Support NeoGAF

[ZangBa]

Here's I would fix all cheese in the raid.

I'd make an actual hard mode without the bullshit no-respawn thing. That's lame and is simply frustrating because knowing when it's safe to revive someone is a viable technique to learn and to master.

The oracles would come in different colors. Upon the first wave of oracles, whoever destroys an oracle, they can only destroy an oracle of that same color from that point on. The player would see this as a buff/debuff on their screen (Azure Resonance/Gold Resonance/Scarlet Resonance/Emerald Resonance/etc). The colors would appear on random oracles, so folks would have to call out where a color is and have the assigned person destroy it ASAP. Killing the wrong oracle would mark everyone.

The templar fight would implement this same mechanic with the same rules. Except now if at least two Detain bubbles touch, the people in said bubbles die.

For the Gatekeeper part, only Praetorians would spawn in replacement of the Goblins and Hobgoblins when protecting the portal circles? Why? Because fuck you that's why. This is heroic so you better damn well be a hero.

For Atheon, have him randomly pick three dudes to go back/forward in time. The detain bubble bullshit would remain the same as above. Also, Supplicants would spawn in waves randomly from where all enemies spawn back when you were fighting the Gatekeepers. I'd also reduce the Time's Vengeance buff to 15-20 seconds. Make Atheon's enrage timer 4 minutes and 30 seconds. When he enrages, Supplicants begin swarming en masse like they already do, and to be a real bastard, I'd have Supplicants spawn in the portals.

This is how you git gud

I don't know if I'd agree to everything specifically, but I do wish hard mode actually had new mechanics without the difficulty boiling down to unlucky deaths where sunsingers easy-mode self-revive looks like some overpowered god ability when in reality it's just a crutch for people being bad.

Oh snap I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.

No problem, I love Warriors games. C:

 

[darthbob]

Let me tell you about this game called The Old Republic and this operation/raid called Dread Palace Nightmare Mode...

Fuck.

 

[Ken]

Part of that is making sure that each player in your group can perform every job as required.

Are they going to make Relic duty in Templar fight random too?

 

[Sleepy Buddha]

I finally got the chance to run the whole Raid! The group I did it with are awesome fun! Made the whole thing really enjoyable!

The only downside? I got absolutely nothing but ass energies and a few shards from every boss and chest. Oh, and Chatterwhite, which I already had. Fuck RNG.

 

[Afrocious]

I'm all for making the raid even tougher but holy shit man... That sounds a little too rough ha

Nah. On paper, yeah, but in practice, if you have folks who are good at killing Praetorians by themselves, it wouldn't be impossible.

All this said, I think the 3rd subclass for every guardian should be pure support in some form. I also think we need items/abilities that boost ammo drops.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I don't fucking get it at all what is Bungie doing what's the point of having it just random that takes even less skill then working with the team to move back and move forward to make sure you don't get transported to the timestream

Sorry Siri dictated this

 

[Strider]

Still waiting for my level 30 strike playlist though...

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

I'm having very mixed feelings about that update. I don't know who I am anymore.

 

[Raxus]

Let me tell you about this game called The Old Republic and this operation/raid called Dread Palace Nightmare Mode...

Old school World of Warcraft user here. Mad respect. These raids are cakewalks compared to the encounters for other MMO's. The only thing that makes them difficult is the amount of bugs in the encounters.

Hard mode raid will be more or less impossible unless you hit 30.

Bungie really should implement something to help people get to 30 instead of running their heads into a wall for several weeks straight.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I'm done with the PVP in this game. The hacks are out on the PS4. Saw a guy just now in Control had his Golden Gun in the first 15 seconds of the match. He dies and a minute later he's killing my teammates with yet another Golden Gun.

Fuck that noise.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

I like how their talking point is that the end raid boss fight should show how everyone has learned and has grown to know all espects of this encounter blah blah blah .. completely ignoring the fact that in EVERY GROUP EVER for something like this there is almost always alpha/leader/strong players that compliment somewhat more methodical and less adaptable/trigger perfect FPS players...

"Everyone on your team should be a Quarterback, Runningback, Tight End, Offensive and Defensive lineman and of course Punter. Otherwise your not really ready for the superbowl"...

sit and spin you bastards...

 

[darthbob]

I'm done with the PVP in this game. The hacks are out on the PS4. Saw a guy just now in Control had his Golden Gun in the first 15 seconds of the match. He dies and a minute later he's killing my teammates with yet another Golden Gun.

Fuck that noise.

Be sure to at least report them.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I'm done with the PVP in this game. The hacks are out on the PS4. Saw a guy just now in Control had his Golden Gun in the first 15 seconds of the match. He dies and a minute later he's killing my teammates with yet another Golden Gun.

Fuck that noise.

How is this even possible?

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

I fully agree with everything in the update (what in the actual fuck) except for this part

The encounter goal for Atheon is to act as a climax and the culmination of learning for a given Raid group. Part of that is making sure that each player in your group can perform every job as required. A change will take effect next week which fixes a bug with Atheon's target selection. When using its Timestream ability, Atheon will select 3 players at random, instead of choosing the three players furthest from it.

I don't understand. They obviously want to make it more difficult. Fine. But why does that mean removing strategies developed by the player base as a more efficient way to the end?

 

[Ken]

I'm having very mixed feelings about that update. I don't know who I am anymore.

you're just a random gear who excels at nothing and is expected to do everything

 

[Gr1mLock]

Randomizing atheon's teleports is straight up amateur hour. How long is it going to take someone to figure out how to hold the relic? At least with a home and an away team there was always the 'oh shit im down someone else got teleported' panic. In a week everyone will be captain america stars and striping left and right. Im honestly starting to really enjoy watching Bungie's bullshit blow up in their faces.

 

[Strider]

I'm done with the PVP in this game. The hacks are out on the PS4. Saw a guy just now in Control had his Golden Gun in the first 15 seconds of the match. He dies and a minute later he's killing my teammates with yet another Golden Gun.

I have a friend that pretty much does this because he's just that good. I'm not even kidding... It's like non stop supers all game.

Obviously not 15 seconds into the match.. but it is indeed insane

 

[Maledict]

I finally got the chance to run the whole Raid! The group I did it with are awesome fun! Made the whole thing really enjoyable!

The only downside? I got absolutely nothing but ass energies and a few shards from every boss and chest. Oh, and Chatterwhite, which I already had. Fuck RNG.

It was a good run - am sure we can get it down to 90 minutes at this rate. Loot was *dreadful* though - again no idea why Bungie haven't copied what every other online game as been doing for the past 5 years.

The change the the Atheon fight is incredibly dumb however. I'm really not sure what the point of it is, other than to make the fight randomly hard and to remove the strategy / planning aspect of it. It never struck me as a bug because exactly the same mechanic has been used in other games. They really should think again on this change.

(Especially as the promised 'fixes' on boss hit points to make them slightly less bullet sponges is still missing...)

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Be sure to at least report them.

I did. The shit is so obvious. We took a control point at the beginning of the match and he comes right at us with Golden Gun.

Unbelievable.

 

[milkham]

Randomizing atheon's teleports is straight up amateur hour. How long is it going to take someone to figure out how to hold the relic? At least with a home and an away team there was always the 'oh shit im down someone else got teleported' panic. In a week everyone will be captain america stars and striping left and right. Im honestly starting to really enjoy watching Bungie's bullshit blow up in their faces.

I enjoyed that fighting game reference.

I also think this is bullshit and invalidates their own raid gear for the most part

 

[Orthogonal]

Well I feel stupid. I got to the easiest part of an exotic bounty, purchase 50 special ammo synthesis. Easy, I got like 13K glimmer. I wasn't paying attention and accidentally had the cursor over heavy ammo and started mashing X. Lol, Fuck me, now I have to go farm some glimmer.

Please tell me someone else has done something like this.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

That's gotta be one of the worst, most stupid changes to a raid that i have ever seen in the history of raids.

What the fuck is the point in having specific buffs on raid gear?

Two mins guys i need to go to the menus and change the damage on my weapon/armour, oh fuck what?! I'm dead now?! GG.

Raids should not be down to RNG. It's a cheap way to try and prolong the life of the raid which had Bungie bragging about how it was such difficult content (LOL the raid doesn't have shit on WOW HM's.)

How about Bungie fixes all the bugs with the game, sort out their RNG bullshit, and get their shit together.

Bungie, get gid son or you can shove your game. What a joke of a developer they are becoming.

Well I feel stupid. I got to the easiest part of an exotic bounty, purchase 50 special ammo synthesis. Easy, I got like 13K glimmer. I wasn't paying attention and accidentally had the cursor over heavy ammo and started mashing X. Lol, Fuck me, now I have to go farm some glimmer.

Please tell me someone else has done something like this.

Your like the 5th person i've seen do this ITT.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I have a friend that pretty much does this because he's just that good. I'm not even kidding... It's like non stop supers all game.

