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DOA4 >>>>> SC3

Shinobi said:
vo566.jpg
> all fighters.
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I was thinking that EXACT samE thing...but I've beaten that over the head too many times in too many forums. So let's try and keep this discussion on topic. And I don't need to go into another essay of how VO is the greatest combat game on the planet. :lol

I love DOA4 for what it is, and with the few scattered 3D fighting games that you can play online, I thinks this is in the top tier. Everything else is subject to personal opinion.
 
Perfectly agreed, SC3 is rubbish! I'm still amazed at all the raving reviews the media gave it (IGN, 1up, I'm looking at you). That's what happens when you get people who don't understand fighting games to review them.
 
SnowWolf said:
Perfectly agreed, SC3 is rubbish! I'm still amazed at all the raving reviews the media gave it (IGN, 1up, I'm looking at you). That's what happens when you get people who don't understand fighting games to review them.
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Yeah, Tekken fans.
 
Kunai said:
I don't think so :D , Compare it to all the CG movies in the game and youÂ’ll see the difference in the video quality; they all have a grainy look (ending movies), while the VI is in the same resolution/quality as the in game stuff.
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Having a different visual quality proves nothing. It's prerendered, period. I too was impressed that they made it 60fps as I'm sure that takes up much more room on the disc. Now, what I would like to know is if the 30fps endings are in HD resolution or not. I've found it really hard to distinguish HD from nonHD on film stuff.

Mann
 
I'll take VF4:Evo and Soul Calibur any day over any fighters.

One is the most depth in a fighting game ever....the other is the most fluid fun to play.
 
I'm starting to think that DoA4 online play's smoothness is contingent on how fat your upload pipes are.
 
Hmm i've played SC3 ...didnt really notice much different about the fighting mechanics from SC2 which i thought was great. What exactly happened that made the game so cheap in three, ive only really played against my brother and cousin, never delved into the other modes yet. Far as i can tell all the parry moves, impacts, throw blocking , are still in the game. Still havent found the assasin though he better be in the game or i totally agree :( . Oh and SC on DC is indeed better than all the doa's :P.
 
I'm guessing this thread was made because quite afew people dont think DOA4 is that great as its made out to be and the thread starter felt a little insecure about that little fact.

DonasaurusRex said:
Hmm i've played SC3 ...didnt really notice much different about the fighting mechanics from SC2 which i thought was great. What exactly happened that made the game so cheap in three,
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It went PS2 exclusive ;)
 
Mmmmm, SC3. The VC complaint is totally blown out of proportion. DOA4 is simplistic albeit incredibly fun toss with none of the style variations you find in VF4 or SC3 characters. Find out which moves stagger and MASH, maybe end with a throw. The only really interesting part of the game is watching an online player long enough to see which combos he favors, then spamming out the corresponding counters.
 
DonasaurusRex said:
What exactly happened that made the game so cheap in three, ive only really played against my brother and cousin, never delved into the other modes yet.
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The computer AI was very cheap and since the game wasn't online, the majority of the complainers had no one to play with except the computer. And since their skill level wasn't that great and the game didn't simply just roll over and let them rape it, it leads to threads like this.
 
slade said:
The computer AI was very cheap and since the game wasn't online, the majority of the complainers had no one to play with except the computer. And since their skill level wasn't that great and the game didn't simply just roll over and let them rape it, it leads to threads like this.
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The thread starter plays on a national/international level. Nice try though :lol
 
The only really interesting part of the game is watching an online player long enough to see which combos he favors, then spamming out the corresponding counters.
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That never works against anyone halfway decent.
 
Reno said:
b. For all the knocks on it, at least DOA4 isn't the buggy piece of shit that SC3 has become. Say what you will about the system decisions in DOA, but you're not going to find stupid ass crap like VC and random clashes in it.
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SC3 is no more buggy than SC2. VC = 2G, and I think most people agree SC2 was a great game. So unless you're calling SC2 a buggy POS too, this is shaky reasoning.
 
i bet everyone who thinks SC3 is great don't understand anything Reno mentioned about clashing and the VC... which i guess is understandable, that's sort of the target audience SC3 appears to be made for, people who don't know any better...
 
