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China says United States should 'brush up on' South China Sea history
- Thread starter Blablurn
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water_wendi
Water is not wet!
The only schooling America will be undertaking any time soon will be in hard knocks.
Trump just tweeted how everybody knows he takes in all the facts before making a decision though.
Yoshimitsu126
Member
Didn't we have any Article earlier that Trump doesn't read?
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
The conversation about those islands are so damn stupid. China has no legimate right to them, if anything they belong to Vietnam or another closer power.
darkistheway
Member
I'm sure he does. Real actual facts and the all-important alternative facts. Have to balance it all before pulling the trigger...
lastplayed
Member
True, but possession is 9/10ths of the law and all. As long as China is physically sitting on the claimed territory, it's basically impossible for anyone to push them off.
They aren't right at all. Some historical fishermen venturing to those rocks some centuries ago doesn't mean they have economic and military rights thousands and thousands of miles from their coast where it is just a few hundred miles from Vietnam or the Philippines, even worse is that they are reclaiming acres of land for military outposts and airstrips.
There is a reason China has issues with almost all neighbors and not the other way round.
Also, they have no problem developing land and helping Pakistan in disputed Kashmir lands with India but then expect no one to say anything as they are literally stealing land. They like to use international laws and treaties when it benefits them but then want to declare invalid things like Geneva conventions and the UN conventions on land and sea etc.
Yes, Trump will get to that, right after he's done reading "All Quiet on the Western Front."
Yep.
Yep.
China pretty much accepts Taiwans claim to the land as China views its own supremacy over Taiwan So Taiwan ownership is Chinese ownership.
The Islands themselves were French Possession prior to WWII then Japan Invaded. Allies made a broad statement regarding Japanese possessions but never actually made an indication on who would get the Spratleys. So Taiwan took it upon itself to invade the Spratley's. They then were forced to abandon them when the Chinese Civil War went bad. Then some guy from the Philippines tried to claim the Islands forcing Taiwan to reinvade.
Whole thing is a cluster fuck over maybes. Geographically the surrounding region looks favorable to the prospects of oil deposits etc. but there is no firm answer yes or no. All this idiocy could be over nothing.
And as far as possession being 9/10ths of the law and all that. China only controls 1 of the 14 islands. Philippines has 7 Islands and Vietnam has 6.
They have pretty much made islands and military installations out of reclaimed reefs and rocks. So much pollution and garbage and such a violation of international and human rights. They will inevitably house a naval fleet there, fighter jets and bombers and threaten Vietnam and Philippines and others into submission as soon as they can challenge the US militarily.
To be fair territorial claims have always been determined by historical ownership, and not by who is closest to the land in question. Every party has a bit of a claim to it, and because China actually occupied the islands, they've made the question moot for now.
Both Taiwan and China pretend that the other entity doesn't exist so they're effectively on the same side in this dispute. This can be seen most clearly in the Senkaku Dispute where China let Taiwan do most of the heavy lifting.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Trump's in the library right now studying hard.
lastplayed
Member
The islands just got 10 feet higher.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Pulling an all nighter.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
No, China is objectively a bully and in the wrong here. Too bad, Blablurn.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
Sooo.... sometime in the near future they will have a fleet capable of staring down the US Navy?
Okay then.
kame-sennin
Member
Trump won't be able to focus on this story because the guy's name is Wang.
andythinkpad
Member
Has anyone brought up Alternate History yet?
If only the US had a really important tacit agreement with China that they could use as a bargaining token, maybe something about a one China... oh wait, that was already spent without getting any benefit from it.
Yep, China is wrong, that's why USA sent a fleet to patrol those waters some time ago. Sadly I don't see how your current administration can deal with this situation without escalating it in the most dumb way possible... maybe they'll be too busy with Iran.
Yep, China is wrong, that's why USA sent a fleet to patrol those waters some time ago. Sadly I don't see how your current administration can deal with this situation without escalating it in the most dumb way possible... maybe they'll be too busy with Iran.
perfectchaos007
Member
So do GAFers think China should get all the islands they claim are their territorial waters? Thats what it sounds like from most of these posts. Looks like they may be stealing some from Malaysia, the Phillipines, and Nam but what do I know
andythinkpad
Member
US can join China's Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership
Nah I think China is going to deal (just promise no more new island or whatever) because geopolitically it's best for China to sit back and do business right now when the current US administration try to start a fight with everyone else including half of the people in the US.
