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[Kato]

AMSTERDAM - Gemeenten mogen geen leges heffen voor de identiteitskaart. Dat heeft de Hoge Raad vrijdag bepaald.

Volgens de raad is de geldende identificatieplicht voor de meeste mensen de enige reden om een identiteitskaart aan te vragen. Het belang van de overheid bij de kaart is daarmee groter dan het belang van de burger.
Volgens vaste rechtspraak mag een gemeente alleen leges heffen voor diensten die, aldus de Hoge Raad, in overheersende mate een belang van een individuele burger dient. Dit geldt bijvoorbeeld voor een rijbewijs of een paspoort.


Ook met die documenten op zak kunnen mensen voldoen aan de identificatieplicht, maar ze dienen vooral ook een zogeheten individualiseerbaar belang: met een rijbewijs kan een motorrijtuig worden bestuurd, een paspoort is een mondiaal erkend reisdocument.

De Hoge Raad erkent dat ook de identiteitskaart als reisdocument kan dienen, zij het alleen binnen de Europese Unie. Maar of de aanvrager de kaart ook daarvoor zal gebruiken, is volgens de raad niet objectief vast te stellen
.
Daarom kan niet worden gezegd dat het aanvragen van de kaart overwegend verband houdt met een op het individu toegesneden belang.

De Vereniging van Nederlandse Gemeenten (VNG) zegt de uitspraak te bestuderen en zal op zeer korte termijn met de minister van Binnenlandse Zaken overleggen.
Bezwaar

De zaak is aanhangig gemaakt door een inwoner van de gemeente Leudal (voorheen Heythuysen), die in de zomer van 2004 een rijbewijs en een ID-kaart heeft aangevraagd. Hij maakte tevergeefs bezwaar bij de heffingsambtenaar tegen de legesheffing en stelde beroep in bij de rechtbank.

Ook die verklaarde zijn bezwaar ongegrond, maar het gerechtshof in Den Bosch stelde hem - voor wat betreft de leges voor de ID-kaart - in het gelijk.
Staatssecretaris Ank Bijleveld (Binnenlandse Zaken) vond het Bossche oordeel onbegrijpelijk en zei vorig jaar dat een gratis verstrekking van identiteitskaarten de rijksoverheid volgens een eerste schatting 80 miljoen aan leges kost.

Source: http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2611125/identiteitskaart-moet-gratis-zijn.html


Short translated version:

The High Court rules in favor of the peoples money. When you need to get your European ID card renewed it will be free of costs. Although the card can be used as a travel document within the European Union it's not the same as a passport. So there is no way of telling that the user of the card will use it as a travel document. We are forced by law to have an ID card on us at any given time and so it has to be free from now on. They loose about 80 million euros of fees a year with this ruling.

I say fuck 'em.. I am renewing my card this Wednesday so it comes at a perfect time.

One dude in Holland got the ball rolling when he refused to pay the fees for renewal of his card and took it to court all the way up to the high council.

Thank you kind sir!

 

[neorej]

Right. Anyone who thinks the card will be free is retarded. The local governments will charge you through other channels; can you say taxes?

 

[CrunchyB]

Right. Anyone who thinks the card will be free is retarded. The local governments will charge you through other channels; can you say taxes?

They'll probably just up the costs of other services.

It already costs 10 Euros to get a printout of your data on a sheet of paper. Assholes.

 

[Metal-Geo]

Ugh. I just renewed it 2 weeks ago. What a goddamn annoying process that was.

 

[Kato]

Right. Anyone who thinks the card will be free is retarded. The local governments will charge you through other channels; can you say taxes?

Are you my father in law? If you are, I told you this morning to be happy for now be bitter later sourpuss .

And to buy a smaller car so you save on gas, taxes and insurance. win-win.

 

[Sarcasm]

Never a win-win lol

 

[Nolimit_SS]

Can I has one, please have me Netherlands

(can't wait for time when I'm gonna try moving and get denied or some shit)

 

[neorej]

Are you my father in law? If you are, I told you this morning to be happy for now be bitter later sourpuss .

And to buy a smaller car so you save on gas, taxes and insurance. win-win.