I read the GI forums regularly, buttwheat, and I do indeed know what the VC hullaballoo is about. Eggo is a longtime SC player, and I don't doubt his expertise, either.
 
Both Soul Calibur 3 and Dead or Alive 3/4 have flaws.

Dead or Alive's are more or less just character imbalance. I'm a pretty good Bayman player, and I'll still end up getting owned by a really good Zack player. There's characters that simply have too short of a delay after key moves to be fair against slower players which isn't totally fair in a game where counters are so critical to gameplay. Then you have characters like Ayane who are fast as hell, but 70 percent of her comboable moves all attack mid or high, which makes it much easier to counter her. Opinionwise, I'll always have a problem with DOA, because it drives me nuts that counters are THROWS, not counters. If an opponent kicks me, a counter should deflect the kick, sidestep the kick, or grab and hold the kick. It shouldn't have me grabbing the kicker's leg, kicking their other foot out from under them, then falling onto them and doing a neck snap. Dead or Alive 1 didn't do this, and its bothered me ever since then.

Soul Calibur also has character imbalances as well, but SC3 just... made it more glaring. With the overpowered guard cancels (or whatever word they're calling it), some characters like Sophitia and Yoshimitsu can just destroy you if you're caught off guard. I don't understand what Namco was doing when they went from SC2 to SC3, or why they thought that SC2 was needing such huge changes (did taki REALLY need an infinite kick to roll chain?). But for every character that they decided to give more power or variety to (Siegfried, Yoshi), they neuter others (Mitsurugi, Asteroth).
 
To be quite honest I was seriously disappointed with both Soul Calibur 3 AND Dead or Alive 4. But I was slightly less disappointed with Soul Calibur 3.

DOA4 focuses too much on aggression. If you want to win you HAVE to play offense. The game basically boils down to "whoever lands the first move wins". Defense isn't really an option any more because there are so many variations to the strings and the strings come out so fast that it is very difficult, if not damn near impossible in some cases, to mount any kind of an effective defense. Plus the single player AI was even cheaper than SC3. The online mode is a good idea but I had to stop playing it because of the lag. It was very frustrating losing matches because of it.
 
Given how much stock Namco risked on single-player charades in SC3, it turned out an incredulous failure. The versus game remains noteable, but for working stiffs that spend more time out of the house on the weekends, it's an antiquity in today's climate. I do shrivel up in envy watching work hour duels on the 1up show.
 
Baron Aloha said:
To be quite honest I was seriously disappointed with both Soul Calibur 3 AND Dead or Alive 4. But I was slightly less disappointed with Soul Calibur 3.

DOA4 focuses too much on aggression. If you want to win you HAVE to play offense. Plus the single player AI was even cheaper than SC3. The online mode is a good idea but I had to stop playing it because of the lag. It was very frustrating losing matches because of it.
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...but... that's been DOA's game focus since Dead or Alive 2, mang. Even the bigger guys. MAYBE Bayman or Leifang can be played primarily as defensive characters, but that's the exception, not the norm.
 
mr jones said:
...but... that's been DOA's game focus since Dead or Alive 2, mang. Even the bigger guys. MAYBE Bayman or Leifang can be played primarily as defensive characters, but that's the exception, not the norm.
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Its not just about playing defensively. Its about being able to defend/block moves, period.

It was much easier to block strings in DOA, DOA2, and DOA3 than it is in DOA4. They added a lot of new string variations and increased the speed. If someone is right on top of you in DOA4 you are pretty much f'ed. At least the previous DOA games gave you a chance to recover.
 
I was thinking that EXACT samE thing...but I've beaten that over the head too many times in too many forums. So let's try and keep this discussion on topic. And I don't need to go into another essay of how VO is the greatest combat game on the planet.
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VOOT honestly might be the greatest game ever. It only needs a good guide or something to stop new players from dash-attacking nonstop. Buuuut... As much as I love it (to death death death, don't get me started), I think Third Strike might be the overall best fighting game ever. Ask me in a few years.

VF4 is still awesome, though. Not as much, but it is.
 
Well I am not here to bash either one of the games, I got Dead or Alive 4 recently and I think its the cheapest most frustrating game so far in DOA series. Alpha 152 is the cheapest boss next to Tekken 5 boss.
 
