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Comics that reflect mental states/perspectives (Mister Miracle #1 spoilers)

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
I want to wax-bullshit about Mister Miracle #1 for a bit. If you haven’t read it, I strongly recommend you do.

There will be unmarked spoilers for that issue.

We good?

Cool.

So for context, a summary of Miracle Man from Amazon is as good as any:

Amazon said:
Scott Free is the greatest escape artist that ever lived. So great that he escaped Granny Goodness' gruesome orphanage and the dangers of Apokolips to travel across galaxies and set up a new life on Earth with his wife, the former female fury known as Big Barda. Using the stage alter ego of Mister Miracle, he has made a career for himself showing off his acrobatic escape techniques. He even caught the attention of the Justice League, which counted him among its ranks. You might say Scott Free has everything...so why isn't it enough? Mister Miracle has mastered every illusion, achieved every stunt, pulled off every trick - except one. He has never escaped death. Is it even possible? Our hero is going to have to kill himself if he wants to find out.

...and the comic opens with him like this:

Mister-Miracle-DC-Comics-Rebirth-Spoilers-1.jpg

...and we follow him through the aftermath of his suicide attempt. Or maybe the lead up. You don’t really know.

Fuck me is it good. Real good. Hence the avatar. :)

I mostly want to talk about this though:

mistermiracle1-d.jpg


The comic reflects Scott’s post/pre-suicide trauma in a number of ways: Panel breaks between Scott and other characters; art shifts that reflect his mood; the disjointed chronology; multiple panels making whole page compositions. There’s a genuine attempt at depicting trauma (depression, PTSD) and it’s expressed by using all the tricks a comic book has.

Then there is the genius of

mistermiracle1-d.jpg


Sure, they used similar panels in Sheriff of Babylon, but
I haven’t read that so shut your face, yeah
?

Simple bold text against a black background instantly separates it from everything else on the page. It’s even separate from caption boxes by size, a more tactile font, and the inversion/perversion of their typical colour scheme (black writing, white background).

An image wouldn’t have the same effect. I heard a guy on Action Figure Comics say he would rather Darkseid’s face was slowly revealed. Not only would that be hackneyed as all fuck, it would end up just another image on the page.

The text INVADES the comic; it supplants the primary mode of communication in comics: the hallowed image. The ‘Darkseid is’ is stark, stamped across the book almost (almost) at random. The contrast helps. It’s like the words are a brand searing themselves on our mind’s eye.

When you first turn a page, you scan around a little, right? Even accidentally. It’s a dirty secret, but it happens. But there is a dead void on most pages. Even in your periphery, you notice them. As you read further, it eats up more and more panels till it outnumbers the art. Because we read comics the way we do, we can’t resist it; we can’t escape the inevitability of it. We’re tied to the tracks of the page and it bears down on us like a goddamned doom train.

mistermiracle1-d.jpg


At Scott’s quiet moments or moments of trauma or stress, when he feels the bleak flash of his stomach falling through and the darkness pushing down on him, and that feeling fills his whole world... we’re right in that pit alongside him, right in the void where

mistermiracle1-d.jpg


...which has to be the most effective use of a comic book to portray depression that I’ve seen.

What I’d love to know is, are there many comics out there that have similarly used the form to reflect a character’s emotional state or perspective? I mean, beyond sepia tones to represent the past?

Another example:

I think Dr Manhattan’s perspective is effectively portrayed in Watchmen. Like, if you take in a whole page (or even a double page spread) of Chapter ‘Watchmaker’, you get a sense of his perspective. Our experience of time is reading through panels individually from left to right. His is seeing all the pages and panels at once:


His knowledge of future events comes from the fact that he views time at all points at the same time. Past, present and future is all one and the same to him, and that’s beautifully represented using a simple series of panels. The natural state of a comic book gives us the perspective of a God :D

So yeah, it’d be amazing to get pointed to any other comics that use the form to reflect a character’s emotional state/perspective. Have at it GAF!
 

