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[xabre]

We had our election today (Australia) and not only has the Howard conservative government (i.e. GW Bush lite) been returned to power, they've also managed to capture half of the seats in the senate - a near majority. Making matters much worse is it seems some fundy Christian party (who gave preferences to the government) will pick up a senate seat themselves giving the government an effective majority and practically making us a dictatorship when the changes come into effect next July. Who knows what fucked up legislation is going to flow through the house of reps and the senate in the next few years, but I sure as hell won't be sticking around to find out.

 

[Scrow]

Making matters much worse is it seems some fundy Christian party (who gave preferences to the government) will pick up a senate seat themselves giving the government an effective majority and practically making us a dictatorship when the changes come into effect next July.

Talking about the Family First party right?

check out Family First's policies (esp. the one on pornography).
http://familyfirst.org.au/policy.php
They're fucking insane. They also have the backing of some dodgy Catholic groups that have being investigated in the past, from what I've heard. Sadly I must finish my double degree here, which will mean not leaving till mid-2006 at the earliest. I'll probably go to Europe... maybe Netherlands or Belgium.

 

[Vormund]

What's really fucked up all our states are Labor governments (last time I checked) and we have a Liberal federal government.

HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT WORK!?

 

[Scrow]

Now it's important more than ever that Bush doesn't win, otherwise Howard will follow where ever Bush leads him. :/

 

[Alcibiades]

well, Al-Qaida managed to scare the pants off the Spanish and they gave into the terrorists, glad to see they didn't try anything more recently in the Western Pacific region, but it's good to know that even after events like Bali, Australia isn't giving in so easily...

 

[nathkenn]

sigh, the world is f'd, I guess the way we fight religious fanatics, is putting religious fanatics that are exactly the same in power

 

[Trevelyon]

I think the Labor leadership quarrel did irrevocable amount of damage for the ALP. Simon Crean was just like an anvil of poor public perception when he was opposition leader, where Latham has just had to play a furious game of catch up in light of a national election, which to his credit he seemed to achieve.

I think Latham gambled big time on forestry policies in Tasmania & of course it cost him dearly. Now with coalition back for a forth term, I'm more worried about the dismantlement of Medicare & the inevitable privatization of Telsta, not to mention Howard's policy on pre-emptive strikes on terror targets within our region.

 

[Scrow]

& the inevitable privatization of Telsta

buy shares in Telstra asap

 

[Cooter]

Democracy just doesn't work

It seemed to work for those who voted for Howard.

Quit being a sore loser.

The fact that your candidate didn't win is not a justification to revert back to dictatorships.

Democracy is the best system known to man.

 

[iapetus]

No it isn't. It's just the most practical. And there are many different ways to run a democracy, as you should know (with your antiquated and badly thought out voting system - not that ours is much better).

 

[Dan]

Yeah, I love when people hate on democracy when it does exactly what it was designed to do. Don't blame democracy for the political ideals and beliefs that the masses hold.

 

[Zaptruder]

Democracy is really a poor system of selecting a government. But it's the best system we have in use in the world today.

That said, this election was such a complete non-event, that well... I wasn't even aware that we had an election until after the movies were finished and the late news broadcasted the landslide results!

To be fair... John Howard, while a conservative and a bush butt crack licker...

isn't nearly as bad or retarded as Bush himself. But he is a sellout for that chimp's favour.

 

[Azih]

That depends, if Australia is a proportioanal representation system then your beef isn't with the system, it's with your fellow Australians. If however Mr.Howard got a majority position while getting less than 50% of the popular vote then yeah, your system sucks.

 

[Drensch]

well, Al-Qaida managed to scare the pants off the Spanish and they gave into the terrorists

That's not true on several levels. First of all the Spanish government lied repeatedly to the people and went against the wishes of the populace-bad politics any way you look at it. Then the train attacks occured. The Spanish government tried to use the attacks to help them politically and claimed the Basques did it. Outright lies. The people decided they had had enough of a lying government who had gotten into a war 90% of the public opposed. Not to mention that the socialists refelected the populace far more anyways. This "giving into the terrorists bs" is pureley a marketing slogan cooked up by the righties.

 

[Cimarron]

Why are you guys complaining? Isn't it illegal not to vote in Aussie?

 

[iapetus]

This "giving into the terrorists bs" is pureley a marketing slogan cooked up by the righties.

