Hot Coldman
Banned
Eh, the Doctor's death invoking the end of the universe at least makes sense this time. If he's constantly being defeated, of course people are gonna die.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
- Start date
- Status
KibblesBits
Member
I've been speculating a lot about what would cause Doctor 8.5 to be cast out of the line of Doctors. I'm starting to wonder if it has anything to do with Susan.
Credit where credit is due. This one actually made sense for a change.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I wouldn't mind a more personal villain next season, that does not involve the destruction of TIME AND SPACE!!!""111
Thought the master would be it, but nooope.
Thought the master would be it, but nooope.
Loved this episode and felt it made up for the rest of the season. At the last scene I was like the tenth doctor: "what... what... WHAT!"
In the scene where they all meet in their dreams, and they unveil the coordinates to Trentalore in the shape of bunch of holographic clocks, the music sounds exactly like the intro music for Chrono Trigger. Probably just a coincidence but if intentional it's a pretty good nod.
In the scene where they all meet in their dreams, and they unveil the coordinates to Trentalore in the shape of bunch of holographic clocks, the music sounds exactly like the intro music for Chrono Trigger. Probably just a coincidence but if intentional it's a pretty good nod.
Barkley's Justice
Member
I think John Hurt's character is David Tennant's doctor, the one they left in that alternate reality with Rose.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
If the Tennant failed against davros the reality bomb would wipe out the universe.
It did. I agree with others that more time would've been nice with Clara before tasking the character with such a vital role throughout the Doctor's entire history, but that's forgivable. At the same time, the entire 'Silence Will Fall' storyline is so damn convoluted, I'd really prefer he just wrapped the damn thing up once and for all... and I'm not sure he has.
As for John Hurt... I love the man. But what the hell is going on?
[I've a feeling that's exactly the feeling Moffat wanted from the reveal.]
Am I right in assuming that John Hurt is the Time War Doctor? If so, that's pretty fucking boss. Way to pull out an awesome actor like Hurt for the role.
I thought Vastra's "The stars are going out," line was a nice callback to that, since that's how Rose and later Donna knew about what was going on.
Just a random thought, and I'm probably over-thinking it... but who dug the secret entrance to the TARDIS? Assuming the Doctor is dead, who put together the secret entrance and knew well enough to put River's tombstone over it?
(Just repeat to yourself, it's just a show, I should really just relax.)
Oh, and we never got an answer as to who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number. River seems unlikely at this point, so I'm guessing either Rose, or an earlier version of Clara herself. Or Susan. Susan would be a cool resolution.
EDIT: Looking up John Hurt on IMDB, and man, I knew he was in a lot of stuff, but some of it blows me away. King Ralph? The Tigger Movie? I knew he was in Alien, but I had no idea he reprised the role for the gag at the end of Spaceballs.
I don't think so, I think it is as I think some have said and judging by what it is wearing the link between events after the eight and ninth Doctors. Something happened in that time period.
Knowing Moffat's habit of giving the Doctor future knowledge and using it to close gaps, the Doctor likely tells someone - whoever happens to survive his final battle - to place a secret entrance there so the loop works.
I'd like to know as well, but again... knowing Moffat? Probably the Doctor himself gave the wrong service number to the 'girl who sold' the computer to her.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Well, that was certainly Moffat's best finale. If only for the final moment. Honestly, that shot of Hurt with his back turned, and the line "What I did... I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity". It's going to be genuinely thrilling to see him play off against Smith and Tennant.
Arguably if The Doctor never existed to live until that point, Davros wouldn't be the way he was.
Arguably if The Doctor never existed to live until that point, Davros wouldn't be the way he was.
I'm still partial to Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang and also think Angels In Manhattan was far better as well, but this episode wasn't nearly as bad as the Wedding of River Song. What a clusterfuck that was.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
This is probably another dropped plot point that Moffat has forgotten about. Much like the exploding TARDIS, or Trenzalore being a place where 'no living being can speak falsely or fail to answer' (cue the Doctor failing to answer while at Trenzalore).
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Way more satisfying than Big Bang and Angels for me, don't quite know why. Maybe, as I say, it's just because I fucking love the idea of Hurt as a dark incarnation of The Doctor. Like, best idea Moffat's had yet.
I also really liked Clara interacting with the past Doctors, was way better done than I thought it would be. Limited in the sense that we couldn't see how she actually saved those Doctors, but exciting to watch nontheless.
