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[Unknown Soldier]

This explains why Squenix suddenly started talking about their new Luminous Engine. It's not for this generation after all...

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

I just wonder if E3 next year we'll hear anything about the next systems or if it will be 'business as usual'.

Christ, i think i'll lose the will to live if we have another E3 as utterly shit as this years....i really wont be able to stomach another show focused on all this motion control horseshit.

 

[bigtroyjon]

I'm not buying 1 years difference between MS/Sony. There's no way either one of them will allow 2 years of headstart to Nintendo.

Nintendo 2012
Sony & MS 2013

Next gen decisions will be based on how viable it is financially and not based on some user base pissing match, late start(which had shitty sales) didn't end up hurting Sony in terms of 3rd party support. PS4 will come out when it's profitable to do so because the PS3 isn't going to be able to support losses like the PS2 was able to do for the PS3.

I think they will be a year after Microsoft because that's when they will be able to afford to release comparable hardware.

 

[manueldelalas]

Uh, what? If anything the 360 is quite a bit more powerful than the PS3. If it had bluray there would be no debate.

Where did you get this?

 

[KingDizzi]

Can't see Sony rushing and making sure the PS4 releases along side the 720, they have nothing to worry about when it comes to MS. Sony beat Sony this generation, if they manage yet another spectacular '£425' then Sony will be fucked again, release of the PS4 at the £300-350 or so range has them sorted though. Wii U won't push out the PS4 or 720 for the obvious reason in that it's hardly anything special on a technical standpoint.

 

[H_Prestige]

Where did you get this?

Much more advanced GPU, more RAM, easier to program, and consistently better or equal multiplatform games.

 

[AgentChris]

The PS3 we got is much different from the one Kutaragi had envisioned. Kojima mentioned this during a keynote.

 

[H_Prestige]

Can't see Sony rushing and making sure the PS4 releases along side the 720, they have nothing to worry about when it comes to MS. Sony beat Sony this generation, if they manage yet another spectacular '£425' then Sony will be fucked again, release of the PS4 at the £300-350 or so range has them sorted though. Wii U won't push out the PS4 or 720 for the obvious reason in that it's hardly anything special on a technical standpoint.

MS brutally kicked their ass in NA and is holding their own pretty well even in EU. They are by far Sony's most dangerous opponent. Nintendo isn't as much of a problem, since they are going into next gen with very little momentum.

 

[see5harp]

Can't see Sony rushing and making sure the PS4 releases along side the 720, they have nothing to worry about when it comes to MS. Sony beat Sony this generation, if they manage yet another spectacular '£425' then Sony will be fucked again, release of the PS4 at the £300-350 or so range has them sorted though. Wii U won't push out the PS4 or 720 for the obvious reason in that it's hardly anything special on a technical standpoint.

No one will disput the monumental impact of a $599.99 launch but to say the 360 had nothing to do with it you are absolutely mad. Remember the PS3 firmware at launch? There's a reason the 360 is on top in North America and it's not all because of price.

 

[AgentChris]

MS brutally kicked their ass in NA and is holding their own pretty well even in EU. They are by far Sony's most dangerous opponent. Nintendo isn't as much of a problem, since they are going into next gen with very little momentum.

Actually I think Sony is Sony's biggest enemy... Charge $599 and still lose billions. lulz

 

[Totobeni]

I hope Ueda turn The Last Guardian into a PS4 game Just like what he did with Ico.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Next gen decisions will be based on how viable it is financially and not based on some user base pissing match, late start(which had shitty sales) didn't end up hurting Sony in terms of 3rd party support.

Sony did get hurt a lot in regard of third party support. PS2 became the phenomenal success that it was mostly because of its amazing line-up of third party exclusives, and with the exception of a lower profile game here and there, that's all gone now. It wasn't only due to PS3 launching a year later than Xbox 360, but that was one of the reasons for its relatively poor performance which hurt Sony's standing with third parties.

Still, I agree that neither Sony nor Microsoft will be making any important decisions based solely on their competition's moves.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

Actually I think Sony is Sony's biggest enemy... Charge $599 and still lose billions. lulz

Truth.

 

[electroshockwave]

On paper it will be able to process things more efficiently and in greater numbers, but to assume this will translate directly to the final image...is hopeful.

Last month Nvidia claimed their latest video card (GTX 580) is ten times more powerful than that which is in the Xbox 360/PS3. Is their a PC game that looks ten times better?

How can you put a number on how much better graphics look? Most PC games are still held back by consoles but among the few that are pushing PCs they have more geometry, better effects and are running at significantly higher resolutions and frame rates than the PS360 can handle. I don't know if there's a way to put a quantifiable number on that but I wouldn't just pull a number out of my ass to say "two or three times better."