Fury451

Banned
I honestly don't have anything to add, other then it's been a really fantastic an interesting book so far, and while I have a mixed pinion of Tom King and Batman, his Vision, Omega Men, and as of right now Mr. Miracle all seem to be somewhat connected in theme, presentation, and overall expert craftsmanship as far as storytelling and imagery goes.

The first issue of Mister Miracle is haunting at times. The television interview was a great example of this.

Answer your question though, there's lots of books that explore mental states and themes, and some the do it very well. Unfortunately at the moment I'm drawing a blank on what a lot of them are, but I'll post again if I think of them.

I do know Ed Brubaker tends to be very good with this both and his mainstream work as well as his side work like Kill or Be Killed, Sleeper, The Fade Out and Fatale, as well as the excellent Criminal books
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
I don't think I've read anything that works nearly as powerfully as Mister Miracle has. Like there are always little moments that are neat, like Ben Urich's fear hearing the cop be killed over the phone in Born Again, or having to turn the book completely around to keep up with Batman's mental decay in the Court of Owls, but yeah.... That's ultimately really surface level.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
the series bucky barnes the winter soldier had an off psychedelic feel to it
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think I've read anything that works nearly as powerfully as Mister Miracle has. Like there are always little moments that are neat, like Ben Urich's fear hearing the cop be killed over the phone in Born Again, or having to turn the book completely around to keep up with Batman's mental decay in the Court of Owls, but yeah.... That's ultimately really surface level.

Didn’t think of Court of Owls actually. Good shout. Like you said though, it’s a wee bit gimmicky.
Still cool though :)

I do know Ed Brubaker tends to be very good with this both and his mainstream work as well as his side work like Kill or Be Killed, Sleeper, The Fade Out and Fatale, as well as the excellent Criminal books

Thanks for these. I’ve read Coward which I thought was really good. Any other recommendations from the Criminal series?
 

Prurient

Banned
I reckon I Kill Giants does a pretty good job of showing someone dealing with trauma. It's well handled/revealed, I won't post too much to as it's well worth reading.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
I reckon I Kill Giants does a pretty good job of showing someone dealing with trauma. It's well handled/revealed, I won't post too much to as it's well worth reading.

Yeah, that’s a great book. Had a big lump in my throat by the end. I dunno if that’s using the actual comic book to get that across as opposed to the art and story though. Do you know what I mean? I dunno, I might be a little too narrow.
 
Great OP.
I will wait until the entire series is out before I read Mister Miracle. I bought the first issue but I prefer to wait. Reading Omega Men in basically one sitting was a very special experience.

The "Darkseid Is" thing reminds me of Morrison of course. From The Filth to the Batman of Zurr-En-Arh (spelling?) issue, he's done some great works in that vein. Hell, even We3 qualifies. But he's more about ideas than characters I guess.

Comics are a very special art form, when the medium is used to its fullest it can really go in some wild directions and explore certain thematics in a unique way. That's why I dislike people like Millar who basically just write movie storyboards.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
The "Darkseid Is" thing reminds me of Morrison of course. From The Filth to the Batman of Zurr-En-Arh (spelling?) issue, he's done some great works in that vein. Hell, even We3 qualifies. But he's more about ideas than characters I guess.

That’s another good shout. Same technique too, though it didn't give me the same feeling as the MM panels. That point in MM when the text panels crisscross the page and lead into the splash was chilling.

Quitely’s bullet-time panelling in We3 was phenomenal. He managed to give more information, yet retain the kinetics and speed. Surprised it hasn’t been poached.

Comics are a very special art form, when the medium is used to its fullest it can really go in some wild directions and explore certain thematics in a unique way.

Definitely. I haven't seen anyone do anything as fresh as Miracle Man in a while. Really excited to see where it goes.
 

phanphare

Banned
Jeff Lemire on Moon Knight

what I read was really good, need to catch up I've only read the first trade

main character is schizophrenic and that plays into the story in some cool ways
 

besada

Banned
Just wanted to say that King's Vision, Mr. Miracle, and Sheriff of Babylon are all amazing in their own ways.

