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Controversial EU copyright change faces key vote

llien

Member
EU lawmakers are set to vote on a copyright reform that could change how internet companies treat uploaded content from users.
A version of the proposal was rejected in July after a grassroots campaign, and fierce campaigning on both sides.
Critics fear the rules are too broad and could affect parodies, remixes, and even links to articles and websites.
But many musicians, authors, and other creators back the reforms which they view as necessary to support artists.
Hundreds of changes have been made since the July vote, but opponents say major issues remain.

What is the controversy?
The proposed copyright directive is supposed to protect creators by forcing payments to be made to them if their work is copied or linked to online.
Most of it is not controversial, and the debate is centred around two sections: articles 11 and 13.

Article 13 has attracted the most attention, and been labelled an "upload filter" by critics.
If a user tries to upload copyrighted music, photos, or anything else, it must be checked against a database - and filtered out if it contains copyrighted material.
Effectively, it makes sites like Facebook and Youtube responsible for what its users upload.

The possibility has led to such systems being labelled "censorship machines" by some opponents. MEPs behind the directive say such claims are wrong, and have decried what they see as a misinformation campaign.

The other debated section, article 11, seeks to grant new rights to news outlets and publishers, giving them a slice of revenue from aggregators like Google who link to their content.






Who is for and against?
Many creative industry associations continue to campaign for the directive to be implemented - including Britain's record label group BPI and the Society of Authors.

Supporters say the new rules will protect artists and creators, making it easier for them to earn a living - and that the amendments made since July should assuage concerns.

What happens next?
The July vote was defeated 318-278 after thousands of ordinary people contacted their European representatives following a grassroots campaign.

But under European parliament rules, that meant it would be amended and debated before going for another vote, due on Wednesday.
More than 250 changes to the original text have been proposed.
"This vote is our best chance to prevent EU copyright reform from causing lasting harm to the open internet," MEP Julia Reder said in a blog post criticising many of the proposed changes.
Digital rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation, meanwhile, said the proposal was "so terrible, it can only be called an extinction-level event for the internet as we know it".
French MEP Marc Joulaud told the AFP news agency, which also backs the measure: "The feeling of many in parliament is that on Wednesday we decide the life or death of the law."
"We can still finish on time if the text passes on Wednesday. This is the last slot," he said.

BBC
 

Nicktendo86

Member
Thank God for Brexit, the single greatest thing to happen to this country in decades. The sooner we are out of this madhouse the better.
 
"If a user tries to upload copyrighted music, photos, or anything else, it must be checked against a database - and filtered out if it contains copyrighted material."

Ok so the only thing this will actually affect is photos. Anything illegaly transferred could be instantly subverted by zipping the content and even encoding it.
 

Forsythia

Member
What the fuck. What do the people voting for this gain from it? I get the cooperations like it, but what's the use for regular people?
 

Airola

Member
"If a user tries to upload copyrighted music, photos, or anything else, it must be checked against a database - and filtered out if it contains copyrighted material."

Ok so the only thing this will actually affect is photos. Anything illegaly transferred could be instantly subverted by zipping the content and even encoding it.

If you're looking at this from only the upload-download angle, sure.
But what comes to having music or videos streamed and embedded on websites, forums and all sorts of social media sites, then it affects tons of things.
Posting gifs and webms without a licence would become illegal depending on their content.
 
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Regarding photos - imagine a celebrity making a photo in front of the building, the owner will be able to sue her and probably win.

So for now...USA is a land of the free? :messenger_beaming:
 
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Kenpachii

Member
EU needs to go out of the door as fast as possible.
It starts to dictate way to much and is starting to go out of control in general already for years.
 
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Posting gifs and webms without a licence would become illegal depending on their content.
Will it prohibit people from other countries to post images, gifs in western europe space? Then again as with everything in Europe the countries itself will decide the level of filtering.
 

Kenpachii

Member
Regarding photos - imagine a celebrity making a photo in front of the building, the owner will be able to sue her and probably win.

So for now...USA is a land of the free? :messenger_beaming:

I believe that this is already happening on youtube. if somebody reports you for having 1 minute of your content in his 8 hour long video. All profit goes to them from the entire video.
 

nkarafo

Member
Holy shit that thing actually passed? So what now? Is it official or it needs more steps to be implemented?
 

KonradLaw

Member
Hope it will be changed in later stages, but yeah it sucks.
The content creators need more protection, but this law as it stands is utterly ridiculous. All the common-sense changes proposed were thrown out.
The funny thing is that american big corpos will be the winners here financially long-term. This will kill their competition and without competition they will be able to enforce free licenses on european creators. All Facebook has to do is block european news sites from links with message "sorry, we can't post that link, since we don't have the license" and then offer alternative link from american source. At this point most websites rely so much on facebook and google traffic that it will kill them.
 

