Kerotan
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Digital Foundry: Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 - PS5/PS5 Pro/Series X Tech Review - What Are the PS5 Pro Upgrades?
- Thread starter RedC
- Start date
kevboard
Member
you will never be able to download all assets. the download packs are only downloading some of the more important assets.
the entire assets are 2+ petabyte in size. it's literally the full globe.
so data streaming is always needed to play with the highest detail. the download packs are only there that you can play offline at graphics that are somewhat acceptable.
Senua
Member
Imagine being this retarded
Lagspike_exe
Member
Hopefully MFS and the new AC8 get PSVR2. It would be really awesome for the platform.
Lone Wolf
Member
I just meant the same assets as Xbox currently is capable of. That's all.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
The game is huge but I dont know anyone who installed everything on their XsX. There are so many minor updates besides the big ones, no, you're not gonna download a 15GB airport in the middle of nowhere which you will never fly over anyway. In general, you are a fan of certain locations so you would focus on those updates. Still, I think my game was like 250GB in total. That's not including the marketplace, which has individual assets for pretty much anything, including ground units. People keep forgetting, this isnt a game like Gran Turismo is. We are talking about real-time flight durations. Most fans are in cockpit view only. Sure you can just hop into a cesna in third person and view the city scapes but that gets old fast.
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8BiTw0LF
Consoomer
BlazeEcho97
Neo Member
Another port that almost no use pro advantages beside little higher resolution,no higher shadows,no rt, no 60fps
Ellis
Member
Microsoft will prioritize their best source of sales for their games. Those sources are PC and PS5. NOT Xbox hardware.
They don't care about the few remaining Xbox owners that have a breakdown if a game runs better on PS5.
In this case. It seems like Xbox is still the better version anyway. We don't know exactly why, but we do know that there's zero chance it was made worse on purpose.
Microsoft now caters to platforms that will make them serious money, and Xbox is no longer that platform.
PeteBull
Member
All 3 consoles struggling to go above 30fps even in perf mode, and ppl thinking next gen gonna get delayed lool. We getting both new xbox and ps6 by holidays 2027 4sure, they might be pricey but that doesnt matter, ppl that buy hardware at launch arent price sensitive anyways, that 999$ discless ps6 gonna be flying of the shelves first 2 years anyways.
Bojji
Member
Adding RT shadows would make CPU struggle more in already CPU limited game.
Xtib81
Member
That's the kind of difference you don't notice from your couch.. 800€ for a resolution bump is rough.I could agree but still I chuckle reading a boost from 1440p to 1800p with only 40% of more gpu raw power is considered another "mid" pro version.
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Topher
Identifies as young
$200 difference. Not that different in paying more for a higher grade GPU.
kevboard
Member
well, yeah, but that's the entire premise of the PS5 Pro. it's barely a jump from the base console, so that's essentially all you can realistically expect.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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Xtib81
Member
500€ vs 800€. That's a pretty significant price difference for very small visual differences. What's worse is that Pssr is often broken.. Hopefully, PSSR2 will take the PS5 pro to the next level next year.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Here it is $550 vs $750 regular MSRP. Also gotta account for the extra terabyte SSD. I've gone back and forth with whether mine was worth it but overall, I think it is. Yeah, definitely hope they can improve PSSR though. Probably should think up a new name. lol
Bojji
Member
Here it is $550 vs $750 regular MSRP. Also gotta account for the extra terabyte SSD. I've gone back and forth with whether mine was worth it but overall, I think it is. Yeah, definitely hope they can improve PSSR though. Probably should think up a new name. lol
Technically it's 500 vs. 750 (DE vs. DE). But yeah, for that +250 there is more than 2x storage increase + more power.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Technically it's 500 vs. 750 (DE vs. DE). But yeah, for that +250 there is more than 2x storage increase + more power.
Bojji
Member
Topher
Identifies as young
Technically it's 500 vs. 750 (DE vs. DE). But yeah, for that +250 there is more than 2x storage increase + more power.
Still think they should have offered a 1 TB version for less. Got greedy.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Come on man.... Don't do this. AI makes sense in moments like this thread.
Bojji
Member
That 500$ DE PS5 with castrated storage makes much less sense than 550$ 1TB disc version (much cheaper games + ability to sell). Nothing beats value of launch DE PS5.
I will never understood comment like this. You don't have to look to the price but to the perfomance; a boost from 1440p to 1800p with just of 40% of more raw power it's not that meaningless (especially when higher native resolution it's not exactly the target of the machine specs) 800 bucks is for the actual industry component shitty situation and Sony it's not immune to that.
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The Xbox 2tb is more expensive than the Pro and give only more space.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I'm out on vacation at the moment otherwise would have done my patented * summary.
