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Could we be one step closer to an IE free windows?

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Kon Tiki

Banned
Microsoft is ready to remove media player for E.U.
IDG News Service 9/27/04

Simon Taylor, IDG News Service, Brussels Bureau

Microsoft Corp. will be ready to comply with the European Commission's demands for changes to its Windows operating systems if a European court rejects its request for the measures to be suspended, a spokesman for the company said Monday.

The European Commission ruled in March that Microsoft should offer a version of Windows without Windows Media Player (WMP) software, grant access to documentation for network server software, and pay a fine of €497 million (US$610.4 million) because the company had abused its market dominance.

Microsoft has challenged the Commission's decision in the E.U.'s Court of First Instance, and has asked for the Commission's demands to be suspended pending the outcome of the appeal, which is expected to take between two and five years.

The court will hold hearings on Thursday and Friday this week at which the company, the Commission and more than 10 interested parties will present evidence. The judgment by the court on suspending the measures is expected in around two months' time.

"We will be prepared to comply with the court order whatever it is," said Microsoft's general counsel Brad Smith, speaking at a news conference in Brussels on Monday.

The company had "spent millions" so that it could meet the court's judgment, he added, suggesting that development work has already been done to offer a version of Windows in Europe without the WMP software.

Microsoft has protested in the past that unbundling elements of Windows would be difficult and could even damage its operating system. Smith's remarks represent the first time that Microsoft has appeared willing to make a significant change to Windows in the face of pressure from antitrust regulators.

One legal expert who has followed the case said unbundling WMP would be a victory for consumers and competitors. It would force Microsoft to compete based on the merits of its software, said Thomas Vinje, a partner with the Brussels law firm Clifford Chance LLP.

"For RealNetworks, Apple and other companies ... it would mean that they might have a chance of surviving in this market. Thus, for consumers, such a decision would mean that they might continue in the future to have a choice of media players," said Vinje, who represents Microsoft rivals, including the Computer and Communications Industry Association (CCIA), a lobbying group based in Washington, D.C.

Vinje said he believed the Commission would prevail in its case against the Redmond, Washington, software maker. He did not see the removal of WMP as an onerous task for Microsoft, however. "It's been obvious to any observer that it's easy to comply," he said.

Europe would be the only place where "Windows-lite" -- i.e. Windows without WMP -- would be sold, Microsoft said in a briefing note for reporters. The rest of the world would continue to use the full version of Windows, and it encouraged content developers to continue to encode music and other digital products in its Windows media format.

"Europe would be the main loser as the result of the Commission's decision," it said, characterizing the removal of WMP as a move that would harm users.

Even while making its concession, Microsoft rejected the Commission's main argument that Microsoft is using Windows' ubiquity to help it dominate the media player market. "The number of formats (for digital music) is not shrinking, it's growing dramatically," Smith said.

The average number of digital media formats on the 1,000 most popular Web sites had increased from 2.1 in the fourth quarter of 2001 to 2.8 in the second quarter of 2004, Smith said. He also cited the success of music download services like those of Apple and Sony Corp. as proof that the market was competitive.

"Apple and Sony are providing a single format, but it's not Microsoft's," he argued. Competition in the market has been increasing, although it has not been "rebounding to RealNetworks", he said in a swipe at the company that brought the original complaint against Microsoft to the Commission.

Smith also dismissed the Commission's argument for forcing Microsoft to share documentation on its network server software. "The Commission says Linux would disappear" if Microsoft did not grant access to its documentation, Smith claimed. "But Linux is alive and well and I don't know any person at Linux or any Linux programmers who share the Commission's view."

Smith also said that even if Microsoft wins the final case, it will be prepared to discuss with the Commission how to address its concerns about the state of the market.

"We are ready to restart negotiations with the Commission. We have always said people have issues that need to be addressed through face-to-face negotiations to tease out the technological nuances. We remain committed to that," Smith said.

He warned that if the court upheld the Commission's decision it would "slow innovation" in Europe, raise prices for consumers and privilege some special interests.

With additional reporting by Laura Rohde in London.


God bless the EU.
 
For RealNetworks, Apple and other companies ... it would mean that they might have a chance of surviving in this market. Thus, for consumers, such a decision would mean that they might continue in the future to have a choice of media players

This could be one step closer to Real Media becoming a standard again. That would suck.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
WMP beats the shit out of most of those other Media Players, though.

Winamp, you could argue, but only the older 2 series (the newer Winamps run slowly). I mean, come on...RealPlayer? Who the f*ck really wants RealPlayer? RealPlayer is borderline spyware...

...and honestly, I LIKE the integration of IE into Windows. Especially at this point, where the current IE includes pop-up stopping and such (bringing up to near Firefox levels).

