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[SpeedingUptoStop]

I was just thinking of another theme running this series. Things pretending to be other things. For example just in the last few eps... Melody secretly living as a childhood friend, the boy who was actually an alien living under false history, the prison ship disguised as a hotel, even to an extent the "holodecks" of the time streams place. It's all things appearing to be other things. Maybe it's just a plot device being a tad overused but it seems to be in a heck of a lot of eps.

Autons hiding as Romans? A floor of a building that doesn't exist secretly hiding a tardis, prisoner zero shapeshifting, the gangers, the fish aliens as vampires, the secret tardis hiding place in that black matter box at area 51, im sure there's a lot more too.

Yeah it probably is just a case of it being convenient for the story, but I still wonder.

"Amelia Pond, have you ever wondered why your life doesn't make any sense?"

 

[infiniteloop]

Casting for the Christmas episode:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...laire-Skinner-on-Doctor-Who-at-Christmas.html

Spoiler

OUTNUMBERED star Claire Skinner will step into the Tardis as a "super-mum" with comedian Bill Bailey for this year's Doctor Who Christmas special.

Fellow comics Alexander Armstrong and Fast Show funnywoman Arabella Weir also join Matt Smith.

The festive spectacular will see the Time Lord in World War Two-torn England with young widow Madge (Claire) and her two children.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Oh look, it's

Spoiler

World War II

again.

 

[lunarworks]

Oh look, it's

Spoiler

World War II

again.

Oh look, it's

Spoiler

England

again.

Spoiler

The TARDIS can travel anywhere in time and space... except for on Earth, where it can only go to England.

 

[JonathanEx]

Oh look, it's

Spoiler

England

again.

Spoiler

The TARDIS can travel anywhere in time and space... except for on Earth, where it can only go to England.

This series. Episode 1 and 2. Technically, Rebel Flesh two parter was unspecified Earth. Let's Kill Hitler wasn't England too. Leaving Night Terrors and Closing Time in UK.

Last series, Venice, Arles.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The biggest issue with the story arc is that there's absolutely no emotional fallout whatsoever. Amy and Rory go through this massive, life altering series of events, and it's pretty much completely swept under the rug. Having your baby kidnapped isn't something that you just recover from right away, especially not if she winds up being brainwashed and turned into an assassin, yet there's been almost no reaction from them.

The very next episode after Let's Kill Hitler deals with the relationship between a parent and their child. Amy and Rory's situation isn't even acknowledge in it. Yes, the episode was moved around in the order, but someone should have realized what a huge disconnect there was there (and the episode it was swapped with was The Curse of the Black Spot, which also dealt with that some subject matter). Old Amy in The Girl Who Waited doesn't acknowledge her daughter at all. The scene about the Doctor trying to deconstruct the idea Amy has about him in the latest episode might have worked better if there was, I don't know, even the slightest mention about how traveling with him resulted in her daughter getting kidnapped and he completely failed at trying to rescue her.

It's like Moffat copied all of the worst elements of the Connor plot line from Angel (child who instantly shows up as a full grown character who is pretty annoying), but none of the good elements (the emotional fallout amongst the characters). It completely destroys the credibility of both the characters and the arc itself.

 

[maharg]

This series. Episode 1 and 2.

To be fair, the TARDIS didn't take them there.

 

[JonathanEx]

To be fair, the TARDIS didn't take them there.

It's a fair point.

But with an edit I just put together, the England focus has been much less than people think in the last 2 series.

 

[mclem]

I wonder if Rory's got more significance than we're giving him? A couple of times he's been shown as having changed, too, but it's not been dwelt on much. In the most recent episode, there's the curious use of past tense, and the fact that he was fundamentally incompatible with the hotel.

I think they're possibly setting him up for something in the finale, too. I don't think his story's done just yet.

 

[bengraven]

Oh man, I really like Bailey, but I was still hoping it would be Alan or Stephen Fry. :/

 

[gabbo]

I wonder if Rory's got more significance than we're giving him? A couple of times he's been shown as having changed, too, but it's not been dwelt on much. In the most recent episode, there's the curious use of past tense, and the fact that he was fundamentally incompatible with the hotel.

I think they're possibly setting him up for something in the finale, too. I don't think his story's done just yet.

I haven't seen the episode yet, but if Rory is somehow involved, I'm putting money on him dying somehow.

 

[maharg]

I still think he's just supposed to be dead. Before he was erased he was dead, and Amy's restoration of the universe restored it wrong because she forced him into existence.

 

[LProtag]

I half expected the line the Doctor gave Amy while explaining his reasoning for leaving to go: "What's the alternative? Me standing over your grave? Over your broken body, over Rory's body... again."

 

[gabbo]

I half expected the line the Doctor gave Amy while explaining his reasoning for leaving to go: "What's the alternative? Me standing over your grave? Over your broken body, over Rory's body... again."

Doesn't that sort of undo the universe, like if he were to talk to Donna?

 

[bengraven]

Forget what I posted above. I could seriously see this as what the Doctor sees:

http://i.imgur.com/NMLdH.jpg

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I know its the BBC and revenue is different over there, but what are the budgets for New Who episodes on average?

Also, how does it take 9 months to shoot 13 episodes when American show typically do 22 or so in less? Are the budgets that different? The hours? I would love to know how BBC shows are produced differently than in Hollywood.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

I know its the BBC and revenue is different over there, but what are the budgets for New Who episodes on average?

Also, how does it take 9 months to shoot 13 episodes when American show typically do 22 or so in less? Are the budgets that different? The hours? I would love to know how BBC shows are produced differently than in Hollywood.

Been wondering this myself. Hoping for some insight here!

 

[gabbo]

I know its the BBC and revenue is different over there, but what are the budgets for New Who episodes on average?

Also, how does it take 9 months to shoot 13 episodes when American show typically do 22 or so in less? Are the budgets that different? The hours? I would love to know how BBC shows are produced differently than in Hollywood.

Didn't Moffatt go off and work on another show, like he did with Sherlocke last time?

Forget what I posted above. I could seriously see this as what the Doctor sees:

http://i.imgur.com/NMLdH.jpg

I can only believe it was himself, or a past companion/all past companions.
guy's an intergalatic emotional wrecking ball

 

[maharg]

Also, how does it take 9 months to shoot 13 episodes when American show typically do 22 or so in less? Are the budgets that different? The hours? I would love to know how BBC shows are produced differently than in Hollywood.

It's probably purely budget. And the amount of effort that goes into each individual episode. You might notice that most of the really high quality American drama TV (coming mostly out of cable these days) is moving to shorter seasons as well, btw.

That said, I like shorter seasons. American, British, or otherwise. 13 episodes is pretty much the perfect season length for a drama.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

I can only believe it was himself, or a past companion/all past companions.

Peri

Being married off to Space Brian Blessed is a fate worse than death.

 

[gabbo]

[just finished episode on Space's website]
I've been waiting for this to happen for a while now, Amy and Rory leaving. Now that it has, I feel a bit sad. That last scene was well done. Easily the best episode since coming back from break and the best 'goodbye' to a companion I've seen yet (barring 9th to Rose, but that's not quite the same).

Somehow she tricked that monster into believing she had lost faith in the Doctor, because Amy still believes. Rose-levels of belief must exist in her now.

Hopefully next season has no Amy-based intro. One thing I've never liked about Moffatt's run all the way through.

 

[maharg]

I really don't understand why people complain about the Amy intro. As far as things they could do to broaden the audience, it's about the least offensive thing they could possibly do. It's not for you, it's for the people who've never heard of Doctor Who. Or at best think the Doctor is just a funny british guy with a giant scarf who gets in fights with upside-down trashcans on PBS.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

I really don't understand why people complain about the Amy intro. As far as things they could do to broaden the audience, it's about the least offensive thing they could possibly do. It's not for you, it's for the people who've never heard of Doctor Who. Or at best think the Doctor is just a funny british guy with a giant scarf who gets in fights with upside-down trashcans on PBS.

Is complaining about that still a thing? Seems so April. I mean yeah, when I first saw it on a local broadcast I thought it was a bit silly and superfluous, but it was also entirely inoffensive.

If it helps bring in new viewers, great.

