• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Doctor Who Series 2011 |OT| Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Stuff

Status
Not open for further replies.
maharg said:
No need to spoiler, but be aware that the policy in this thread is that anything from an episode is fair game as long as it's aired somewhere, so you might want to run away from the thread until you're caught up.

At any rate, a while back I read a really interesting analysis of RTD's era of Who criticizing it for that particular plot point among others where the Doctor seems to go out of his way to remove power from a woman. The other notable examples being one you've just seen, which is when he removes the time vortex from Rose, and one later on that I won't spoil for you, but it involves one of his companions.

Whether that's a trend in his work or not, I dunno. It was interesting, though.

Wasn't the time vortex gonna kill her?

And I thought Harriet Jones decisions, basically was against how Doctor basically operates. I think it may be the writer's always searching for excuses to get the Doctor removes their powers...
 

mclem

Member
Quick said:
Picture it: Rose and the Doctor are stuck inside the church with all these people because time is in a repeating loop and the only way to get out of the loop is for Pete to die by getting hit by that car that keeps popping in and out. A whole episode dedicated to Rose bonding with her dad, and ultimately letting him get hit by the car. No monsters required.

It may be Urban Legend, but I seem to recall hearing that there was an edict from on high that *every* episode of the New Series - at least for the first few years - had to contain A Monster. Not necessarily a *villain*, but clearly an otherworldly being.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Relaxed Muscle said:
Wasn't the time vortex gonna kill her?

The suggestion isn't that the Doctor himself is being misogynistic, but that the writer is for having a pattern of giving women (sometimes ultimate) power and then having it stripped away by the male hero.

Now that, hopefully, teiresias has taken the advice to run away from the thread, I'll point out the other major example is Donna's memory wipe to 'save her' from her increasing time-lordiness.

Again, I dunno if I agree with it, but it is fairly interesting. It was contrasted with Amy having the power to recreate the universe and not having that power stripped away from her, btw.
 
Just seems to be reading more into it than is actually there. I mean, you could definitely make a case re: sexism in Who when it comes to some of the companions, but RTD's run on the show is probably one of the last places I'd start looking.
 
maharg said:
The suggestion isn't that the Doctor himself is being misogynistic, but that the writer is for having a pattern of giving women (sometimes ultimate) power and then having it stripped away by the male hero.

Now that, hopefully, teiresias has taken the advice to run away from the thread, I'll point out the other major example is Donna's memory wipe to 'save her' from her increasing time-lordiness.

Again, I dunno if I agree with it, but it is fairly interesting. It was contrasted with Amy having the power to recreate the universe and not having that power stripped away from her, btw.

Oh, well I certainly can understand that point, Harriet Jones decisions didn't really fit the character and the excuses didn't help either.
 
The whole "doesn't she look tired" thing is really more about, I think, a commentary on the government at the time - this was the point when the job was sending Blair really grey, he was making questionable decisions, and looked utterly knackered 24/7 compared to the smiling face he had been.

I think it's also worth noting she didn't just 'go against' The Doctor, she killed thousands of sentient beings as they were retreating. It's no small thing.

It would've been the same plot-line had it been a man. Harriet gets her moment of redemption later on, anyway.

RTD speaks a bit in the writers tale about how he writes women. He says he likes writing powerful women because it reminds him of his mother - in that household growing up his mom definitely wore the trousers how he describes it. His dad would bring home the money, but his mother was in charge and was a big figure in the tight-knit Welsh community he lived in.

The 'stripping away' thing seems strange but I think it's not really anything sinister - it's a byproduct of the fact that this show is about The Doctor who is (and always will be?) a man. RTD couldn't leave Rose or Donna with all that power and had to give a way to remove it, it's too much of a take-away from The Doctor otherwise.

Amy kept her being 'special' but it only actually does anythign in significant circumstances, whereas the 'powers' Rose and Donna got were stronger and more permanent.

I think to take away that RTD dislikes strong female characters is crazy purely because as much as you strip away any sci-fi/fantasy powers they might've gained to keep the stauts quo you can't ever really take away the fact that Martha was far stronger than The Doctor over the years The Master was in power, Donna was more even-handed than him and held him back, Rose was his rock, Joan was strong enough to let go etc etc. These are, arguably, bigger and more human showings of strength than most of what The Doctor does.

Even a villain like Miss Hartigan in The Next Doctor shows a really strong female character from him - so mentally strong that her mind survives being converted and takes control of the Cybermen. Say what you will about the quality of the show, but Gwen from Torchwood was a pretty good example of that early on, too. She's become more of a caricature in Miracle Day, but she was a great female heroine for the first 3 seasons.
 

Ithil

Member
maharg said:
No need to spoiler, but be aware that the policy in this thread is that anything from an episode is fair game as long as it's aired somewhere, so you might want to run away from the thread until you're caught up.

At any rate, a while back I read a really interesting analysis of RTD's era of Who criticizing it for that particular plot point among others where the Doctor seems to go out of his way to remove power from a woman. The other notable examples being one you've just seen, which is when he removes the time vortex from Rose, and one later on that I won't spoil for you, but it involves one of his companions.

Whether that's a trend in his work or not, I dunno. It was interesting, though.
The Rose thing is just plain silly. He was saving her life doing that, and giving up a regeneration in the process.
 

mclem

Member
APZonerunner said:
The whole "doesn't she look tired" thing is really more about, I think, a commentary on the government at the time - this was the point when the job was sending Blair really grey, he was making questionable decisions, and looked utterly knackered 24/7 compared to the smiling face he had been.

I think it's also worth noting she didn't just 'go against' The Doctor, she killed thousands of sentient beings as they were retreating. It's no small thing.

Wasn't it largely a reference to the sinking of the Belgrano? Indeed, wasn't "Don't you think she looks tired" - the premise, at least - fundamentally what started Thatcher being kicked out of the leadership role?
 
I don't wanna read much of the thread to avoid spoilers, but I just saw the first episode of this, "Rose", and it was utterly terrible. And the look my GF gave me... let's just say I'm banned from picking new TV shows to watch after that debacle.

Now, Ive heard good things about the show so I was certainly expecting something better, so I want to know if (and when) does it get better. Should I push to keep watching this or give up completely if I didn't like the Pilot.

I await your suggestions Doctor Who GAF, don't make me look bad.
 

ultron87

Member
Watch the first episode of series 5, The Eleventh Hour and continue on from there. It's a great starting point and has production values that are vastly superior to the first series.

If you like that you can eventually go back into the somewhat jankier stuff from series 1-4.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
maharg said:
The suggestion isn't that the Doctor himself is being misogynistic, but that the writer is for having a pattern of giving women (sometimes ultimate) power and then having it stripped away by the male hero.

Now that, hopefully, teiresias has taken the advice to run away from the thread, I'll point out the other major example is Donna's memory wipe to 'save her' from her increasing time-lordiness.

Again, I dunno if I agree with it, but it is fairly interesting. It was contrasted with Amy having the power to recreate the universe and not having that power stripped away from her, btw.

wtf?

Doctor is male.

Companions are often female, presumably to provide some contrast to the male Doctor.

Companions get into grief because they're companions. Its not misogynistic, just coincidence

smh
 
ultron87 said:
Watch the first episode of series 5, The Eleventh Hour and continue on from there. It's a great starting point and has production values that are vastly superior to the first series.

If you like that you can eventually go back into the somewhat jankier stuff from series 1-4.

Maybe I should have done my homework, but I don't like to read too much about series I'm about to watch. I just assumed I should start at the first episode of season 1 and go from there. I didn't know they were different series.

Could you go into a bit more detail without spoiling much? Can I start at season 5, go from there and still understand the show?
 

Clegg

Member
There are amazing episodes spanning series 1-4 but the best place to jump in would be the start of series 5 called "The Eleventh Hour" as it resets the series somewhat . After finishing series 5-6 you should go back on this thread for a list of the best episodes to watch from Series 1-4.