I'm really tired of the Paternoster gang, barring Strax. He had some excellent moments, but I just don't get them as a team, and Moffat's lack of willingness to perma-kill one of them was irritating.
Also, so... is River gone? Like... gone gone?
I liked the io9 review of NotD; "We've all been wondering if Moffatt has some grand plan for Doctor Who. After this episode, it's very clear he doesn't". I think he gives the illusion in interviews of someone that's been scheming since the dark days after the 80's, but actually is just making it up as he goes along. Which is absolutely fine, just... wish he wouldn't pretend.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I'll be surprised if we see River again.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Unless Moffat is leaving the show immediately, I'm sure we will (to my chagrin). He really can't let the character go. Even now, he's found a way to bring back a post-library River for this episode. I'm sure we're going to see him doing stuff with her again.
The Elite
BOSS
I got the impression that he brought back Post-Library River to say goodbye to the character.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The telepathic link thing was really incredibly just a piece of plotolium
Hot Coldman
Banned
We were always going to see her again after her wedding (as much as I would have adored to see the Doctor's last encounter with his wife being their wedding). I don't mind that- but then again, I like River.
But you don't write a goodbye scene like the one in NotD without it being a true goodbye.
The Doctor did say "you should have faded by now", as if the Library was not meant to be a permanent or eternal place for River. I'd be happy enough if her story was done, there were plenty of adventures for the two of them pre-Closing Time and post-AtM that don't really need to be seen on screen. Wouldn't be too upset if she came back, either, just so long as it isn't some massive retcon (which her appearance here was not).
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I sort of wish he mentioned Amy/Rory... or at least talked about them. Feels disingenuous when you've got the daughter of the character on screen. Which is really weird, because I hated when Tennant wouldn't stop banging on about Rose.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
While that may have been the intention, I just don't really see how Moffat will resist the urge to bring her back from some earlier point in her timeline. He's too attached to the character, and the out of order nature of her means that he doesn't even have to deal with it being after that goodbye scene.
I hope you're right and we don't see her again, but I've already braced myself for the worst.
Hot Coldman
Banned
It would be very dissatisfying to see her come back now. I'd like to think he'd have paid attention to the sour taste bringing back Rose left in people's mouths.
Although I guess he is bringing back Rose himself, so maybe not.
Although I guess he is bringing back Rose himself, so maybe not.
This. We need more scenes of random workers on Gallifrey. Street cleaners, garbage men, etc.
Imagine a Doctor lite episode that revolved around the mundane life of a garbage man on Gallifrey and how he gets tangled up into some wibbly wobbly timey wimey plot involving the Doc. Hrgnh...fanwank
I'd be perfectly happy for him to be the 'Time War Doctor/Time War <Doctor's Name>', so long as it doesn't try to hand wave away either McGann or Eccleston from existence. I mean, I've wanted something Time War related since I first got into the show, but not at a Doctor's expense.
bengraven
Member
God, you must be so much fun to hang out with on Saturdays.
"Let's go..."
"No, I have to watch this show that I've hated since Moffat took over..."
"Why not just stop watching it...?"
"Because NeoGAF..."
peanutbutterlatte
Member
So who else thought for a minute that River Song was on Simeon's side and actually had been evil THE WHOLE TIME?
I hope River is mostly gone, but I wouldn't be against her making a brief cameo for Eleven's regeneration. They could bookend it quite nicely with him first meeting her when she dies, and last meeting her when he kind of dies.
I hope Amy and Rory (maybe as kids) make an appearance then too.
I hope Amy and Rory (maybe as kids) make an appearance then too.
We've already seen the last time he meets her.
"Included with the series six DVD release, the exclusive-to-DVD bonus serial Night and the Doctor (2011) features River in the episodes "First Night" and "Last Night". During the serial, the Doctor attempts to take River on a date shortly after she imprisoned in Stormcage, but their time in the TARDIS is interrupted by two future incarnations of River, and all are in turn suspicious of the signs of "another woman" being aboard the TARDIS. The Doctor is able to be rid of the two future Rivers, but not before learning from his future self that one of them is shortly to die in the Library adventure where he first met her."
terrdactycalsrock
Member
Yeah I really enjoyed the scene with the garage workers. Because the only experience I have with time lords besides the doctor and the master are the pompous guys in big hats we see in tenants last episodes
I meant last from his point of view.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
He wouldn't be me from Eleventh's point of view.
On this possibility in general: Great way to put the cancellation to good use, as it's not something they could pull off so well if we'd actually seen an uninterrupted line of regenerations.Hex said:
My problem with the episode was that the kidnapped friends were "only" Jenny/Strax and Vastra. But speaking to a friend at work we realised there wasn't really anyone else.
He suggested Martha and Mickey which would be -interesting, but-just as bad I think. Without Amy and Rory and Rose and Donna I guess it kinda comes down to whoever the hell's left and that's why we got the above trio. The GI threatening River with death is a non-possibility.
I definitely would've liked some acknowledgement of Amy and Rory, if only to make River and Clara's interactions more natural and less forced I guess.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Nah I think it's good they kept it in Moffat's era, but there's just something about the Paternoster Gang that doesn't feel right to me... they're certainly not enough to warrant their own spinoff.
KibblesBits
Member
There's a difference between Time Lords and Gallifreyans. Time Lords wouldn't be out and about doing menial labor like street cleaning and watching a garage I think.
This goes right into what I was saying about the Moffat's vision being Science Fairy Tale. Kids aren't waiting for Moffat to answer these questions, they're just filling in the gaps themselves and adjusting as new information comes to light. This kind of integration is how kids learn, because there's such a vast amount of unknown information for them to consume it kind of has to be, and it's also how they consume stories.
Think back to when you were a kid and watching Who or Star Trek or whatever. Did the dangling plotlines matter or were you too busy imagining your own adventures to fill in the gaps?
I thought about that too, but I think he was referring to her fading from the connection she was holding with Clara.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Maharg, "it's for kids" doesn't really excuse the poor plotline closure. It'd be like if in Harry Potter Voldemort vowed revenge in Chamber of Secrets then never came back again, and he was just never mentioned and it was another random dark wizard.
"It's for kids" does not automatically = "It has to be wishy washy with the basis of a plot structure."
"It's for kids" does not automatically = "It has to be wishy washy with the basis of a plot structure."
I seriously can not stop watching that ending scene.
I love how he's able to both look sad and angry, at least in my opinion.
Not really. Presumably somehow the GI caused him to go to the wrong TARDIS and Clara fixed it by getting him to go to the correct one. Maybe even just by unlocking the one next to it that The Doctor had tried first, but failed to enter, in the original timeline.
I neither said "it's for kids" nor excused "poor plotline closure". I do, however, think that it's perfectly acceptable to have persistent mysteries. It's not like there were absolutely no unclosed threads or greater mysteries in Harry Potter either.
But I was specifically explaining why kids don't think about these things the way we as adults tend to. And I do think that leaving some of these things open does give kids something to latch on to and engage their own imagination. I think the show is probably the most kid-friendly it's been for a very long time (note: not "for kids").
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I am almost frustrated that more "John Hurt is a fucking boss" discussion is not going on in this thread. I have that cliffhanger on loop. It's amazing.
HNGGGH
Bobby Roberts
Banned
IS that a real poster? it looks like they photoshopped his head onto Cumberbatch's body from Star Trek.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Official BBC Doctor Who FB page, so I'd think so. It does look a little weird, but I'm on a hype train right now.
He's clearly Dr. Who and the Dalek's Peter Cushing's Doctor
APZonerunner
Member
It's not real, no. Wouldn't think so, anyway - doesn't follow the branding the BBC uses for posters and things in terms of the BBC logos etc, doesn't have the date of the show, and the BBC has actually retired the version of the Who logo with the 'DW' in the middle now completely and use one with it at the end.
It's also not his costume... his costume is, like, the 8th Doctor's Victorian stuff underneath the 9th's Jacket.
It's also not his costume... his costume is, like, the 8th Doctor's Victorian stuff underneath the 9th's Jacket.
Seems to be the case.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Ah, it isn't actually official. Goddamn. Still, pretty cool.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
So that's his costume at some point. Huh.
Was kinda expecting his last moments to be in Nine's jacket & shirt, and Nine was in such a hurry to get the hell away from what he did that he never actually stopped to change clothes.
edit: nevermind, apparently it is fan-art.
Was kinda expecting his last moments to be in Nine's jacket & shirt, and Nine was in such a hurry to get the hell away from what he did that he never actually stopped to change clothes.
edit: nevermind, apparently it is fan-art.
- Status