. I'll tell you right now that I don't believe in everything Bush says and does. The problem is, there's no one else that ran against him as a republican. If there were, I'd be taking a very long hard look at that person as a candidate.

I don't really stand behind Kerry at ALL. There's a number of things about him, and the entire Democrat parrt, that I don't agree with at all.

This leaves me in the position of voting for the guy that I can at least stand behind a little bit, or voting for the guy who I can't stand behind at all.

I can't very well be bashing the only viable candidate in my eyes. If this was the end of his second term, however... well that's an entirely different matter.

 

[Ripclawe]

It has nothing to do with conservative views and everything to do with journalism

NYtimes: Jayson Blair, editor fired
Dateline GM trucks fiasco: head of the news division gone, couple of producers
CNN vietnam gas story: producers and Arnett gone
USAtoday: Jack kelly(fake sources) and editor gone
Daily Mirror fake brit torture pics: Editor fired
BBC sexed up report: BBC head and reporter gone


SOmeone will go down for this and so far its Mary mapes.


and the ONLY source CBS had was Burkett who was not credible in the first place.

 

[Banjo Tango]

This is a huge issue, you have a big time news organization, despite warnings beforehand, put a story on the air that was a flat out lie to a sitting president. Now we have connections between CBS's source and the Kerry Campaign, who Carl Cameron on Fox news reported talked about this story for week before coming up on 60 minutes.

This story is a lot bigger than this apology.

Are you talking about Burkett? From what I heard, he's been known as a partisan tool for some time.

I wanna know if Burkett's made any claims on where the got the docs.

I've also heard that the number of typography criticisms, and the speed of which they responded was suspcious. But no actual accusations.

Edit: Did Geraldo take a fall for that fuck-up involving the troop movements and that whole Tora Bora thing? I honestly don't know, but if anyone should have...

 

[Ripclawe]

I wanna know if Burkett's made any claims on where the got the docs.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-21-cover-guard_x.htm

Sitting in a rocking chair in his weathered ranch house south of Baird, Texas, Burkett recounted his continuing efforts — beginning before he was discharged from the Texas Army National Guard in 1998 — to clean up what he saw as Guard corruption and mismanagement. He said that activity led to a telephone call in March from Ramirez and her offer to provide documents damaging to President Bush.

Burkett said Ramirez told him she had seen him the previous month in an appearance on the MSNBC program Hardball, discussing the controversy over whether Bush fulfilled all his obligations for service in the Texas Air Guard during the early 1970s. "There is something I have that I want to make sure gets out," he quoted her as saying.

He said Ramirez claimed to possess Killian's "correspondence file," which would prove Burkett's allegations that Bush had problems as a Guard fighter pilot.

Burkett said he arranged to get the documents during a trip to Houston for a livestock show in March. But instead of being met at the show by Ramirez, he was approached by a man who asked for Burkett, handed him an envelope and quickly left, Burkett recounted.

"I didn't even ask any questions," Burkett said. "Should I have? Yes. Maybe I was duped. I never really even considered that."

By Monday, USA TODAY had not been able to locate Ramirez or verify other details of Burkett's account. Three people who worked with Killian in the early 1970s said they don't recognize her name. Burkett promised to provide telephone records that would verify his calls to Ramirez, but he had not done so by Monday night.

An acquaintance of Burkett, who he said could corroborate his story, said he was at the livestock show on March 3. The woman, who asked that her name not be used, said Burkett asked if he could put papers inside a box she had at the livestock show. Often, she said, friends ask to store papers in her box that verify their purchases at the livestock auction. She said she did not know the nature of the papers Burkett gave her, and he did not say anything about them.

 

[Banjo Tango]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-21-cover-guard_x.htm

Danke.

 

[Diablos]

I can see it now, fast forward five years from today:

Interviewer: Dan, would you like to give us some kind of personal statement about the faked Bush documents that almost made CBS cease to exist?

Dan Rather: I'd -- I'd uh, Rather not.

GET IT? RATHER NOT? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA