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Crossing China - A positive China topic (56k warning)

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vern

Member
Wall of text and photos incoming, tl;dr, I traveled across China and this is what I saw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_IYLBCe5Gg

In light of recent and not so recent threads that always seem to point out negative things about China and Chinese people, I want to make a thread that gives a different perspective on China than what we are accustomed to around here. One of the things that sucks is I personally feel like I'm defending China a lot of the time on GAF, but not because I want to, China has boatloads of problems I would be the first to admit that, but because the majority of GAF has no clue about how China actually is and they believe random bullshit on the internet. People come into threads talking like experts based on what they read, or their one week experience in Beijing and Shanghai, or even Hong Kong.

The reality is that this is a complex place and it's actually quite difficult to understand, especially without extensive studying of the country as a whole and living here for an extended period of time (longer than I've been here even!). I've been here for 4 years, been to almost every province, tons of major cities, and towns, villages, and everything in between. I still know very little about this place. One thing I do know however is that just like every other country I've been to (around 30 I guess), the majority of people are friendly, well-mannered, generally honest, and just trying to get by as best as they can. I really believe that humanity is generally good, and that just a few bad apples spoil things. When you have 1.5 billion people, a few bad apples is actually a lot of bad apples just based on percentages, and then you get threads about how Chinese people are savages, when in reality they are just like you and me, decent human beings. I'm not trying to be some white savior of the Chinese people on GAF, just want to present what I've experienced.

My friend and I recently tried to drive a what most of GAF would recognize as a tuk-tuk across China, we failed in driving the little car, but we still traveled East (Beijing) to West (Xinjiang) across China over the course of nearly two months, taking photos and interviewing people along the way. I discovered a very diverse country both in its physical landscape as well as in its cultures and people. I never felt unsafe at any point, China is a safe and friendly country. I felt welcome in stranger's homes, cars... you name it, people are very welcoming and mostly honest (some want some money after they show you around). I met a few really awesome inspiring people, and a country full of completely average, normal human beings. They weren't savages, they weren't spitting or shitting on the street. They were regular as hell, and to me that is inspiring in its normalcy. Across wide swaths of China, from cities to rural villages, people are all pretty much exactly the same. I'd expect to discover the same in my home country of the USA, my first adopted home in Australia, or pretty much anywhere else across the globe, save for some war-torn or extremely fucked regions.

Here are some photos and descriptions:


This is my partner 香菜 and our car for the first week or so before it decided it didn't wanna run anymore. We bought it second hand for 4500 RMB. Big mistake.
Crossing China by Eric, on Flickr

Around day 5 we stopped in this village in Hebei. The houses were made of dirt 土房 mainly, and mostly abandoned. Most young people have left, like most villages in China. The people there mainly herd goats and sheep. This guy and his family showed us around.
Crossing China by Eric, on Flickr

Kids all over the world are intrigued by cameras. Wherever you go if you have one you'll attract a crowd. We had fun learning their one handed counting method, it's different from what I learned in Shanghai.
Luoyang - Crossing China by Eric, on Flickr

The majority of people work hard and live normal lives. China isn't some weird "other" place, it's as normal as every other place, just different. We talked with a different street cleaner, he makes 1500 RMB (220 USD or so) a month and works 6 days per week, morning til dusk. His streets were clean, as are most of China's streets, despite the ridiculous number of people here. It does take constant cleaning to maintain, not saying everyone is throwing their garbage in the proper place or anything like that.
Xian - Crossing China by Eric, on Flickr

We hiked up to the top of Huashan and camped overnight. The sunrise was ok, nothing spectacular. It's a bit of a hike though, and that plank walk, if you watch that youtube video I linked at the top you'll see a bit of it. Crazy shit.
Huashan - Crossing China by Eric, on Flickr

I met this fortune teller in Shaanxi. He talked to me for 30 minutes for 15 RMB. I learned a lot about my future (perhaps). He said I would meet my future wife in the 7th month, but we were unsure if he meant my calendar or the Chinese one. We will see.
Weinan - Crossing China by Eric, on Flickr

But China isn't all old hocus pocus traditionalism. It's a modern place where people are free to express themselves and their individuality.
Weinan - Crossing China by Eric, on Flickr

