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Did high school prepare you for college?

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Matlock

Banned
I ask this question, because I feel it was pretty seamless between the two--but this fella disagrees.

For reference, the writer of this article was the supergenius of the school--piano, chess, math: anything he did was better than anyone else at the school. In some points, he even skipped a grade for some courses here and there.

And...well...

This is what happened when he hit college.

I went to the same high school as him. Graduated with a GPA of Pi, a ACT of 24, and a chip on my shoulder.

So I wonder...why did he fail so badly?

Hrm.

Were you prepared for the jump?

My name is Alex Frazier, and I graduated from Harrison Central High School in 2004. I was the co-valedictorian and carried a perfect GPA of 4.0. Although I did receive high aptitude scores on the ACT (comp. 35) and SAT (M 800 V 600), I depended, as did most other students, on high school classes and experiences to ready me for college.

I am now a freshman at Grove City College in Pennsylvania. My GPA for first semester was a 3.118. It seems acceptable to most people, but to me, because of my perfect GPA in high school, it feels extremely low. Breaking down my first semester reveals a 2.56 GPA at midterms, dropped class because of failing grades, and a change of major from math to music. I thought I was prepared for college, but I could not have been further from the truth.

The problem lies not in the college, but in my high school experiences. My studies at HCHS failed to prepare me for what lay before me in the near future, I use the term "studies" loosely.

In fact, I rarely studied for any quizzes or tests in high school. The only times I ever took material home to learn were for the midterm and final exams.

Here at GCC, studying is mandatory to maintain good grades. In fact, a large amount of studying is crucial for success. Because of my lack of studying in high school, I have absolutely no study skills. I struggle to get motivated to study, and I frequently wait until the very last minute to "cram" for the test.

This entire distress could be reduced if high school classes were more difficult, requiring study techniques to be practiced and mastered.

Information at HCHS was practically spoon-fed tome with notes on the board to copy, handouts of notes, notes on the overhead projector, etc. Consequently, we students never learned how to properly take notes by listening to the teacher lecture and jotting down the important ideas and information.

Here at college, the professor frequently lectures for the entire class, expecting us to write down all vital and relevant information. We take notes every day for weeks and then are tested on a massive amount of information.

That grade could very well be half of the semester's grade, and if I did not take good notes, I achieve a miserable score. Since this was never required of me in high school, I am completely unprepared.

Also, as of June 2004, Advance Placement (AP) courses were not available at HCHS. The only "honors" class at the high school was English College Prep, and even that class was barely different from English Basic.

For example, my schedule was very full senior year, and the only opening for English was during one of the basic classes. The plan was to attend that class, but work on the honors class work instead. I could scarcely see any difference in the classes, albeit a few extra vocabulary words here and there. Having had the availability of AP classes could have greatly affected my success at GCC.

I am certain that I am not the only student that is struggling with college classes after hardly struggling in high school. This scenario is most likely common with graduates from the Harrison Hills City School District.

Seldom do you hear students call for higher standards, but I must make suggestion in this desperate situation. Provide Advanced Placement classes. Permanently alter lesson plans so students have to efficiently take detailed notes in order to success in the class. Make tests so that students are forced to learn to study.

If these solutions or variations of them will not work, dig deeper into the problem, the faculty. Certain teachers at the high school do not possess the ability to handle these suggested changes and others not aforementioned.

We, as a community, need educators who can train students in succeeding in life. Teachers are the foundations of children's education; they cannot lay a weak cornerstone. Please find a solution to these critical problems quickly, so any more damage done to graduates is minimal.
 

chinch

Tenacious-V Redux
sounds like this guy was pampered in a (vastly overrated) highschool. Perfect 4.0 w/o carrying home books... ROTF.

bill gates nailed it a few months ago when he said high school of today is obsolete.
 

fugimax

Member
Sounds like the kid was good at "playing the game", but he wasn't necessarily smart. But I mean...he's going to GCC...I go to Carnegie Mellon (which is slightly near Grove City), and I hardly consider myself a crazy genius by any means. Was your high school retarded, Matlock? I can't see how he's failing at GCC unless your HS sucked...or he was just good at following directions (which is all you really need to do to get through HS).

His point may be valid in that you can get through HS without understanding much, but most people don't do that. They try to understand, etc. If he was simply good at memorizing and following directions, then ya, I can see why he sucks at college.
 

teiresias

Member
I dunno, I was a consistant B, B+, A student in high school, with more B's than A's, but in college I found getting A's rather simple, particularly in general education courses, but getting A's was still difficult in some of the more demanding engineering courses I took, but even some engineering courses were a breeze (anyone that fails the intro Digital Logic Design course in their engineering department is a complete moron). Since I was generally taking courses I was actually interested in in college it was easier to focus on them.

Of course, in my middle school and high school career we had entire lectures on note-taking for lectures, etc. and I took two AP courses in high school Calculus (AB) and English. It's definately a function of your grade school program IMO, but I have horrible study habits as well and haven't really suffered from it. If I haven't learned the material as the semester progresses studying specifically for the exam is not going to make a bit of difference for me, and since I know this I make it a point to understand material as the course progresses, but I never really sit down just to study.
 

Ristamar

Member
Personally, I thought highschool was more demanding than college. I didn't go to a particularly demanding college, but I did graduate with a 4.0, for what it's worth.

This entire distress could be reduced if high school classes were more difficult, requiring study techniques to be practiced and mastered.

No, no, and just plain no. Fuck, that's just a lack of common sense.

That grade could very well be half of the semester's grade, and if I did not take good notes, I achieve a miserable score. Since this was never required of me in high school, I am completely unprepared.

I can understand why the kid struggles if he can't take notes. That would be the crux of his troubles.
 

Wendo

Vasectomember
I also found high school to be more demanding than college. In high school you were fucked if you didn't study for an exam, whereas in college an hour of study time is often all you'll need.

I was suprised with how easy college was. But then again, I went to one of the best high schools in my state.
 

retzy

Member
IMO, high school wasn't anything but a place to spend time and see friends. I take pride in the fact that I had a 2.9 GPA and still finished high school with a higher ACT than our valedictorian. Props to all the slackers out there, college is a little more demanding than high school, but nothing you shouldn't be able to handle.
 

AntoneM

Member
sounds to me like the guy thought he was cool shit and could breeze through college like he breezed through HS. The kid obviously had no work ethic and set aside his studies to pursue other interests (teh womens). HS shouldn't be a preparation for college it should be an end in itself. He was plainly not ready for college and is trying to place the blame on his HS when he's the only one to blame.

I admit I wasn't ready for college either I spent 2 years just going through the motions, dropping numerous classes and only maintaining a 2.2 GPA. I actually dropped out for 1 1/2 years until I thought I was really ready to go back, and you know what? I'm taking 18 credits and getting a 3.6 GPA.
 

Memles

Member
As an Arts major...yes. My marks were high in high school (I think it was a 93 average overall), I graduated with high honours, all of that jazz. Going into university, there were some courses where I was not happy with my marks...but it was still all A- and up. While I still haven't really learned to accept A-s, I believe at this point that High School prepared me well enough for what I faced in my first year. Of course, I was dealing with courses like English and History, where being a good student and working dilligently can be enough to handle the material. It is in a situation like math that a bad high school teacher can screw you, big time. I spent four semesters with one math teacher in my last two years of high school, and he was a really good teacher...but he was hard. And he expected a lot. The good students did well, and the students who were not quite as good did not do quite as well. He's from Antigua, and his accent even turned some people off.

One of my friends was also in the class, and she struggled in it. She didn't put the effort into going to extra help, working harder at tests, or participating in class. And, at university, she had some struggles with calculus. Mind you, some things were easy, but when it comes down to it our patterns of learning are defined by high school. While individual subjects may or may not prepare us for the realities we'll face in those areas, the overall attitude we have towards learning at that stage defines how well it prepares us for university/college.

My GPA ended up at a 3.9, so I'm not allowed to complain on the matter...those A-s bug, though.
 

belgurdo

Banned
Wendo said:
I also found high school to be more demanding than college. In high school you were fucked if you didn't study for an exam, whereas in college an hour of study time is often all you'll need.

I was suprised with how easy college was. But then again, I went to one of the best high schools in my state.

ditto. In high school I got crucified if I didn't prepare well in advance for any papers I had to complete, whereas in college I can shit out a research paper or report that's 60% quotes the day before it's due, with no edits, and still get a B+
 
Sortof. I had the knowledge I needed, but didn't have the work ethic I needed. I'm finishing up my freshman year, expecting to end the year with around a 3.8 as a double major math/physics. I don't know how I survived first semester with only one B, and the rest A's, as my work ethic was BAD. I learned more about time management and knowing when/how to study last semester than I did throughout all of highschool.

In terms of knowledge though, yes I was ready.
 

LakeEarth

Member
There's always a first year drop. It's an adjustment that just takes time to figure out. I've seen straight A students in highschool drop to C's in first year. I did worst in first year too, because they're TRYING to burn you out, get rid of all the weak people and let only the strong into the second year. They didn't let up on my program until third year, and even then there were some tough classes.
 

pxleyes

Banned
Yep, 100% completely.

I went to a private school though with a graduating class of 103 people. I had a few advantages when it came to facilities and student/teacher ratio.
 
LakeEarth said:
There's always a first year drop. It's an adjustment that just takes time to figure out. I've seen straight A students in highschool drop to C's in first year. I did worst in first year too, because they're TRYING to burn you out, get rid of all the weak people and let only the strong into the second year. They didn't let up on my program until third year, and even then there were some tough classes.
Yep, my professors said as much too.

The 1st year classes are so harsh because the professors are weeding out the freshmen who either can't make it in college, or just don't have their hearts in it. They don't want to waste their time teaching kids who are going to flunk or drop out of college eventually, so it's better to get rid of those students earlier rather than later. And for a student, it sure as hell beats suddenly realizing you don't wanna be a (insert major here) three years down the road, after thousands of dollars in student loans and hundreds of hours invested. Not a whole lot you can do about it then except bend over, right?

My first semester at college, I went from being a perfect 4.0 in HS to getting my first C ever on a grade report. I had the opposite reaction this guy seems to be having, though... I felt kinda excited to be deemed "average." Felt a bit of a rush, actually.
 
Yeah, but I went to a really good high school (60 in my graduating class) and a somewhat mediocre university (well at least for an arts/science degree.) Did university prepare me for med school? Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell no. ;)
 

olimario

Banned
No.
High school is a bunch of extraneous bullshit. Grades on binders, busy work, and sometimes even attendance.

College you're graded on knowledge and comprehension of the subject.
 

Flynn

Member
High school didn't prepare me for college, it drove me to college.

Mandatory public school is time served.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
nomoment said:
No.

But college or university doesn't prepare you for real life, either.

To a degree, it does. Most schools offer you plenty of opportunities to get credit for internships, which offer you a very good glimpse into Office Space while having the safety net of academia right below you. If you play your post-high school education right, the experience you get is right on target.

The transition for me was pretty seamless. About the only difference - really - is that there are more girls around, and the apartment isn't owned by the university (and as of last month, the weather's a hell of a lot nicer.) I also think it's arguable that college worked me a lot harder than real life ever could.
 
demi said:
I've been out of school for a year and have yet to attend college.

I'm fucked.

I bet you'll drop out. I sorta took a year off and only took one class. The class itself was great. I loved the professor, but I couldn't stand how it was just an extension of high school. So now I'm gonna try out culinary school. Hands on learning > lectures and notes. That, and I'll have a job when I graduate :p
 
I took 3 years off before I decided to give college a shot. I'm a better student at this point than I ever was in highschool. Though my time management still sucks ass. I leave everything until the last moment. I've tried to change, but it isn't going to happen. I've just learned to live with it.
 

olimario

Banned
Kicked out of high school.
Scored great on the GED
Got a 4.0 in community college
moving on to a state college
and then to a university

High school sucks.
 
I can't believe that kid is blaming his high school for *HIS* failures. College is hardly any different from high school, in my opinion. Well, actually it depends on your parents. But if your parents never made you study in high school then there is no difference, really.

College is just about self-control. If you can moderate yourself, study a bit (not much at all, but just a few hours each week), and attend 90% of your classes and take notes, you'll have at least a 3.0 GPA.

School in general has nothing to do with IQ. I've known some very dull people that did well both in college and high school. School is about work, imo... not talent.

Didn't Einstein fail out of college?
 

Macam

Banned
olimario said:
No.
High school is a bunch of extraneous bullshit. Grades on binders, busy work, and sometimes even attendance.

College you're graded on knowledge and comprehension of the subject.

That last statement is debatable; it obviously depends on the specific courses you're taking and the college you attend. I tend to side more with the statement that college doesn't prepare you for real life either, but xsarien makes a point: it just really depends what you put into the college you're at. There's tremendous potential if you look for it, but there's also tremendous potential to have college act as a continuation of high school which is what most students seem to do.

This guy's attitude is understandable though. It reminded me of an excerpt from one of Paul Graham's recent essays:

The first twenty years of everyone's life consists of being piped from one institution to another. You probably didn't have much choice about the secondary schools you went to. And after high school it was probably understood that you were supposed to go to college. You may have had a few different colleges to choose between, but they were probably pretty similar. So by this point you've been riding on a subway line for twenty years, and the next stop seems to be a job.

He just got off on a subway stop he wasn't familiar with; he'd best get used to those quickly.
 
Oh yeah, and another part of success in college is what friends you keep (are they party animals or are they decent students?).

