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Destiny |OT8| Whine and Cheese
- Thread starter The Librarian
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While I ultimately think it will make a win over Atheon that much more rewarding to finally pull off, the idea that it's a "bug" and wasn't originally the intended design? Well...
This screams out as an attempt to stretch out the end-game, for a game that's thin on content, until the DLC rolls around.
PrivateWHudson
Member
I understand and appreciate what they're trying to do with the random teleport thing, but I feel like the weapon selection and hit to ammo for switching gear makes this much less fun. Why would I want my Arc weapons with Oracle damage equipped when I'm trying to keep a portal clear of Pretorians? Oh, switch to Void and get killed during the switch or make it but have half of the ammo. We'll see.
ive done the raid over a dozen times by now with so many different people and im pretty sure we can all attest that its dam near guaranteed that the people furthest out back get ported. sure it doesn't always happen but i'd say that is the bug not the way he is now. pretty sure most people in here also agree with this.
The team I play with have done both so they know the roles quite well.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
It seems pretty clear to me they're not fixing shit, instead they're retuning the encounter.
But that's the same bungie that claimed they removed yellows from moon's epic missions because of difficulty when the truth was that they were fixing way too lucrative glimmer farms.
I'd be happy if Deej stopped lying to us in the face.
TalentBurke
Member
What happened to the raid thread? Anybody looking to do the raid on hard add me. Ps4 Kean Burke, level 30 Titan
If you are too efficient then it's a bug/exploit.While I ultimately think it will make a win over Atheon that much more rewarding to finally pull off, the idea that it's a "bug" and wasn't originally the intended design? Well...
This screams out as an attempt to stretch out the end-game, for a game that's thin on content, until the DLC rolls around.
After playing Destiny I never want to play a RPG/MMO from Bungie again.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
GuitarAtomik
Member
Basically this. But I don't have access to the source code so maybe the way it's written, sending the three farthest back is an exploit. I can't imagine no one figured that out during playtesting though. It happens so consistently that it is an accepted (and large) part of the strategy to that battle. Whatevs. I'm curious what Hawkian thinks about it....
SlenderBeans
Member
I kind of like this randomness. Makes beating the encounter more worth it, everyone will need to be prepared, AND now I don't have to choose which role I want to do.
I like this idea!
Level 30 Titan
Maxed out Vision of Confluence
Maxed out Athean's Epilogue
Near maxed out Praedyth's Revenge
Near maxed out Gjallahorn (very useful to one shot oracles)
Is there a warlock here, on xbox one, who knows how to push Atheon off on hard mode and has 5 or 10 minutes to spare?
Got a couple friends who need to do it, but i'm not a warlock. We want to do it before times vengeance, in the first 30 seconds. Just message Korosenai on xbox one.
Got a couple friends who need to do it, but i'm not a warlock. We want to do it before times vengeance, in the first 30 seconds. Just message Korosenai on xbox one.
While I ultimately think it will make a win over Atheon that much more rewarding to finally pull off, the idea that it's a "bug" and wasn't originally the intended design? Well...
This screams out as an attempt to stretch out the end-game, for a game that's thin on content, until the DLC rolls around.
While organizing a team of six people, and then forming teams with specific duties and generally staying uplifting in the face of random bullshit is fun. This is not how we at Bungie envisioned the game to be played.
Blue Ninja
Member
Thing is, you can't prepare for it. You can have your gear tooled up to deal extra damage to oracles, and before this hotfix, you're able to choose to go into the timestream and shoot oracles. Now, it's random, so you might get stuck outside keeping open the portals, thus completely disregarding the point of even having raid-specific gear in the first place.
It's ridiculous.
Here's I would fix all cheese in the raid.
I'd make an actual hard mode without the bullshit no-respawn thing. That's lame and is simply frustrating because knowing when it's safe to revive someone is a viable technique to learn and to master.
The oracles would come in different colors. Upon the first wave of oracles, whoever destroys an oracle, they can only destroy an oracle of that same color from that point on. The player would see this as a buff/debuff on their screen (Azure Resonance/Gold Resonance/Scarlet Resonance/Emerald Resonance/etc). The colors would appear on random oracles, so folks would have to call out where a color is and have the assigned person destroy it ASAP. Killing the wrong oracle would mark everyone.
The templar fight would implement this same mechanic with the same rules. Except now if at least two Detain bubbles touch, the people in said bubbles die.
For the Gatekeeper part, only Praetorians would spawn in replacement of the Goblins and Hobgoblins when protecting the portal circles? Why? Because fuck you that's why. This is heroic so you better damn well be a hero.
For Atheon, have him randomly pick three dudes to go back/forward in time. The detain bubble bullshit would remain the same as above. Also, Supplicants would spawn in waves randomly from where all enemies spawn back when you were fighting the Gatekeepers. I'd also reduce the Time's Vengeance buff to 15-20 seconds. Make Atheon's enrage timer 4 minutes and 30 seconds. When he enrages, Supplicants begin swarming en masse like they already do, and to be a real bastard, I'd have Supplicants spawn in the portals.
This is how you git gud
I'd make an actual hard mode without the bullshit no-respawn thing. That's lame and is simply frustrating because knowing when it's safe to revive someone is a viable technique to learn and to master.
The oracles would come in different colors. Upon the first wave of oracles, whoever destroys an oracle, they can only destroy an oracle of that same color from that point on. The player would see this as a buff/debuff on their screen (Azure Resonance/Gold Resonance/Scarlet Resonance/Emerald Resonance/etc). The colors would appear on random oracles, so folks would have to call out where a color is and have the assigned person destroy it ASAP. Killing the wrong oracle would mark everyone.
The templar fight would implement this same mechanic with the same rules. Except now if at least two Detain bubbles touch, the people in said bubbles die.
For the Gatekeeper part, only Praetorians would spawn in replacement of the Goblins and Hobgoblins when protecting the portal circles? Why? Because fuck you that's why. This is heroic so you better damn well be a hero.
For Atheon, have him randomly pick three dudes to go back/forward in time. The detain bubble bullshit would remain the same as above. Also, Supplicants would spawn in waves randomly from where all enemies spawn back when you were fighting the Gatekeepers. I'd also reduce the Time's Vengeance buff to 15-20 seconds. Make Atheon's enrage timer 4 minutes and 30 seconds. When he enrages, Supplicants begin swarming en masse like they already do, and to be a real bastard, I'd have Supplicants spawn in the portals.
This is how you git gud
I can't bring myself to create a second titan and drag it to raid level, I already don't give my awesome warlock enough attention (and my poor hunter is still level 2
).I don't mind it taking time to drop, but it's irritating as hell that something I've already got isn't removed from the pool of possible loot I could get, and I've now had to dismantle four pairs of greaves whilst getting no other raid armour.
My free time is really starting to dwindle too. I've got time for a raid, the weekly heroic and nightfall each week for my two characters, and really that's it now (kinda good I guess, the strikes are more interesting to play when you can't play them often). I'm not even concerned about getting my warlock to 30 as no doubt it'll take til Christmas.
Definity
Member
I would say they are listening to at least some of the feedback. Knowing that a buff and overall attack increase is coming for the mythoclast weapon in PVE is a start. They still have plenty of work to do but they gotta start somewhere.
Oops cant believe I forgot, maxed ghallarhorn, which 1 shots minaturs as well also have atheans epillogue, and pradethys revenge.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
"Our PVE nerf was stronger than we intended and we are going to fix Mythoclast in PVE".
Thanks again Bungie. I'm glad they listen. People can hate them and their game all they want, they're still getting shit done to improve the game and that's all I could ask for now.
Thanks again Bungie. I'm glad they listen. People can hate them and their game all they want, they're still getting shit done to improve the game and that's all I could ask for now.
All this plus Praetorians during Athean's fight. It's heroic for a reason!
Calm down there Satan.
Keep talking that caca, guardians. We wouldn't have it any other way.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Yeah, fixing one gun and turning the raid into a completely unpredictable nightmare where your raid gear could be potentially useless isn't what I called getting shit done.
Blue Ninja
Member
Sure, but their current design philosphy seems to say "one step forward, two steps back".
BananasWithGuns
Member
I wonder how many times Mythoclast is going to get rebalanced before Bad Juju actually sees the light of day.
I feel like this weekly update is sort of indicative that, while Bungie is listening in some regards, they are really trying to fix some things too quickly as opposed to thinking them out. This business with the Mythoclast is a good example.
Super disappointed about the changes to Atheon in terms of who he teleports. It made sense to have specific roles within the group and have people learn them and be efficient at them. This fits with standard raid designs in MMOs. Sure you may get random elements (a boss poisons a random 10 people or something) but the whole raid isn't required to learn every role.
The random targeting of players would have been a pretty solid hard mode mechanic and would make sense to try and up the difficulty on that content. Hard modes having additional mechanics is again, not an alien thing in raid content.
Meanwhile they felt like addressing this bug before ones like taking damage when under the relic shield or the fucking portal not working right.
I'm sure I'll keep doing the raid, but I'm starting to wonder if staying at 29 is the way to go. At least at 29 I can pick what kind of stats I want and bonuses that impact specific weapons I like to use.
I'm starting to think that perhaps 30 should be attainable with gear outside the raid. To offset that give the raid gear some buffs to the amount of Int/Str/Dic it has or allow costumization in look or bonuses.
Edit: Also, making additional variables in the Atheon fight random probably doesn't bode well for matchmaking on that content. There are plenty of resources to organize an experienced group, but I'd bet money most the people playing daily don't use said resources.
Super disappointed about the changes to Atheon in terms of who he teleports. It made sense to have specific roles within the group and have people learn them and be efficient at them. This fits with standard raid designs in MMOs. Sure you may get random elements (a boss poisons a random 10 people or something) but the whole raid isn't required to learn every role.
The random targeting of players would have been a pretty solid hard mode mechanic and would make sense to try and up the difficulty on that content. Hard modes having additional mechanics is again, not an alien thing in raid content.
Meanwhile they felt like addressing this bug before ones like taking damage when under the relic shield or the fucking portal not working right.
I'm sure I'll keep doing the raid, but I'm starting to wonder if staying at 29 is the way to go. At least at 29 I can pick what kind of stats I want and bonuses that impact specific weapons I like to use.
I'm starting to think that perhaps 30 should be attainable with gear outside the raid. To offset that give the raid gear some buffs to the amount of Int/Str/Dic it has or allow costumization in look or bonuses.
Edit: Also, making additional variables in the Atheon fight random probably doesn't bode well for matchmaking on that content. There are plenty of resources to organize an experienced group, but I'd bet money most the people playing daily don't use said resources.
Man, fuck that update, seriously. Oh great, give me some more RNG, I really want the last boss to be a clusterfuck. I'm 100% sure it's gonna be buggy as hell with this "fix". It's already buggy enough as it is, like last night when only 2 people were ported. They could at least make the Vex Mythoclast a guaranteed drop if they want to say it's a reward for completing the hardest content when people who've run it 12 times haven't gotten jack shit. Samurai Warriors 4 on Tuesday and Lords of the Fallen the week after should tide me over until the next game I want to play comes along, by then I shouldn't care about Destiny anymore and the annoying ass team behind it.
Part of the fun of the raid is being in teams! There's no way in hell that's a "bug" Bungie. That's a goddamn feature of the fight and you know it. Just because your Raid isn't as tough as you anticipated, you're messing up how you designed the gear from the raid?
How about you patch the bugs in the raid? Like the portals not functioning properly and dumping me into an empty game world, or the portals just not working at all? How about we fix that shit before changing the nature of the encounter?
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
How about you patch the bugs in the raid? Like the portals not functioning properly and dumping me into an empty game world, or the portals just not working at all? How about we fix that shit before changing the nature of the encounter?
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
EL CUCO
Member
Good thing I have VoC
My alt isn't so lucky. Ran both raids: Ass for days
Oh snap I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.
bobbyrawlins
Banned
So fun topping the leaderboard in Crucible with my level 9 Warlock and green weapons.
Update to this. We found one warlock, and now we have one spot open. Any other warlocks want to try?
I really think Bungie needs to stop trying to make people play the game a certain way. Replacing a strategy with RNG is a huge step backwards IMO. Being able to have an inside team and outside team made the group feel more organized, and I don't see why having Atheon choose random people to send out would be any better. But, this is from someone who hates pure RNG in most games, so there you go.
I wonder if they plan on doing weekly hot fixes for the next ten years, because people will always find ways to exploit stuff. They're spending more time shepherding us down their path for the game rather than allowing people to explore and play the game their way.
I could understand if the time streams on atheon was a bug (highly doubtful), but to throw a spanner that big in the works, 4 weeks after people have learnt the fight is ridiculous. They should have looked at it and gone "oh that sucks, we should learn from this and adapt our testing next time". We are already over halfway through this raid cycle, at this point they need to leave VoG alone, focus their attention on real bugs and polish the fuck out of the Crota raid.
The mythoclast fiasco shows they really are just ham fisting their way through these hot fixes. To release a hot fix, destroy a weapon and then have to partially revert it (in the space of a week!) shows that nobody testing the hot fix at all. I'd love to get a job on their QA team, because it sounds like you get to sit around with a bucket on your head all day and fingerpaint.
I could understand if the time streams on atheon was a bug (highly doubtful), but to throw a spanner that big in the works, 4 weeks after people have learnt the fight is ridiculous. They should have looked at it and gone "oh that sucks, we should learn from this and adapt our testing next time". We are already over halfway through this raid cycle, at this point they need to leave VoG alone, focus their attention on real bugs and polish the fuck out of the Crota raid.
The mythoclast fiasco shows they really are just ham fisting their way through these hot fixes. To release a hot fix, destroy a weapon and then have to partially revert it (in the space of a week!) shows that nobody testing the hot fix at all. I'd love to get a job on their QA team, because it sounds like you get to sit around with a bucket on your head all day and fingerpaint.
Let me tell you about this game called The Old Republic and this operation/raid called Dread Palace Nightmare Mode...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe on tuesday they patched this strategy, so Atheon can no longer be pushed off the edge. He will walk up the the edge, but won't fall off.
Guess I'm only missing gjallarhorn and mythoclast to have the best individual items per slot. Thats not to say i couldn't get higher numerical rolls on some items or that i already have everything i want, but thats closing in, thankfully. Fuck upgrading another exotic weapon
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
If anyone has a Checkpoint and is willing to bring me into a Hard Atheon cheese and wine dinner I would seriously appreciate it. I highly doubt my group is going to be leveled up enough/skilled enough to complete a hard mode raid (especially after this next weeks changes go live) and i'd like at least one more chance at raid gear from Atheon before I call it a wash.
I'll be on later in the evening until Sunday/monday at which time I could do it whenever. PSN=silkysm00th ... lemme know.
I'll be on later in the evening until Sunday/monday at which time I could do it whenever. PSN=silkysm00th ... lemme know.
I'm all for making the raid even tougher but holy shit man... That sounds a little too rough ha
Deadstarone
Member
Nevermind, I'm dumb. A lot more people will have to learn the relic. :/
Also, pretty sure I'm going to end up with a lot of bystander effect related wipes. "I thought YOU were going to pick up the relic"!
Also, pretty sure I'm going to end up with a lot of bystander effect related wipes. "I thought YOU were going to pick up the relic"!
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