* make the Xbox versions look better.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
ToadMan
Member
I doubt if the devs give a damn about making Xbox look better at this point
It's probably just a challenge that they didn't feel was worth the effort or Sony might not allow 480GB to be used of it's storage for one game.
I remember this going by a few years back (summarised by GPT btw)
"However, there have been reports from specific developers (notably for the game Train Sim World) of a technical limitation within the PS5's system software that limits the amount of add-on content a single game can "mount" or access simultaneously to approximately 64 GB. The game developers have implemented workarounds, such as having players selectively download content or "hot-mount" different components as needed"
So perhaps that limit is still out there somewhere. I don't think Sony considered and / or wanted a minimal base install augmented by a ton of large DLC type experience.
That was a few years ago though, I'd have expected Sony to have changed the backend but maybe not...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
CoD and GTAO shows this not to be the case. Game file size grows and grows and grows well beyond 100-150GB+
This game can allow for downloadable airport/landmark data in the same way, since they're optional chunks on both PC/Xbox.
I believe it might have something to do with the way data needs to be compiled for PS5's storage & they're probably not going to recompile TB's of data for PS5 or maybe they will but just need more time. Was it available at launch for Xbox Series?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think originally it was stream only and the feature was added later on.
kevboard
Member
the file download happens internally in the game. my bet is that that is the issue.
ToadMan
Member
The problem was related to the mounted data size - not the straight install size.
CoD isn't mounting 64Gb+ for an individual map...
Not sure about GTAO - but that was a last gen game so doubtful on that too.
EDIT : Oh and you're right the game can be split into 64Gb chunks for mounting dynamically. But that would need a decent amount of effort to engineer.
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ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
So DF really just put two PS5 towers and a plane on a thumbnail. Marvelous.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
But you can piecemeal which packs you want up to 480GB or so on PC or console currently.
kevboard
Member
yes, again, in-game.
this means the system has to dynamically adjust the allocated install size, and do so while running.
this is probably something the PS5 can not do. meaning, Microsoft's options were (1) to necessitate 480GB of space to be taken up at all times, or (2) to keep install size small and not allow the file downloads.
the Xbox is essentially already a Windows machine, with very Windows like behaviour and is fully controlled by Microsoft, so they can just allow for this stuff to happen on their system if they want. even if they didn't support of previously.
but asking Sony to change their file management system is probably not in the cards.
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Lagspike_exe
Member
What? PS5 had the feature where you download a % of data, start playing, while the rest downloads and installs in the background since day 1. This is no different than what MFS is doing with streaming.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
How is that any different than choosing any piece of DLC to install or not install, or choosing if you want to install single player or multiplayer or both. Or various large language packs or not?
The airport data is a set size, you choose it like any DLC.
It has "rolling cache" already that dynamically adjusts and dumps. Having selected set pack sizes aren't dynamic, but locally stored DLC.
ToadMan
Member
I agree - I just think it's not something they've built yet, so they'll need to create that ability in the engine.
For the Train Sim game - a small relatively inexperienced developer - it took them quite a while to manage this issue.
Dovetail Games official comment on the problem
As many of you are no doubt aware, there is an issue on Playstation 5 where the maximum amount of DLC that can be used at one time is limited to 64GB following a recent PS5 system update.
What players experience with this is that while they have all their DLC downloaded correctly it doesn't all show up in the game and it is unclear to them why that is. The reason is that once the game has completed loading 64Gb of DLC the console won't let it use any further add-ons, so it doesn't get loaded.
The total amount of DLC available for Train Sim World 2 far exceeds 64gb so for many of you it's highly likely you will experience missing content if you have larger collections.
Currently players can work around this issue by uninstalling any add-ons that they don't want to use at the moment and this will allow the console to show the add-ons you do want to use, however this is a far from ideal solution and does require quite a lot of re-downloading if you want to later use the add-ons you removed, so this is extremely inconvenient.
Don't other games work at over 110GB though? Why is it different for Train Sim World 2?
On the Playstation 5, the core game is not limited at all and can be as big as we like. It's specifically the DLC add-ons however that experience this limit. Our core game is roughly 20GB give or take at the moment. Many other larger games out there that are more like 100GB or larger put the add-ons in the core package and then turn it on and off. This is valid for those games because even if you don't own an outfit or something, you still want to be able to see others that do in a multiplayer game, for example.
We have tried some experiments with moving large quantities of the add-ons into the core area along the same lines, however this didn't work the way we had hoped and as such we abandoned going any further with that research. In addition, this would have meant everyone was forced to download and store much bigger core files regardless of whether you owned the add-on that was sitting on your console or not, which didn't feel like a good solution anyway.
