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[Patryn]

I have seen all smith seasons. I haven't watched the others as I've been told they aren't as good. I have watched bits and pieces of the first season of the reboot. I remember an episode where a bin comes to life and eats someone? maybe it was a different show.

to stay on point, have I been given bad advice? are the earlier seasons as good as the current ones?

They're different. I almost want to say that they're.... broader? I feel that RTD made a much more family friendly show, so they're often full of silly concepts.

Expect a lot more hand-wavy stuff going on and a more bombastic approach.

But there are some truly excellent episodes in there that rival or surpass the best of the Smith episodes. Episodes like Blink and Midnight, for instance.

 

[Lkr]

I think the best episodes are all pre-Smith. The game show ep in s1, and then quite a few s2 episodes are really just fantastic

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I think the best episodes are all pre-Smith. The game show ep in s1, and then quite a few s2 episodes are really just fantastic

I think Smith has the best episodes by far

 

[Sotha Sil]

I have seen all smith seasons. I haven't watched the others as I've been told they aren't as good. I have watched bits and pieces of the first season of the reboot. I remember an episode where a bin comes to life and eats someone? maybe it was a different show.

to stay on point, have I been given bad advice? are the earlier seasons as good as the current ones?

I used to think the same, and was quite surprised by seasons 2 and 3; many episodes rival and several surpass the Moffat run (granted, few of those were written by Moffat himself). The Smith era is consistently good, but the great Tennant episodes are something else - in my opinion.

 

[Patryn]

I used to think the same, and was quite surprised by seasons 2 and 3; many episodes rival and several surpass the Moffat run (granted, few of those were written by Moffat himself). The Smith era is consistently good, but the great Tennant episodes are something else - in my opinion.

Yeah. The Smith series are consistently good. But they don't have both the ridiculous highs and the ridiculous lows that the RTD era had.

During the Tennant era I sometime felt like I was playing roulette. I never knew if what I was about to watch was going to knock it out of the park or be absolutely terrible (Last of the Time Lords, Fear Her to name the two more egregious examples).

 

[Sotha Sil]

Yeah. The Smith series are consistently good. But they don't have both the ridiculous highs and the ridiculous lows that the RTD era had.

During the Tennant era I sometime felt like I was playing roulette. I never knew if what I was about to watch was going to knock it out of the park or be absolutely terrible (Last of the Time Lords, Fear Her to name the two more egregious examples).

That's exactly it. "Man, this 42 wasn't so hot... On to Human Nature ... Damn!" Quite the roller coaster.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Not even Peterson? Turn in your geek card, stat!

:O I even had him on my FTL crew earlier today, but I didn't recognize Brian as him.

He will write it, I'm sure. 7 could work, too, as he looks quite old in the movie when he cops it and McCoy has aged quite well in general. No earlier, though.

Well, there's already precedent for Five showing up and them handwaving the extra aging away.

 

[Ventilaator]

I think the best episodes are all pre-Smith.

Totally. Starting with the Smith run is what everyone tells people to do when they want to get into the show. Why do people want new potential fans to skip all the good parts?

 

[The Technomancer]

I think there are a handful of Smith episodes that I would call "the best" but I find myself rewatching Tennent and Eccleston episodes more often.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Blimey, this laugh is gonna be the end of me.

 

[Exterminieren]

It would be a crying shame were people to ignore the RTD years.

On average I enjoy the Moffat stuff more, but a Who collection without Gridlock or Midnight or Human Nature in it is just incomplete.

 

[APZonerunner]

I used to think the same, and was quite surprised by seasons 2 and 3; many episodes rival and several surpass the Moffat run (granted, few of those were written by Moffat himself). The Smith era is consistently good, but the great Tennant episodes are something else - in my opinion.

They're different. I almost want to say that they're.... broader? I feel that RTD made a much more family friendly show, so they're often full of silly concepts.

Expect a lot more hand-wavy stuff going on and a more bombastic approach.

But there are some truly excellent episodes in there that rival or surpass the best of the Smith episodes. Episodes like Blink and Midnight, for instance.

I'd agree with these points 100%. That's why you often find me defending RTD in this thread - he's less consistent than Moffat, but when he scored, he really, really scored. I'd agree about the show being a little broader, sillier, and more family friendly, too. Moffat does deep stories with cool time travel twists, whereas RTD stories tend to be heavy on emotional manipulation of the viewer and are willing to sacrifice time explaining or showing sci-fi concepts in favour of some scene with emotion demonstrating the strength of the human spirit and whatnot.