 

[maharg]

And if you want to see what they could do to offensively americanize it, take a gander at Torchwood. Explosions, helicopters, and bazookas, oh my!

 

[StealthGoblin]

Doctor Who related.

The Fades starts tonight on BBC3 (UK). The two producers of the show are the new Who producers, taking over from Beth and Wenger.

 

[mrklaw]

Oh look, it's

Spoiler

England

again.

Spoiler

The TARDIS can travel anywhere in time and space... except for on Earth, where it can only go to England.

Never watch the John Pertwee episodes


And Alexander Armstrong? Not sure I could watch him in WWII uniform without thinking of his comedy sketches.

 

[mclem]

And Alexander Armstrong? Not sure I could watch him in WWII uniform without thinking of his comedy sketches.

Bonus points if at some point during the episode an alien crystal starts to hear and resonate with his voice...

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Preview for the final episode:
http://www.radiotimes.com/blog/2011-09-20/doctor-who-the-wedding-of-river-song-preview

Spoiler

"We have Minis suspended by air balloons, pterodactyls attacking school kids, a train emerging Magritte-like from London’s Gherkin building and Charles Dickens (Simon Callow) discussing A Christmas Carol with Bill Turnbull and Sian Williams on BBC Breakfast. Add to that Winston Churchill hailed as Caesar in present-day London and the Doctor shambling about like a bearded apostle. And all this in the first few minutes."

 

[Router]

oh man... The cast for this years Christmas Special.... DROOL.

 

[JonathanEx]

Preview for the final episode:
http://www.radiotimes.com/blog/2011-09-20/doctor-who-the-wedding-of-river-song-preview

Spoiler

"We have Minis suspended by air balloons, pterodactyls attacking school kids, a train emerging Magritte-like from London’s Gherkin building and Charles Dickens (Simon Callow) discussing A Christmas Carol with Bill Turnbull and Sian Williams on BBC Breakfast. Add to that Winston Churchill hailed as Caesar in present-day London and the Doctor shambling about like a bearded apostle. And all this in the first few minutes."

WOW.

 

[The Elite]

Preview for the final episode:
http://www.radiotimes.com/blog/2011-09-20/doctor-who-the-wedding-of-river-song-preview

Spoiler

"We have Minis suspended by air balloons, pterodactyls attacking school kids, a train emerging Magritte-like from London’s Gherkin building and Charles Dickens (Simon Callow) discussing A Christmas Carol with Bill Turnbull and Sian Williams on BBC Breakfast. Add to that Winston Churchill hailed as Caesar in present-day London and the Doctor shambling about like a bearded apostle. And all this in the first few minutes."

This sounds insane!

 

[Ventilaator]

spoilers

Even though I'm still expecting the final episode to be shit, I couldn't look forward to it more. Even if it's a failure, it's at least going to be a spectacular one.

But reading about this apple and rubik's cube thing...if they manage to do the future jacketless Doctor thing again, but on a scale of the entire season being full of lies, then it should be pretty incredible and I might have to take back everything bad I said about Moffat earlier.

 

[bengraven]

Fuck yes, THAT actor back playing THAT character from 9's run!

 

[mrklaw]

Preview for the final episode:
http://www.radiotimes.com/blog/2011-09-20/doctor-who-the-wedding-of-river-song-preview

Spoiler

"We have Minis suspended by air balloons, pterodactyls attacking school kids, a train emerging Magritte-like from London’s Gherkin building and Charles Dickens (Simon Callow) discussing A Christmas Carol with Bill Turnbull and Sian Williams on BBC Breakfast. Add to that Winston Churchill hailed as Caesar in present-day London and the Doctor shambling about like a bearded apostle. And all this in the first few minutes."

hmm.

Possibly a little too wacky. Lots of wibbly wobbly, ready for another timeline reset?

 

[mclem]

Fuck yes, THAT actor back playing THAT character from 9's run!

I'm not going to reveal the black bars to find out, but I suspect I know who you mean given that the cast list in the RT preview at the start of the season strongly suggested this.

I'm curious just how it ties in with *that* character's timeline.