At a glance it looks bad, but territorial claims aren't based on the proximity to one's country. For example, the UK controls the Falkland Islands and Denmark controls Greenland.
So do GAFers think China should get all the islands they claim are their territorial waters? Thats what it sounds like from most of these posts. Looks like they may be stealing some from Malaysia, the Phillipines, and Nam but what do I know
Its Trump. So obviously China is in the right. Are these posters or robots?
So do GAFers think China should get all the islands they claim are their territorial waters? Thats what it sounds like from most of these posts. Looks like they may be stealing some from Malaysia, the Phillipines, and Nam but what do I know
Hehe
Except China tries to pretend they own everything at the height of their power and try and downplay others. Will China give Inner Mongolia back to Mongolia proper? This isn't a territorial claim. China is fabricating lies about how they had fishermen land near these atolls and reefs, and under that pretense have dredged acres and acres of land into unsinkable aircraft carriers in a sense.
Yes. I said challenge the US. This means prevent a steamrolling of their navy by the US. The US is conventionally superior right now. 10 or 20 years from now at the rate of Chinese military spending and double digit jumps every year, unless the US will want to have an all out war, they wouldn't be able to do much in the South China Sea and they know it. The biggest deterrent against the US is nuclear Chinese submarines around the pacific and installations like this which will almost certainly be fitted with ballistic missiles and radars to monitor and threaten other navies.
CadetMahoney
Member
Those pics are like something from a sim game.
I'm not that optimistic, we are talking about a totalitarian state. Those are all about looking strong and the members of the party that make such a concession would be eaten alive by more hawkish politicians.
That's where the "possession is 9/10ths of the law" comes into play. China is laying claim to all of the territories at the height of the Qing, with some slight concessions. Taiwan lays claim to all Qing territories, and this would include Outer Mongolia as well.
The Albatross
Member
So do GAFers think China should get all the islands they claim are their territorial waters? Thats what it sounds like from most of these posts. Looks like they may be stealing some from Malaysia, the Phillipines, and Nam but what do I know
Most of the posts have no idea what they're talking about, but they're agreeing with China because China is posing themselves as an adversary to the Trump-led United States. If this story came out 6 months ago, while Obama was president (who also opposed Chinese expansion in the South China Sea) then you'd have as many posts saying, "Get fukt China" and photos of TIanamen square.
Yep, and individuals in those countries are already being fucked over. Chinese commercial fishermen have been overfishing waters that are distinctly not-Chinese territorial waters and it's only expanding. It's not just about the military or a distinct military aggressive/offensive action... It's, let's say there's two boats in "disputed" territorial waters, one of then Chinese and one of them Phillipino, and the two boats are having a dispute over the territorial fishing... And then one boat can get Chinese fighter jets to buzz over the other boat, or can have a Chinese war ship sail within a few miles of the dispute. It's not offensive, it's not a military action, it's not any suggestion of war. But it steadily reinforces "this is Chinese territory," when it never has been and isn't recognized as such.
People in this thread aren't "for it," but they're just automatons who hate Donald Trump so much that they will laugh along with China's joke and side with China in a dispute that goes back well over a decade and had been an issue throughout the entire Obama presidency as well.
Ether_Snake
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Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Yeah, but those actually had populations throughout the ages, plus the Falkland Islands have no indigenous population. The Falkland Islands is a case of the nation of the first permanent colony having control, Argentina has no basis in international law for their claim to the Falklands.
China's case is mostly bullshit, partially because of how records were kept, but when there's no real ties other than "we never planted a flag, but we uh fished there", well so did the Vietnamese and everyone else in the surrounding area.
China is a big bully.
Here is the UK's territory:
No. It's looks nothing like that. First of all, you're including the Republic of Ireland in that bubble....Again, the exclusive economic zones and territorial claims don't look like that... The UK has many remaining territories in the Atlantic Ocean, owing to history. The Falklands had no indigenous population. The UK landed early on and eventually stayed with the first permanent colony. Spain/Argentina have no claim. Nearest neighbour is not relevant, but when China's claims are "well we uhhh, fished, we fished", so did everyone else. Much of those "islands" in the South China Sea aren't really islands or above water most of the time. China is seriously just being a dick, and how appropriate given the shape of their claim.
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