But it does have the old, traditional, conservative people. They are probably more open to chatting with you than the young individualistic modern Chinese person. This guy might spit on the ground though and I know how a lot of GAF feels about that... the horror!
Yan'an - Crossing China by Eric, on Flickr

Struggled to decide if I should include this photo, because I envision if this thread has any discussion it'll be about this. But guess what, this is the reality of China and I'm showing you the reality of this place, good, bad and ugly. I'm including this because I want to share the story. I saw the sign for dog meat on the outside of his shop. I was curious so I went in and asked him about it. He was, like most Chinese people, overwhelmingly friendly and welcoming to me. I asked him to show me around, show me the meat, show me dogs that he was raising to butcher, etc. He had no problems showing me and talking to me about it all. He had no way to know my motives, maybe I was trying to expose him on the internet as some bad guy. But he didn't question me, he just took me at face value as a curious person and he took time out of his day to show me his business and talk to me on a human level. I don't necessarily agree with what he's doing (though it makes me a hypocrit since I eat meat), but he is just a normal dude trying to get by as best he can, just like the vast majority of humanity.
Inner Mongolia - Crossing china by Eric, on Flickr

China has also got beautiful, clean, remote, amazing places. We spent a day out here, 2 people on the lake with a guide for about 30 bucks. This was the only other group of people we saw.
Inner Mongolia - Crossing china by Eric, on Flickr

China is also incredibly culturally diverse, especially as you move out west. We went to the Mosque in Xining, Qinghai and this guy enjoyed proselytizing to me. I respectfully disagreed with everything he said, we shook hands, and said goodbye. People are friendly.
Crossing China - Qinghai by Eric, on Flickr


The next group of photos are all related and probably the highlight of the trip for me. We met a group of people on the streets of Zhangye in Gansu Province. They are an ethnic minority called Yugur and there are only about 13,000 of them left (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugur). They invited us to some beers and then later said they'd drive us to their village the next day if we wanted to come. We of course said yes and they were at our hotel bright and early. The village was 3+ hours drive up into the mountains. There was no running water, no phone signal, no internet. Just some sheep, some alcohol, and lots of nature and stars.

Crossing China - Gansu by Eric, on Flickr

Crossing China - Gansu by Eric, on Flickr

Crossing China - Gansu by Eric, on Flickr

Crossing China - Gansu by Eric, on Flickr

We ended up in Xinjiang, which if you look at the pictures you'd probably assume isn't China. And if you ask Xinjiang people they'd probably tell you the same. Anyway, they were once again fantastic people.

Crossing China - Wulumuqi by Eric, on Flickr

Crossing China - Wulumuqi by Eric, on Flickr


If you made it through that, thanks I suppose. I'm open to any questions about the trip or about China in general. We also have a China-GAF thread where we talk about China in usually a much more realistic fashion than the majority of threads that get posted around here. China (the country) has tons of problems, China (the people) are the same as you and me, and ideally this will help remind some people on here not to treat people as "others," but instead recognize everyone on an individual, human level. When you see them acting like "animals," maybe stop to consider more about why they behave that way. Perhaps consider the recent history of the country, the culture, and all the other variables that go into it. It's a lot more complex and takes a little more nuance to understand, but it's easy to kneejerk and judge people.

Hope this doesn't fall under self-promotion and get locked, because that's not my intent. I'm intending to show China from a much more personal, non sensationalist level.
However, if you like my photos you can follow on Instagram @crossingchina or subscribe on youtube above. :p
 

vern

Member
Yeah, I really want to visit China. Seems like a very interesting country

It really is an interesting place. I'd be hard pressed to recommend to a tourist however. I guess depends how comfortable you are in situations that you have no idea what is going on.


Awesome photos OP!

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!


Did you have someone with you to translate?

Yeah, I mean I speak relatively decent Chinese now after almost 4 years here, but my partner, the girl in the first and last pics is Chinese. She also had trouble understanding sometimes though, there are many dialects, languages, and just different accents that make it hard when you get off into some more obscure places.
 

la_briola

Member
Very good
Indeed.