 

[electroshockwave]

So if we think that the Doctor

Spoiler

may have gotten another Doctor from the timestream facility do you think that would explain the two hundred year age difference between current Doctor and the one who dies? And what change would make him able to like apples and solve Rubik's cubes?

(more speculation than actual spoilers but I'll spoiler it to be safe.

 

[JonathanEx]

I'm not going to reveal the black bars to find out, but I suspect I know who you mean given that the cast list in the RT preview at the start of the season strongly suggested this.

I'm curious just how it ties in with *that* character's timeline.

It fits in... interestingly. If you want to look at the black bars (though don't blame you if not), they end in the sentence "And all this in the first few minutes."

 

[infiniteloop]

Synopsis for the 2011 Christmas episode from BBC Press Office:

Spoiler

The special, set during the Second World War, sees Madge Arwell and her two children, Lily and Cyril, evacuated to a draughty old house in Dorset, where the caretaker is a mysterious young man in a bow tie, and a big blue parcel is waiting for them under the tree. They are about to enter a magical new world and learn that a Time Lord never forgets his debts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2011/09_september/21/who.shtml

 

[Dizzy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw

Old? shows pictures of River with an eyepatch.


On the topic of River, I think it was kinda BS how they made out all this fuss about her being used as a weapon and then she kills and falls in love with the doctor all in one episode. They should have had her as a villian for a bit longer.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw

Old? shows pictures of River with an eyepatch.


On the topic of River, I think it was kinda BS how they made out all this fuss about her being used as a weapon and then she kills and falls in love with the doctor all in one episode. They should have had her as a villian for a bit longer.

That there is my single biggest problem with this entire season.

 

[bengraven]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw

Old? shows pictures of River with an eyepatch.


On the topic of River, I think it was kinda BS how they made out all this fuss about her being used as a weapon and then she kills and falls in love with the doctor all in one episode. They should have had her as a villian for a bit longer.

Yeah, the quick compression of her story in LKH pissed me off.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Synopsis for the 2011 Christmas episode from BBC Press Office:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2011/09_september/21/who.shtml

The Doctor is a Lannister now? :lol

 

[andylsun]

And there's a prequel (Edit: short 2 minute web video) to the final episode after the next episode. Just read the Radio Times article - nervous now, want it to be so good.

 

[TetraxShards]

Those spoilers sound SO GOOD. I can't wait for the next few weeks and the Christmas special.

 

[mrklaw]

And there's a prequel to the final episode after the next episode. Just read the Radio Times article - nervous now, want it to be so good.

so three left in this season? Corden, prequel, finale?

 

[APZonerunner]

I know its the BBC and revenue is different over there, but what are the budgets for New Who episodes on average?

Also, how does it take 9 months to shoot 13 episodes when American show typically do 22 or so in less? Are the budgets that different? The hours? I would love to know how BBC shows are produced differently than in Hollywood.

One reason why all British shows generally have shorter series' than in the US is because the rules and regulations on how long actors & production staff can work are way, way stricter here. A series like 24, for instance, which was really intensive on everyone involved, would just never have come off here.

It's not just a BBC thing but a British thing in general, though with the BBC it's even stricter as being taxpayer funded they are even under more pressure to make sure everything is fair at every level for everyone who works there.

As for budget compared to American shows Who is produced on an absolute shoestring, or at least that's what it sounds like even though we don't have precise numbers. Supposedly what they achieve with the money they have is quite astonishing, though.

 

[infiniteloop]

so three left in this season? Corden, prequel, finale?

Prequel is just a short scene on the website.

 

[Kuraudo]

Fuck yes, THAT actor back playing THAT character from 9's run!

I imagine it's little more than a cameo, but damn that's a great piece of continuity.

 

[bengraven]

I imagine it's little more than a cameo, but damn that's a great piece of continuity.

I will say I'm a bit disappointed that the first character from previous Whos to appear in Eleven's is a historical figure, but I suppose Ten basically wrapped up all the storylines from both his and Nine's continuity.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

I will say I'm a bit disappointed that the first character from previous Whos to appear in Eleven's is a historical figure, but I suppose Ten basically wrapped up all the storylines from both his and Nine's continuity.

11 needs an adventure with Martha and Mickey.