I hope not, my first child will be born later this year

Owh and a smaller car is impossible. I need space to move, since I'm 204 cm. Imagine that in a Toyota Aygo.

 

[runningjoke]

If local government needs money they will tax you one way or the other. Nothing is going to change.

We are forced by law to have an ID card on us at any given time[..]

This isn't entirely true. You are required to be able to identify yourself if requested by police. They cannot do random ID card checks because that reminds too many people of WW2

Spoiler

Sorry for the godwin

 

[Kato]

I hope not, my first child will be born later this year

Owh and a smaller car is impossible. I need space to move, since I'm 204 cm. Imagine that in a Toyota Aygo.

Ow wow awesome man. Congrats )
I wish you three all the luck and health of the world! Enjoy it, I know I do every minute for close to 4 years now

And yeah you will fit. Tell your significant other to get a bike. Then rip out the front seats of the Aygo and sit on the back one. The place you have left is for the maxi cosi for the other one in your life .. problem solved

 

[neorej]

Ow wow awesome man. Congrats )
I wish you three all the luck and health of the world! Enjoy it, I know I do every minute for close to 4 years now

And yeah you will fit. Tell your significant other to get a bike. Then rip out the front seats of the Aygo and sit on the back one. The place you have left is for the maxi cosi for the other one in your life .. problem solved

Thanks!

I've actually done this in real life

 

[hiro4]

There will probably still be administration costs etc.

Still this is a good thing. Won't really matter for me, since I've always had a passport.

 

[Kato]

If local government needs money they will tax you one way or the other. Nothing is going to change.



This isn't entirely true. You are required to be able to identify yourself if requested by police. They cannot do random ID card checks because that reminds too many people of WW2

Spoiler

Sorry for the godwin

Sure. But to be able to identify one selves quickly and without hassle usually a drivers ID or the ID card is the way to go. Otherwise you risk a fine of 50 euro's. Although normally they will not ask for your ID out of the blue it's still the law to have some way of identification on you at all times, the most common one being the ID card as soon as you hit the age of 14.

Thanks!

I've actually done this in real life

haha! just once for fun or really owned it like that? Did it get through the yearly check-up certification like that?

 

[Dreaver]

Not using an identification card anymore since last year.. Car License + Passport is enought.

 

[soepje]

Why would you get a passport AND an identification card in the first place?

Btw, my guess is that the fees for a passport will go up because of this.

 

[Kato]

Why would you get a passport AND an identification card in the first place?

A lot of people I know have their Passport in their vault (which weighs no more than a sack of potatoes) at home and carry around their ID card. Small form factor and all that.

But yeah. I carry around a D.ID and an ID and no passport. Because for some things the D.ID alone is not enough.

 

[neorej]

haha! just once for fun or really owned it like that? Did it get through the yearly check-up certification like that?

For fun. Back in college, we built a Mini at a scrapyard and took it to a track for a testdrive. As I didn't fit in, we removed the roof and the driver's seat in order for me to fit in. Imagine Mario Kart, and you'll get the picture.

 

[soepje]

I always thought it was enough to carry a driving license with you. I guess I've been disobeying the law for the past years .

I think they are overdoing it with their fee's either way. Like someone said 10 euro for a simple print out.

My husband gets to choose between paying a fee of 400 euro each 5 years to prolong his staying card or to become a dutchie by naturalization by paying almost 800 euro's. Our government is taking the whole "covering the expenses" a bit too far imho.

 

[Goldrusher]

Not using an identification card anymore since last year.. Car License + Passport is enought.

Doesn't change the fact that you need one.

 

[OG Kush]

Doesn't change the fact that you need one.

In the EU? when the fuck did that happen?

 

[Arjen]

I always thought it was enough to carry a driving license with you. I guess I've been disobeying the law for the past years .

I think they are overdoing it with their fee's either way. Like someone said 10 euro for a simple print out.

My husband gets to choose between paying a fee of 400 euro each 5 years to prolong his staying card or to become a dutchie by naturalization by paying almost 800 euro's. Our government is taking the whole "covering the expenses" a bit too far imho.

I always carry only my drivers license, i only have a passport, and i'm not dragging that thing along everywhere i go.

