The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Whoever said Kotl is good against the current deathball push meta is fucking wrong. So much of it revolves around high mobility burst heroes, against which Kotl dies immedietly
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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
Also true, but there were a billion missed kills because they either had GA or Repel. A Diffusal would have likely done something.
I've only been paying attention to competitive doto for a bit now but when has the meta been anything other than that? It just seems like the usual way of things in dota since forever. Either that or split push until win.
SteveWinwood
Member
youre out of position
you dont want to know the time of 4 protect 1
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm at the back of the fight, where the hell else should I be?
backer obviously
rhophiehalul78
Member
CIS is stuck in that time
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
What the fuck were we supposed to do here?
What could we have drafted, what else could we have banned, that would have stopped them from just pushing and pushing and constantly pushing relentlessly.
Every fucking game these days plays out like this. 4 out of 5 maybe. And its fucking boring. Its the same thing every time. One team gets aggressive and rolls over all the towers on the map until the scoreboard is 45-12 and they've got all the towers and rax and its over and over and over and over and its just monotonous. I am so sick of 90% of my dota time being dealing with this one particular pattern.
What could we have drafted, what else could we have banned, that would have stopped them from just pushing and pushing and constantly pushing relentlessly.
Every fucking game these days plays out like this. 4 out of 5 maybe. And its fucking boring. Its the same thing every time. One team gets aggressive and rolls over all the towers on the map until the scoreboard is 45-12 and they've got all the towers and rax and its over and over and over and over and its just monotonous. I am so sick of 90% of my dota time being dealing with this one particular pattern.
What the fuck were we supposed to do here?
What could we have drafted, what else could we have banned, that would have stopped them from just pushing and pushing and constantly pushing relentlessly.
Every fucking game these days plays out like this. 4/5 at least. And its fucking boring. Its the same thing every time. One team gets aggressive and rolls over all the towers on the map until the scoreboard is 45-12 and they've got all the towers and rax and its over and over and over and over and its just monotonous. I am so sick of 90% of my dota time being dealing with this one particular pattern.
PA (or someone) should get a Diffusal to pop the Rock instead of a Battle Fury. WK should have been support WK with PA farming in a PA/WK/KotL trilane (I didn't watch so I don't know if this happened), but regardless a Blink would be better than armlet on WK. In addition to that diffusal, PA also needed a BKB, WK would probably need one too. Don't fight under DP ultimate unless you can absolutely single her out (or with a Brew Split).
That is just based on the scoreboard. Give the match ID and maybe I'll give it a watch real quick? How long is it?
Edit: Found it. Gonna cast it and record, however I reserve the right to fast forward through the less relevant parts of it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
766134326
Like 35 minutes
Fuck most of that stuff is probably pretty accurate, it just didn't feel like we had time to do anything. Slardar and Sand King were bursting us down constantly
The problem with not fighting under DP ultimate is that when you don't...she gets a tower. If she keeps doing that, you lose all of your towers very very fast
What the fuck were we supposed to do here?
What could we have drafted, what else could we have banned, that would have stopped them from just pushing and pushing and constantly pushing relentlessly.
Every fucking game these days plays out like this. 4 out of 5 maybe. And its fucking boring. Its the same thing every time. One team gets aggressive and rolls over all the towers on the map until the scoreboard is 45-12 and they've got all the towers and rax and its over and over and over and over and its just monotonous. I am so sick of 90% of my dota time being dealing with this one particular pattern.
I think you're more likely to come across that playing captains mode. Unranked all pick isn't deathball at all.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its less deathball, but the same relentlessness thing still applies. Dota at the moment feels the least swingy I can recall in the past couple years. The team that gets the early advantage is overwhelmingly likely to maintain that early advantage into an aggressive victory.
I want to try and use the WebAPI to see if I can scrape and graph the average match times over the last year or so. I'm betting they've dropped significantly.
Honestly I don't even have anything against it on its own. I just want some damn variety. I love Dota when there's a wide variance in how matches play out, and my frustration right now is that I just feel things are repetitive.
rhophiehalul78
Member
What do you guys think if Sven gets a buff that removes his cast animation for God Strength? Will it be too imba? Enough for him to gain more popularity in pro matches?
I find it annoying that you have to stop for about 0.5 seconds to be PUMPED UP.
This guy learned how to URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY URN REEL MONY
rhophiehalul78
Member
wait wait wait wait wait wait....
Is the Draskyl in the TI panel? Why is he there? What happened to the "I'm too good for the casting position you put me in"?
Didn't have a chance to watch the stream and I was just surprised to see a picture of him on one of the panels.
Is the Draskyl in the TI panel? Why is he there? What happened to the "I'm too good for the casting position you put me in"?