My guidelines to succeed in college:
1) Keep smart friends, don't hang out with idiots.
2) Don't party until the weekends
3) Go to your classes
4) And if you never study (which is a bad idea, imo), spend 2 hours cramming before an exam and you'll do alright.

One last thing. Teachers usually grade you on effort (especially if it's a small class and exams aren't multiple choice), not knowledge/comprehension.

If you take an English, act like a dumbass during class discussions, and then write a decent paper. I gurrantee you get an A.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Yes.

20+ something college credits, and honestly I learned more in HS than I did my first two years of college (the BS stuff like chemistry, lab, physics intros.)
 

Johnas

Member
demi said:
I've been out of school for a year and have yet to attend college.

I'm fucked.

Not necessarily. I graduated from a small private high school (3.9 something GPA, salutatorian), went to college for a couple of years, got completely burned out on school, took a year off, went back and finished with a 3.3. Not the greatest graduating GPA, but in the lowest honors bracket at my college, so it had some distinction. I should mention my graduating class was 30 people (total school K-12 450 students) and I went to a college of 20,000. Slight culture shock on my part.

Just make sure you get some quality gaming in while you're still able :)
 

Tarazet

Member
As a musician, high school absolutely did not adequately prepare me for college. I had to learn how to write high-level papers on great composers more or less by osmosis. I had no ensemble experience. I had no conducting experience. I had no accompanying experience. I adapted well enough to get around a 3.5 for a year, but it became clear to me that I was too lost in the shuffle to succeed. So I dropped out and went back home, and enrolled into a college that doesn't have such arduous standards, where I've started to build, at last, a strong basis to become as good as I feel I should be.
 
Kinda surprised by the posts so far. I guess it really just depends on the school. My HS was basically one big waste of time - no AP courses, no lectures and hell, I only had to attend two classes a day in my senior year as you guys call it. Going to trade school afterwards was a real eye opener.

I suppose I should look up what this GPA stuff you guys are talking about is.
 

Loki

Count of Concision
sonarrat said:
As a musician, high school absolutely did not adequately prepare me for college. I had to learn how to write high-level papers on great composers more or less by osmosis. I had no ensemble experience. I had no conducting experience. I had no accompanying experience. I adapted well enough to get around a 3.5 for a year, but it became clear to me that I was too lost in the shuffle to succeed. So I dropped out and went back home, and enrolled into a college that doesn't have such arduous standards, where I've started to build, at last, a strong basis to become as good as I feel I should be.

You're not at Oberlin anymore, sonarrat? :)
 

puck1337

Member
Ahahahaha. No, because I fucked off for most of high school, whereas I was actually wanting to be at university, and because it's a completely different kind of learning.
 

Tarazet

Member
Loki said:
: |


Sorry, most things are a blur to me. I still think it's 1995. :D

It's not like I don't bring it up. In fact it's an ongoing mystery to me why I don't get labeled as an attention whore on the level of Olimario or Waychel...
 

Matlock

Banned
As a sidenote, I just remembered that AP classes WERE available--you could take Jr. and Sr. years at a local college (Two Community Colleges, Ohio University and Kent State University branches within driving distance) if you wanted.
 

Swordian

Member
No, my HS experience didn't prepare me for college. HS clases were easy to begin with and the grades were broken up between so many things (assignments, quizzes, tests) that you could make mistakes and still get the A rather easily. Of course, the comparison to college really depends on your major. My first major is Math/CS and for most of my Math classes homework is like 10% of the grade with the midterm and final making up the rest. When you take a test that's worth 40-50% of your grade and has 3 problems, there isn't any room for error. Of course, my other major is Japanese studies and so I've taken a lot of history classes and those are just as easy as any HS class.
 

cloudwalking

300chf ain't shit to me
i couldn't stand high school. i learned nothing, couldn't stand the people, the bullshit... i ended up dropping out after 10th grade and homeschooled myself the rest of the way. best decision i ever made. i learned SO much and even graduated early.
 
LoGradeChili said:
I can't believe that kid is blaming his high school for *HIS* failures. College is hardly any different from high school, in my opinion. Well, actually it depends on your parents. But if your parents never made you study in high school then there is no difference, really.