I really enjoyed Lemire on Moonknight and the craziness he did with that, too.
 

Ri'Orius

Member
Street Shaman Question

S7fJTix.jpg

First panel: a reminder that Superman has x-ray vision and uses it liberally.

Last panel: respect the law and people's civil rights.

Good job Supes. I'm sure you got a warrant to search Lexcorp the last upteen times, right?
 

The Kree

Banned
The art style of Alias is reflective Jessica Jones' state of being. There are a lot of jagged and rough edges, and desaturated colors in the present day.

Code:
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c9/c4/fa/c9c4fa4873050efe3b74a1ce4be8da9a--brian-michael-bendis-michael-okeefe.jpg[/IMG]

When there's a flash back to earlier times in her life the art style changes to reflect how she was at the time - vibrant, colorful, shapely.

Code:
[IMG]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/1573686-alias25_08cr.jpg[/IMG]

One of my favorite books ever.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
The art style of Alias is reflective Jessica Jones' state of being. There are a lot of jagged and rough edges, and desaturated colors in the present day.

Code:
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c9/c4/fa/c9c4fa4873050efe3b74a1ce4be8da9a--brian-michael-bendis-michael-okeefe.jpg[/IMG]

When there's a flash back to earlier times in her life the art style changes to reflect how she was at the time - vibrant, colorful, shapely.

Code:
[IMG]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/1573686-alias25_08cr.jpg[/IMG]

One of my favorite books ever.
This is a good pull. More specifically that Jessica's early superhero days are presented more similarly to 90's comics with how they're rendered, but even further back with her childhood, the art is even more stylized to line-up with 60's, 70's era comics.

Also kudos to Matt Fraction's Hawkeye.

An entire issue devoted to the dog's own sense of logic and perspective with creative use of paneling, and Hawkeye himself dealing with being deafened afew issues later.... which was quickly swept under the rug by the follow-up writers because COMICS
 

Moonkid

Member
Subjectivity is really interesting, thanks for the plug OP. The first thing that comes to mind is Asano's surreal Oyasumi Punpun which isn't so much portraying a specific state of mind or condition as it is providing a subjective lens into how the titular character views themselves and the world around them.

 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member

Awesome! Think I may have to look into that. Artwork is incredible.

The art style of Alias is reflective Jessica Jones' state of being. There are a lot of jagged and rough edges, and desaturated colors in the present day.

Code:
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c9/c4/fa/c9c4fa4873050efe3b74a1ce4be8da9a--brian-michael-bendis-michael-okeefe.jpg[/IMG]

When there's a flash back to earlier times in her life the art style changes to reflect how she was at the time - vibrant, colorful, shapely.

Code:
[IMG]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/1573686-alias25_08cr.jpg[/IMG]

One of my favorite books ever.

That’s another good shout. Really enjoyed Alias back in the day (a friend lent me a couple of collections along with early Powers).

You’re right, very clever use of art style to reflect period and memories, especially in conjunction with a character that’s aware he’s in a book. As I recall, there are a lot of traumatic memories too. Did that blunt the effect or heighten it?

Why wouldn’t a comic book character’s memories be in the period style? It’s a nice angle that has the effect of speaking to us as readers that are part of the comics ‘continuum’. Like, cultural history as memory. It’s cool! :D

May have to revisit it.

Also kudos to Matt Fraction's Hawkeye.

An entire issue devoted to the dog's own sense of logic and perspective with creative use of paneling, and Hawkeye himself dealing with being deafened afew issues later.... which was quickly swept under the rug by the follow-up writers because COMICS

Is it good? I’ve been meaning to grab it on TPB. Didn’t realise how ‘playful’ it was with the form.

Subjectivity is really interesting, thanks for the plug OP.

Plug...?