Didn't have a chance to watch the stream and I was just surprised to see a picture of him on one of the panels.
Pyros_Eien
Member
I'd say Sven is vastly underestimated as is. After the bunch of nerfs he took back when he was ultra popular, everyone stopped picking him, but the nerfs weren't that big. He still provides an almost broken team buff that also gives him a large edge against most other carries, gets easily one of the highest "free stats" buff from his ultimate which doubles at making him a pushing monster, he has a ranged aoe stun and he gets a farming tool as a skill, given it's not as good as say Blink or Illusions based abilities.
Arguably Tiny is also the "issue" in the sense that he's just a bit stronger than Sven. Also has an aoe stun but can be targetted more accurately(or worse if you suck), has A LOT more damage early game via his toss avalanche combo, gets the movementspeed and damage all the time and while you need an agh to give him cleave and pushing, that makes him a lot better than Sven with one item of equal value. Only advantage of Sven is the team buffing aspect but that's a bit weak in comparison to what Tiny offers.
So when you think, oh let's pick a hero to go with Wisp and win late, you pick Tiny, not Sven. Or not Chaos Knight, same problem(but more so, CK can't farm for shit that doesn't help). Buffing Sven would maybe make him more popular, but that'd just make Tiny less popular, so it's just replacing one hero by another, not sure there would be a point. A bit too much overlap in their skill sets. I think tweaking Warcry is probably where the difference could be made better, even maybe bringing back support Sven.
SteveWinwood
Member
There are lots of guides out there.
This is a popular link to throw out: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/otygb/switching_from_league_of_legends_what_should_i/
This is incredibly in depth and helped a friend of mine transition: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-strategy/454746-dota-2-for-lol-players
If you have any specific questions about differences there are plenty of people in here who have played lots of LoL (I can't guarantee those people would be the one to answer you questions specifically about the differences between the games though...), any general questions can be answered here easily!
Also read this as it's still super helpful if you already know a moba: http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
well he said he wasnt casting
i guess he never said he wasnt analyzing
(my guess is he worked something out with valve and they expanded the analyst desk after the esl "analyzers analyze the draft instead of the casters" thing was well recieved)
but only he knows i spose
Stop posting Purge and post this instead:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=123364976
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=123364976
I casted it. Noticed it didn't save and realized I had it on DirectShow instead of recording on DXTory.
I have to go to bed, I'll do it again tomorrow.
I will say what I noticed was the itemization of your team was bad, specifically on PA and WK. Your team's objective was to survive to 35-40 minutes with a decent number of towers intact. You guys needed to smoke more, get pickoffs, bother the Sand King doing the jungle thing, who was low many times. PA should have never gone Battle Fury, this was a Lifesteal > BKB game, or throw a Diffusal in there for Warlock.
WK needed a Blink dagger instead of that Armlet he didn't use much. In the 1-5 system it should have been like this.
1. PA
2. Brew
3. WK
4. DS
5. KotL
Don't go in 1 by 1, especially chasing a DP with ulti. Sometimes you just gotta let her go. Dark Seer was not using Soul Ring before doing a lot of his spells. You always gotta Soul Ring if it's available before each Ion Shell/Vacuum/Whatever
Anyway, like I said I'll recast this tomorrow, and this time DXTory is actually set correctly.
The_Player
Member
Dota 2 twitter spoiled 1v1 results. Who was this smartass who decided to post results as a text?
Cheers! Will look into those guides. If anyone wants to coach me or whatever, feel free to add me. My Steam profile thing is in my GAF profile.
SteveWinwood
Member
Okay techno I'm watching the game.
I saw the first three kills happen... to you... by being terribly out of position. The first death you were trying to help the brew kill the dp and by doing so somehow missed the slardar (in full ward vision) walking right behind you at which point he stunned you and hit you twice and you died. Granted the brew could have saved you, but that hero is hard to play so whatever.
Second time you tp'd into a tower where three enemies were already pushing and they just walked up to you, warlock through the golem and you died.
Third time you walked straight to where you died again, and proceeded to walk into the golem that had just been dropped on you at which point you died a third time. Quickly followed by the dark seer and the brew.
Okay so obviously there are some clear miscommunications going on and in general you need to be playing so much more defensively because you're assuming your whole team is going to be following you and jumping in on whatever space you think you're going to create. You are not the person who is supposed to be doing that. That's literally any other person's job. Brew, WK, and dark seer can jump in and start a fight and PA late game can start two shotting people just by jumping. At no point in the game will you ever be able to run into battle first and do anything of value.