It's interesting as I think Moffat's characters - Matt's Doctor, Amy, Rory - are actually a lot more full of whimsy and fun than those of RTD's era. I think that's a deliberate choice, to balance out the often mature plot threads Moffat uses. When things are getting timey-wimey and complex and the 8-year-olds are getting bored, Matt bouncing around keeps them interested. RTD's era does more family friendly stuff in its actual stories - but there's a lot of darkness and sadness in the characters of that era and what happens to them, and a really nasty narcissistic streak in Tennant's Doctor, often hidden under over-the-top grinning and skipping about happily, as discussed a few pages ago (In this sense I think Tenant is only second McCoy's Doctor for being a bastard manipulator.)

Where Moffat does have dark characters, it's in subtext - like the subtext of how the Doctor has essentially fucked up Amy's childhood and later life. It steps out of the shadow occasionally, like the Voice Interface scene in Let's Kill Hitler - and no surprise, there, companions from that era were used to demonstrate the fact. "There must be somebody I haven't screwed up yet!" This stuff is a more core theme of RTD's era. That's fine - I really like how this is a less important theme now, as we had a lot of that in 2005-2010, and it makes when Matt has these moments really special, as he's a hell of an actor.

They're two eras but of very much the same show, and both have wonderful things and less wonderful things about them. It's all Doctor Who, and it all deserves watching. (Except possibly Fear Her.)

Clay, if you go back and watch, please let us know about your experience. It'd be interesting to see how those series' stand to someone who has already seen what the future is.

 

[Lkr]

I don't remember if it was the first half of s5 or s6(whichever had the pirates), but that stretch of episodes was horrific, and was worse than any streak of RTD episodes.

 

[Exterminieren]

I don't remember if it was the first half of s5 or s6(whichever had the pirates), but that stretch of episodes was horrific, and was worse than any streak of RTD episodes.

The pirate episode was terrible, agreed, but it was sandwiched by the Astronaut two-parter and The Doctor's Wife, which are two of the best things the show has done.

 

[Lkr]

I know people love the doctors wife but I couldn't get into it. The two parter before a good man goes to war was also meh to me

 

[BattleMonkey]

I think the best episodes are all pre-Smith. The game show ep in s1, and then quite a few s2 episodes are really just fantastic

Yup. While I like Smith and some of the episodes, I think the run has been one of the weaker ones. So many dud episodes in Smiths run

 

[Little Old Man]

Is it just me or is this season rather lackluster? I have not been feeling any of these episodes so far. The last one was probably the best so far but got destroyed by the terrible ending.

I've really not enjoyed this series so far. It feels like it is back in the RTD days at times. Lack of two parters is hurting it, the writing doesn't feel great, and the good connection the Doc and Amy had seems to have vanished. Rory is the better companion by far currently.

More episodes like Empty Child, Dalek, Impossible Planet, Blink, Human Nature, Silence in the Library, Waters of Mars, Time of the Angels, and The Impossible Astronaut please!

Guess I have to accept this is a family show, and it will never be what I want it to be.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Lkr's here to say all the things we'd never, it seems.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yup. While I like Smith and some of the episodes, I think the run has been one of the weaker ones. So many dud episodes in Smiths run

There were plenty of duds with RTD as well. I think personally that most of those duds were at least interesting to watch in a cringing way though, while the duds of the last few seasons (Curse of the Black Spot, Lets Kill Hitler, Victory of the Daleks, and yes Vincent and the Doctor and Vampires of Venice (come at me!)) were just...kinda dull.

 

[Lkr]

Lkr's here to say all the things we'd never, it seems.

It is my job to have the unpopular opinion.
I actually thought this series has been good, funny enough. Least favorite was probably dinosaurs, but I didn't zone out through it like I have with other smith eps

 

[Gully State]

My reaction to Conan announcing Karen Gillan and Doctor Who.

Two things I didn't expect to go together.

Yup pretty much this...she has an incredibly adorable laugh...

 

[Lkr]

There were plenty of duds with RTD as well. I think personally that those duds were at least interesting to watch in a cringing way though, while the duds of the last few seasons (Curse of the Black Spot, Lets Kill Hitler, and yes, Vincent and the Doctor and Vampires of Venice (come at me!)) were just...kinda dull.

You didn't like Vincent and the Doctor? I know the ending kinda bends the show's rules but it was still far from a dud if you look at other Smith eps. Lets kill Hitler had too much potential for what they ended up doing with it though
I hope Conan is available on demand when I get home this afternoon

 

[hamchan]

Davies run definitely felt like it had greater highs, much more epic moments. I always just boot up an ep and rewatch the great moments from the RTD era. I actually liked Moffat much more when he was writing in the RTD era than him as a showrunner.