The first thing that comes to mind is Asano's surreal Oyasumi Punpun which isn't so much portraying a specific state of mind or condition as it is providing a subjective lens into how the titular character views themselves and the world around them.

That’s some nice art. What’s it about exactly? I take it a collection is available?
 

Moonkid

Member
Plug...?



That's some nice art. What's it about exactly? I take it a collection is available?
Plug = recommendation/sharing :)

It's a coming of age/slice of life story that follows a kid from childhood into adulthood. It's divided into different parts of his life as he navigates the challenges of relationships, identity, and so on. An official translation only began from last year/early this year so a full collection isn't available yet, just individual volumes.
 
Why wouldn't a comic book character's memories be in the period style? It's a nice angle that has the effect of speaking to us as readers that are part of the comics ‘continuum'. Like, cultural history as memory. It's cool! :D

There's a really incredible issue of Stormwatch by Warren Ellis where Jenny Sparks recalls her life throughout the 20th century. The early years are drawn Siegel and Shuster style, then it switches to Will Eisner, it gets all weird and trippy (almost Crumb-like) in the 60s and so on... Really great work by Tom Raney on the art. I'm not a huge fan of his but that issue was fantastic. And the writing also matched perfectly the mood of each era. As the art becomes more refined and gritty, the story takes some really dark turns because of what Jenny was going through at the time. Damn, I love Ellis.

Supreme also does that. The 90s stuff by Joe Bennett is pure Image nonsense (for the era), and the retro flashbacks by Rick Veitch are drawn golden / silver age style.

Edit - a couple of pages from Stormwatch, I can't seem to find the issue number though:

 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Is it good? I’ve been meaning to grab it on TPB. Didn’t realise how ‘playful’ it was with the form.

I mean the story itself is really pretty low-key. It's just the life of a superhero when he's not dressed up and out being a superhero. But it's exceptionally charming and unabashedly human. It's the book that got me excited about reading Marvel regularly again.
 
I may be only loosely on the theme here, but what comes to mind is the echo character in the Bendis daredevil series. She is deaf but with an incredible ability to perfectly copy any action she see's whether fighting style or playing an instrument. She has a unique view of the world and there is an issue drawn by David Mack with quite an unusual art style where you see that point of view.

Though maybe not represented by as much in the art/page set up as some other series most of the Bendis Daredevil run is about Matt Murdocks mental state and breakdown. He has spent his life repeating through a cycle of pain with the Kingpin and nothing every changing for the better that he snaps mentally and declares himself as the new Kingpin of new york in the hope of breaking that cycle, as expected it doesnt end well. Then the later Waid series is almost a reverse of his mental state, instead of dealing with his pain and problems he goes almost to the other extreme of forcing himself to be overly happy/jokey when he doesnt feel it, all the people that know him know its a front to avoid dealing with his problems but dont know how to get through to him.

DAVID-MACK-SPLASH-PAGE.jpg
 

Keym

Member
Wow, I need to check out that MM series.

Morrison's Batman RIP could fit into this? Maybe? Honestly, half of the time I had no idea what was going on.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
Plug = recommendation/sharing :)

Ooooh. I’m a moron.

Supreme also does that. The 90s stuff by Joe Bennett is pure Image nonsense (for the era), and the retro flashbacks by Rick Veitch are drawn golden / silver age style.

Edit - a couple of pages from Stormwatch, I can't seem to find the issue number though:

Veitch again? I’m gonna have to look into more of his stuff. Did he do Dark Empire...?

Oh, and I fucking love Ellis.

I may be only loosely on the theme here, but what comes to mind is the echo character in the Bendis daredevil series. She is deaf but with an incredible ability to perfectly copy any action she see's whether fighting style or playing an instrument. She has a unique view of the world and there is an issue drawn by David Mack with quite an unusual art style where you see that point of view.