 

[soepje]

I always carry only my drivers license, i only have a passport, and i'm not dragging that thing along everywhere i go.

So you are another citizen gone rogue. Let's all unite.

 

[neorej]

I always carry only my drivers license, i only have a passport, and i'm not dragging that thing along everywhere i go.

Driver's license is enough, but only for the normal police-officers. If you run into an asshole or a junior, your driver's license is not valid as an ID.

 

[Kato]

I always thought it was enough to carry a driving license with you. I guess I've been disobeying the law for the past years .

I think they are overdoing it with their fee's either way. Like someone said 10 euro for a simple print out.

My husband gets to choose between paying a fee of 400 euro each 5 years to prolong his staying card or to become a dutchie by naturalization by paying almost 800 euro's. Our government is taking the whole "covering the expenses" a bit too far imho.

Those naturalization fees are crazy. But I would choose for "Dutchness" Less hassle that way.

I know I always thought I needed to pay the fee of 500 Dutch Guilders.

--An awesome time when you paid amounts of money starting with an F. .. ah well.

Back then my mother in law (still just the mother of my girlfriend at the time and old school Zeeuw) heard my story, slapped me upside the head and said.. "What the hell are you talking about you were born in Bussum for crying out loud you are as much Dutch as we are so go get your Dutch passport and be done with it." Childcare services.. what a mess... but that's another story altogether ..

So I paid F. 75,-, became Dutch on paper ( already was in heart, mind and soul) and three months later I found a letter of the defense department in my mailbox: "We want to make a man out of you"

I was like :O
They were like: GOOD MORNING OIRSCHOT - pewpew - FACE IN THE MUD

good times...kinda

 

[Always-honest]

okay.. just BOUGHT a new one.

 

[Dreaver]

Doesn't change the fact that you need one.

Why the hell would I NEED one? I can identify myself with a passport, as it counts as a legal identification card.

 

[hiro4]

Driver's license is enough, but only for the normal police-officers. If you run into an asshole or a junior, your driver's license is not valid as an ID.

Seriously?
I thought a driver's license counts as a valid identification document.

 

[soepje]

F 75,- that's not bad, not bad at all. When was this? The nineties?

My husband will apply for naturalization in the upcoming weeks. I don't think Wilders n Co will make it any easier or cheaper . Plus, ones new requirements are set i doubt a new government will change it back any time soon. Like you said, less hassle in the long run.

And then in 10 years we can say to someone else . . back in the old day it was only 800 euro

 

[HarryHengst]

okay.. just BOUGHT a new one.

Just file a complaint about it. They are required to pay you back.



Good news this, now remove that whole giving your fingerprints part please.

 

[Coen]

Seriously?
I thought a driver's license counts as a valid identification document.

It does, as long as you're in the Netherlands. The other guy is wrong.

 

[Goldrusher]

Why the hell would I NEED one? I can identify myself with a passport, as it counts as a legal identification card.

Isn't it required by law to have one in The Netherlands ?

Here in Belgium everyone over 12 years old has one. It's basically proof that you a registered Belgian.

 

[Kato]

Seriously?
I thought a driver's license counts as a valid identification document.

For the sake of clarity straight from the horse's mouth

Situations wherein a drivers ID is not enough:

-Your friendly neighborhood tax collector
-New employment
-Welfare registration
-some other situations stated at the site below

http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...ewijs-mag-ik-gebruiken-in-welke-situatie.html

 

[hiro4]

Isn't it required by law to have one in The Netherlands ?

Here in Belgium everyone has one. It's basically proof that you a registered Belgian.

Everyone from the age of 14 needs to have a valid ID on him/her at all times. Or at least when you are checked .

Valid ID's are Passport, ID Card or Drivers License, within the Netherlands.
Within Europe you will need an ID card, and outside of Europe you will need a passport.

At least this is what I know.