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Much more advanced GPU, more RAM, easier to program, and consistently better or equal multiplatform games.

PS3 and 360 have the same amount of RAM

 

[Proelite]

On paper it will be able to process things more efficiently and in greater numbers, but to assume this will translate directly to the final image...is hopeful.

Last month Nvidia claimed their latest video card (GTX 580) is ten times more powerful than that which is in the Xbox 360/PS3. Is their a PC game that looks ten times better?

As long as the flops are there I am fine with it. The programmable flops for next generation looks to be 25-50x more. Whether or not that translates into Avatar quality graphics remains to be seen.

 

[manueldelalas]

Much more advanced GPU, more RAM, easier to program, and consistently better or equal multiplatform games.

Doesn't the PS3 use much faster RAM? Also the CPU is much better.

Easier to program is not a measure of raw hardware power, it is a measure of Sony's incompetence when building a system. The better or equal multiplatform games is because of the ease of programming and not raw system power.

But that's the whole point; the three systems will end being very similar in performance on actual games even if they are released 1 or 2 years apart. This is not the PS2 era; we've seen that only a few developers are pushing graphics in this age (only developers whose business is their engine and some first party developers).

 

[Proelite]

PS3 and 360 have the same amount of RAM

360 have 10 mb more ram physically. The 360 os also uses less ram. The 360 had quite more usable ram in the beginning of this generation, and the ram was unified.

The ram situation was clearly better on the 360, but Blu-ray and Hdd made up the gap in other ways.

 

[thuway]

It is imperative for Sony to develop a logical, mature, and sensical online setup that is cheaper than the competition.

I expect Next Box to be a Windows 8 integrated platform.

 

[Man]

The PS3 we got is much different from the one Kutaragi had envisioned. Kojima mentioned this during a keynote.

2x Cells was rumored Carmack said (no dedicated GPU).

 

[Combichristoffersen]

360 have 10 mb more ram physically. The 360 os also uses less ram. The 360 had quite more usable ram in the beginning of this generation, and the ram was unified.

360 has 512 MB unified RAM, PS3 has 256 MB video RAM and 256 MB system RAM. What are the 10 MB extra RAM in the 360 you mentioned? You are right that the 360 OS has a smaller memory footprint than the PS3 OS, even if Sony's managed to reduce the memory footprint since the PS3 launched.

 

[flabberghastly]

Can't see Sony rushing and making sure the PS4 releases along side the 720, they have nothing to worry about when it comes to MS. Sony beat Sony this generation, if they manage yet another spectacular '£425' then Sony will be fucked again, release of the PS4 at the £300-350 or so range has them sorted though. Wii U won't push out the PS4 or 720 for the obvious reason in that it's hardly anything special on a technical standpoint.

No one will disput the monumental impact of a $599.99 launch but to say the 360 had nothing to do with it you are absolutely mad. Remember the PS3 firmware at launch? There's a reason the 360 is on top in North America and it's not all because of price.

It doesn't have to be an either/or. Sony made enormous mistakes, and Microsoft capitalized on them. The PS3 has seen the success it has vis-a-vis the 360 this generation because of both of these issues.

Personally, I'm with Mark Rein: I want to see the new generation of consoles when it can put out something of the quality of Samaritan at a price point around $350-400. If that's 2013, OK. If that's 2014, so be it. Make the generational jump as worthwhile as possible.

With regard to technology, they both need to be advanced so as not to give either an obvious advantage, and it needs to be significant enough to make the WiiU look dated. I'd like to see more integration with cell phones, as well. In fact, I'd love it if Sony simply worked with Google - give the PS4 an Android-based OS with Chrome as its browser, integrate it with Google accounts (Google+, GMail, Youtube), provide Android phone-to-PS4 cross-functionality, and keep PSN free through subsidization by Google ads.

 

[Proelite]

360 has 512 MB unified RAM, PS3 has 256 MB video RAM and 256 MB system RAM. What are the 10 MB extra RAM in the 360 you mentioned? You are right that the 360 OS has a smaller memory footprint than the PS3 OS, even if Sony's managed to reduce the memory footprint since the PS3 launched.

10mb Edram. That counts as ram right? :?

 

[Proelite]

With regard to technology, they both need to be advanced so as not to give either an obvious advantage, and it needs to be significant enough to make the WiiU look dated. I'd like to see more integration with cell phones, as well. In fact, I'd love it if Sony simply worked with Google - give the PS4 an Android-based OS with Chrome as its browser, integrate it with Google accounts (Google+, GMail, Youtube), provide Android phone-to-PS4 cross-functionality, and keep PSN free through subsidization by Google ads.