Eggo: That's totally untrue, SC3 is WORSE than SC2 in terms of bugs. At least SC2 doesn't have corrupted save problems. The amount of stuff found in SC3 is much more than SC2, given that the game got a console release first. SC2's stuff didn't get immediate discovered due to its arcade release. And you're saying that VC = 2G? That's BS. That shit is WORSE than 2G by far, and it's used in many more situations. I did say in an earlier post that I don't think it's a TERRIBLE glitch, but considering that it supposedly appeared due to Namco trying to fix another bug in SC2 (that's the rumour that went on for a while), that just screams sloppy design to me.

On the other hand, Tecmo hasn't had such problems, god knows why though. I chalk it up to efficient design and coding.

Drinky: Namco has released three god damn versions of SC3 already, not including the arcade release. That's going to be the FOURTH revision to the game, and the only one that's being publicly announced as being different. I don't understand how SC fanboys can go around, trying to defend this idiocy. The US version came first, then the PAL came out with several changes, then the JPN version came out with OTHER changes. It's ridiculous! To be fair, Tecmo also pulled this shit with DOA (EUR/JPN DOA3 had about 50 more moves and way more costumes than the US version) and it didn't sit well with me either. For single player games I don't mind it, but when it comes to games that are competitive in nature, it's annoying. It's like having Madden JPN with half of the plays of the US version.

There's a whole list of changes from NTSC-U to PAL to NTSC-J here: http://soulcalibur.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28244

Oh, and Deg, you're an idiot. This shit has nothing to do with platform loyalties. The fact is that this game is a buggy piece of crap, and yet no one criticizes Namco for doing so. But shit, Tecmo releases a game that's not only solid, but (for now, knock on wood) glitch/exploit free and gets no respect. I've already criticized DOA for not standing up to VF, but like I've said many times, at least it's not the shitfest that's SC3. You've been championing SC3 for far too long without backing up any of your shit talk, so either give some solid arguments or STFU.
 
I'm not particularly familiar with SC3. What made it such a bad game?

The only aspects I'm familiar with are the music and visuals. The soundtrack is the best in the series as are the visuals...but those do not matter in the long run, obviously.

I've only briefly touched the game, and I noticed some major changes, but I'm uncertain as to what kind of impact they had on the game as a whole.

Is it actually a bad game...or is it simply unbalanced and unrefined, making for a poor tourney game or something?
 
Baron Aloha said:
Its not just about playing defensively. Its about being able to defend/block moves, period.

It was much easier to block strings in DOA, DOA2, and DOA3 than it is in DOA4. They added a lot of new string variations and increased the speed. If someone is right on top of you in DOA4 you are pretty much f'ed. At least the previous DOA games gave you a chance to recover.
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can you please PM me some good techniques on how to counter attacks in DOA4, I can't seem to get my grip on it, once in a while I counter the attacks but I suck at counters, if I can get a better grip I will definietly enjoy the game more.
 
Baron Aloha said:
If someone is right on top of you in DOA4 you are pretty much f'ed. .
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That is exactly how I feel in #4. I think more fighting games need to allow the player to gain space between each other with a simple jump back move and such. The Ninja's in DOA4 have it, but the rest of the roster has nothing. Just give a spacing, rollback, or a parry push to everybody.
 
Drinky: And it's publically known, right? That's a hell of a lot better than what Namco pulled with SC2/SC3. Yeah, they changed both games without letting anyone know. Gamers had to find that stuff out themselves. I realize that DOA4 right now is not 100%, since I do play it online often and I do have some lag problems at times, but even without patching, the game is solid. A hell of a lot better than what SC3 had turned out to be. Soul Calibur is easily my favourite series ever, which is why I'm overly critical of it. I really hate what it's become, and shit, I only wish that they had taken Tecmo's lead and actually improved stuff pertaining to Versus instead of superfluous single player crap.
 
Reno said:
Eggo: That's totally untrue, SC3 is WORSE than SC2 in terms of bugs. At least SC2 doesn't have corrupted save problems. The amount of stuff found in SC3 is much more than SC2, given that the game got a console release first. SC2's stuff didn't get immediate discovered due to its arcade release. And you're saying that VC = 2G? That's BS. That shit is WORSE than 2G by far, and it's used in many more situations. I did say in an earlier post that I don't think it's a TERRIBLE glitch, but considering that it supposedly appeared due to Namco trying to fix another bug in SC2 (that's the rumour that went on for a while), that just screams sloppy design to me.