Now show us some nice smog pictures from your place, Bla.
wink.gif
 

Llyranor

Member
I loved my trip to China. Went with a group of friends, but we would have been lost without our Mandarin-speaking friend acting as our 'guide'. I imagine I would have had to go with a tour group otherwise.
 

vern

Member
No photos of us eating poutine together?

That was before my trip started :D

I loved my trip to China. Went with a group of friends, but we would have been lost without our Mandarin-speaking friend acting as our 'guide'. I imagine I would have had to go with a tour group otherwise.

Yeah, like I said to the guy above, I really wouldn't recommend China as a tourist destination, unless you are into throwing yourself into some crazy situations. If you have a guide though it's all good.

Really great photos.

Thank you!

Very good

What are your thoughts? I know you live here too. Have you been around the country much?
 

mieumieu

Member
Thanks for sharing these pics! I realized I still haven't visited a lot of these places myself like Urumqi (although I have colleagues from there).

Everyone should come here if possible, and see for yourselves about the good and bad about here. :) I still love China and proud to be born and raised here, despite all of its problems.

Although I would never want to go to Beijing again after getting my eyes hurt just by exposing them to the air there...

:(
 
That starry night picture is sick. I really need to do this again, since last time I took a trip around China, I just flew from big city to big city with my shitty iPhone 4 camera doing generic touristy things.

When your 3 wheeler broke, did you switch to buses and trains? Going hours on cheap passenger trains is my main motivator not to do something like this.
 

vern

Member
Thanks for sharing these pics! I realized I still haven't visited a lot of these places myself like Urumqi (although I have colleagues from there).

Everyone should come here if possible, and see for yourselves about the good and bad about here. :) I still love China and proud to be born and raised here, despite all of its problems.

Yeah China has both good and bad, just like every other place. It's been very good to me so I have a lot of affection for it. Though it's also been hard from time to time. It's an interesting place. People are overall very good here though IMO.

The only thing that bothers me is when people come for a week or two and then tell everyone random stereotypes that they expected but maybe didn't even experience first hand, "the smog was so bad..." type shit. Drives me up the wall.

That starry night picture is sick. I really need to do this again, since last time I took a trip around China, I just flew from big city to big city with my shitty iPhone 4 camera doing generic touristy things.

When your 3 wheeler broke, did you switch to buses and trains? Going hours on cheap passenger trains is my main motivator not to do something like this.

Thanks man, actually we had been drinking wine and baijiu and beer and I could have taken much better night photos but I was drunk and cold and in a hurry to get back inside with the locals that were hosting us.

After the car broke down we primarily took trains and busses. The trains are good. Just get the hard sleeper and you are golden.
 

Ratrat

Member
I loved my limited time in China and everyone I know who's lived there really loved it. Good and bad, its one of the most interesting places on earth.
 

Mecha

Member
Great topic OP, a lot of the exposure people have with China is from attention grabbing articles. Only seeing China from one angle can end up forming an us versus them attitude among people.
 
Those are amazing pictures. I've been to urban and tourist areas in China, but these pics are something else.

Thanks for sharing.
 

vern

Member
I loved my limited time in China and everyone I know who's lived there really loved it. Good and bad, its one of the most interesting places on earth.

Definitely is.

Great topic OP, a lot of the exposure people have with China is from attention grabbing articles. Only seeing China from one angle can end up forming an us versus them attitude among people.

Yeah and that's what we see on GAF a lot. I doubt this thread will educate people though. It's hard to get attention with positive stories or really just regular real life. Just hope people can understand that Chinese people aren't what the majority of GAF in Chinese threads seems to think.

Those are amazing pictures. I've been to urban and tourist areas in China, but these pics are something else.

Thanks for sharing.

Yeah once again I wouldn't really recommend China as a tourist destination, and definitely if you do come here for tourism I would say for the most part avoid any tourist place within the country. China has perfected the tourist trap.
 

Pedrito

Member
Really nice pictures. I went to China three years ago and I found the people there generally friendly and polite. Like everywhere else in the world basically. Nothing like what you constantly read on the net about "mainlanders". The weirder things I saw (a bunch of seniors almost fighting each other to get on a bus; a man shitting in a stall with the door wide open; etc.) were more amusing than annoying.

I loved my trip to China. Went with a group of friends, but we would have been lost without our Mandarin-speaking friend acting as our 'guide'. I imagine I would have had to go with a tour group otherwise.

Yeah, like I said to the guy above, I really wouldn't recommend China as a tourist destination, unless you are into throwing yourself into some crazy situations. If you have a guide though it's all good.

Me and my friend didn't speak a word of mandarin and were fine. Though we stuck to the popular tourist places (Beijing, Xian, Chengdu, Guilin, Shanghai). For the more complicated stuff, like buying train tickets or communicating with cab drivers, we asked people at our hotels.

Also, getting lost and being unable to communicate well is not all the stressfull in China because it's generaly really safe.
 

vern

Member
Really nice pictures. I went to China three years ago and I found the people there generally friendly and polite. Like everywhere else in the world basically. Nothing like what you constantly read on the net about "mainlanders". The weirder things I saw (a bunch of seniors almost fighting each other to get on a bus; a man shitting in a stall with the door wide open; etc.) were more amusing than annoying.





Me and my friend didn't speak a word of mandarin and were fine. Though we stuck to the popular tourist places (Beijing, Xian, Chengdu, Guilin, Shanghai). For the more complicated stuff, like buying train tickets or communicating with cab drivers, we asked people at our hotels.

Also, getting lost and being unable to communicate well is not all the stressfull in China because it's generaly really safe.

The Internet and gaf too has a weird hate for mainlanders and it wouldn't fly when talking about other people, but for whatever reason it's cool to talk shit about that group of people. It's really undeserved too, because as you say, they are generally pretty nice people.

Yep China is amazingly safe, that's a great thing about being here, lost and confused, no one is gonna come and lead you to an alley and stab you and take your money. People will generally help you get where you need to go or what you need.

You can definitely be fine not speaking Chinese and like you said, sticking to tourist spots, but tourists spots in China tend to suck IMO. It's a lot more fun in China when you get off on your own if possible.
 

Groof

Junior Member
Great write up! Thank you for a more realistic view on China. You already know my thoughts on your photos and video, but they really make me want to visit mainland China very soon.

Again, looking forward to more stuff from you :)
 

vern

Member
Damn I love this.

Do india next :p


Haha India... Heading to Nepal to finish a photography project next week. That's kind of like India. Won't be crossing it though, mainly in Kathmandu. Would love to travel around India.


Great write up! Thank you for a more realistic view on China. You already know my thoughts on your photos and video, but they really make me want to visit mainland China very soon.

Again, looking forward to more stuff from you :)

Thanks again! I'll be around China most of the time so pm me when you come! Same goes for any other gaffer that wants to see proper China. Maybe I can be a tour guide 🤔
 

Cfh123

Member
Excellent photos. You put your Canon 5D to great use.

I love travelogue threads with lots of photos - Neogaf should do them more often.
 
Haha India... Heading to Nepal to finish a photography project next week. That's kind of like India. Won't be crossing it though, mainly in Kathmandu. Would love to travel around India.

Where did u live before China? Do u plan to live there forever?

You should post this on reddit btw. It would hit the front page probably.
 

vern

Member
Excellent photos. You put your Canon 5D to great use.

I love travelogue threads with lots of photos - Neogaf should do them more often.

Thanks! Someone's been in the exif data lol.

You can do a travel thread next!
 

vern

Member
Where did u live before China? Do u plan to live there forever?

You should post this on reddit btw. It would hit the front page probably.

I posted a photo or two on there in r/pics ... Don't think i managed any comments at all. Not really a redditor and not sure which place would best work for me to post this stuff. Linked my video in r/China as well. Any suggestions ?
 
I posted a photo or two on there in r/pics ... Don't think i managed any comments at all. Not really a redditor and not sure which place would best work for me to post this stuff. Linked my video in r/China as well. Any suggestions ?

Post a bunch of pics with the title u made here about a positive china. Ill upvote it if it helps :p
 

vern

Member
I don't know much about Reddit, but it might get popular on r/travel. I've seen similar stuff posted there.

