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Zertez · Jun 16, 2011

sixghost said:
@oracrest

I hope this doesn't make me sound like a dick, but are regular playthroughs of this game more interesting than a level 1 playthrough? That was the first extended gameplay footage of DS I've seen, and it kinda just seems like the way you fight 90% of the enemies is to get close enough to trigger an attack, run backwards to dodge, then just wail away.

I don't have a PS3 so I haven't played the game, but I was planning to get Dark Souls based on how glowingly most GAFers talk of this game. Those videos are sort of making me reconsider that though.

Lvl 1 characters can not use much equipment due to stat restrictions and he wasnt using magic either in the videos I saw. All that is left is to get up close and personal or use a bow to slowly pluck away. Gear, spells and funner tactics are out of the question most the time with a lvl 1 character. It makes the game much tougher to play and a lot more fun when you have beaten the game a few times, but also it isnt as exciting to watch if you know little about the game. The game is a lot more fun to play than watch as well. There isnt a lot of cuts cenes or constant story, it is tough, punishing and fun game play.

oracrest · Jun 16, 2011

I'll go through and do 1-1 king, and named BP's next, and that should put a wrap on this little project of mine...

sixghost said:
@oracrest

I hope this doesn't make me sound like a dick, but are regular playthroughs of this game more interesting than a level 1 playthrough? That was the first extended gameplay footage of DS I've seen, and it kinda just seems like the way you fight 90% of the enemies is to get close enough to trigger an attack, run backwards to dodge, then just wail away.

I don't have a PS3 so I haven't played the game, but I was planning to get Dark Souls based on how glowingly most GAFers talk of this game. Those videos are sort of making me reconsider that though.

I certainly wouldn't use these videos as a basis for everything that you can do with the game. I wouldn't even recommend watching them unless you have already played through the game already. For your first time seeing the extended game in action, this is a very strange and uncommon set of conditions for the character in game. These were made as a fun watch for those that have already finished it. The game has tons rewarding secrets, and you are spoiling yourself if these are the first time you have seen any of them...

And like has already been said, the main point of a level 1 no-magic playthrough is because of how limiting it is. There are TONS of weapons, spells, items, shields, and armors that I simply can't use because of low stats. i even have to dedicate one ring finger on my character all the time for one that allows me to handle just a little bit more weight for the armor. On top of that, later stages in the game, most enemy's can kill you in a single hit, and your gear is too weak to break through most of THEIR defenses, so i have to go on the defensive almost all the time, wait for an opening, and take advantage of it. The game can be played much more offensively and different if you level up your stats, and unlock better items for yourself.

I think to a certain degree, I am making the game out to look a lot easier than it actually is too. I know the hit ranges of most attacks, and timing of recoveries for enemies, and have spent countless hours learning just when to roll to avoid being hit. Playing it for the first time is much more brutal.

you should still go for it....

Seraphis Cain · Jun 16, 2011

FlyinJ said:
Ah! That's it.

Isn't there something to do with what armor you're wearing makes you run faster as well?

Yep. Make sure your total armor weight doesn't exceed your Equip Weight limit.

Aon · Jun 16, 2011

Wow. Five hours ago I still had 5 stages to go on my first playthrough and now the game is over. Did anyone else find that at a certain point, around soul level 60 the game just became significantly easier despite the difficulty of some of the stages?

indigo-cyclops · Jun 16, 2011

Aon said:
Wow. Five hours ago I still had 5 stages to go on my first playthrough and now the game is over. Did anyone else find that at a certain point, around soul level 60 the game just became significantly easier despite the difficulty of some of the stages?

It most definitely does considering your weaponry and familiarity with the gameplay systems. NG+ will be a nice step up

Ribbon · Jun 16, 2011

Valley of Defilement gave me the most trouble on both of my characters, maybe its just me.

No better time to give it another run with Dark Souls coming out, anybody have tips for a Faith melee character?

oracrest · Jun 16, 2011

Aon said:
Wow. Five hours ago I still had 5 stages to go on my first playthrough and now the game is over. Did anyone else find that at a certain point, around soul level 60 the game just became significantly easier despite the difficulty of some of the stages?

For me, 4-2 was the real bottleneck, and 3-2 as little as well. After those, the levels seemed to fly by. I think it was getting used to the combat system that made it get easier towards the end.

Aon · Jun 16, 2011

4-2 was a huge bottleneck for me. That bit with the Manta rays and the Skeletons on the narrow cliff face? I had no thief's ring, so things ended badly, whether I was speared to death or simply managed to fall off the edge attacking after some errant dodging skeleton.

oracrest · Jun 16, 2011

Aon said:
4-2 was a huge bottleneck for me. That bit with the Manta rays and the Skeletons on the narrow cliff face? I had no thief's ring, so things ended badly, whether I was speared to death or simply managed to fall off the edge attacking after some errant dodging skeleton.

Haha, yeah. I played through the first time completely innocent of anything, so I didn't even know what thief's ring was. I tried using graverobber's ring, because I wasn't sure if those manta rays were technically "black phantoms."

I also was encumbered the whole time, and didn't know there was a faster roll out there.

edit: I just figured out that I won't be able to get to Black Phantom Garl Vinland on this playthrough. I was hoping to get down to -6 tendency, then kill BP Selen and the primeval demon to shoot it up to full white, but you need full black for Selen to show up, so I will be one off. :/ I suppose I should have just planned better to be able to reach everyone.

Sykotik · Jun 16, 2011

oracrest said:
Haha, yeah. I played through the first time completely innocent of anything, so I didn't even know what thief's ring was. I tried using graverobber's ring, because I wasn't sure if those manta rays were technically "black phantoms." I also was encumbered the whole time, and didn't know there was a faster roll out there.

edit: I just figured out that I won't be able to get to Black Phantom Garl Vinland on this playthrough. I was hoping to get down to -6 tendency, then kill BP Selen and the primeval demon to shoot it up to full white, but you need full black for Selen to show up, so I will be one off. :/ I suppose I should have just planned better to be able to reach everyone.

Do you not have enough Ephemeral Eyes to just suicide to -6?

oracrest · Jun 16, 2011

Sykotik said:
Do you not have enough Ephemeral Eyes to just suicide to -6?

Yeah, my issue is that Selen only appears at pure black, -7, so I would have to go all the way down, then if I kill her and the primeval, that only kicks me up 6 steps, not the full 7 to get PWWT. I have no other means to bump white tendency in the level.

Johnas · Jun 17, 2011

Ribbon said:
Valley of Defilement gave me the most trouble on both of my characters, maybe its just me.

No better time to give it another run with Dark Souls coming out, anybody have tips for a Faith melee character?

Blessed Mirdan Hammer (+5) has served me pretty well, I'll admit I'm biased towards the pole-type weapons, I almost exclusively used the Halberd with my Temple Knight on my first playthrough. I've read about people with faith builds using the Adjudicator's Shield, but I don't like the way it looks, I have a Dark Purple Flame Shield (+3, need to get some more Chunks of Cloudstone to upgrade it all the way).

On my NG+ I had all the worlds at pure black at the beginning, even 5-1 was a challenge. That's good though, it prevented me from playing carelessly and really helped me learn a level that previously I just ran through without too much tactful playing.

Last night I blew through Maneater on NG++ on my first attempt. It actually felt easy. Granted, Latria is at PWWT at the moment, which I know makes a big difference, but it was still extremely satisfying, especially juggling both of them at once periodically.

I also randomly acquired the

Ring of Herculean Strength

for the first time last night. Who knows how many times I could have gotten that before but for some reason I never did.

sublimit · Jun 17, 2011

Hey oracrest i just saw the 4-2 videos.That was bad ass man.

aesop · Jun 17, 2011

Question for the folks who have started an NG+... Do the amount of souls required to level a skill reset to where they where when you started the game?

subversus · Jun 17, 2011

I bought a european collector's edition. I will crush this game like a bug with my gamer's might.

thorin · Jun 17, 2011

aesop said:
Question for the folks who have started an NG+... Do the amount of souls required to level a skill reset to where they where when you started the game?

Nope, it doesn't reset. I hope you enjoy spending 25,000 to 100,000+ souls to level up

Edit: The amount of souls that you get from enemies/bosses increases quite a bit in NG+ though.

aesop · Jun 17, 2011

thorin said:
Nope, it doesn't reset. I hope you enjoy spending 25,000 to 100,000+ souls to level up

Edit: The amount of souls that you get from enemies/bosses increases quite a bit in NG+ though.

So not only do I have to work on getting my character tendency away from PBCT, I get to farm an ass load of souls? AWESOME!

I finally got the Blueblood last night and can't use it because I went for pure melee so I need 8 levels in both faith and magic and I'm at 31k per level now. Farming the flying manta rays with the Stormruler is BORING.

That said, I'm absolutely loving this game.

oracrest · Jun 17, 2011

Man, Old King Doran on level 1 is hard! I had to take some time to upgrade my Crescent Falchion more to do more damage to him. I was lucky enough to nab a pure darkmoonstone on the last lizard spawn in 4-3.

Minamu · Jun 17, 2011

oracrest said:
Man, Old King Doran on level 1 is hard! I had to take some time to upgrade my Crescent Falchion more to do more damage to him. I was lucky enough to nab a pure darkmoonstone on the last lizard spawn in 4-3.

Are you fighting him legit or cheating with running away+backstab?

oracrest · Jun 17, 2011

Minamu said:
Are you fighting him legit or cheating with running away+backstab?

I'm going to do him legit. Otherwise the video would be boring as hell, heh.

Zeth · Jun 17, 2011

Just got a PS3 and picked up this game. Finished off the first boss. Anyone suggest a specific guide/walkthrough? Or is the consensus that it's better to experience everything for yourself on your own? I'd really enjoy that I just worry about missing important things. I like the IGN walkthrough for the pictures but the ds wiki page with maps seems nice.

aesop · Jun 17, 2011

Zeth said:
Just got a PS3 and picked up this game. Finished off the first boss. Anyone suggest a specific guide/walkthrough? Or is the consensus that it's better to experience everything for yourself on your own? I'd really enjoy that I just worry about missing important things. I like the IGN walkthrough for the pictures but the ds wiki page with maps seems nice.

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/

The game sucks at explaining itself, so it would be wise to do a little research. Also, if you come across a Broken Sword... KEEP IT!

Edit: Also, don't consume the demon souls. Save them. You'll thank me later.

oracrest · Jun 17, 2011

Zeth said:
Just got a PS3 and picked up this game. Finished off the first boss. Anyone suggest a specific guide/walkthrough? Or is the consensus that it's better to experience everything for yourself on your own? I'd really enjoy that I just worry about missing important things. I like the IGN walkthrough for the pictures but the ds wiki page with maps seems nice.

This. Only use the wiki if your really stuck and can't figure something out, or just ask here.

We know everything

Zeth · Jun 17, 2011

Muahaha Excellent. Appreciate the tips. Yeah the game seems to do next to nothing to explain itself so I've done a bit of research. I'm eating this stuff up from the little I've played so far. I can already feel that I'll be enjoying many many hours of Demon's Souls this summer.

Ribbon · Jun 17, 2011

aesop said:
http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/

The game sucks at explaining itself, so it would be wise to do a little research. Also, if you come across a Broken Sword... KEEP IT!

Edit: Also, don't consume the demon souls. Save them. You'll thank me later.

Wasn't this done on purpose?

aesop · Jun 17, 2011

Ribbon said:
Wasn't this done on purpose?

Was it? I dunno. Maybe I'm just used to not reading game manuals and getting a little more explanation of the mechanics. I'm not looking for someone to hold my hand, but some things could deal with a little disambiguation.

Those things aren't stopping me from enjoying the game. I'm just saying...

Ribbon · Jun 17, 2011

aesop said:
Was it? I dunno. Maybe I'm just used to not reading game manuals and getting a little more explanation of the mechanics. I'm not looking for someone to hold my hand, but some things could deal with a little disambiguation.

Those things aren't stopping me from enjoying the game. I'm just saying...

I understand what you're getting at. I just assumed it was designed like this to add to the difficulty and part of the allure of the game.

filipe · Jun 17, 2011

Am I the only one who sometimes just doesn't "get" this game? I've tried to like it, but I really, really don't know what I'm suppose to be doing, where to go, what the objective is...

oracrest · Jun 17, 2011

aesop said:
Was it? I dunno. Maybe I'm just used to not reading game manuals and getting a little more explanation of the mechanics. I'm not looking for someone to hold my hand, but some things could deal with a little disambiguation.

Those things aren't stopping me from enjoying the game. I'm just saying...

The only things I didn't pick up on playing through the first time is that your roll maneuver is faster if you have less than 50% of your equip burden filled, and I never used the multiplayer items (blue and black eye stone) because you only have 1 in your inventory and I thought they would get used up, when in fact you can use them over and over.

filipe said:
Am I the only one who sometimes just doesn't "get" this game? I've tried to like it, but I really, really don't know what I'm suppose to be doing, where to go, what the objective is...

Most people seem to have a moment, past a couple of levels, where the game seems to click, and you finally get what they are going for, and really get sucked in. I think the slower combat mechanic and being able to die with just a few hits is a curveball for many people used to God of War, or Bayonetta type games. Past the first level, the game opens up, and there is no right order to finish the levels, but there are varying degrees of difficulty in all of them.

aesop · Jun 17, 2011

oracrest said:
The only things I didn't pick up on playing through the first time is that your roll maneuver is faster if you have less than 50% of your equip burden filled, and I never used the multiplayer items (blue and black eye stone) because you only have 1 in your inventory and I thought they would get used up, when in fact you can use them over and over.

Heh. You figured out the character and world tendency mechanics just by playing the game?

I hadn't even heard about this game until I saw the trailer for Dark Souls (like many). Came to GAF and skimmed this OT to find many people gushing about the game, so I picked it up. I basically went in blind. Now, with the backstory out of the way... I thought the white and red phantoms were NPCs. lol

oracrest · Jun 17, 2011

aesop said:
Heh. You figured out the character and world tendency mechanics just by playing the game?

I hadn't even heard about this game until I saw the trailer for Dark Souls (like many). Came to GAF and skimmed this OT to find many people gushing about the game, so I picked it up. I basically went in blind. Now, with the backstory out of the way... I thought the white and red phantoms were NPCs. lol

No, There was plenty I didn't figure out until I had finished it once. It didn't really bother me at all though. It meant on subsequent playthroughs, I could focus on things I missed, and essentially explore new content on a second run. I think it's a pretty ingenious way of letting players go through over and over, and it's never the same.

I did get to some things that are only triggered by tendency, but it was by chance, which was also cool.

I can understand players getting frustrated with not being able to learn and understand everything "in-game," but it's one of the things I enjoy about it really. It reminds me a lot of playing Super Metroid for the first time, with a similar sense of discovery to it.

aesop · Jun 17, 2011

oracrest said:
No, There was plenty I didn't figure out until I had finished it once. It didn't really bother me at all though. It meant on subsequent playthroughs, I could focus on things I missed, and essentially explore new content on a second run. I think it's a pretty ingenious way of letting players go through over and over, and it's never the same.

I did get to some things that are only triggered by tendency, but it was by chance, which was also cool.

I can understand players getting frustrated with not being able to learn and understand everything "in-game," but it's one of the things I enjoy about it really. It reminds me a lot of playing Super Metroid for the first time, with a similar sense of discovery to it.

I hit a roadblock on my first character and was about to give up on it so I went to the interwebs to figure out more. That was my mistake. I read a sentence on the wiki that said something like, "Tendency events aren't necessary to finish the game but it's a good idea to attempt them on the first play through." Ever since I got stuck near the end game on FFVII because I didn't level my character enough/find the right weapons/etc, I've felt the need to min/max to avoid starting from scratch. I don't like playing games like that, but I hate starting over because I didn't know I was supposed to do this one thing.

I didn't realize till later that you could finish Demon's Souls without ever leveling your character but by then it was too late.

warpaint · Jun 17, 2011

ok i just started playing it right now, its fun

subversus · Jun 17, 2011

so I started it. So far it's pretty easy. I've moved to Boletaria palace, let's see how it goes. Had no problems with tutorial. It seems that the game is about learning enemies pattern and their placement.

drhankmccoyphd · Jun 17, 2011

Is there an easy way to kill the man-eaters in 3-2 as a caster?keep getting my ass kicked

Zoe · Jun 18, 2011

mikespit1200 said:
Is there an easy way to kill the man-eaters in 3-2 as a caster?keep getting my ass kicked

Firestorm.

B-Genius · Jun 18, 2011

subversus said:
so I started it. So far it's pretty easy. I've moved to Boletaria palace, let's see how it goes. Had no problems with tutorial. It seems that the game is about learning enemies pattern and their placement.

Just out of interest, did you beat the Vanguard in the tutorial?

You are essentially right about patterns/placement, and seem pretty confident, but come back with your impressions (particularly on the difficulty) after you've at least experienced up to the boss of 1-1

Mxrz · Jun 18, 2011

You can cheese man-eater buy shooting one with a bow before going through the fog gate. Takes a bit of fun out of it though.

GuardianE · Jun 18, 2011

filipe said:
Am I the only one who sometimes just doesn't "get" this game? I've tried to like it, but I really, really don't know what I'm suppose to be doing, where to go, what the objective is...

Your mission isn't spelled out for you. That's part of the charm. There really aren't any mistakes you can make. You tackle things the way you choose to. You shouldn't be worried about failure because you will die. Over and over. Embrace it, learn from it, and conquer your next challenge.

oracrest · Jun 18, 2011

It's kind of bugging me that I can't ever get to BP Vinland on this game with my current WT.

I have an idea, but I'll need someone's help. If someone has a level 1-10 character with 5-1 open, I could get the extra WT bump I need if you invade my game and let me kill you.

Sort of feels like cheating, but I'd rather do that and be able to fight him than miss him altogether. Any takers?

I could help through a level or give you items or whatever you need in return.

one85x · Jun 18, 2011

You can't be invaded with all of your bosses dead. While it sucks from a completionist point of view, the fight with BP Garl isn't all that different from the fight with his body form.

oracrest · Jun 18, 2011

Damn, sucks for me :/

That makes sense, since you can't be trying to finish a level to get help with either.

Maybe Atlus will drop an unexpected tendency event this weekend, heh. That's my only chance

wilflare · Jun 18, 2011

finally got this game.
i'm lost at what to do.

died at the tutorial final boss..

Johnas · Jun 18, 2011

wilflare said:
finally got this game.
i'm lost at what to do.

died at the tutorial final boss..

Just keep playing, you're fine. Enjoy!

oracrest · Jun 18, 2011

subversus · Jun 18, 2011

B-Genius said:
Just out of interest, did you beat the Vanguard in the tutorial?

You are essentially right about patterns/placement, and seem pretty confident, but come back with your impressions (particularly on the difficulty) after you've at least experienced up to the boss of 1-1

No, but I haven't even tried, just rolled around avoiding his hits, looking at how he behaves, how much damage he does. I understood that he's likely the portal to Nexus.

Mr_Appleby · Jun 18, 2011

ha jumped on the EU version last night to do some SL1 invading, lo and behold game is still super-busy! always found someone to invade after a short while, a great mix of beginners and veterans (saw a few old king's armour etc.), a few blue's helping out and so on.

trying to limit myself so was using a mercury rapier+2 and baby's nail, though when they were clearly more advanced i'd get out the dragon+moon iron knuckles. best fight of the night would've been a guy who summoned a blue, while i was waiting for the blue to appear the host attacked me so i fought back, killed him as the blue was coming in and then somehow managed to utterly destroy the blue in the few seconds before i resurrected >

great to see it still so active

Zertez · Jun 18, 2011

Mr_Appleby said:
ha jumped on the EU version last night to do some SL1 invading, lo and behold game is still super-busy! always found someone to invade after a short while, a great mix of beginners and veterans (saw a few old king's armour etc.), a few blue's helping out and so on.

trying to limit myself so was using a mercury rapier+2 and baby's nail, though when they were clearly more advanced i'd get out the dragon+moon iron knuckles. best fight of the night would've been a guy who summoned a blue, while i was waiting for the blue to appear the host attacked me so i fought back, killed him as the blue was coming in and then somehow managed to utterly destroy the blue in the few seconds before i resurrected >

great to see it still so active

Im curious if they plan on bringing down the server when Dark Souls is out for a few weeks, or if they plan on keeping it up for much longer. Last I saw, they said the servers will come down in October. Ran into my first black phantom on my magician last night. I was afk for 3 hours and nothing, but then I went to kill a skeleton in 4-1 and he jumps me at that exact same moment. At first I just thought it was a secret red phantom, but then I saw him try to duck me and look like he was trying to eat grass. I laid him out quick with flame toss.

Mr_Appleby · Jun 18, 2011

Zertez said:
Im curious if they plan on bringing down the server when Dark Souls is out for a few weeks, or if they plan on keeping it up for much longer. Last I saw, they said the servers will come down in October. Ran into my first black phantom on my magician last night. I was afk for 3 hours and nothing, but then I went to kill a skeleton in 4-1 and he jumps me at that exact same moment. At first I just thought it was a secret red phantom, but then I saw him try to duck me and look like he was trying to eat grass. I laid him out quick with flame toss.

well irc they've never said the servers are going down at any point, just that they are "guaranteed" to stay up until a certain time, take that as you will. can't remember myself what time frames all the different regional versions have given.. but seeing that it's quite active at the moment i'd think they'd keep it up at least until player count starts to drop off. invaders + npcs can be nasty i had some guy run away from me to heal last night and got himself stuck between me and a hoplite (the mini-phalanxes)

a couple of others i chased out onto the bridge where they got toasted by the dragon ^_^

Zertez · Jun 18, 2011

It makes sense for them to keep the servers up if they are active, but at the same time, they may want people to move on and play Dark Souls instead. I hope they support both. Im sure I will continue to enjoy playing Demon Souls every few months even after Dark Souls comes out. Although the mechanics of Dark Souls may be improved considerably, I will still enjoy Demon Souls environments and boss fights.

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