On the other hand, Tecmo hasn't had such problems, god knows why though. I chalk it up to efficient design and coding.
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OK, the corrupted save thing, sure... that's a horrible bug that should have been caught. But in terms of game balance-related bugs like 2G/VC, it's basically the same. I don't see VC being any worse than step guard with 2G. So characters have high damage back turned throws... I've yet to see a backturned throw alter a tourney match. Sets and Zas are stronger because of VC, but it makes them better characters, not game-breaking super chars winning all the tournaments because of this game-breaking glitch. Other than TieTYT's super Zas, you don't really see Sets and Zas winning tourneys... so what is so terrible about this bug?

From what I played of DOA4, the online had problems. Rooms with more than 6 players lagged to the point of unplayable. Then there's that bug where the camera locks for over a minute while you have to wait it out and hope people don't leave the game. Did they ever end up patching that, because that was really annoying. DOA4 is far from flawless.
 
I won't disagree that SC3's single-player content was crap-in-a-jar, but I also feel that SC3's mechanics are lightyears more complex then DoA4's brutally simple ones -- there's no real 3D positioning, most characters really only vary in terms of combo strings and lack any unique mechanics like an Ivy or Setsuka, and the game emphasizes momentum to an almost stupid degree. DoA4's simplicity works in its favor as an online game, but it's also an incredibly sterile experience.
 
Defense is VERY critical in DOA4, it's what keeps you out of the critical stun game...

many characters can be played VERY well defensively, and i'm not just talking about the grapplers or Lei-Fang/Bayman, i'm talking about Ein, Brad, Nicole, Ayane, Zack and Gen-Fu...

it's not just about blocking, you also have to know when you can use low jabs and high/low crushes against strings...
 
DonasaurusRex said:
Err wtf is 2G and VC sorry for my ignorance, what website uses these conventions?
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2G is a bug in SC2 which let you block when you shouldn't be able to. It lessened the effectiveness of parries and made some moves safer than they should have been. VC in SC3 is Virtual Cancel - similar motion (hold G, tap down down)... it lets you cancel moves like throws and perform unnatural combos. Apparently, when Namco fixed the 2G bug for SC3, it introduced this new bug, VC, which is probably related to the old 2G bug.

Here's a link to the SC3 newbie silencer thread on the soul calibur forums... it helps with the notation.

http://www.soulcalibur.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26574

There should be a sticked thread on the forums somewhere about VC if you want to read up on it, but I'm too lazy to find it.
 
It's not like SC3 is all that great. Unbalanced/broken garbage is what SC3 amounts to at the tournament level (if you can call it that...).

LOL @ 2G.
 
Drinky Crow said:
I won't disagree that SC3's single-player content was crap-in-a-jar, but I also feel that SC3's mechanics are lightyears more complex then DoA4's brutally simple ones -- there's no real 3D positioning, most characters really only vary in terms of combo strings and lack any unique mechanics like an Ivy or Setsuka, and the game emphasizes momentum to an almost stupid degree. DoA4's simplicity works in its favor as an online game, but it's also an incredibly sterile experience.
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As noted, I've yet to really give SC3 much of a go, but I'd assume that my feelings would be similar. DOA4 is just too simplistic for its own good.

This is unrelated to the supposed depths buried deep within something like VF where users unfamiliar with the game will claim other fighters a disappointment for not offering what they never utilized anyways. DOA4 quickly becomes repetitive and dull, which results in a very short lived experience that I could only stomach in small doses. If the "surface" game is unable to provide an enjoyable, varied experience, I'll never find it worth mastering. The gameplay systems seem rather solid and polished, but that system is far too closed.

Of course, in terms of tournament play, solidity is extremely important and it seems that SC3 would be disqualified for that very reason. That doesn't mean DOA4 is going to be more enjoyable, however. It's like those folks working on mastering, of all things, Painkiller. Why anyone would want to waste months of their life trying to become the world champion Painkiller warrior is beyond me. DOA4 gives me those same vibes...
 
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