I think that Series 1-4 has some of the best one-off stories in all of DW. Series 5-6 has a much better overall story arc but some episodes in series 6 suffer slightly due to too much stuff being packed in.
 
crazygambit said:
I don't wanna read much of the thread to avoid spoilers, but I just saw the first episode of this, "Rose", and it was utterly terrible. And the look my GF gave me... let's just say I'm banned from picking new TV shows to watch after that debacle.

Now, Ive heard good things about the show so I was certainly expecting something better, so I want to know if (and when) does it get better. Should I push to keep watching this or give up completely if I didn't like the Pilot.

I await your suggestions Doctor Who GAF, don't make me look bad.
It is terrible. Whenever I try to get people into ths show, if they watch Rose first-they bail. Here is my advice: watch these episodes in this order: Blink (Season 3), Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead (Season 4), and then start watching Season 5. Once you're all caught up you can go back and watch the earlier ones.
 

Clegg

Member
crazygambit said:
Maybe I should have done my homework, but I don't like to read too much about series I'm about to watch. I just assumed I should start at the first episode of season 1 and go from there. I didn't know they were different series.

Could you go into a bit more detail without spoiling much? Can I start at season 5, go from there and still understand the show?
Yes Start from S5 as it introduces a new Doctor and a new companion.

Thw writer responsible for the best episodes from Series 1-4 takes took over as showrunner and there is a massive lep in production stardards too.
 
MDavis360 said:
It is terrible. Whenever I try to get people into ths show, if they watch Rose first-they bail. Here is my advice: watch these episodes in this order: Blink (Season 3), Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead (Season 4), and then start watching Season 5. Once you're all caught up you can go back and watch the earlier ones.

Awesome, will do that. Though it will be hard to convince the missus to give it another chance. Thanks.
 
crazygambit said:
Awesome, will do that. Though it will be hard to convince the missus to give it another chance. Thanks.
Make her read this:

I have had 5 friends at work follow this order, and they all now love this show-some even say it's their favorite show ever. Every Monday we all get into work, crowd around my desk and talk about the show.
 
infiniteloop said:
Watch the first 3 episodes of Series 1. I don't get just jumping to Series 5, even if it is the best.

If he didn't like Rose, he's not going to like End of the World either-that episode is pretty silly too.

He can always go back and watch these later.
 

maharg

idspispopd
MDavis360 said:
I don't believe RTD was capable of that level of subtext.

I don't think anyone would suggest it was deliberate, or that it showed any direct maliciousness on his part towards women. This is the kind of subtext that comes directly from cultural norms and expectations, and so is often very subtle and unplanned.
 
infiniteloop said:
Watch the first 3 episodes of Series 1. I don't get just jumping to Series 5, even if it is the best.

I've just started someone on Series 5. It was by no means intentional, I had an itunes card that gave her the first episode for free, but she wants to finish off the season before she starts anything else.

I'm tempted to give her a copy of Blink/Silence in the Library to watch first though.
 

Quick

Banned
mclem said:
It may be Urban Legend, but I seem to recall hearing that there was an edict from on high that *every* episode of the New Series - at least for the first few years - had to contain A Monster. Not necessarily a *villain*, but clearly an otherworldly being.

I heard about this, as well, but I don't even know if it's true.

MDavis360 said:
If he didn't like Rose, he's not going to like End of the World either-that episode is pretty silly too.

He can always go back and watch these later.

Pretty much.

However, The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances are amazing and I wouldn't personally skip those.
 

Medalion

Banned
tumblr_ls038wuPhW1qc18m7o1_500.jpg


Believe!
 

Mr. Sam

Member
Some days, I look up to the sky and I make a wish. I wish hard. I wish with every fibre of my being. I close my eyes and scrunch up my face. I wish I knew what the hell Community was.
 
Mr. Sam said:
Some days, I look up to the sky and I make a wish. I wish hard. I wish with every fibre of my being. I close my eyes and scrunch up my face. I wish I knew what the hell Community was.

