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[Oichi]

I don't see VC being any worse than step guard with 2G. So characters have high damage back turned throws... I've yet to see a backturned throw alter a tourney match. Sets and Zas are stronger because of VC, but it makes them better characters, not game-breaking super chars winning all the tournaments because of this game-breaking glitch. Other than TieTYT's super Zas, you don't really see Sets and Zas winning tourneys... so what is so terrible about this bug?

Dude VC is a big problem, enough that people were talking right from the getgo on how to ban the thing. That issue never, ever popped up in SC2 with G2. That's how serious it is. VC isn't just 2G, it's an evolved version with several different properties. Shit, in SC2, 2G let you block instantly after you got GI'd. In SC3, it gives you an ADVANTAGE. How is that not "any worse"? Shit, Xianghua can throw out 33B on me, and if I block it, I can't counterattack because my character (Astaroth) doesn't have anything effective that will hit 100% of the time, and I can't GI back because what's the point? There's absolutely no guaranteed mix-up with him. The other person can easily VC me and STILL be on the advantage, and I can't do shit. Essentially, whenever he throws out that move, I'm totally screwed because if I block it, he's on the advantage, and if I GI it, he's still on the advantage.

Essentially VC has the ability to render any and all GI situations useless because of this. Just because it hasn't been a huge factor yet doesn't mean it won't be in the future. This game is only 4~5 months old right now. I'll guarantee come Evo 2006, it's going to be something that will win matches.

Drinky: You're not giving DOA4 enough credit, because it has everything you claim it doesn't. There are tons of characters that have special movements/stances. I think over half the cast has a special stance/movement to them. Plus, all the walls and ledges are just as painful in SC3 as they are in DOA4.

 

[Eggo]

Dude VC is a big problem, enough that people were talking right from the getgo on how to ban the thing. That issue never, ever popped up in SC2 with G2. That's how serious it is. VC isn't just 2G, it's an evolved version with several different properties. Shit, in SC2, 2G let you block instantly after you got GI'd. In SC3, it gives you an ADVANTAGE. How is that not "any worse"? Shit, Xianghua can throw out 33B on me, and if I block it, I can't counterattack because my character (Astaroth) doesn't have anything effective that will hit 100% of the time, and I can't GI back because what's the point? There's absolutely no guaranteed mix-up with him. The other person can easily VC me and STILL be on the advantage, and I can't do shit. Essentially, whenever he throws out that move, I'm totally screwed because if I block it, he's on the advantage, and if I GI it, he's still on the advantage.

Essentially VC has the ability to render any and all GI situations useless because of this. Just because it hasn't been a huge factor yet doesn't mean it won't be in the future. This game is only 4~5 months old right now. I'll guarantee come Evo 2006, it's going to be something that will win matches.

Drinky: You're not giving DOA4 enough credit, because it has everything you claim it doesn't. There are tons of characters that have special movements/stances. I think over half the cast has a special stance/movement to them. Plus, all the walls and ledges are just as painful in SC3 as they are in DOA4.

All the talk of VC giving you advantage all the time after GI is just that... talk. I tried to abuse it myself by buffering 22 into my moves as I was attacking, and I found it messed up my game considerably because it took me out of the flow of what I was doing. I don't think you can react fast enough to an unexpected GI to G22 on reaction and gain any significant advantage. If you could, people would be abusing the hell out of it and complaining on the message boards about it affecting tournament matches. I think the VC thing is blown out of proportion. It's like one guy yelled fire, and then the Internet just fanned the flames till it became this big shitstorm which is totally unwarranted.

As for your particular example with X... I hate that bitch. If anything, she is what's broken with the Soul Calibur series, not VC. She was way too good in SC2, and I think she's just as good in SC3. She's safe after 90% of her moves and is super fast, plus she has that stupid move (66A+B is it?) that snuffs everything which can also be cancelled. Fixed in EU, I know, but that doesn't help us Americans any.