Our Solution
In the internal depths of how consoles work, there is actually a separation between when something is downloaded to the console and when it's available to the game. This process is called "mounting" the content, and it's here that the limit is actually in place – you can have as much downloaded as you like, but you can only mount up to 64GB.
Currently our game automatically mounts everything it finds because this has always been perfectly adequate and ensures you always have immediate access to everything you have installed, so for our solution going forwards we are aiming to decouple this and make the game able to be smarter about what it "mounts".
What does mounting do?
If you imagine all of your add-ons are boxes, mounting opens the box (which makes it available to the game) and the limit on the PlayStation 5 is essentially "How many boxes can you have open"
By default the game currently tries to open every box, what we are looking at doing is making it only mount the add-ons for the route you are using.
If you select GWE for example, it will only open the box for the GWE route and related add-ons we think are appropriate. The most likely things you are going to want on that route will be mounted. By default you can expect that all relevant substitution and layers will work transparently, it'll all be mounted automatically.
Implementation: Step 1
Step one of this update will be purely about getting the underlying issue resolved and getting the selective auto mounting done based on your route selection, so that when you get the menu list up on the screen you select the route and then it will do the mounting of the add-ons.
Mounting is done almost instantly and won't add an unreasonable amount of time to load times.
Once Step 1 is in complete, you would be able to access all your add-ons without needing to do any reinstalls etc, however because unrelated add-ons won't be getting mounted by default it does mean that some of the "off the rails" examples such as a GP38-2 on Bakerloo line wouldn't be available, since if you select Bakerloo line it won't know you want to also mount the GP38-2. More expected examples such as livery substitutions or add-ons needed for layers however would be automatically made available. Livery designer also won't be able to let you reskin anything that isn't mounted (though you wouldn't lose any liveries if it's unmounted as those are stored elsewhere).
Implementation: Step 2
Step two brings the ability to use a new settings screen so you can manually mount or unmount anything you like beyond what is automatically selected. We are looking at including something like a thermometer bar so you can keep track of how much of your 64GB limit you've used up, allowing you to keep adding more and know exactly where you're at, or indeed to remove any add-ons you don't want made available and therefore keep your menus clear and focused on what's important to you right now.
Conclusion
We are currently developing the core work for these changes and part of that will also include evaluating when the best time to launch the updates are, we may launch them in two updates or perhaps in a single update. It will come down to how well the solution works and how our testing goes given that this can have quite a fundamental impact on the game and how it loads your add-ons.
We are also investigating whether this is a good update to bring to other consoles (which also use this concept of mounting add-ons) as there's potentially memory savings and so forth to be had that might be of particular benefit to the Xbox One and PS4 consoles. This is something that we will be investigating once we have resolved the immediate priority of the difficulties experienced by Playstation 5 players.
We fully understand the impact this issue is having on our players and are treating it as a high priority to get a resolution. We hope that the above outlines our understanding of it and what we plan to do to resolve it going forwards.
We will of course be providing more updates as development continues and will provide more detailed explanations of the system and demonstrations once we have it in-game so that you'll be clear how to use it and get the best from it easily.
What players experience with this is that while they have all their DLC downloaded correctly it doesn't all show up in the game and it is unclear to them why that is. The reason is that once the game has completed loading 64Gb of DLC the console won't let it use any further add-ons, so it doesn't get loaded.
The total amount of DLC available for Train Sim World 2 far exceeds 64gb so for many of you it's highly likely you will experience missing content if you have larger collections.
Currently players can work around this issue by uninstalling any add-ons that they don't want to use at the moment and this will allow the console to show the add-ons you do want to use, however this is a far from ideal solution and does require quite a lot of re-downloading if you want to later use the add-ons you removed, so this is extremely inconvenient.
Don't other games work at over 110GB though? Why is it different for Train Sim World 2?
On the Playstation 5, the core game is not limited at all and can be as big as we like. It's specifically the DLC add-ons however that experience this limit. Our core game is roughly 20GB give or take at the moment. Many other larger games out there that are more like 100GB or larger put the add-ons in the core package and then turn it on and off. This is valid for those games because even if you don't own an outfit or something, you still want to be able to see others that do in a multiplayer game, for example.
We have tried some experiments with moving large quantities of the add-ons into the core area along the same lines, however this didn't work the way we had hoped and as such we abandoned going any further with that research. In addition, this would have meant everyone was forced to download and store much bigger core files regardless of whether you owned the add-on that was sitting on your console or not, which didn't feel like a good solution anyway.
Our Solution
In the internal depths of how consoles work, there is actually a separation between when something is downloaded to the console and when it's available to the game. This process is called "mounting" the content, and it's here that the limit is actually in place – you can have as much downloaded as you like, but you can only mount up to 64GB.
Currently our game automatically mounts everything it finds because this has always been perfectly adequate and ensures you always have immediate access to everything you have installed, so for our solution going forwards we are aiming to decouple this and make the game able to be smarter about what it "mounts".
What does mounting do?
If you imagine all of your add-ons are boxes, mounting opens the box (which makes it available to the game) and the limit on the PlayStation 5 is essentially "How many boxes can you have open"
By default the game currently tries to open every box, what we are looking at doing is making it only mount the add-ons for the route you are using.
If you select GWE for example, it will only open the box for the GWE route and related add-ons we think are appropriate. The most likely things you are going to want on that route will be mounted. By default you can expect that all relevant substitution and layers will work transparently, it'll all be mounted automatically.
Implementation: Step 1
Step one of this update will be purely about getting the underlying issue resolved and getting the selective auto mounting done based on your route selection, so that when you get the menu list up on the screen you select the route and then it will do the mounting of the add-ons.
Mounting is done almost instantly and won't add an unreasonable amount of time to load times.
Once Step 1 is in complete, you would be able to access all your add-ons without needing to do any reinstalls etc, however because unrelated add-ons won't be getting mounted by default it does mean that some of the "off the rails" examples such as a GP38-2 on Bakerloo line wouldn't be available, since if you select Bakerloo line it won't know you want to also mount the GP38-2. More expected examples such as livery substitutions or add-ons needed for layers however would be automatically made available. Livery designer also won't be able to let you reskin anything that isn't mounted (though you wouldn't lose any liveries if it's unmounted as those are stored elsewhere).
Implementation: Step 2
Step two brings the ability to use a new settings screen so you can manually mount or unmount anything you like beyond what is automatically selected. We are looking at including something like a thermometer bar so you can keep track of how much of your 64GB limit you've used up, allowing you to keep adding more and know exactly where you're at, or indeed to remove any add-ons you don't want made available and therefore keep your menus clear and focused on what's important to you right now.
Conclusion
We are currently developing the core work for these changes and part of that will also include evaluating when the best time to launch the updates are, we may launch them in two updates or perhaps in a single update. It will come down to how well the solution works and how our testing goes given that this can have quite a fundamental impact on the game and how it loads your add-ons.
We are also investigating whether this is a good update to bring to other consoles (which also use this concept of mounting add-ons) as there's potentially memory savings and so forth to be had that might be of particular benefit to the Xbox One and PS4 consoles. This is something that we will be investigating once we have resolved the immediate priority of the difficulties experienced by Playstation 5 players.
We fully understand the impact this issue is having on our players and are treating it as a high priority to get a resolution. We hope that the above outlines our understanding of it and what we plan to do to resolve it going forwards.
We will of course be providing more updates as development continues and will provide more detailed explanations of the system and demonstrations once we have it in-game so that you'll be clear how to use it and get the best from it easily.
I believe it is fixed now for Train Sim - after they added some management to the way the PS5 loads extra data, but ultimately it sounds like a use-case Sony didn't envisage - games with a massive amount of add on data to be accessed from a relatively small base game engine. I guess they could roll all that data into the MSFS core game - but then its a 500Gb download for everyone.
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kevboard
Member
yes there is. the installer already allocates the final game size.
again, if Microsoft wanted to do that they would need to allocate 480GB.
currently it allocates around 50GB. it doesn't actually install 50GB of data, it installs like 10GB. the rest of the allocated space is then used to dynamically stream in and save/swap out data on the fly.
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Xtib81
Member
I'm judging what I'm seeing. Without side by side comparaisons, you can hardly tell the difference between the base PS5 version and the pro version. Some games really take advantage of the pro but they're too rare. Cerny lied when he said that we would have fidelity + performance in one mode.
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Bernardougf
Member
Yeah.. but with that 200+ PC gpu you can toggle the preferences at your will ... here you are stuck with what the devs give you .. so the value is not the same...specially with the lower install base not offering incentives for greater optimizations, plus the broken pssr.
For me it was definitely not worth it until now...but If Im able to extend the usage of the ps5pro well into next gen and pssr2 delivers ... my opinion might change.
I see. Another one who haven't payed attention to what Cerny really claimed and complaining about nonsense. Blurred the line between fidelity and performance of the ps5 base doesn't mean automatically fidelity+perfomance mode together. Anyway tell 1800p boost from 1440p is just visible with a side by side comparison it's really something
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The level of ignorance who surround the PSSR it's really something. I understood if you don't find the ps5 pro worth it but most the critics I read seems just a lot of absurd preconceptions based on net chats no offence.
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Bernardougf
Member
You keep the good battle sir ... someone has to do it
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It's you which make it appears as a stupid battle, I just express my opinion sir. Already told you I respect if someone find his price not worth it. I just told you most of the people chats around PSSR are very superficial.
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Bernardougf
Member
You go pride warrior