It's a sitcom. Just go watch it, it's brilliant. Who, Community and Game of Thrones are basically all I watch nowadays. Holy trinity, bitch
 

Holmes

Member
I did find the first three episode of series 1 really flat. I didn't particularly hate them, though. Rose had terrible villains, The End of The World wasn't too bad, and The Unquiet Dead was so boring. Actually, I don't really like episodes where the Doctor goes anywhere before the 1900's. The Shakespeare Code was torture (especially after The Runaway Bride and Smith and Jones). The Next Doctor was horrible. Blah.
 

teiresias

Member
I don't really mind spoilers anymore when watching shows that I have available in large chunks via either netflix or disc medium. If a plotline or character or some other facet of a show's writing is very much urking me I'll frequently spoil myself just to check on whether I think the pain of continuing to watch is going to be worth it in the end.

In any event, I've read similar things about RTDs portrayal of women in Doctor Who, in particular, but find it hard to classify as a writing trait since I find it basically absent from Torchwood. I felt that show had a pretty good balance of both empowered and feeble women and men
at least so long as there was more than two freaking members of the team
. (Really, who doesn't love Gwen's kick-butt Welshness).

Question time, there are two Tennant-era Doctor Who specials separated out from the rest of the series on Netflix (can't really look up the titles right now). Can someone let me know where they're supposed to be watched?
 
Holmes said:
I did find the first three episode of series 1 really flat. I didn't particularly hate them, though. Rose had terrible villains, The End of The World wasn't too bad, and The Unquiet Dead was so boring. Actually, I don't really like episodes where the Doctor goes anywhere before the 1900's. The Shakespeare Code was torture (especially after The Runaway Bride and Smith and Jones). The Next Doctor was horrible. Blah.

You don't like Girl in the Fireplace? Get off my thread! :p
 

mclem

Member
Holmes said:
I did find the first three episode of series 1 really flat. I didn't particularly hate them, though. Rose had terrible villains, The End of The World wasn't too bad, and The Unquiet Dead was so boring. Actually, I don't really like episodes where the Doctor goes anywhere before the 1900's. The Shakespeare Code was torture (especially after The Runaway Bride and Smith and Jones). The Next Doctor was horrible. Blah.

He goes before the 1900's in The Runaway Bride :p
 
Im with the group that says to just catch the moffat episodes starting with series 2, then jump to 5. I too started with Rose my first time and really disliked it. Then i jumped to the christmas episode with tennant, which was also a mistake because he is asleep for more than half of it. Luckily, his energy in season 2 made me forgive the extreme cheesiness of the series and i became a fan, then i went back to season 1 and appreciated it. The production values and tone for S5, really are more friendly to newcomers.
 
teiresias said:
Question time, there are two Tennant-era Doctor Who specials separated out from the rest of the series on Netflix (can't really look up the titles right now). Can someone let me know where they're supposed to be watched?

Season 4
The Next Doctor
Planet of the Dead
Waters of Mars
End of Time
Season 5
 

beril

Member
I've lately come to realize something regarding the Smith/Moffat era. While the show is more clever, more complex, more sofisticated and just generally much better, it has never felt quite as apparent that it is a show primarily targeted toward children before. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, and it's really not something you can hold against it, considering that it is infact just that, it just haven't felt like it before. I guess it's partly because of Smiths sometimes childish demeanour and partly because of the more frequent appearances of kids in the show, but also I think Moffat and his team are very keen on exploring childrens fears and trying to make it scary for kids.

The new seasons often seem to focus on children, from the numerous appearences of young Emelia Pond to the the girl in Starship UK, the kid in Night Terrors, young Kazran, and even young River as well as several minor roles. The only kids I can remember from the previous runs are from The Empty Child, The Girl in the Fireplace and Fear Her, two of which were Moffats and the other one is best forgotten. And in oldWho it's only really Adric and Susan. It was pretty remarkable for the high average age of the cast as every other episode seemed to feature a couple of old geezers in counsel somewere, and hardly ayone under 40. Also when Smith goes undercover he works in a toysshop, Tennant worked as a physics teacher.