 

[mr jones]

Defense is VERY critical in DOA4, it's what keeps you out of the critical stun game...

many characters can be played VERY well defensively, and i'm not just talking about the grapplers or Lei-Fang/Bayman, i'm talking about Ein, Brad, Nicole, Ayane, Zack and Gen-Fu...

it's not just about blocking, you also have to know when you can use low jabs and high/low crushes against strings...

Eh, I really can't argue either way, because I haven't played enough of Dead or Alive 4 to say otherwise. I forgot about Gen-fu, who would also make for a good defensive playstyle.

I'd crush you if you tried to play Ayane as a defensive character - especially against a fairly quick grappler like Tina or Bayman. Characters like Zack and Jann Lee are so damn fast that they can be played however. The thing is that their speed makes them more likely to be used offensively. That's just how they're usually played.

I don't know about the new folks like Nicole.

I'm not going to say too much more because again, I haven't played enough of Dead or Alive 4 to give an objective opinion. I'll always feel that against 2 skilled players, DOA becomes a game of paper-rock-scissors, I don't like how counters are throws, and sidestepping is almost useless.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Eh, I really can't argue either way, because I haven't played enough of Dead or Alive 4 to say otherwise. I forgot about Gen-fu, who would also make for a good defensive playstyle.

I'd crush you if you tried to play Ayane as a defensive character - especially against a fairly quick grappler like Tina or Bayman. Characters like Zack and Jann Lee are so damn fast that they can be played however. The thing is that their speed makes them more likely to be used offensively. That's just how they're usually played.

I don't know about the new folks like Nicole.

I'm not going to say too much more because again, I haven't played enough of Dead or Alive 4 to give an objective opinion. I'll always feel that against 2 skilled players, DOA becomes a game of paper-rock-scissors, I don't like how counters are throws, and sidestepping is almost useless.

@ bold

i'm confused as t how you (a) don't like that most counters give guaranteed damage and (b) don't like the DOA style sidestepping...

if you know what's coming and want to avoid getting hit, DH it...

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

DOA is garbage!!!!!!

SC3 on its worst day is better than DOA4.

My opinion. Maybe time will change this, probably not.

 

[mr jones]

All the talk of VC giving you advantage all the time after GI is just that... talk. I tried to abuse it myself by buffering 22 into my moves as I was attacking, and I found it messed up my game considerably because it took me out of the flow of what I was doing. I don't think you can react fast enough to an unexpected GI to G22 on reaction and gain any significant advantage. If you could, people would be abusing the hell out of it and complaining on the message boards about it affecting tournament matches. I think the VC thing is blown out of proportion. It's like one guy yelled fire, and then the Internet just fanned the flames till it became this big shitstorm which is totally unwarranted.

As for your particular example with X... I hate that bitch. If anything, she is what's broken with the Soul Calibur series, not VC. She was way too good in SC2, and I think she's just as good in SC3. She's safe after 90% of her moves and is super fast, plus she has that stupid move (66A+B is it?) that snuffs everything which can also be cancelled. Fixed in EU, I know, but that doesn't help us Americans any.

She's my favorite character...

If I remember correctly tho, (66A+B) (I don't know if we're thinking of the same move) has been slightly altered in SC3, so it doesn't have the overwheming priority as it did in 2.

Plus Taki and Assassin will trounce Xia when it comes to priority.

 

[thetrin]

Denial. It's entertaining.

I dunno how many times I've seen the computer or friends in VS being "teleported" up immediatly from being knocked down. But it's a lot of times. And sometimes the hitboxes seem really.. Weird.

Happens all the time, especially with a sweep is part of a punch/kick combo. Instead of whiffing with a high punch, the sweeped enemy gets up in time to receive a nice knuckle in the eye.

 

[mr jones]

@ bold

i'm confused as t how you (a) don't like that most counters give guaranteed damage and (b) don't like the DOA style sidestepping...

if you know what's coming and want to avoid getting hit, DH it...