College is just about self-control. If you can moderate yourself, study a bit (not much at all, but just a few hours each week), and attend 90% of your classes and take notes, you'll have at least a 3.0 GPA.
Of course, if he puts in the effort he'll probably do better. However, I do get the impression that he was not challenged enough in high school. The school didn't even have AP courses which could have prepared him for college courses. Also, the fact that he had a 4.0 GPA suggests that he didn't have much to aim for. If he's already the best student at his school, he might feel the need to work harder.
4) And if you never study (which is a bad idea, imo), spend 2 hours cramming before an exam and you'll do alright
Gah. It's pretty darn difficult to cram in ochem in 2 hrs. Anyways, I suggest reviewing every night the day's material. If you have the time, review the material for the next midterm too.
As a sidenote, I just remembered that AP classes WERE available--you could take Jr. and Sr. years at a local college (Two Community Colleges, Ohio University and Kent State University branches within driving distance) if you wanted.
Are you saying that local college classes are AP classes? The AP program is a program where classes are done at high school. Then the students take a test from the College Board to see if they know enough to be rewarded college credit. IMO, college courses are better than APs because APs aren't worth much at college. On the other hand, college courses are transferrable, and some (if not most) health professional schools do not accept AP scores.

My transition was pretty smooth. Most of the material I had in the first year college was stuff I had already studied in high school. As for after college... I'm going to grad school anyways so it's more of the same. Hopefully no huge changes in studying style will be needed. For the "real world", hopefully the postdoc or residency will handle that transition.

btw, some of us like(d) chemistry... it's not bs for everyone
 

FoneBone

Member
No -- I got mostly As in high school and graduated in the top 10% (I think it was almost the top 5%) of my class, and I'm finishing my freshman year with, at best, a 3.0 GPA. Sigh...
 

Aruarian Reflection

Chauffeur de la gdlk
Yes, in the sense that it instilled basic studying skills and time management skills. It also gave me a very solid math and science background that, while not making my major any easier, at least keeps me from getting lost on day one.

What's more, my high school is freaking huge (4,000 students), which is about the same undergraduate size at my college (Johns Hopkins University), so that was an easy adjustment.
 

Phoenix

Member
Lets break down this sad excuse for an argument:

My name is Alex Frazier, and I graduated from Harrison Central High School in 2004. I was the co-valedictorian and carried a perfect GPA of 4.0. Although I did receive high aptitude scores on the ACT (comp. 35) and SAT (M 800 V 600), I depended, as did most other students, on high school classes and experiences to ready me for college.

They DO prepare you for college, but that doesn't mean that college is easy.

I am now a freshman at Grove City College in Pennsylvania. My GPA for first semester was a 3.118. It seems acceptable to most people, but to me, because of my perfect GPA in high school, it feels extremely low.

One of these days people will learn that GPA nor test scores are an indicator of how you WILL do in college.

Breaking down my first semester reveals a 2.56 GPA at midterms, dropped class because of failing grades, and a change of major from math to music. I thought I was prepared for college, but I could not have been further from the truth.

Being prepared for college does not mean that college is easy, that you won't have problems with classes, that you won't be in a difficult major, that you won't have huge issues with time management. You didn't go to Math High School, so you're seeing mostly brand new stuff and if you can't take in that stuff, you will have a hard time succeeding.

Here at GCC, studying is mandatory to maintain good grades. In fact, a large amount of studying is crucial for success. Because of my lack of studying in high school, I have absolutely no study skills. I struggle to get motivated to study, and I frequently wait until the very last minute to "cram" for the test.

Heaven forbid you have to study. High school isn't there to develop your study skills nor time management - that is a responsibility of the student.

This entire distress could be reduced if high school classes were more difficult, requiring study techniques to be practiced and mastered.

I see, so its the high schools fault for not making you study :)


That grade could very well be half of the semester's grade, and if I did not take good notes, I achieve a miserable score. Since this was never required of me in high school, I am completely unprepared.

This is LIFE. It is up to the person to prepare themselves. When you get out in the real world are you going to say that college didn't prepare you for the real world because they didn't teach you how to get up for work everyday, pay your bills on time, and work t o actually be a valuable member of whatever company or corporation you end up working for? Foolishness.



Seldom do you hear students call for higher standards, but I must make suggestion in this desperate situation. Provide Advanced Placement classes. Permanently alter lesson plans so students have to efficiently take detailed notes in order to success in the class. Make tests so that students are forced to learn to study.


You can't FORCE students to learn to study. A person either decides to study or they don't.

If these solutions or variations of them will not work, dig deeper into the problem, the faculty. Certain teachers at the high school do not possess the ability to handle these suggested changes and others not aforementioned.

We, as a community, need educators who can train students in succeeding in life. Teachers are the foundations of children's education; they cannot lay a weak cornerstone. Please find a solution to these critical problems quickly, so any more damage done to graduates is minimal.


The high school, the faculty, other people are the problem?
 
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