General things: Everyone's farm was terrible. Somehow dark seer was getting nothing, brew did okay. PA somehow didn't get much (and I hate her item build no one goes battlefury on her anymore, and it also cements you trying to go late game and you can look and see they have early push and teamfight so...). You were a tri lane. You guys didn't know how to tri lane. The overall lane control was poor and you never tried for kills which you easily could have gotten on that slardar. If you didn't get kills he needed to be so spaced out that he was level 1 at 6 minutes. He still got xp (and some last hits!) and you simply took experience away from your carry by standing there. If you're not getting kills you need to rotate (and not just feed the slardar right behind you).
I'm 21 minutes into this replay and waiting for the aforementioned fiveman death push to start because at no point has more than 3 heroes been together on their team. A death prophet rotated bot to join the warlock and mirana (their lanes were trash btw) so you had 3 once to fight I guess?
You need to be more cognizant of mirana arrows. You tried to blast a wave and she just hit you with one because you were in plain view.
The biggest thing to hurt you so far was your brew dc'ing at a very crucial time when his ult was up and a team fight was about to happen. Then your dark seer ran into 3 heroes... and died. Also you lost like 75% of your health to burning fists and immolation, be careful around the golem. The wraith king has not left the pa's side. With support wk all you do is gank and fuck shit up not babysit and hamper your carry (who has nothing at 12 minutes in outside of a ring of health, you can never right click, only use daggers, and do better than that).
And now brew and dark seer are diving towers 2 v 3.
Also 15:45 we have our first 5 man push! By your team. Which as I typed that expected things to go terribly wrong, but it didn't go THAT bad. Your pa went right back to farming so that was good! (And the wk babysitting as well).
Death prophet has blown her ult like 3 times no where near a tower, and sand king has wasted his ult like 3 times. PA just got a triple kill things are looking up!
There is a push at 20 minutes where they group up and push your mid, you walk IN FRONT of your tower to blast and die to the golem instantly, poor positioning. Yeah their push is pretty crazy at this point, but hey they got death prophet what else are they supposed to do.
At 22 minutes you try and gank 2 with 4, good move! Except you're the first one in and immediately die SOLELY to right clicks from the warlock and the mirana. Also no one has detection so the mirana just walks away. And now dark seer and brew just walked into their team and died for no reason at all.
At 24 mins they push to take rax and I'm looking around for the kotl cause it will only take one blast to push them off, but you're split pushing bot for the tier 1 and dont have the mana to tp back.
26 minutes, you have creeps pushing all your t3s and you think it's a good idea to leave your base to push top when you can't see any of them on the map? Poor positioning. Luckily only brew dies in an unrelated incident because if that sand king had acutally used his ult well, and the warlock had half a brain that fight would have been instantly done. You're not respecting their power.
Then you pick a fight outside your base where PA (who still only has a battlefury) dies instantly and there is a terrible use of brew ult and you all instantly die.
Support WK went armlet for some reason. Never any sign of blink. I stopped watching at 33 minutes because it's super over.
You lost this game because of a million reasons and it's all poor play on your team's fault. It's not a relentless teamfight deathball meta or anything.
It's okay though because everyone is bad. Use it to get better. I'm not trying to shame you or Yasae or Jakku (I love you all) I'm just saying it's not the other team's fault. I'm sorry if this comes off as "get gud" but really don't blame the other team
Sand king didn't do anything most of the game, slardar shouldn't have gotten anything but you let him. The death prophet seemed to know what she was doing but still didn't win mid as handily as she should have. The mirana used her ult half as much as she should have and didn't use starfall to the best effect. The warlock was good and actually used all his spells.
Focus on improving instead of getting mad at a perceived meta.
I saw the first three kills happen... to you... by being terribly out of position. The first death you were trying to help the brew kill the dp and by doing so somehow missed the slardar (in full ward vision) walking right behind you at which point he stunned you and hit you twice and you died. Granted the brew could have saved you, but that hero is hard to play so whatever.
Second time you tp'd into a tower where three enemies were already pushing and they just walked up to you, warlock through the golem and you died.
Third time you walked straight to where you died again, and proceeded to walk into the golem that had just been dropped on you at which point you died a third time. Quickly followed by the dark seer and the brew.
Okay so obviously there are some clear miscommunications going on and in general you need to be playing so much more defensively because you're assuming your whole team is going to be following you and jumping in on whatever space you think you're going to create. You are not the person who is supposed to be doing that. That's literally any other person's job. Brew, WK, and dark seer can jump in and start a fight and PA late game can start two shotting people just by jumping. At no point in the game will you ever be able to run into battle first and do anything of value.
General things: Everyone's farm was terrible. Somehow dark seer was getting nothing, brew did okay. PA somehow didn't get much (and I hate her item build no one goes battlefury on her anymore, and it also cements you trying to go late game and you can look and see they have early push and teamfight so...). You were a tri lane. You guys didn't know how to tri lane. The overall lane control was poor and you never tried for kills which you easily could have gotten on that slardar. If you didn't get kills he needed to be so spaced out that he was level 1 at 6 minutes. He still got xp (and some last hits!) and you simply took experience away from your carry by standing there. If you're not getting kills you need to rotate (and not just feed the slardar right behind you).