Yeah I'll give it a go tomorrow or the coming days if I can find time. I don't really know much about Reddit either, confusing layout kills me every time I try to use it.
 

norm9

Member
Fantastic photos.

I'd love to visit China but it's so big I wouldn't have time to see even a fraction of the sites and people, so I'd just be dissapointed by that limitation of my vacation days.
 

LQX

Member
Nice pictures. Also, I think the tone on China is most times positive.

Saving that picture of the sky. Looks amazing. Just once in my life I want to see the sky like that.
 

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Nice pictures. Also, I think the tone on China is most times positive.

Saving that picture of the sky. Looks amazing. Just once in my life I want to see the sky like that.
Not sure what tone you've seen here but I've only seen toxic and negative comments and posts here in an echo chamber when it comes to anything China related.
 

ISOM

Member
Not sure what tone you've seen here but I've only seen toxic and negative comments and posts here in an echo chamber when it comes to anything China related.

There are a lot of negative toxic topics on America, it doesn't deserve to save itself from any topic.
 

eot

Banned
Nice photos but I think you're over doing it a little posting your name under each and every one of them. This is gaf, not a museum :p
 

vern

Member
Very nice work. There are always two sides to a story I guess.

A whole lot more than two, I would argue.

There are a lot of negative toxic topics on America, it doesn't deserve to save itself from any topic.

For sure, there is also a lot more nuanced discussion cuz most of gaf is from the USA .

Nice pictures. Also, I think the tone on China is most times positive.

Saving that picture of the sky. Looks amazing. Just once in my life I want to see the sky like that.

I've not seen much positivity on GAF about China, I guess I missed those threads.


Nice photos but I think you're over doing it a little posting your name under each and every one of them. This is gaf, not a museum :p

Lol I just linked from Flickr, that's how it does it. Appreciate the feedback though..
 

Sunster

Member
I've always wanted to go, loved the history since I was a kid and wanna do all the touristy stuff like see the great wall and go to the forbidden city. But, my fiance is Filipino and has beef with China soooo maybe one day *sigh*. Awesome OP.
 

vern

Member
I've always wanted to go, loved the history since I was a kid and wanna do all the touristy stuff like see the great wall and go to the forbidden city. But, my fiance is Filipino and has beef with China soooo maybe one day *sigh*. Awesome OP.


Time to squash the beef. Life's too short to be upset.
 

Althane

Member
I've not seen much positivity on GAF about China, I guess I missed those threads.

I feel like I haven't seen much positivity from GAF in general; but I also feel like that's likely because a lot of topics about China tend to involve the Chinese government, which is often at odds with Western values.

Not taking a side on that one, but just saying that I don't think I've seen a topic about non 'big-issue' China in some time.

Pictures are awesome, by the way. I don't have much interest in visiting China, but gotta admit that you definitely piqued what little bit there was.
 

vern

Member
I feel like I haven't seen much positivity from GAF in general; but I also feel like that's likely because a lot of topics about China tend to involve the Chinese government, which is often at odds with Western values.

Not taking a side on that one, but just saying that I don't think I've seen a topic about non 'big-issue' China in some time.

Pictures are awesome, by the way. I don't have much interest in visiting China, but gotta admit that you definitely piqued what little bit there was.

I tend to see lots of negative topics or offhanded comments about Chinese people or even worse, dreaded "mainlanders." See the Chinese tourist thread for a recent example. People are really good at "othering" Chinese people, but actually they are normal and just like you and me. Wish people would remember that.

I'm glad your interest is piqued a little bit. China is a fascinating and massive place.
 

Hycran

Banned
I went to China with my wife for our Chinese wedding stuff and fell in love with the place. I don't believe in "energy" or anything spiritual, but there is some sort of pulse that runs through every place that is undeniable. If someone gave me a ticket i'd be back in a heartbeat.

As for the negative China sentiment, I think it's more that some of China's actions on the world stage are seen in a different perspective due to their power. The 9-Dash line for example seems like a joke when you look at the huge swath of water it occupies, but Chinese people are fierce believers in it, not the least of which is due to historical use, but also due to the indoctrination they are subject to on all things national. Nothing is simple in China, and some people may boil things down a bit too far on occasion.
 
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