KonradLaw

Member
Holy shit that thing actually passed? So what now? Is it official or it needs more steps to be implemented?
No. It's just a project of law and they voted on how the proposed version will look. Now European Parliment will take it to negotieate with Council of the European Union and the European Commission. So no law has been passed.
What might stop this insanity is fact that if this goes into vote it will be shortly before elections to Euro Parliment.
 
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Airola

Member
Will it prohibit people from other countries to post images, gifs in western europe space? Then again as with everything in Europe the countries itself will decide the level of filtering.

I would think it's just based on where the platform is. It the platform is, say, Finnish they probably restrict content like that from everyone. It's not just that you can't post a thing, it's that the platforms can't publish those things.
I have no idea how it would work in a place like Facebook. Maybe they'll look at where you are posting from and then apply their filters.

Yeah, countries can decide on the level of filtering so there's still hope that some if not even most of the countries decide to not go with it. Wouldn't bet on it though.
And of course if they come to senses this might not even become the law at all. But again, I wouldn't bet on it either.


EU has a long list of excellent laws, from free roaming to mandatory support of over USB charges, this law is a clear outliner.

Sure. I enjoy the easiness of sending and receiving mail to and from other EU countries and the easiness of being able to travel to other countries.
Then again it really comes to what shitty laws we are willing to accept for us to have those nicer laws. I know at least in Finland most in the farm industry dislike EU a lot. It has caused a lot of unnecessary trouble to them.

Also I'm not sure if EU has been good to Finland financially in the long run. We had a major depression in the early 90's when the national debt rose from 10 billion (1990) to 60 billion (1995, the year we joined the EU). Slowly it looked things got better and in 2008 people were even saying Finland had gotten them out of the hole and we were boasting in success. The debt had fallen to 54 billion. The GDP was getting better and better. Then things started to go way downhill again. In 2009 the debt was back in 64 billion and now in 2019 it's 106 billion. Honestly though I have no idea how much of that is because of the EU and how much is because of something completely else and how much is because of both of them.

For travelers the EU is fantastic. For some others it isn't.

The internet thing in EU feels like they are giving us a cheaper way (free roaming) to use more restricted content. Like, on the other side of the coin it's not expensive to use the internet anymore when traveling abroad but the other side of the coin shows the internet being more restricted and regulated not only to the travelers but to everyone else who are using it in their homes. One step forwards, two steps backwards.

Have to say though that looking back wow it has been quite a ride to live through the 90's in the "Wild West" era of the internet and get to where we are now. It's amazing how much things have been able to go both right and wrong at the same time :D
 

Maedre

Banned
The EU helped to normalized the laws in the whole region. Every time you eat something that was not produced in your EU country and you are not getting sick. Think about it. As Ilien said before. there are far more very good laws. Thousands. Many thousands of good laws. One bad one and you see 300 Million people moaning.

Especially our brits here who will face so many problems in the next years. Cheering about free memes while it's not clear how enough food will be distributed in the next year.
 

llien

Member
I know at least in Finland most in the farm industry dislike EU a lot.
I can't find any hits with "finland farmers dislike EU", would you mind to provide something to support that claim.

Also I'm not sure if EU has been good to Finland financially in the long run. We had a major depression in the early 90's when the national debt rose from 10 billion (1990) to 60 billion (1995, the year we joined the EU). Slowly it looked things got better and in 2008 people were even saying Finland had gotten them out of the hole and we were boasting in success. The debt had fallen to 54 billion. The GDP was getting better and better. Then things started to go way downhill again. In 2009 the debt was back in 64 billion and now in 2019 it's 106 billion. Honestly though I have no idea how much of that is because of the EU and how much is because of something completely else and how much is because of both of them.
EU is merely one of the factors, not necessarily major one.
Did you adjust for inflation, when comparing 1995 debt to 2019 debt?

For travelers the EU is fantastic. For some others it isn't.
Welp, you don't need to be part of the union, for visa free travel.

The internet thing in EU feels like they are giving us a cheaper way (free roaming) to use more restricted content. Like, on the other side of the coin it's not expensive to use the internet anymore when traveling abroad but the other side of the coin shows the internet being more restricted and regulated not only to the travelers but to everyone else who are using it in their homes. One step forwards, two steps backwards.
At the moment it's UK, where politicians push for major internet regulations. Anyhow, those charges are in no way related.
And it's not only internet that got cheaper, normal phone calls are "like at home", no roaming charges apply.

It can get nasty once you are close to the likes of Switzerland and your phone decides to switch to another provider.
 
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Sakura

Member
Are artists actually struggling to earn a living because of the internet, and will this actually help them significantly?
 

lifa-cobex

Member
EU was having too much fun.