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was kingshit or anything. Its just that I've always sorta considered Ayane a somewhat broken character, considering how many moves she has that all hit high, and how she does so little damage unless you rack up a good combo. Granted, if she pops you in the air, THEN she's evil. Otherwise? Meh.

After Soul Calibur's 8 way movement, (and VOOT "OMG I can go everywhere!!1!" movement), DOA feels stiff when it comes to sidestepping.

 

[Flo_Evans]

swords > boobs.

 

[Demigod Mac]

I couldn't confirm this but does SC3's control seem... unresponsive... to anyone? Like there's a split second lag between button presses and moving.

I couldn't stand the game long enough to figure it out.

 

[I <3 Katamari]

b. For all the knocks on it, at least DOA4 isn't the buggy piece of shit that SC3 has become. Say what you will about the system decisions in DOA, but you're not going to find stupid ass crap like VC and random clashes in it.

What the hell? No, DOA4 IS a buggy piece of shit. This is a fact.

- A bug that, when you play Versus with someone locally, they get a bunch of your achievements for no reason.
- A bug that gives people SS ranknigs online, without deserving it.
- A bug that ERASES YOUR DATA just by turning the Xbox 360 on with the game inside. That is RIDICULOUS.

c. The design of DOA lends itself well to online play. The design of SC3 lends itself well for me to POOP ON.

That doens't make sense. SC3 would lend itself to online play well. It just doesn't have it. It should, but it doens't.

d. DOA4 has a great online experience.

Uh, other than the fact that it's laggy as hell to the point of being almost unplayable a good deal of the time. How much have you played it? Maybe THAT'S why SC3 isn't online.

e. Instead of improving the game for competitive players, they decided to include stupid shit that no one wanted to quench the thirst of weak-wristed home alone players who only "play for fun". Yeck.

Good ya.. name those?

DOA4 is fun, but SC3 kicks all kinds of ass. It still has amazing gameplay. Both games were disappointing in ways (DOA4 in a lot of ways).

 

[Shouta]

There's only one area in which I would say DOA4 > SC3 and that's execution. Namco really did a sloppy job with the game and it shows. I love some of the changes and hate some of the others (yay Yunseong! Boo Raph!) .However, the core gameplay system is still intact and that's still leaps and bounds ahead of DOA4.

 

[The Faceless Master]

What the hell? No, DOA4 IS a buggy piece of shit. This is a fact.

- A bug that, when you play Versus with someone locally, they get a bunch of your achievements for no reason.
- A bug that gives people SS ranknigs online, without deserving it.
- A bug that ERASES YOUR DATA just by turning the Xbox 360 on with the game inside. That is RIDICULOUS.

first bug i've never heard of, but i'll take your word on it...
second one, don't forget it can also give a F-!!!
third one... that's more of a bug with the 360 dashboard than DOA (or else why would the dashboard patch have fixed it?)

That doens't make sense. SC3 would lend itself to online play well. It just doesn't have it. It should, but it doens't.



Uh, other than the fact that it's laggy as hell to the point of being almost unplayable a good deal of the time. How much have you played it? Maybe THAT'S why SC3 isn't online.

sounds like a case of shitty internet connection™ as most people, even the haters will all admit that the actual netcode is among the top on xbox live...

i had two days where routing and internet congestion made every game unplayable, but that was the exception...

Good ya.. name those?

DOA4 is fun, but SC3 kicks all kinds of ass. It still has amazing gameplay. Both games were disappointing in ways (DOA4 in a lot of ways).

:lol

 

[MrAngryFace]

I turn the 360 on with the game inside all the time.

BTW 16 wins in survival with Survival! Watch out Lyteedge!

 

[cvxfreak]

I too am glad I bought DOA4 rather than SCIII.

 

[Yusaku]

I'm starting to think that DoA4 online play's smoothness is contingent on how fat your upload pipes are.

Not really, DOA, like most online games, uses very little bandwidth. It's purely a matter of latency.

 

[masud]

Shut yo' mouth boy.

swords and boobs > boobs.

fixed

 

[Yusaku]

- A bug that, when you play Versus with someone locally, they get a bunch of your achievements for no reason.
- A bug that gives people SS ranknigs online, without deserving it.
- A bug that ERASES YOUR DATA just by turning the Xbox 360 on with the game inside. That is RIDICULOUS.



That doens't make sense. SC3 would lend itself to online play well. It just doesn't have it. It should, but it doens't.



Uh, other than the fact that it's laggy as hell to the point of being almost unplayable a good deal of the time. How much have you played it? Maybe THAT'S why SC3 isn't online.



Good ya.. name those?

DOA4 is fun, but SC3 kicks all kinds of ass. It still has amazing gameplay. Both games were disappointing in ways (DOA4 in a lot of ways).

The gamesave bug is easily avoidable, and will be patched within the month. Can't say the same for SC3.

If everyone you're playing with online is laggy it means you have a shitty internet connection, don't blame Tecmo.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

that's more of a bug with the 360 dashboard than DOA (or else why would the dashboard patch have fixed it?)

Because the dashboard launches the game, and could patch it as it loads? I'm not saying the dash wasn't the problem, but your logic is flawed.

 

[Bob White]

On the other hand, Tecmo hasn't had such problems, god knows why though. I chalk it up to efficient design and coding.

Damn, never thought about it like that. Tecmo only releases on console and still makes a solid fighter. (meaning, not CRAZY broken) To do that without the arcade testing ground really speaks about how good they are.

It's a shame though because...

POWER STONE 2 >>>>>>>>>>> DOA (yeah, power stone TWO)

 

[MoxManiac]

Though I'm on the SC3 side of the fence, I'd like to bring up that SC3 also has a fatal bug where save files can get corrupted.

 

[I <3 Katamari]

The gamesave bug is easily avoidable, and will be patched within the month. Can't say the same for SC3.

If everyone you're playing with online is laggy it means you have a shitty internet connection, don't blame Tecmo.

Wrong. Even TN said they're looking into the online lag problems. It's not my internet connection, because my connection is great and I've -NEVER- had lag problems on Xbox Live before.

.. Other than DOA Ultimate of course.

 

[TheDuce22]

Ive played like 1500 matches (yeah im addicted) and maybe 10% of the 1 on 1 matches are slightly laggy. If you are having that much trouble with the lag its something on your end.

 

[KingJ2002]

either way alot of the problems shown in doa 4 online can be patched.

i dont own sc3... nor will i claim to have played it.


but i say... at this point... it's wrong to deny doa 4 as a great fighter to start of the generation.

the gameplay has changed so much that i can see this being played at evo for a couple of years.

it's a great fighter that makes you forget about it's past.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

2G is a bug in SC2 which let you block when you shouldn't be able to. It lessened the effectiveness of parries and made some moves safer than they should have been. VC in SC3 is Virtual Cancel - similar motion (hold G, tap down down)... it lets you cancel moves like throws and perform unnatural combos. Apparently, when Namco fixed the 2G bug for SC3, it introduced this new bug, VC, which is probably related to the old 2G bug.

Here's a link to the SC3 newbie silencer thread on the soul calibur forums... it helps with the notation.

http://www.soulcalibur.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26574

There should be a sticked thread on the forums somewhere about VC if you want to read up on it, but I'm too lazy to find it.

thanks alot man. Well that explains alot, ...about sueng mina and xianghua...dirty whores.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Because the dashboard launches the game, and could patch it as it loads? I'm not saying the dash wasn't the problem, but your logic is flawed.

that may be technically possible, but that's not how MS handles things on the 360...

 

[Sullichin]

I am a huge SC fan but I think SC3 is a mess. I just can't get into it. Why did they make everything so convoluted?

 

[Lyte Edge]

I've had plenty of DOA4 matches with *zero* lag. It all depends on your connection.

Sometimes when I play in a laggy game, I wonder if it's being done as a form of "cheating," as certain characters can be played quite effectively in lag-filled games and you might have a huge advantage over the other player, or they just wait for you to quit so they get the points.