They should take it a step further and just let Google do the online.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

10mb Edram. That counts as ram right? :?

Ah, I see. I'm not sure if eDRAM should be counted as 'normal' RAM (system/video RAM) or not, maybe some of the GAF techheads could answer that question :3

 

[bigtroyjon]

With regard to technology, they both need to be advanced so as not to give either an obvious advantage, and it needs to be significant enough to make the WiiU look dated. I'd like to see more integration with cell phones, as well. In fact, I'd love it if Sony simply worked with Google - give the PS4 an Android-based OS with Chrome as its browser, integrate it with Google accounts (Google+, GMail, Youtube), provide Android phone-to-PS4 cross-functionality, and keep PSN free through subsidization by Google ads.

I wonder how much money Sony would end up paying Microsoft for each PS4 they make if they use Android. $10 bucks seems to be the going rate for phones and tablets. Would be funny if they price the 720 10 dollars cheaper and just say they are subsidizing the cheaper cost with PS4 sales.

 

[DieH@rd]

I want to see the renessaince of PC gaming when nextgen multiplatorm games bring the total need of ditching dualcore [and maybe quadcore] processors and 32bit OS'es.

Batman Arkham xxx, Darksiders 3, Mass Effect 4, Battlefield X on PC? Bring it on!

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Ah, I see. I'm not sure if eDRAM should be counted as 'normal' RAM (system/video RAM) or not, maybe some of the GAF techheads could answer that question :3

It's used as a frame buffer (and for some other things) so it does free up some "normal" memory (PS3 has to use a part of its video memory). Since 10 MB is not enough for all purposes, this approach is not without its flaws, but technically, it does contribute to Xbox 360 having more available memory.

 

[kneePat]

Vita is compatible with PSP/PSN software when Sony could have gotten away with not having it. PS4 will have full BC with PS1/PS2/PS3 games. Bank on it.

lol 799$ PS4 confirmed.

All indications point to PS4 switching from nVidia to ATI, and possibly moving away from the cell, so I'd be hard pressed to believe this.

And are you sure Vita is compatible with all PSN software? I heard minis, and maybe PSOne, but all games seems like a stretch because I don't believe they would give all that away for free to existing owners? Also Super Stardust Delta is coming out for the Vita, so if Super Stardust HD was already compatible it would eat into sales.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

lol 799$ PS4 confirmed.

All indications point to PS4 switching from nVidia to ATI, and possibly moving away from the cell, so I'd be hard pressed to believe this.

And are you sure Vita is compatible with all PSN software? I heard minis, and maybe PSOne, but all games seems like a stretch because I don't believe they would give all that away for free to existing owners? Also Super Stardust Delta is coming out for the Vita, so if Super Stardust HD was already compatible it would eat into sales.

Yeah, the VITA is compatible to all PSN titles. I am not sure about the PS2 titles that were recently up on PSN though. But the VITA should play PS1, PSP, and minis

 

[Log4Girlz]

If Square cannot make HD towns this generation, what else will be sacrificed next generation?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

If Square cannot make HD towns this generation, what else will be sacrificed next generation?

Gameplay. Next-gen FF will be a CGI movie.

 

[Proelite]

Gameplay. Next-gen FF will be a CGI movie.

Probably will be the best FF ever then.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I'm not buying 1 years difference between MS/Sony. There's no way either one of them will allow 2 years of headstart to Nintendo.

It sounds more like Nintendo being late to a party that started in 2005, with a new party about to start that they're not invited to.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

It sounds more like Nintendo being late to a party that started in 2005, with a new party about to start that they're not invited to.

Popcorn.gif

 

[kneePat]

Yeah, the VITA is compatible to all PSN titles. I am not sure about the PS2 titles that were recently up on PSN though. But the VITA should play PS1, PSP, and minis

I was saying it wouldn't play the PS3 arcade games like Joe Danger etc., but I guess that's obvious since those are PS3 games.

 

[AgentChris]

Gameplay. Next-gen FF will be a CGI movie.

Basically Advent Children with button prompts.

 

[ThisWreckage]

We may not see the PS4 until 2015 or later. I guarantee you that Microsoft will completely abandon the 360, Nintendo will be focusing on the Wii U, and Sony will have the cheapest console on the market. A $99.99 PS3 would do some serious damage and I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony do massive numbers.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Probably will be the best FF ever then.

Could go either way. Spirits Within was total ass, while Advent Children was pretty cool if you shut off your brain to just enjoy the visual spectacle and not attempt to make sense of the story.