As I said, it's not a compaint, though I do miss the occasional more traditional sci-fi story
 

Arnie

Member
To be quite honest series 5 and 6 have been magnificent for me. To the point where I can't really look back upon the other series with much appreciation. The crack/silence story arcs including the Amy/Rory/River companions have surpassed anything I've seen of New Who (haven't and won't go back and watch Old Who for various reasons), with maybe Bad Wolf being an exception, despite that having a wholly unsatisfactory conclusion.

Really don't want to see the back of Amy and Rory but I feel it's coming.
 

maharg

idspispopd
beril said:
The new seasons often seem to focus on children, from the numerous appearences of young Emelia Pond to the the girl in Starship UK, the kid in Night Terrors, young Kazran, and even young River as well as several minor roles. The only kids I can remember from the previous runs are from The Empty Child, The Girl in the Fireplace and Fear Her, two of which were Moffats and the other one is best forgotten. And in oldWho it's only really Adric and Susan. It was pretty remarkable for the high average age of the cast as every other episode seemed to feature a couple of old geezers in counsel somewere, and hardly ayone under 40. Also when Smith goes undercover he works in a toysshop, Tennant worked as a physics teacher.

I think you just remembered another one. ;)
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
this season feels much less aimed at kids than before. Its always been a family show, famous for 'watching from behind the sofa' for kids. But 'new who' has been fairly tame IMO, with a few exceptions here and there. But this season has been pretty scary - its the first season my son has sat on the sofa with a cushion on his lap, peeking through his fingers at the silence etc.
 

beril

Member
maharg said:
I think you just remembered another one. ;)

doh.. I guess there's also kids who play pretty important roles in both family of blood and the idiot's lantern as well now that I think about it


mrklaw said:
this season feels much less aimed at kids than before. Its always been a family show, famous for 'watching from behind the sofa' for kids. But 'new who' has been fairly tame IMO, with a few exceptions here and there. But this season has been pretty scary - its the first season my son has sat on the sofa with a cushion on his lap, peeking through his fingers at the silence etc.

Just to clarify; when I said it felt more targetted towards kids; I didn't mean that it's more tame or less scary or less violent. It just feels like the stories are told a bit closer to a childs perspective and made easier for kids to relate to. I always felt that Moffats episodes in the old series had a bit of a fairy tale vibe to them for some reason (which I really liked), and that has in part carried over to the entire series now.
 
DVD Info:

dvd6.jpg


All 13 episodes of Series 6 together with host of exclusive extras arrive on DVD and Blu ray from 21st November, priced £51.05 and £61.27. Episodes are also available on download to own.

Doctor Who Complete Series 6 Boxset showcases a wealth of added bonus material including 13 Doctor Who Confidential’s for each episode, last year’s Christmas episode, A Christmas Carol, 4 Monster Files and 4 episode commentaries. Also, never been seen before, five specially written and created mini episodes entitled Night and the Doctor - a series of short films written by showrunner Steven Moffat exclusively for the DVD release

Doctor Who Complete Series 6 is also available in a Limited Edition numbered Boxset that features a Silence head in terrifying 3D as well as four lenticular art cards! (Featured above and below.)

EXTRAS
4 Monster Files
4 episode commentaries
13 Confidential Cut Downs
A Christmas Carol
Doctor Who Confidential, The Nights Tale
5 x Night and the Doctor
5 "prequels"

http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2011/09/doctor-who-complete-sixth-series-boxset.html
 
I'm tempted to save the Night and the Doctor mini-sodes for January through May of next year. I'll stretch them out during the long wait for season 7.

Death is the Only Answer is apparently airing on BBC 1 this weekend as well.
 

Quick

Banned
So the Blu-ray and DVD for the complete sixth season is coming out on November 21 (UK) and 22 (North America). I was hoping they'd use this cover, but the covers we get are cool anyway. Sort of partial to the UK cover purely because it has the main cast on it, but the NA cover looks badass.

51chYAnmGIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
51ZbB0c9utL._AA300_.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom