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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
balladofwindfishes
Member
Underlord has had public colored art since early 2013 lol
So whack. This push dota is awful. I'm longing for bulldong, who would have thought.
What the hell was the Rosh plan? Not like they were big enough to team wipe and then take a tower or two.
Rtz void please, Mason Mirana and then ppd Alch (tho alch, meh) would have made a difference
What the hell was the Rosh plan? Not like they were big enough to team wipe and then take a tower or two.
Rtz void please, Mason Mirana and then ppd Alch (tho alch, meh) would have made a difference
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Why is it awful?
FlutterPuffs
Member
JakOfTheShadows
Member
Look like ixmike was able to RTZ's mom this year. That guy...
Not at all entertaining. It's just a bummer that on a stage like this a game could be won in such fashion. I suck and I could have been playing that Veno and the team would have accomplished the same way. Theres not time for anything to really develop, you get exactly what you know you're going to get out of the characters.
It's different people complaining about each thing. Personally I like rat doto but dislike 5-man pushing strategies. Obviously there will be people with opposite opinions.
Captain Fish
Member
EG wins game 2 on the back of Universe's godlike play, and then gives that hero to a different player...
I'm sad to see DK out, hopefully the finals are exciting!
I'm sad to see DK out, hopefully the finals are exciting!
get your head out of your ass
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
The current meta rewards this style of 5 man retard push. We've seen plenty of complaints about it on here but that's just where the meta is at.
I don't blame VG for playing that way, it's successful and there's a shitton of money on the line. But that style of play does not make for exciting games from a viewer's perspective, in my opinion, and many obviously agree.
These Chinese teams are unpopular because they play insanely safe and it's not interesting to watch. Tomorrow will be more Razor, Shaman, Furion, Brew, etc. Pretty confident the hero pool between all five games doesn't crack 20 heroes.
People traditionally like teams like Navi and C9 etc. because they will do unconventional drafts that work. These Chinese teams don't, and won't. Congrats to them as they clearly outplayed everyone and won a lot of money. But I don't know how it's so confusing to some that people don't enjoy it.
I don't blame VG for playing that way, it's successful and there's a shitton of money on the line. But that style of play does not make for exciting games from a viewer's perspective, in my opinion, and many obviously agree.
These Chinese teams are unpopular because they play insanely safe and it's not interesting to watch. Tomorrow will be more Razor, Shaman, Furion, Brew, etc. Pretty confident the hero pool between all five games doesn't crack 20 heroes.
People traditionally like teams like Navi and C9 etc. because they will do unconventional drafts that work. These Chinese teams don't, and won't. Congrats to them as they clearly outplayed everyone and won a lot of money. But I don't know how it's so confusing to some that people don't enjoy it.
neurosisxeno
Member
Get the hell oughta here with your logic.
Anyway, I'm not a fan of push strats or as it's cleverly called "objective-based gaming" because DotA was originally fun for the player versus player aspect of it, now it's all about strategically trading towers and ignoring fights as much as possible--or at least that seems to be the most successful take on it. It's not fun to watch a handful of 2-3 v 1's and people trading towers. Up through TI2 team fights were a really commong occurance, and it seems like they are becoming less common because they are too costly from a strategic standpoint. Which is understandable given what's on the line, but it's just not exciting to watch--at least not for everyone.
The best analogy I have is when someone throws a Perfect Game in Baseball. Yea, it takes a fuckload of skill, but it's only exciting for like 5 minutes when you watch the highlights. Watching the entire actual game is mind-numbingly terrible since nothing is really happening.
I agree that 5 man early deathball sucks (disclaimer I'm an Alliance fanboy and I enjoy the hell out of rat dota). Games like that require execution but they're over in the draft. There are no kills to speak of, it's just constant rotation from lane to lane clearing objectives. It's the most perfunctory and emotionless Dota possible. At least with rat dota there's a long buildup (usually full of kills), a lot of precise, creative tactical decision making, and the smallest fuck ups can lead to devastation in both directions. With a deathball lineup you know it's over when it starts and one team gets steamrolled so there's no payoff when the winning team eventually finishes.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I think we can all agree that Rat Dota needs a buff
Kappa
Kappa
As far as I can remember, the goal in DotA was always to push the ancient not to have the most exciting team fight. I'll take rat over 5-man-deathball personally, but they're both completely legitimate strategies and with millions of dollars on the line I'd play to win, not play to excite some viewers. High level, technical DotA is exciting to me regardless of the strategies used.
Yes plz
neurosisxeno
Member
5-man deathball is the newest iteration of effective strategies.
It started with 4p1, protecting your carry until he could plow through the enemy base. Then it kind of expanded out and having multiple cores who had big impact in teamfights--wipe their team and push towers. Then we saw last year the rise of rat dota (2013 was the year of the Rat), where you focused on objectives over conflicts, and we willing to throw your body at people if it meant stopping a push while a NP or LD pushed one of their lanes in. The next logical evolution is what we're seeing now--push as early as possible, and throw the idea of hard carries that can kill heroes away so you can focus on early game impact and taking structures.
Yes, destroying the ancient has always been the goal, but as the prize pools increased people shifted slowly from beating their opponents with big plays in team fights to distracting them and beating their base as fast as possible.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
if they "fix" 5man deathball push, it's gonna go back to either 4 protect 1 (60 min long games) or rat dota so i hope early pushes continue to be the meta. 4 protect 1 is boring to watch and can be a problem to play if the carry player is a dumbass (too much emphasis on one player, bad for matchmaking), and rat dota is just annoying as shit both to watch and play. 5man death push is the best meta this game can have
either way, i doubt they're gonna go back to 4 protect 1. it feels like they've been trying to make the matches shorter for a while now, since the drawn out games tend to piss people off more and overall cause them to be more negative towards the game (wrt to the players, not the viewers). so if they're gonna change the meta, i expect it to lean more to rat. especially because 4 protect 1 will make people feel less inclined to pick supports, which is also something they've been trying to change with the last patches after they started questioning why 90% of the userbase dreaded the idea of playing support heroes despite wanting to win games
it's also harder to find the time to play dota 2 when you expect the average match to last 50 minutes instead of 30, so i'm sure valve realizes the games being shorter is better for them in the long run
either way, i doubt they're gonna go back to 4 protect 1. it feels like they've been trying to make the matches shorter for a while now, since the drawn out games tend to piss people off more and overall cause them to be more negative towards the game (wrt to the players, not the viewers). so if they're gonna change the meta, i expect it to lean more to rat. especially because 4 protect 1 will make people feel less inclined to pick supports, which is also something they've been trying to change with the last patches after they started questioning why 90% of the userbase dreaded the idea of playing support heroes despite wanting to win games
it's also harder to find the time to play dota 2 when you expect the average match to last 50 minutes instead of 30, so i'm sure valve realizes the games being shorter is better for them in the long run
SteveWinwood
Member
um no he said this is the best patch ever
Marauder Shields
Member
It's wierd I enjoy 4 protect 1, rat dota and 5 man death ball dota haha. I don't think there's a type of Dota I dislike, as long as it's being played well.
Marauder Shields
Member
SteveWinwood
Member
we could have seen the first kotl pick
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Jakiro's record at TI4 has been like the saddest thing ever
Well his E(forgot the name) is basically all he's good for.
There's a serious problem when an ulti's only being used to clear out creep wave or as a desperation move. He just doesn't bring much to the table imo.
Pureauthor
Member
I am quite honestly baffled that no one, no one, has even tried a KotL pick to counter the early push meta at TI4.
I am also so bummed that DK lost. Why, guys? Why did you have to have such a great run all year and then choke at the big one?
I am also so bummed that DK lost. Why, guys? Why did you have to have such a great run all year and then choke at the big one?
Marauder Shields
Member
Yeah Liquid Fire is ownage, main reason I love the hero. Ice path is also pretty decent but yeah his ult is only good in certain situations.
If Alliance went deeper, I'd have liked to think we would have seen some big S4 Kotl plays.
Future hero art!
???/Pit Lord/Zet?
Who the heck is the first hero? Shadow Demon concept art? Undying remake? New hero?
A new art for Underlord, looks like he went through a big design shift since we last saw him, probably explains his delay.
Also first possible reference to Zet ever!
The one on the left has something above him that could tell us if its old art for an existing character or not. I think its Undying, as it looks like his old ult icon.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Well there was a time when he was picked only for his Ice Path. And then that was nerfed into the ground ^^. Dual breath and Macropyre are kinda meh, Dual Breath is alright but damage is fairly low due to crappy dot portion and cast point makes it annoying to land on moving targets if they're running away, just doesn't do enough to be worth leveling pretty much. Macropyre is great with a setup, say, Chronosphere into Black Hole. People would have melted, but yeah doesn't do a whole lot otherwise.
Don't think Jakiro would have been good to stop the push. You macropyre a creep wave great, next one you can't do anything and can't even contribute much to the fight since your ult is down. He's better for pushing than counterpushing.
Kotl could have been interesting though, but they needed to find a way to lane it properly I guess, hero is awful during laning and VG strat relies heavily on not losing their lanes, if you can win lane the 5man push is a lot less scary but having kotl in your lane puts you at a disadvantage, usually. There was also no room to farm the jungle with Enigma in there(or well he would have been in there if there was 150wards all over) and he needs levels badly to stop a push. Does stop pushes quite nicely though if you get your levels and don't feed and helps other heroes spam random crap at the waves with Chakram, and his blast has very good synergy with chrono and black hole cause people aren't moving out of the way, plus you can split push with Recall when you take the fight.
Could have been a good kotl game but eh.
I guess my point is... so what?