I'm 21 minutes into this replay and waiting for the aforementioned fiveman death push to start because at no point has more than 3 heroes been together on their team. A death prophet rotated bot to join the warlock and mirana (their lanes were trash btw) so you had 3 once to fight I guess?
You need to be more cognizant of mirana arrows. You tried to blast a wave and she just hit you with one because you were in plain view.
The biggest thing to hurt you so far was your brew dc'ing at a very crucial time when his ult was up and a team fight was about to happen. Then your dark seer ran into 3 heroes... and died. Also you lost like 75% of your health to burning fists and immolation, be careful around the golem. The wraith king has not left the pa's side. With support wk all you do is gank and fuck shit up not babysit and hamper your carry (who has nothing at 12 minutes in outside of a ring of health, you can never right click, only use daggers, and do better than that).
And now brew and dark seer are diving towers 2 v 3.
Also 15:45 we have our first 5 man push! By your team. Which as I typed that expected things to go terribly wrong, but it didn't go THAT bad. Your pa went right back to farming so that was good! (And the wk babysitting as well).
Death prophet has blown her ult like 3 times no where near a tower, and sand king has wasted his ult like 3 times. PA just got a triple kill things are looking up!
There is a push at 20 minutes where they group up and push your mid, you walk IN FRONT of your tower to blast and die to the golem instantly, poor positioning. Yeah their push is pretty crazy at this point, but hey they got death prophet what else are they supposed to do.
At 22 minutes you try and gank 2 with 4, good move! Except you're the first one in and immediately die SOLELY to right clicks from the warlock and the mirana. Also no one has detection so the mirana just walks away. And now dark seer and brew just walked into their team and died for no reason at all.
At 24 mins they push to take rax and I'm looking around for the kotl cause it will only take one blast to push them off, but you're split pushing bot for the tier 1 and dont have the mana to tp back.
26 minutes, you have creeps pushing all your t3s and you think it's a good idea to leave your base to push top when you can't see any of them on the map? Poor positioning. Luckily only brew dies in an unrelated incident because if that sand king had acutally used his ult well, and the warlock had half a brain that fight would have been instantly done. You're not respecting their power.
Then you pick a fight outside your base where PA (who still only has a battlefury) dies instantly and there is a terrible use of brew ult and you all instantly die.
Support WK went armlet for some reason. Never any sign of blink. I stopped watching at 33 minutes because it's super over.
You lost this game because of a million reasons and it's all poor play on your team's fault. It's not a relentless teamfight deathball meta or anything.
It's okay though because everyone is bad. Use it to get better. I'm not trying to shame you or Yasae or Jakku (I love you all) I'm just saying it's not the other team's fault. I'm sorry if this comes off as "get gud" but really don't blame the other team
Focus on improving instead of getting mad at a perceived meta.
Valvo pls
That reminds me, I thought draskyll wasn't casting at all, why was he there?
apparently valve really loves froggie witch doctor set, they need to do some programming jazz to animate his froggie ultimate since it was never meant to be animated. This will be implemented after TI4.
Source: froggie WD set creator at reddit.
Edit: Also, Draskyll looks like Walter White. Didn't expect that at all.
close to the edge
Member
Sigismundo
Member
Draskyl sounds a lot different when he has a decent mic.
You can win any game in a pub if you just win your lanes, which is possible with almost any combo of heroes if the skill difference is enough that game. The strength of a draft against another merely makes it more likely or not. In pubs anyway.
darkwhitehair
Banned
Anyone here bet on the games? I bet on MVP, then Liquid and then Liquid again today on the wildcards. Won rares and the axe immortal. I feel like I discovered fire.
Tomorrow is all about Mouz.
Tomorrow is all about Mouz.
Marauder Shields
Member
Was listening to the noob stream for a bit, with Purge, and it really made me wish I had him casting for me when I first started watching Dota at TI3.
neurosisxeno
Member
What a gentleman. Solid advice around. If you're playing KotL positioning is VERY important.
This is really shit. I already get the same 3 rares every time I open a lvlup gift. Now im going to get that fucking Pugna ward every time
When the GD studio was streaming the EU HUB they did a Strawpoll of the age of the users watching. 17-21 was 65% or so
Hire him as a coach!
I would pay top dollar for a SirActionSlacks set.
I'd pay top dollar for anything I find even moderately interesting though
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I especially liked how one of the first things he discusses is animation cancelling.
I remember someone replied to me on neogaf that the guide isnt meant to be read chronologically.