For the sake of clarity straight from the horse's mouth

Situations wherein a drivers ID is not enough:

-Your friendly neighborhood tax collector
-New employment
-Welfare registration
-some other situations stated at the site below

http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...ewijs-mag-ik-gebruiken-in-welke-situatie.html

Off course, Rijksoverheid.nl has all the answers.
Now lets hope the site is still safe to visit

 

[neorej]

Seriously?
I thought a driver's license counts as a valid identification document.

in some cases, yes. As a rule of thumb, however, I usually assume my DL won't cover it. Plus, I will not sit in a policestation for a dumb-ass cop who does not accept my DL as an ID in a situation where he should do so. Done that once because he thought my dog (bull-terrier) was a pitbull.

Here's a list of situations BTW: http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...ewijs-mag-ik-gebruiken-in-welke-situatie.html

 

[Kato]

F 75,- that's not bad, not bad at all. When was this? The nineties?

My husband will apply for naturalization in the upcoming weeks. I don't think Wilders n Co will make it any easier or cheaper . Plus, ones new requirements are set i doubt a new government will change it back any time soon. Like you said, less hassle in the long run.

And then in 10 years we can say to someone else . . back in the old day it was only 800 euro

That was for a Dutch passport I always was entitled to but never knew and was never told. So it was not for naturalization of course. Because that fee iirc was still around F.500,-

And yes the early nineties idd. I am that old

" And then in 10 years we can say to someone else . . back in the old day it was only 800 euro "

Haha, yeah like it was nothing

Good luck with the process.. the damn paperwork is a mess or so I am told. Where is he from originally if I may be so bold to ask?

 

[soepje]

Ah ok, that clears it up. I was wondering already how it was possible for you not to have the dutch nationality while you were born in the Netherlands.

I think the paperwork won't be a problem this time, it seems pretty straight forward. The biggest problem was getting him to Holland. That took a lot of time and bureaucratic err. bs.

He was born in Serbia but with the war he moved to Kosovo. So when he gets the dutch passport he will have 3 nationalities! My husband is becoming a nationality collector .

 

[Kato]

Ah ok, that clears it up. I was wondering already how it was possible for you not to have the dutch nationality while you were born in the Netherlands.

I think the paperwork won't be a problem this time, it seems pretty straight forward. The biggest problem was getting him to Holland. That took a lot of time and bureaucratic err. bs.

He was born in Serbia but with the war he moved to Kosovo. So when he gets the dutch passport he will have 3 nationalities! My husband is becoming a nationality collector .

Awesome. My mother is Croatian. Although there are some doubts and irregularities pertaining the story surrounding my mothers real heritage. The other part of my genes is unknown. And my mother was on a strict "don't ask' don't tell" basis concerning his nationality. Never knew the man, but was wise enough to know there has to be one somewhere

I have no emotional bond with my mothers heritage although I do fancy a glass (or 2, 3, 4) of Slivovitz on occasion

So this weekend I will raise my glass to all your husbands passports and on his new one especially. Zjiveli!

Disclaimer: I do not speak the language anymore. It's limited to just a few words now. Cheers being one of them

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Right. Anyone who thinks the card will be free is retarded. The local governments will charge you through other channels; can you say taxes?

...Taxes...

what do i win?

 

[Wazzim]

Cool, I need to renew it at the end of the year. Our government really tends to tax far too much for pretty much everything compared to the rest of Europe.

 

[MrHicks]

WTF is the difference between and ID card and a passport?

 

[Kato]

WTF is the difference between and ID card and a passport?

An ID card can be used to ID yourself and be used to travel solely within the European Union. A passport can be used to travel worldwide.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Right. Anyone who thinks the card will be free is retarded. The local governments will charge you through other channels; can you say taxes?

OH NOES! NOT TAXES!!!

 

[Wazzim]

OH NOES! NOT TAXES!!!

If your profile is correct you live in the US so don't really know how high the 'tax-pressure' is here.

 

[Goldrusher]

WTF is the difference between and ID card and a passport?

You really are 10 years old are you ?


identiteitskaart:
(in België heeft iedereen deze)

paspoort:
(heb je nodig als je buiten de EU wil reizen)

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Cool.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

If your profile is correct you live in the US so don't really know how high the 'tax-pressure' is here.

I also don't know about all of the benefits that come with higher taxes since you know, in this country we don't really have the benefits that folks in Europe do.