 

[mrklaw]

I'm highly doubting Sony let's their arrogance ride on into next-gen, and give MS a year early launch. That hurt them nearly as much as the price of the hardware I believe. The other area that Sony has to really capitalize on is that they have a major edge in first-party developers. No "last hurrahs" from developers this time, get them all on the new hardware asap and get something going for the launch window with them all. As far as I'm concerned, considering that earliest would be 2013, the current systems are basically dead to me, I don't want to see their top studios putting out a game that would have been better off on vastly more powerful hardware. Let the third parties play around with your current hardware yet for the next two years. Sony needs to, and is probably looking to swing things around this time, and this is how you do it.

I'd also expect this time that we'll finally see a revised standard controller actually happen.

Then you have the interesting aspect of next-gen games where F2P may actually become adopted into the consoles.

All I know is, I can't wait for trailer-wars at next E3! Always feel like a kid with new hardware announcements.

naughty dog pretty much said its diminishing returns for UC3, so i agree, get them on PS4 now unless they are working on 2H12 games

 

[mrklaw]

From a company perspective an announcement that early makes no sense. Why would you ever want to give your customers a reason to not buy your current console?

Of course the rumor mill will be rolling by E3 2012, but it's better to deny it up until you really have to publically announce the product, which is about 6 months prior to launch.

because you aren't teasing the PS4 to potential PS3 buyers, you're teasing it to those that have already had a PS3 for a few years. Different markets that will overlap for a year or two as the PS3 drops in price and becomes a licensed shovel ware shithole

 

[Syphon Filter]

2012 Wii U
2013 Xbox 720
2014 PlayStation 4

Sounds perfect to me.

I seriously doubt sony is going to allow MS to get a year headstart again.

 

[mrklaw]

If someone hold outs to 2014 they could launch with 20nm process and produce something truly insane

If someone launches in 2013 they could produce something insane and take the hit on cost/yield and cooling, then cost engineer to 20nm a year or two later.

 

[CosmicQueso]

It sounds more like Nintendo being late to a party that started in 2005, with a new party about to start that they're not invited to.

That's one of the best things I've read on GAF.

The one ugly thing for the whole industry in the dedicated handheld business. Taking that part away also hurts Nintendo's and Sony's economies of scale. And if streaming takes off, and if Apple seriously gets in the mix with some kind of AppleTV/game app console thing... let's just say next-gen will be the most interesting one since... ever?

 

[Globox_82]

well Sony better launch in the same year as MS, or I am "Jumping in". I never owned and MS console, but I am not going to be second class citizen two generations in a row. Who ever has one year lead (at this point) , they will get more support. Of course if consoles are around same power like PS3 vs 360.
Don't let me down Sony

 

[Jonm1010]

That's one of the best things I've read on GAF.

The one ugly thing for the whole industry in the dedicated handheld business. Taking that part away also hurts Nintendo's and Sony's economies of scale. And if streaming takes off, and if Apple seriously gets in the mix with some kind of AppleTV/game app console thing... let's just say next-gen will be the most interesting one since... ever?

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years.

Theres the looming possibility of Apple putting more focus again on jumping into the living room, perhaps with some appletv/game app/game system hybrid.

Services like OnLive would be a threat if fiber optic connections became more common place in America and throughout Europe.

Personally I think for at least the next generation consoles will still be the main revenue driver and focal point of development for game companies. I think the industry will continue to fracture and perhaps see apple start creeping into the living room. But I dont think until after next gen is beginning to wind down are we really going to see some sort of real paramount shift in how the games industry is set up.

 

[Monty Mole]

2x Cells was rumored Carmack said (no dedicated GPU).

Well the GPU was put in at the very last minute, hence the deal with Nvidia. All seemed a bit Saturn to me at the time.

 

[Globox_82]

Well, it'll be telling if Evolution totally miss next year for a release.

Next year they have (by my reckoning):

- Twisted Metal
- StarHawk
- Sorcery
- Sly 4
- The Last Guardian

Its so-so at present.

If Media Molecule, Evolution, Studio London etc miss the year, then PS4 is closer than we think.

We still don't know exactly what the following studios plans are:

Quantic Dream
SuperBot Entertainment
Ready At Dawn

I think waiting for VGA's is good enough excuse. Considering that Sony was focusing on VITA in last couple of months, I understand why they didn't show that many games for 2012, they would be given enough attention. So I say wait for VGA's and even next E3. I doubt Sony is going to release PS4 next year.

 

[Averon]

Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, and Polyphony are pretty much guaranteed to have first dibs at PS4 hardware.

 

[jmdajr]

We may not see the PS4 until 2015 or later. I guarantee you that Microsoft will completely abandon the 360, Nintendo will be focusing on the Wii U, and Sony will have the cheapest console on the market. A $99.99 PS3 would do some serious damage and I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony do massive numbers.

no they won't. not with xbox live and all the features they have.

it won't be like xbox1