Are artists actually struggling to earn a living because of the internet, and will this actually help them significantly?

Not really.
As Count Dank said. Big businesses can afford crappy algorithms to clamp down on any "owned material". If you're an artist in a big company then you are probably doing OK (as well as an artist can do) so it's a moot point for them.
Little guys can't afford things like that.


 
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Airola

Member
I can't find any hits with "finland farmers dislike EU", would you mind to provide something to support that claim.

It's a mixture of anecdotal information and Finnish news and theses heard, seen and read in the past decade or so.
For anecdotal information it's not long ago when I talked with my significant other's father (who is a retired farmer) who said the EU had made the job harder for them. He'd want Finland to get out of the EU. His son who now owns the farm shares his father's dislike but I don't know if he wants Finland to get out of EU or not. Haven't talked with him about it. Other farmers have said same things, but they are the closest ones to me.

It's the bureaucracy that annoys and stresses them a lot and how producing things like milk has become less and less profitable every year. People with smaller farms have had to sell their farms and pretty much only bigger farms can survive.

Over the years we've seen some Finnish news articles here and there with farmers talking about it. I'm sure none of them have become international news so you would't find any on Google. The farming industry of a small 5,5 million people country of Finland isn't really something that interests foreign news agencies much.
Here's one article, albeit a more light-hearted one:
https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-8248516 (it's only in Finnish)
It's about bureaucracy and how much they have to fill papers to be able to do anything.

Here's a thesis about the effects of the EU for the farming industry: (again, only in Finnish)
https://www.theseus.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/24067/Jantti_Sari.pdf?sequence=1
It shows that the producer price went down and farmers became much more dependant on farming subsidies than before and the people interviewed didn't like the bureaucracy and said they sometimes felt they were bullied with the bureaucracy and regulations.
To be fair though, that thesis actually has the writer changing her mind about the EU from negative to positive in the final notes. She said that while it has been tough for farmers she thinks that as a whole EU has been good (which is kinda odd comment for a thesis that is supposed to be only about the effects on the farming industry and not a study of EU as a whole).

EU is merely one of the factors, not necessarily major one.
Did you adjust for inflation, when comparing 1995 debt to 2019 debt?

Yes, the numbers should be adjusted. In 1995 we still had Finnish Marks and the list of yearly debts had all numbers shown as Euros (even the 1970 numbers that by the way were about 0,7 billion). Plus, I don't understand why that would even matter. In 2008 the debt was 58 billion which was lower than the debt in 1995. And from 2008 we have jumped from that to 106 billion. The economy disaster in Greece and the more recent immigration stuff have been relatively big contributors to that but

Welp, you don't need to be part of the union, for visa free travel.

I have no idea what you mean with that as a comment to the quote.

At the moment it's UK, where politicians push for major internet regulations. Anyhow, those charges are in no way related.
And it's not only internet that got cheaper, normal phone calls are "like at home", no roaming charges apply.

Sure. In or out of EU, idiots stay idiots.
And yes, cheap phone calls are great too. I don't know why that matters though to the point that on one hand we have freedom in things like that but on the other hand are the stupid regulations. As if we should look at those bad regulations through a "but they let us do this and that cheaper" lense.

I understand that enough convenience will make some small inconveniences not matter much, but the question is if there are some inconveniences that are troublesome enough to make the conveniences seem less important. To some the farming inconveniences are enough. To some the overhaul of internet culture is enough. To some something else is enough. We have to hear these voices too or at some point the small voices of different annoyed groups become bigger voices when there are too many of these groups with small voices.
 

Dontero

Banned
France/Germany to Poland: You are illiberal !
France and Germany votes FOR censorship while Poland opposes it one of 3 nations that opposed it.

Old saying:
"Know one not by their words but their actions"

BTW polish MEPs who voted for this are all opposition parties to PIS current gov. Imagine that.
 
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Hayfield

Banned
Another reason why the EU needs to die.... Abslute disgusting.....

Yeah but think of all the middle class students traveling Europe on their gap year, they may have to get a visa and queue (The absolute horror)!!!
 
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llien

Member
I have no idea what you mean with that as a comment to the quote.
I thought you meant border transparency.
If you meant Euro currency, a country can be in EU, but not use Euro, e.g. Czech Republic.

And yes, cheap phone calls are great too. I don't know why that matters though to the point that on one hand we have freedom in things like that but on the other hand are the stupid regulations
But we haven't identified any stupid regulation, bar the one in OP. Farmers might be having different sorts of problems, which EU has actually mitigated. E.g. limits on amount of milk produced per farmer exists for a number of reasons, one of them, not crushing prices. Subsidies are there because European agriculture would struggle without them in global economy, on one hand, on the other, food is a strategic resource and EU didn't want to end up not being able to feed own population without imports.
 
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