Though maybe not represented by as much in the art/page set up as some other series most of the Bendis Daredevil run is about Matt Murdocks mental state and breakdown. He has spent his life repeating through a cycle of pain with the Kingpin and nothing every changing for the better that he snaps mentally and declares himself as the new Kingpin of new york in the hope of breaking that cycle, as expected it doesnt end well. Then the later Waid series is almost a reverse of his mental state, instead of dealing with his pain and problems he goes almost to the other extreme of forcing himself to be overly happy/jokey when he doesnt feel it, all the people that know him know its a front to avoid dealing with his problems but dont know how to get through to him.

DAVID-MACK-SPLASH-PAGE.jpg

Holy shit. That’s gorgeous.

Isn't 'Darkseid Is' suppose to be a callback to a Grant Morrison story?

Yeah, ‘Rock of Ages’, right?

There’s a really great (and old) article about Darkseid on Mindless Ones that totally sold me on the character as a concept; of what Darkseid has represented over the years. It’s a touch on the pretentious side, I guess, but there are some great points.

The article might be six years old, but it goes some way to explaining how King uses Darkseid in MM, I think.
 

Fury451

Banned
Jeff Lemire on Moon Knight

what I read was really good, need to catch up I've only read the first trade

main character is schizophrenic and that plays into the story in some cool ways

Warren Ellis' Moon Knight as well as Lenore's were both great for this. Felt that the recent runs really dove into that aspect of him in a great way.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
main character is schizophrenic and that plays into the story in some cool ways


Stop. Elaborate, I’ll listen.

Warren Ellis' Moon Knight as well as Lenore's were both great for this. Felt that the recent runs really dove into that aspect of him in a great way.

There were a couple of cool things about Ellis’ run.

Issue 5 (I think? The Raid-style action one) was superb in how it framed the action and managed to tightly control time. Had to be one of my favourite extended action sequences in comics.

I love how Moon Knight’s design stands out from any scene he’s in. Not sure if that’s a normal thing for the character but, given he’s schizophrenic, it subtly reinforces his mental separation from the reality around him. Very cool.
 
The current She-Hulk comic may interest you. It's about Jen dealing with her trauma after the events of Civil War II. I haven't really been keeping up with it, but it was a very introspective book with her dealing with issues one day at a time sort of.

Shade, the Changing Man is another good choice I think.
 

Keym

Member
Yeah, ‘Rock of Ages’, right?

There’s a really great (and old) article about Darkseid on Mindless Ones that totally sold me on the character as a concept; of what Darkseid has represented over the years. It’s a touch on the pretentious side, I guess, but there are some great points.

The article might be six years old, but it goes some way to explaining how King uses Darkseid in MM, I think.
Great read. So Final Crisis can be interpreted as a struggle with depression? I'll have to give it another read sometime.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
I don't know what Dark Empire is so I'm just gonna say... Maybe?

It’s Star Wars EU. I was way off, that’s Tom Veitch :D

Anyway, Supreme is essential reading. It's basically happy Alan Moore's perfect Superman run.

I can’t believe I never got around to reading it! Next pay day...

...although there is tons in here I need to get.

Great read. So Final Crisis can be interpreted as a struggle with depression? I'll have to give it another read sometime.

Absolutely: world not making sense; bad guys winning; being dragged down into a literal black hole; disaster at every turn. Morrison has pulled that trick a couple of times, as I recall. His JLA run had a bad guy who he described as depression. Name escapes me.

Yeah, it is a great analysis. I’m hooked on Darkseid now, though few writers ‘get’ him in the way the blog points out. King is definitely one of them.

there are basically just different levels to what's going on, how it's presented, and what "reality" actually is, it's done in a really fun way

That sounds really interesting.

I don't understand the Darkseid is thing.

Do you mean the meaning of the phrase, what it is in the context of the story, or how it’s used or what it represents?
 
To me, it reads like a religious chant that contextualizes Darkseid as a way of life. Someone who's more than just a powerful being.

Also since Darkseid represents all evil in every way basically, it's basically just saying "Evil is...". It just means evil still exists, that's how it reads to me.
 
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