I do not want to return to the days when everything is standalone piece of software...
 

Kon Tiki

Banned
dark10x said:
WMP beats the shit out of most of those other Media Players, though.

Winamp, you could argue, but only the older 2 series (the newer Winamps run slowly). I mean, come on...RealPlayer? Who the f*ck really wants RealPlayer? RealPlayer is borderline spyware...

MPC beats the shit out of everything...even WMP10.

I will agree WMP codecs are better than real, but do we really need all these players? Why no just release codecs?
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Media Player Classic? It's nice for speed, but it doesn't really do everything I need...
 

Kon Tiki

Banned
like?

rip cds in wma format?

Tell you what is cool in the world?

WMP is bloated trash.


As far as IE, it is a matter of choice. I should be able to decide how secure my PC is.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
why are people still unable to maintain a secure PC regardless if IE is on there?

I keep reading the same people saying firefox being faster as well. If your firefox is faster than IE, you probably have more than just security problems to fix.

damn computer nubs.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
DopeyFish said:
why are people still unable to maintain a secure PC regardless if IE is on there?

I keep reading the same people saying firefox being faster as well. If your firefox is faster than IE, you probably have more than just security problems to fix.

damn computer nubs.


1. Firefox does render pages faster than IE that doesn't have anything to do with security.
2. Contrary to popular believe not everyone in the US has broadband, downloading windows updates that run in the multi-megs is not something that everyone on dialup can or chooses to do.
 

Kon Tiki

Banned
Coen said:
Downloading Firefox would pose a problem if IE wasn't installed on my PC already.

why would it?

mozilla has an ftp. I have never used IE to get Firefox, even after all my formats.
 

Coen

Member
Society said:
why would it?

mozilla has an ftp. I have never used IE to get Firefox, even after all my formats.

Well, for one, you have to know Mozilla's FTP. Secondly, you have to have an FTPclient, which you couldn't download.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Society said:
why would it?

mozilla has an ftp. I have never used IE to get Firefox, even after all my formats.

You forget that people with your knowledge are a minority of computer users.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
I think we're getting away from the problem.

IE per se isn't the problem, it's tight integration to the OS is. A standalone IE that gave you the CHOICE to then go get a more powerful browser whether it be an IE Pro(featuring tighter OS integration!), or a Firefox, etc... is a better choice IMO. Or maybe even the option to have an IE Lite as the default with the option to turn on tighter integration with the OS...
 

Kon Tiki

Banned
Coen said:
Well, for one, you have to know Mozilla's FTP. Secondly, you have to have an FTPclient, which you couldn't download.
Ftp is built into Windows.

Start->Run-> 'cmd'
then type 'ftp'
'open ftp.mozilla.org'

use ls to list dir
use cd to change dir
use 'get filename.exe' to d/l the file

Seriously not that hard. Windows has already made pussies out of the lot of you.

As DarienA said, IE itself is not the problem. I do not mind a shortcut to d/l IE on every windows machine. As long is it is not part of the shell.
 

Gantz

Banned
"For RealNetworks, Apple and other companies ... it would mean that they might have a chance of surviving in this market. Thus, for consumers, such a decision would mean that they might continue in the future to have a choice of media players," said Vinje, who represents Microsoft rivals, including the Computer and Communications Industry Association (CCIA), a lobbying group based in Washington, D.C.

People do have a choice. They're just too damn lazy to use it. They're wasting their time in court.
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
Geez, will people get over it already. If people want something different, they're free to go out there and download something else. Nothing within Windows is stopping them. If other applications need Microsoft to start excluding their own, then maybe they weren't that great to begin with, or maybe people just don't care. When most people buy (and I'm probably being naive with that one) a copy of Windows, they expect it to do the basic expected functions out of the box. Those who don't like those apps can use their own. It's really simple.
 

Kon Tiki

Banned
If people want something different, they're free to go out there and download something else.

Security holes are free too :)

I should not have to patch my PC for holes in Outlook Express and IE when I do not use them. There is no good reason why they are part of the shell. ActiveX is shit, the technology itself is a security risk.

All I want is a windows lite, something for 'advanced' users.
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
Society said:
Security holes are free too :)

I should not have to patch my PC for holes in Outlook Express and IE when I do not use them. There is no good reason why they are part of the shell. ActiveX is shit, the technology itself is a security risk.

All I want is a windows lite, something for 'advanced' users.

If you're an advanced user, I'm sure you're already pretty aware of how to work around those security issues. Outlook Express can be uninstalled and there's ways to shutdown any of the insecure/unwanted ports Windows/IE may be using. Certainly I think those security issues need to be ironed out pronto, but I still think the basic OS should ship with IE or some web browser. Personally, I'm using Firefox and don't mind IE still being there when it's necessary.
 
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