Um. Hello? Did you look at who you were quoting?

Why are you guys complaining? Isn't it illegal not to vote in Aussie?

Not entirely a bad idea, as long as you're allowed to abstain.

 

[teepo]

wait... how is this democracy not working. i think i'm missing something.

 

[Zaptruder]

Um. Hello? Did you look at who you were quoting?



Not entirely a bad idea, as long as you're allowed to abstain.

You have to goto the electoral center, but you can simply put in an unmarked ballot paper.

 

[Phoenix]

The funniest thing about all of these 'my goverment sucks and I'm leaving the country' posts is that no one actually leaves the country.

 

[buck naked]

Making matters much worse is it seems some fundy Christian party (who gave preferences to the government) will pick up a senate seat themselves giving the government an effective majority and practically making us a dictatorship when the changes come into effect next July. Who knows what fucked up legislation is going to flow through the house of reps and the senate in the next few years, but I sure as hell won't be sticking around to find out.

You know, I just read through that Family First policy page, and I think they're getting a pretty bad rap. Just because they want to enable a porn filter at an ISP level doesn't mean it has to affect everyone. You could still choose to use it or not.

 

[maharg]

That depends, if Australia is a proportioanal representation system then your beef isn't with the system, it's with your fellow Australians. If however Mr.Howard got a majority position while getting less than 50% of the popular vote then yeah, your system sucks.

Er, it's much much more difficult to get a majority vote of greater than 50% in a proportional system. Especially one with runoff voting. Coallitions and minority governments are the norm in proportional systems that don't limit the entire system to two parties.

 

[Boogie]

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.

-Winston Churchill

 

[Azih]

Er, it's much much more difficult to get a majority vote of greater than 50% in a proportional system. Especially one with runoff voting. Coallitions and minority governments are the norm in proportional systems that don't limit the entire system to two parties.

Yes I know, and I know that Mr.Howard and his alliance achieved more than 50% of the seats in Parliment, my question was, did he get that power while his coalition had less than 50% of the popular vote? (as happens in Canada and the States)

 

[Fresh Prince]

I see it as this:
Good Economy = Nod to emcumbant government

That being said I don't see why most Australian's see that John Howard and Peter Costello should be praised highly for their economic achievements. Our intrests rates are so low because the world's markets went down the shitter not for any domestic policy alone.

I was with a friend that voted Liberal because, 'I don't like change'- now this guy is pretty smart but seriously as soon as I saw the senate seats- I said to him you just voted for a dictatorship.
The Family First party is just an indication that a new more public Christian Right is on it's way.

I blame many things
a) Right wing media seriously 9 and 10, Herald Sun and The Age are so blantantly pro-Coalition
b) Australians generally being ill-informed on the world economy
c) Apprehension toward Latham

This election was sooo short-sighted with the main emphasis(by both but the Coalition) on negativity, economics and sweetners at least Beazley had, My plan for Australia.

What riled me up was Howard's acceptance speech- all that general bullshit, 'Welcome anybody Nation', 'United Nation' etc.
I couldn't believe my ears.

 

[Funky Papa]

well, Al-Qaida managed to scare the pants off the Spanish and they gave into the terrorists

Advice: if you don't what the hell are you talking about then shut up.

The old government was kicked out because they tried to charge the bombings on a local terrorist group, forging false proofs instead of telling the truth and using the public media to hide the real tragedy. The vast majority of spaniards were against the war and when the oposition broke the real news people became really upset with the ruling party. Of course, this opportunity was not missed by the american neocons to make some cheap propaganda.

We have been suffering the horrors of terrorism for decades, we know what it is to lose thousands of lives. Anyone who thinks that people changed their votes because of the attacks is out of his fucking mind. Heck, just check the spanish media, even today people is arguing about the forged evidences that the PP tried to shove us as real.

I was hurted because I voted the PP eight years ago and it was so hard to see how they betrayed us... specially being in Madrid at that time.

Edit: Drensch wrote it first.

 

[fennec fox]

I see whining about your country instead of acting to cause change in it isn't limited to the US.

 

[Ecrofirt]

blah blah blah, my country is more conservative than i'd like them to be. blah blah blah, i'm leaving the country. blah, blah, blah.

 

[Funky Papa]

I see whining about your country instead of acting to cause change in it isn't limited to the US.

That's an universal thing.

 

[KingV]

The funniest thing about all of these 'my goverment sucks and I'm leaving the country' posts is that no one actually leaves the country.

There were many celebrities that said that when Bush won in 2000. The only one I can think of that actually did it was Johnny Depp. I might not agree with his politics, but I have to respect him for following through with that.

 

[Ill Saint]

Only consolation was that the Greens made big ground. The Democrats were annihilated... messed up.

Those Family First crazies came up from outta nowhere. They're nuts. Their homepage may make them sound kinda harmless, but they're Fred Nile territory.

 

[ErasureAcer]

A lot of people would like to move out of the country...but it just isn't possible. One it costs a lot of money to move. And second, to get a job in a foreign country you have to be a citizen or have a visa...which are not easy to obtain...especially citizenship. And for the visa...you really have to line up jobs beforehand...and then there is the whole language barrier for most Americans/Australians.

If Bush is re-elected...I'm gonna join the huge protest on washington...and see what arises from that. If that doesn't work...I will look into moving to canada...although the same problems will be had(except language) in trying to actually live there. It's tough to get an "official" job when you don't have the proper papers...plus you're hated by the country too(just look at Americans hating Mexicans).

What really needs to happen are some more open borders and citizen exchange programs or something...I'm sure there's lots of people in Sweden who'd rather live in the USA...and people in the USA who'd rather live in Sweden. Let's just trade citizenship...damn governments trap you. I didn't ask to be born into this stupid conservative country...I should be able to choose my citizenship.

 

[Ill Saint]

Seriously.
Fuck Patriotism. Internationalism is what people should be striving for.

 

[xabre]

Many people are reducing this discussion to simple conservative vs. progressive and that is hardly the point. I'm not happy that a conservative party remains in government here, and certainly not this conservative government although I can live with it. What is pissing me off is that we supposedly live in a country with a government and a viable opposition, and a senate that is supposed to act as a check and balance against the government shoving through anything they like and this has now been completely neutered by the so-called noble democratic process. Democracy sucks because the engine that drives it (the people) are typically uneducated indifferent morons, too easily swayed by the interests of the media and government manipulation. Making matters worse is that voting is compulsory here lest you cop a fine.

As for family first, check out this enlightened piece.

 

[nathkenn]

Seriously.
Fuck Patriotism. Internationalism is what people should be striving for.

word.

 

[DaMan121]

The thing is, democracy only works for an INFORMED populace. If they are ignorant as shit, then you might as well have a dictatorship. Anyway, dont feel too bad, Labours challenge during the campaign made the Liberal party bring in some big spending policies on education and health care that they wouldnt have done otherwise. Say goodbye to Telstra and MediCare though.

 

[Substance]

Whoa, I can edit my post without anybody ever knowing. This post has gone through three, I repeat three, incarnations!

 

[maharg]

Yes I know, and I know that Mr.Howard and his alliance achieved more than 50% of the seats in Parliment, my question was, did he get that power while his coalition had less than 50% of the popular vote? (as happens in Canada and the States)

Given Australia's system, that depends on what you mean. Do you mean, was his party the first choice of more than 50% of the voters? Probably not. But it must have been ONE of the choices of more than 50% of the voters, because that's the way it works.

 

[Yossarian]

Seriously.
Fuck Patriotism. Internationalism is what people should be striving for.

Go globalization, go!

 

[Ill Saint]

Go globalization, go!

Eh?

 

[ErasureAcer]

I agree that people need to be informed. I think we need a lot of reform in our education system in America. Too much emphasis is placed on English and Math and the sciences. We need to cut into those and replace that time with current events, civics, health, and peaceful conflict resolution...to name a few things.

Democracy could work but the government controls the future...and they don't want the people to be educated...so it will never happen...unless there is a mass overthrow of the current government.

 

[Vormund]

Yes I know, and I know that Mr.Howard and his alliance achieved more than 50% of the seats in Parliment, my question was, did he get that power while his coalition had less than 50% of the popular vote? (as happens in Canada and the States)

That happened last election I believe. The opposition on a national level had more votes, but when it came down to actual seats in parliament, it wasn't enough to form government.

 

[DDayton]

As strange as it may seem to some folks on these boards, the Family First policies seem to be ones which might appeal to a decent chunk of folks in the USA as well... and if about half of the USA can support "conservative" ideals and lawmakers, I find it plausible that a chunk of Australians might as well...

In other words, democracy does work in getting the government to do things that most of the country want to be done... or at least very large chunks of it. It doesn't always, mind you, but it's better than having a self appointed group of "intellectuals" running the place (as we saw happen in Russia so many years ago).

 

[MaddenNFL64]

I think Aus is just a conservative country. They always ban offensive material, or censor it.

And the people seemed so laid back :\.

 

[pilonv1]

I think Aus is just a conservative country. They always ban offensive material, or censor it.

And the people seemed so laid back :\.

The people are, it's the government that refuses to allow an R (18+) rating for videogames.

 

[Fresh Prince]

I think Aus is just a conservative country. They always ban offensive material, or censor it.

And the people seemed so laid back :\.

The (former) Senator Brian Haradine and The Nationals strike again!

I don't know it seems to me there really is divide between the Coalition and Labour (unlike the last election). The Family First base will probably grow pulling the Coalition further right(for preferences etc), while the Greens and Labour will probably have to huddle together to become more relevant.

 

[speedpop]

My plan;

Studying psychology and mandarin at University, will rack up my HECS debt like nothing else then after I gain my degree's move to Singapore with fiance

 

[Optimistic]

You know, I just read through that Family First policy page, and I think they're getting a pretty bad rap. Just because they want to enable a porn filter at an ISP level doesn't mean it has to affect everyone. You could still choose to use it or not.

You're missing the point. They have like 8 pages dedicated to policy on pornography prevention, and only ONE SINGLE FREAKEN PARAGRAPH dedicated to policy on Indigenous Australia.

 

[maharg]

As strange as it may seem to some folks on these boards, the Family First policies seem to be ones which might appeal to a decent chunk of folks in the USA as well... and if about half of the USA can support "conservative" ideals and lawmakers, I find it plausible that a chunk of Australians might as well...

Are you actually suggesting that non-Americans actually think of America as being progressive at this point?

 

[Link648099]

Gore Lawsuit Challenges Australian Election Results
by Scott Ott
(2004-10-09) -- Just hours after the polls closed across Australia, and Prime Minister John Howard headed for his fourth term, former U.S. Vice President Al Gore filed a lawsuit in international court at the Hague alleging "irregularities" in the balloting.

The election was seen by many as a referendum on Australia's participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the subsequent efforts to bring democracy to Iraq. Mr. Howard's opponent, Mark Latham, had promised to withdraw Australian troops from the Coalition.

"Somebody was disenfranchised or coerced down under," said Mr. Gore, now an itinerant professor. "John Howard betrayed his country. He played on their fears. There's no way they could have re-elected him legally. We'll fight this result all the way to the U.N. Security Council if need be."

Democrat presidential contender John Forbes Kerry expressed displeasure at the Australian election outcome.

"This is the wrong election result, in the wrong place at the wrong time," Mr. Kerry said. "Think of the precedent this sets."

http://www.scrappleface.com/

 

[videogamer]

With Prime Minister John Howard and Labor Party challenger Mark Latham locked in a tight race for the top job, victory could well hinge on an unusual, long-standing feature of Australia's electoral system: the preferential ballot.

Rather than voting for individual candidates for Parliament, voters rank those running in their district in order of preference. If no candidate wins a majority of first-place votes, the outcome is determined by the preferential rankings. Members of the Parliament then elect the prime minister.

The system, used in few other places in the world, allows Australians to cast their ballots for minor party candidates without necessarily throwing away their votes.

"I think it's the most powerful vote anywhere in the world," said Kevin Evans, an Australian who serves as electoral advisor to the United Nations Development Program in Indonesia. "It actually means you can vote your conscience, without it helping the party you most dislike."

If the United States had a similar system for presidential voting, minor party candidates such as consumer advocate Ralph Nader could be selected as a first choice — with voters knowing that their second-place votes would then go to the next candidate of their choice, Democratic Party nominee John F. Kerry or Republican President Bush.

"Preferences are more democratic," said Rod Tiffen, a political science professor at the University of Sydney. "You could vote for Ralph Nader and have it not be a wasted vote."

Australia has long been a leader in election innovations. It began using the secret ballot well before other countries; when it was adopted in the United States it was known as the "Australian ballot."

The Australian preference ballot looks pretty neat.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-aussies7oct07,1,5324864.story