 

[The Technomancer]

Vincent and the Doctor...eh...I'm trying to figure out how to articulate why I didn't like it that much. A bit of artist-worship here, a bit of "this alien feels shoehorned in more then usual" there, a bit directionless...I just don't remember it too fondly. Dud may be a bit strong but I don't really like it

 

[Future Foundation]

Davies run definitely felt like it had greater highs, much more epic moments. I always just boot up an ep and rewatch the great moments from the RTD era. I actually liked Moffat much more when he was writing in the RTD era than him as a showrunner.

When he was on, Davies' stuff was awesome.

Unfortunately, it felt Davies tended to take "epic" a little too far (i.e. "Last of the Time Lords", "Voyage of the Damned", "EoT Pts 1&2").


And there is no bigger "dud" that Fear Her. Fuck that noise. The last ten minutes of Love and Monsters were an abomination.

 

[Patryn]

When he was on, Davies' stuff was awesome.

Unfortunately, it felt Davies tended to take "epic" a little too far (i.e. "Last of the Time Lords", "Voyage of the Damned", "EoT Pts 1&2").


And there is no bigger "dud" that Fear Her. Fuck that noise. The last ten minutes of Love and Monsters were an abomination.

RTD has the same problem as Stephen King: Dude can really write a beginning and part of a middle, but can't end his stuff to save his life.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

When he was on, Davies' stuff was awesome.

Unfortunately, it felt Davies tended to take "epic" a little too far (i.e. "Last of the Time Lords", "Voyage of the Damned", "EoT Pts 1&2").


And there is no bigger "dud" that Fear Her. Fuck that noise. The last ten minutes of Love and Monsters were an abomination.

Is love and monsters that episode with, you know, the... brick?
There is nothing worse than that in the entirety of New Who.

There were plenty of duds with RTD as well. I think personally that most of those duds were at least interesting to watch in a cringing way though, while the duds of the last few seasons (Curse of the Black Spot, Lets Kill Hitler, Victory of the Daleks, and yes Vincent and the Doctor and Vampires of Venice (come at me!)) were just...kinda dull.

I was with you up to the last two.

Vincent and the Doctor had some really wonderful throwbacks to the early Dr Who series (even if they were minor) and the portrayal of Vincent was amazing, and the Vampires of Venice was just the start of Rory's path to manhood by making him actually put the doctor in his place (he still ended up playing as a pawn of the doctor in the end, but whatever).

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

So, Jenna-Louise Coleman may or may not on this BBC Four drama, and she may or may not have gone topless.

Brah is it suppose to be in part one or two?

 

[Ventilaator]

RTD has the same problem as Stephen King: Dude can really write a beginning and part of a middle, but can't end his stuff to save his life.

I think Moffat suffers from that way more than RTD ever did. I don't know how anyone could rewatch the Library two parter or the Astronaut two parter without starting to hate everything about Moffat's run. An ungodly amount of potential just flushed away for nothing.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I don't have a problem with Moffat's endings. I fucking love the ending to Day of the Moon ("You should kill us on sight!", such a good twist), and the only one that ever felt rushed to me was Beast Below.

 

[Future Foundation]

Brah is it suppose to be in part one or two?

It's a multiple part thing, not sure how many. I think she's only (topless) in one. But it is wonderful.

Or so I've heard. <_< >_>

 

[Patryn]

I think Moffat suffers from that way more than RTD ever did. I don't know how anyone could rewatch the Library two parter or the Astronaut two parter without starting to hate everything about Moffat's run. An ungodly amount of potential just flushed away for nothing.

Moffat didn't write Last of the Time Lords. QED: RTD is worse at endings.

 

[Exterminieren]

Vincent and the Doctor...eh...I'm trying to figure out how to articulate why I didn't like it that much. A bit of artist-worship here, a bit of "this alien feels shoehorned in more then usual" there, a bit directionless...I just don't remember it too fondly. Dud may be a bit strong but I don't really like it

Alien shoehorned in? In Vincent and the Doctor?

I really can't deal with that. That alien was utterly perfect, 100% suited to the story and effectively done. Best one-off monster for a long, long time.

 

[Future Foundation]

Is love and monsters that episode with, you know, the... brick?
There is nothing worse than that in the entirety of New Who.