I turn the 360 on with the game inside all the time.

BTW 16 wins in survival with Survival! Watch out Lyteedge!

LA MARIPOSA IS ALWAYS READY 4 U

I'm still hoping that when Soul Calibur III is released in the arcade, it will have a lot of bug fixes, and then will be ported to the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 later on.

 

[Hydro_Alexis]

I was playing doa 4 today what makes this game different from the other ones? from the graphics to the gameplay its the same old shit!

 

[Oichi]

What the hell? No, DOA4 IS a buggy piece of shit. This is a fact.

- A bug that, when you play Versus with someone locally, they get a bunch of your achievements for no reason.
- A bug that gives people SS ranknigs online, without deserving it.
- A bug that ERASES YOUR DATA just by turning the Xbox 360 on with the game inside. That is RIDICULOUS.

I'm not going to comment on this because faceless already said what I was going to say.

That doens't make sense. SC3 would lend itself to online play well. It just doesn't have it. It should, but it doens't.

Yes, SC3 would too, but it hasn't. And I personally think that DOA does a better job of it, since Namco has a hardon for JF moves, which wouldn't translate well if their series (SC/Tekken) ever went online.

Uh, other than the fact that it's laggy as hell to the point of being almost unplayable a good deal of the time. How much have you played it? Maybe THAT'S why SC3 isn't online.

I've played enough to know that the game is definitely playable online. Like everyone said, if you're getting shitty lag more often than not, that's a problem with your ISP, not the game.

Good ya.. name those?

Let's see, they introduced sabaki and guard crushes into the game. They finally revamped the oki game so that there are more options for standing characters to attack prone opponents and vice versa. Not to mention that they tweaked the DH system around. They've also made the characters MUCH more diverse than in previous games. Everyone save for Hitomi, Spartan, Jann Lee and Leon have their different subsystems. They haven't done any improvements to the throw system though, which still annoys me.

By comparison, SC introduced guard crushes in SC2 (good!) then fucked it up by not giving any character an advantage after a successful guard crush in SC3 (bad!). They still haven't resolved their stupid ass sidestepping issues, which have existed since SC1, and yet continue to manifest themselves into something worse every installment, culminating with SC3's VC (bad). SC3 got stun combos (good!), and then also introduced Just Frame Guard Impacts, which are good and bad, IMO. The theory behind GI is that you're supposed to be in a neutral situation afterwards, but JFGI gives you an advantage, which kind of contradicts the whole concept of GI. But it's timing dependent, so I can let it slide and think of it as a good thing.

 

[Tabris]

DOA4 is a huge tease.

Cause I know how great online play would be in either Tekken or VF.

Online play makes that game great. I've had some fun playing matchs with GAF people here.

 

[Beezy]

Is this a joke thread or does Reno work for Team Ninja?

 

[Lyte Edge]

Is this a joke thread or does Reno work for Team Ninja?

Why is it so hard for people to believe that DOA4 has seen significent improvment from the previous games and also makes for a great online fighting experience? I'm sure if you just mash the buttons, you aren't going to notice anything new, but people like Reno really get into fighting games and know what's changed, what's good, and what's bad. It's not like he's saying DOA4 is the best game ever, he's just saying it's better when compared to SC3.

Where are the 1up crew? They always talk about DOA4 sucking and inter-office SC3 tournaments on the 1up Show.

 

[Shouta]

Just Frame Guard Impact is so hard to get most of the time, I think it justifies the advantage. It's not something you'll get consistently. It's like a lot of just frame moves for various characters in the game where if you hit it on the exact frame, you'll do extra damage on top of the extra hit.

 

[Amir0x]

but come on, did we really need MAKE A CHARACTER

yes

Also, DOA4 sucks yadda yadda but Soul Calibur 3 should definitely have been online

 

[Sho Nuff]

BUR HUR HURHURHURHURR PS2 MORE BETAR HATE BILL GATES STUPID M$ EXCLUSIEVE ONLY APEAL AM BOOBS ME MATURE OFFENDED LIKE FEMINIST UR BUR UR HURHUR

DOA4 is a fine fighting game. Chill.

 

[Mrbob]

Is this a joke thread or does Reno work for Team Ninja?

Going through this thread, I'm reading posts from people slamming on DoA4 who don't even own a 360.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Reno is serious, all the posts after? Most are probably joke posts

 

[bishoptl]

Going through this thread, I'm reading posts from people slamming on DoA4 who don't even own a 360.

I own a 360 and think DOA4 is a 6/10 at best. Take that!

 

[Mrbob]

I own a 360 and think DOA4 is a 6/10 at best. Take that!

I know you accidentally put 6/10 there, because I really know you meant 9/10 so it is all good.

 

[Tabris]

Going through this thread, I'm reading posts from people slamming on DoA4 who don't even own a 360.

I own a 360 and think DOA4 is trash.

...but it's online trash and very fun due to that fact.

 

[Gattsu25]

I don't own a 360 but played DOA4 for about 10 hours in vs and tag modes

I think it's fun...not as technical as VF and less skill based than both SC3 and VF4, but more fun than Tekken and a pretty good pick-up-and-play party game

it's like SSBM in that sense, it's not the deepest game out there...but that is also it's strength

 

[DCharlie]

Originally Posted by GAF:
BUR HUR HURHURHURHURR PS2 MORE BETAR HATE BILL GATES STUPID M$ EXCLUSIEVE ONLY APEAL AM BOOBS ME MATURE OFFENDED LIKE FEMINIST UR BUR UR HURHUR

lolz becuz it's tru.

Another thread of Reno bashing SC, good lord man, give it a rest, you probably never played a SC game in your life!

 

[Azih]

then spamming out the corresponding counters.

At which point any DoA player with any amount of skill starts grappling to make your counters look stupid.

Walls are overpowered in DoA4 though, waay overpowered.

 

[Pachinko]

DOA4>VF4>DOA2/ultimate>DOA3>Soul Calibur =Soul calibur 2>>>>>>>>>Soul calibur 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mortal Kombat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> King of fighters maximum impact>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tekken as
a series>> Street fighter EX.


So yeah I agree with reno, soul calibur 3 was crap. I didn't mind messing around in 1 and 2 , going through mission mode and such. Never much cared for playing against others though it always seemed to boil down to picking killik and mashing vert slash repeatadly. Soul Calibur 3 was trash though, not much fun at all, create a player was more like dress the barbie and ken doll then an actual create a player mode , the minigame was boring as hell and the single player mode having a mission based structure made for alot of stupid unnessecary story bullshit mixed in between fights. Plus the loadtimes were brutal. The save glitch was like a nail in a coffin that was allready buried.

EDIT- I have played Tekken 5 and it was the same old shit , in fact it was actually less of a step forward then 4 was, it was like they tried somethign new and people bitched so they made 5 identical to 3 but gave it a graphical polishing. Tekken is 100% flash, VF is 100% substance and DOA is somewhere in between with soul calibur.

 

[Tabris]

People who are dissing on Tekken either never played 5 or have horrible taste.

 

[The Faceless Master]

People who are dissing on Tekken either never played 5 or have horrible taste.

even hardcore Tekken players have been dissing Tekken 4, 5, 5.1 and DR

 

[Jaf]

I haven't played Soul Calibur 3 but I owned both 1 & 2. DOA 4 is a really great game, the online is fun and can be laggy but it's still a blast to play on live.

 

[Tabris]

even hardcore Tekken players have been dissing Tekken 4, 5, 5.1 and DR

I've played Tekken since the first.

Absolutely loved the 3rd one. Was expecting more with Tag. Hated 4. Absolutely loving the 5th one.

Tekken 5 is the correct evolution to the series.

 

[Cold-Steel]

Virtua Fighter is garbage.

I will agree with anyone who says any fighter is better than Virtua Fighter.

I will not agree with anyone who says Soul Calibur is not the greatest 3D fighting series ever made though.