Match starts, we took a control point. He comes right at us with Golden Gun. Not possible being legit.

 

[Heel]

I'm trying to envision how a team will communicate what the fuck is going on via one mic channel with random Atheon teleports.

The mic is already queued up nearly constantly as the encounter is currently constructed, with people already knowing their role and relaying information between teams.

It's going to be complete fuckery.

 

[RageWaffles]

Anyone know if the rare sparrows sold by the Vanguard/Crucible reps are ever available in different colors? I've been sitting on an Emerald Coil drive, but I don't really like how any of the rare sparrows look.

 

[EL CUCO]

Initial thoughts after reading update: I've never been so addicted to a game that was this much of a mess.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Good thing I have VoC

Don't worry, Bungie will soon find out the VoC is too effective in PVP and will be balanced accordingly. You can't have too much of something in this game because Bungie doesn't like that.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

I'm trying to envision how a team will communicate what the fuck is going on via one mic channel with random Atheon teleports.

The mic is already queued up nearly constantly as the encounter is currently constructed, with people already knowing their role and relaying information between teams.

It's going to be complete fuckery.

holy shit I didn't even think about this

 

[Raxus]

Don't worry, Bungie will soon find out the VoC is too effective in PVP and will be balanced accordingly. You can't have too much of something in this game because Bungie doesn't like that.

I wonder how long until they just balance things to where the level 1 white guns will be just as good as an exotic.

 

[WarWolf]

At least Bungie reads this thread and will see that almost no one likes the idea of Atheon picking 3 at random. Maybe they'll reconsider that "fix."

 

[Sleepy Buddha]

It was a good run - am sure we can get it down to 90 minutes at this rate. Loot was *dreadful* though - again no idea why Bungie haven't copied what every other online game as been doing for the past 5 years.

The change the the Atheon fight is incredibly dumb however. I'm really not sure what the point of it is, other than to make the fight randomly hard and to remove the strategy / planning aspect of it. It never struck me as a bug because exactly the same mechanic has been used in other games. They really should think again on this change.

(Especially as the promised 'fixes' on boss hit points to make them slightly less bullet sponges is still missing...)

The strangest thing is that the loot was awful all around. I wouldn't be so bothered if people had gotten something for it, but we all received almost nothing but ass mats.

And the Atheon "fix" is going to really make that fight a toss up, I agree. Any playing to the strenghts of people is going out the window.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I don't fucking get it at all what is Bungie doing what's the point of having it just random that takes even less skill then working with the team to move back and move forward to make sure you don't get transported to the timestream

Sorry Siri dictated this

This is my thought on it. Even if it's an exploit, it's not like it's a cheese exploit. It's not everyone safely sitting behind a platform no one was supposed to be on. It still requires strategy, role assignment, communication, consistent execution, and an awareness of timed elements. If that's not how you intended the encounter to be played, I get it. But it's not so much of an encounter breaker that it needs to be changed. Just let it go, and keep that in mind when you design content in the future. Throw it in to hard mode if you're so hell bent on it being experienced that way. No one will complain. I mean, what are they going to do next? Make it so Supplicants can fly higher and blow you up on pillars?

Are they going to make Relic duty in Templar fight random too?

I mean at this point, why not? It would be consistent with their vision of how it's supposed to be played.

 

[Daemul]

So many(most?) people suck with the relic and/or have no idea what to do when teleported. The Atheon fight is going to be glorious, many tears will be shed. Best to avoid random Raid groups for the next couple of weeks.

 

[rbanke]

I'm at a weird point with this game. I'm level 29, I don't have enough friends to attempt the raid ( only play with the same 3 people) and a LFG doesn't really work for me because I don't have a lot of time I can dedicate to a raid anyway, at least my friends would understand me dropping out or putting off the next step till tomorrow etc. Anyway, I don't expect to do the raid stuff ever but I still play it. This leaves me doing bounties and weekly's and I was thinking it might be a good idea to upgrade my sparrow but I don't know if its worth it. Would it be dumb to buy a sparrow then buy the Xur upgrade? The alternative is really just buy legendary weapons for the various damage types I'm missing.

 

[Mindlog]

Broke down and bought Truth even though I really wanted the Sparrow upgrade. Even with a fully upgraded Gjallarhorn the idea of a Void exotic rocket combined with nerf bet hedging is just too much to pass on.

I finally bought myself a legendary machine gun, that being the swarm. I used it for the first time just now...damn, I like it.

Great great fantastic great choice. My favorite HMG and it's very strong in PvP. Largely responsible for the 'Mark of the Unbroken' I finally got. Wasn't really chasing it, but with 5 minutes left I still had it so I went for it.

A change will take effect next week which fixes a bug with Atheon's target selection. When using its Timestream ability, Atheon will select 3 players at random, instead of choosing the three players furthest from it.

Good change Bungie :]
No weak links.
Adapt.

Besides we'll all be able to Alpha Atheon after the first teleport soon.

Mythoclast's power tail is long enough for players to rely on in the next Raid. For a player and their group of six who beat Atheon on Hard mode, we'd like the Mythoclast to be a weapon they can continue to rely on in the next Raid, Crota’s End.

Dope. I'll be throwing energy into it knowing this bit of information. I had stopped using and upgrading it entirely.

I'd like to hear how the update process has changed since last gen. I have no idea how Defiance managed to get its updates done at a time when many believed MS had some pretty strict rules in place. Wonder if something changed for that game or what.

So many(most?) people suck with the relic and/or have no idea what to do when teleported. The Atheon fight is going to be glorious, many tears will be shed. Best to avoid random Raid groups for the next couple of weeks.

Can't wait. I think the first idea would be to set up Relic tiers. Tier 1 players pick it up immediately after being teleported. Tier 2 wait 1 second and so on.
Figuring it out will be fun.

 

[Daemul]

Are they going to make Relic duty in Templar fight random too?

I'm not going to lie, I want to see them implement this just to see the panic that would ensue.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

Of course, we'll never know for sure if it really was a bug or not, but if it wasn't, the audacity...

 

[Ken]

Also with how light level works in that it doesn't take weapons into consideration, that opens the possibility of sending party members with lower DPS into the portal team which is more or less a DPS check.

 

[Jinjo]

Hah, silly Bungie. How about I'll just have three sunsinger warlocks in my raid team, make them jump of the cliff before the teleport, have the other set of three people get teleported, warlocks use revive and voila. (Nice job on making sunsingers even more OP)

Really, the most fun part about the raid was, dividing roles, and people learning how to execute them perfectly.

Same dumb thing with the added stationary gorgons in the maze now. Should have put the exit not near the goddamn entrance if you didn't want people to run through it. Literally all they've done now, is added two jumps in the "route". Gg Bungie. We're smarter than you, accept it.

 

[Raxus]

I wonder how long it will be until Bungie fixes ACTUAL bugs.

 

[MechDX]

I'm at a weird point with this game. I'm level 29, I don't have enough friends to attempt the raid ( only play with the same 3 people) and a LFG doesn't really work for me because I don't have a lot of time I can dedicate to a raid anyway, at least my friends would understand me dropping out or putting off the next step till tomorrow etc. Anyway, I don't expect to do the raid stuff ever but I still play it. This leaves me doing bounties and weekly's and I was thinking it might be a good idea to upgrade my sparrow but I don't know if its worth it. Would it be dumb to buy a sparrow then buy the Xur upgrade? The alternative is really just buy legendary weapons for the various damage types I'm missing.

I'm in the same boat friends and Raid wise. Sucks I can never max out my character because I can't do Raids and Bungie seems to give zero fucks.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

Also with how light level works in that it doesn't take weapons into consideration, that opens the possibility of sending party members with lower DPS into the portal team which is more or less a DPS check.

whoops, hopefully Bungie doesn't read this, they don't like strategies in the raid

 

[Gurrry]

The atheon teleport "fix" is seriously a tough fucking blow.

Bungie just doesnt get it, do they?

Instead of adding key features that they failed to have at launch, they would rather tell their playerbase how they want us to play rather than us making those decisions ourselves.

The lootcave nerf - I understand where they are coming from, but honestly, why do they care what people want to do for 5-6 hours? Its the players time to invest, not theirs. Their loot system is so horrible that those players were hardly even rewarded for their efforts, especially pre-patch.

The shotgun/assault rifle nerf - Focusing a balance change soley on PVP complaints, not realizing that PVE should have its own balance/focus. They bascially decided to make the bullet sponge bosses even more sponge-like.

Atheon Spawn - What the actual fuck? Why? WHY does this matter so much to you Bungie? WHY?! I dont get this at all.

6-way communication is hard as it is.

"I GOT TELEPORTED!"

"WHO ARE YOU?!"

"IM GURRRY! WHO ARE YOU?"

"WHERE AM I!? HELP!!!"

Gaurdian Down.

Gaurdian Down.

Wipe.

Awesome!

 

[Strider]

I wonder how long it will be until Bungie fixes ACTUAL bugs.

This

 

[Afrocious]

Old school World of Warcraft user here. Mad respect. These raids are cakewalks compared to the encounters for other MMO's. The only thing that makes them difficult is the amount of bugs in the encounters.

Hard mode raid will be more or less impossible unless you hit 30.

Bungie really should implement something to help people get to 30 instead of running their heads into a wall for several weeks straight.

*nods*

The raid honestly lacks enough mechanics and variety compared to normal mode raids I've played in TOR, and even then they were purely mechanics based. It wasn't until you did Hard modes it became about both mechanics and getting most out of your spec.

I like the idea a first person shooter has a raid. However, Heroic VoG in this game is the same as Normal except now you have a bullshit no-revive mechanic to deal with. It makes playing the raid more difficult as opposed to making the raid itself difficult.

I agree that Bungie should help folks get to 30 better than what they're doing now as far as raid drops being based on RNG because so far the system is terrible and can make the raid a waste of time (for the folks who say you should only raid for fun and don't mind only getting materials and repeat of gear you've gotten already: lol fuck no that's terrible and I have shit to do while getting better at this game).

So far, being level 30 doesn't have any sort of reward despite the bullshit folks like myself had to go through to get to it (all in part of Bungie's RNGesus). I'd like some sort of level 30 playlist at the very least giving me a higher chance at getting major loot. Similar to Nightfall, but with a simpler results output - like either you get a random exotic or 20 strange coins once a week, and then repeat plays get you 20-30marks you can use for ANY vendor.

 

[Dante316]

I'm in the same boat friends and Raid wise. Sucks I can never max out my character because I can't do Raids and Bungie seems to give zero fucks.

Are you asking for matchmaking after they just made final fight all random...you dont want that plz say your not asking for torture.

 

[Panthers]

I'm in the same boat friends and Raid wise. Sucks I can never max out my character because I can't do Raids and Bungie seems to give zero fucks.

Maxing out isn't for you then. The point of maxing is to do hard mode raid so it's not really important for you to get max. Just get the best you can.

 

[Zakalwe]

I'm at a weird point with this game. I'm level 29, I don't have enough friends to attempt the raid ( only play with the same 3 people) and a LFG doesn't really work for me because I don't have a lot of time I can dedicate to a raid anyway, at least my friends would understand me dropping out or putting off the next step till tomorrow etc. Anyway, I don't expect to do the raid stuff ever but I still play it. This leaves me doing bounties and weekly's and I was thinking it might be a good idea to upgrade my sparrow but I don't know if its worth it. Would it be dumb to buy a sparrow then buy the Xur upgrade? The alternative is really just buy legendary weapons for the various damage types I'm missing.

Why not ask here or on lfg for players with RL commitments similar to your own?

 

[coolasj19]

I'm trying to envision how a team will communicate what the fuck is going on via one mic channel with random Atheon teleports.
The mic is already queued up nearly constantly as the encounter is currently constructed, with people already knowing their role and relaying information between teams.
It's going to be complete fuckery.

Haven't done the final boss on hard mode but it's really freaking easy. Everyone in my Raid group has been teleported or left behind accidentally at some point or another and they figured it out right then and there what to do. Are there Oracles? Shoot them. Is that a Relic? Pick it up. What portal do we open? *only difficult part* Venus or Mars = Left or Right. Just copy what you've seen your teammates do. Besides, everyone should figure out how to use the Relic at some point in time.

Random teleport is really lame though. I hate gate duty. HATE IT.

 

[The Driver]

So what's the best way to tackle the Raid? I can never seem to get 6 people together for some reason. I really really want to do it, to the point, I don't feel as much satisfaction playing Destiny anymore.

1) I can only play 10pm (GMT +1) for an extended period of time, an hour or two later would affect my sleep pattern unfortunately.
2) Mic use - as the night goes by and the grumpy people in my house that need to sleep don't like me being loud, means that I have to have minimal contact on the mic.
3) I have literally no experience playing the Raid.
4) I really want to go through the Raid

Use Destinyflg.net. I'm playing on the grandpa consoles so most of my normal XBL group is on the One now, so I used that site. Took around 30ish minutes of messaging there and on XBL but I found a full group and they where actually really cool and chill. I think about half of the group was comprised of friends and the rest where randoms.

I'd also say to do it on a Tuesday also. More people online running the raid right after the reset.