Yes, Moaning Myrtle as a brick. The shitty thing was I really liked the episode right up to the monster reveal.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

I don't have a problem with Moffat's endings. I fucking love the ending to Day of the Moon ("You should kill us on sight!", such a good twist), and the only one that ever felt rushed to me was Beast Below.

It was a bit bizarre that the Silence would say that though.
I'd agree that Moffat's set-ups are much better than his endings, since he took over. I thought Day of the Moon was a bit of a mess.

 

[The Technomancer]

It was a bit bizarre that the Silence would say that though.
I'd agree that Moffat's set-ups are much better than his endings, since he took over. I thought Day of the Moon was a bit of a mess.

Huh, Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon might be my favorite episodes to come out of the last few series', easily.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Davies run definitely felt like it had greater highs, much more epic moments. I always just boot up an ep and rewatch the great moments from the RTD era. I actually liked Moffat much more when he was writing in the RTD era than him as a showrunner.

here's the breakdown from my point of view, good eps are bolded:

Rose -good pacey reintroduction to the doctor.
The End of the World - fun romp to finish up reintroducing the doctor
The Unquiet Dead -decentish
Aliens of London
World War Three - slitheen stuff is a bit childish, harriet jones is fairly fun
Dalek - great dalek reintroduction, really good work by eclestone here
The Long Game - some fun gameshow jabs. pegg!
Father's Day - fun paradox story
The Empty Child
The Doctor Dances - creepy, fun, and richard wilson
Boom Town - boring apart from the doctor stopping transmatting
Bad Wolf
The Parting of the Ways - good lead up, bad deus ex, brilliant last words.
The Christmas Invasion - meh story. shadow proclamation & "tired" were fun though

New Earth - snoozeville
Tooth and Claw - snoozeville II
School Reunion - brilliant guest stars(head, sladen, leeson), bit of a clanger of a story, but the guests make it fun enough.
The Girl in the Fireplace - brilliant.
Rise of the Cybermen
The Age of Steel - some good idea (parallel), but the altcybs were rather boring.

The Idiot's Lantern - okayish
The Impossible Planet
The Satan Pit - Great stuff. One of the very, very, few times we see something totally outside of the doctors understanding
Love & Monsters - boring
Fear Her - meh
Army of Ghosts
Doomsday - worth it just for the dalek/cybs interplay. The only RTD finale not to deus ex hard.
The Runaway Bride - not that fun. Tate was not as good a companion as she would later become.

Smith and Jones - great idea (impounding on the moon), but kinda boring in execution
The Shakespeare Code - "the paper's blank". great stuff
Gridlock - eternal traffic jam was done well
Daleks in Manhattan
Evolution of the Daleks - that accent. that suited dalek. bad bad bad bad. limitless potential not realised
The Lazarus Experiment - felt like added backstory to the finale(which it is, but it shouldn't be so obvious).
42 - average
Human Nature
The Family of Blood - brilliant stuff. vengeful doc is always interesting too.
Blink - one of the best who eps ever. the idea of the angels was brilliant. the execution of the idea was brilliant. how the doc was used was brilliant.
Utopia
The Sound of Drums
Last of the Time Lords -Another RTD deus ex machina. starts off brilliantly at the end of time, and with the masters take over of earth. gollum doctor is moronic, as is how that is reversed.
Time Crash - yes(not included in count).
Voyage of the Damned - had richard from "keeping up apperances", which is almost enough to save the snoozefest, but _not_quite_enough_

Partners in Crime - better tate, but still rather boring.
The Fires of Pompeii - where tate found her stride. great aztec-style debate between her and the doc in this ep.
Planet of the Ood
The Sontaran Stratagem
The Poison Sky
The Doctor's Daughter
The Unicorn and the Wasp - five boring episodes in a row, thankfully next we got the most sustained excellance in modern who...
Silence in the Library
Forest of the Dead - good "villains". good "weird stuff with good explantion"(dr moon). never been a great fan of river, but everything else was pulled off well.
Midnight - love "turn on perfect strangers" stuff like this
Turn Left
The Stolen Earth
Journey's End - if it wasn't for "yet another rtd deus ex", this three parter would be the greatest WHO related thing ever. so very good. only other thing I can say against it is that the shadow proclamation were crap after their big build up.
The Next Doctor - boring

Planet of the Dead - boring
waters of mars - triple boring
The End of Time -barely got bolded. Just edges on the other side of voyage of the damned, here Timothy Dalton is just enough to make this fun to watch, spittle and all.

The Eleventh Hour - oh hey, it's "smith and jones" again but on a larger scale. bit more fun this time around though.
The Beast Below - criminal misuse of "the demon headmaster" like this should be an offense under the law
Victory of the Daleks - bit of a letdown given the promise of the premise
The Time of Angels
Flesh and Stone - rather boring overall - the bit with blinded amy and the doc was nice
Vampires of Venice - boring
Amy's Choice - okayish
The Hungry Earth
Cold Blood - boringgggggggg even with rory
Vincent and the Doctor - ending saves it, really silly "villain" here.
The Lodger - corden, yuck
The Pandorica Opens
The Big Bang - worst nuwho finale. good setup ruined by another deus ex and we still don't know who that voice was years later.
A Christmas Carol - best christmas special. Story wasn't that great, but Gambon made this.

The Impossible Astronaut
Day of the Moon - only big nuwho multi ep "finale" without any trace of a deus ex. fantastic resolution.
The Curse of the Black Spot - boring
The Doctor's Wife - brilliant lore ep.
The Rebel Flesh
The Almost People - terribly boring two parter that ended on a amazing point.
A Good Man Goes to War - big finale feel but not really that great

Let's Kill Hitler
Night Terrors
The Girl Who Waited
The God Complex
Closing Time
The Wedding of River Song - I disliked this entire block, but none moreso then the wedding ep. having a stand in is enough to stop things....urgh

The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe - boring

Asylum of the Daleks - pretty fun stuff, need more old school dalek action. nice twist
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship - real old school who. loved it
A Town Called Mercy - a moral in search of an episode
The Power of Three - fiveminstogothisisthevillainbyenowoppsforgottosaveotherpeopleonship

so:

RTD
s1 9/14
s2 6/14
s3 7/14
s4 7/14
sp 1/3

SM
s1 4/14
s2 3/14
s3 2/4

So I'd agree with the writing over showrunning thing. Moffat did deliver the only big story line multiparter without any hind of a deus ex though (astronaut/moon).

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Just picked up a TARDIS Cookie Jar for my daughter. When you open it up, it plays the TARDIS noises.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

It was a bit bizarre that the Silence would say that though.
I'd agree that Moffat's set-ups are much better than his endings, since he took over. I thought Day of the Moon was a bit of a mess.

Well the reason the Silence said it was a trick....Canton had tricked them into saying that, and then recorded it. Brilliant!

That being said...WHERE THE FUCK IS CANTON. BRING HIM BACK!

 

[The Technomancer]

The Fires of Pompeii - where tate found her stride. great aztec-style debate between her and the doc in this ep.

Yes. My vote for probably the most under-appreciated episode of the revival. I mean, its not as great as some of the best, but...

 

[The Elite]

Just picked up a TARDIS Cookie Jar for my daughter. When you open it up, it plays the TARDIS noises.

Yup. I own it. I use it for tea bags. The TARDIS noises have stopped now though. Need to replace the battery.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Yup. I own it. I use it for tea bags. The TARDIS noises have stopped now though. Need to replace the battery.

interesting implementation of it-we actually don't want to tell her it's a COOKIE jar, as we want to stress healthy eating...trying to think of healthy snacks we could put in there for her.

 

[The Technomancer]

interesting implementation of it-we actually don't want to tell her it's a COOKIE jar, as we want to stress healthy eating...trying to think of healthy snacks we could put in there for her.

Apples

 

[The Elite]

Apples

With smiley faces.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Put some fig rolls in that mother.

 

[Sotha Sil]

here's the breakdown from my point of view, good eps are bolded:

I agree for the most part, but I can't believe you called The Waters of Mars "triple boring". I love it. Good monsters; depressed, fatalistic Tenth; makes you think it's going for the feel-good finale, then suddenly takes a turn to the grim. Tenth's dark side is pretty compelling (well, everything's relative; Doctor Who-wise, I mean).

 

[The Elite]

I've actually seen it repackaged as an Ice Box.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I've actually seen it repackaged as an Ice Box.

Inside:

 

[Exterminieren]

Yes. My vote for probably the most under-appreciated episode of the revival. I mean, its not as great as some of the best, but...

Yep.

James Moran the writer did some of the best Torchwood episodes, and has promising-looking movies coming out. Baffles me that he hasn't written another Who episode.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Yep.

James Moran the writer did some of the best Torchwood episodes, and has promising-looking movies coming out. Baffles me that he hasn't written another Who episode.

Torchwood's first season was so awful - again, my opinion - that I didn't bother watching the rest. Does it get better, then?