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[dr3upmushroom]

I don't know if I'm being paranoid or if I'm looking too much into the ideas and theories of Malcolm Gladwell. Anyways I'm talking about the spread of Evangelicalism within the Hispanic community in Central California. I'm seeing it happen right before my eyes and my story explaining why I think this is a big long but stick with it. It has to do with the culture of Hispanics in California, the great convincing power that evangelicalism and the possible political effect it can have.

Anyone somewhat familiar with California's cities might know where Fresno lies, well I live about 80 miles north of that. My father lives in Fresno with his second wife and my two sisters; I love my sisters so I try to visit as much as possible. Well anyways yesterday I go over to visit and take my sister out for a day of activities; she's turning four so I'm taking her out to paint, read and what not.

Anyways I as I chill at my dad's house, my step family starts coming over for a party that I did not know of. Now I love most of these people as family and I grew up with them, so I've always been close with them. Before they became evangelicals they were catholic in the loosest sense. They've know I'm atheist and I don't like to really bother about converting, I'll talk about philosophies and theories but I don't want to hear it when they try to convert me. Now I have friends and family that belong to different religions and none of them ever try to convince, aside from evangelicals. Every time I get together with them they keep asking me to go to their church.

Well as I leave they get in a circle and start pulling out their bibles and begin discussing the stories found in it, and talking about them as truth. I can't even stand more than 5 minutes of this before trying to start a discussing, but they won't have non of it because Jesus is always right. Well whatever, I leave and take my sister out for the day, well it started getting pretty late so I was prepping up to leave and go back home.

As I say goodbye to everyone my cousin walks out with me. We end up chilling for about an hour outside just chilling, he's not to into religion either. As we're kicking it I remember that I forgot my belt so I walk back into the house only to find just about everyone freaking out, speaking in tongues, crying, and one of my step cousins preaching this was seriously one of the craziest things I've ever walked in. This shit is going on in my Dad's house, and while my dad was not participating in the ritual I saw him with a bible in his hand discussing things with another dude. Seriously, I never thought my dad would fall into either, I always thought of him as a dedicated catholic.

Now I'm not saying that evangelicals are bad people, or that everyone who is an evangelicals are going to be 100% evangelicals, but their influence is going to be big in Cali. These people are great and are nice but only if you're one of them. From what I've seen it seems like their basic belief is "you're either with us or against us". And they are also a very tight group that is only growing. So far I've seen it convert one cousin who was a lesbian for about 4-5 years, another who was a former atheist, two brothers that are with my cousins, one boyfriend and one fiance who come from a very hardcore catholic family, and pretty much the entire family.

The pastor of the church happens to be married to a sister of my stepmother and he recently started a radio show just a few months ago, and guess what my dad has been in radio for about 15 years. Now I'm not saying he has a super huge influence over people, but he is well known in the Mexican community of Fresno and the small towns close to Fresno. Now these people are hard working but not very educated, a stronger belief in that God has the ultimate say in everything and hold traditional values. And guess who's going to try and convince them? For the majority, or from what I've seen, they are not very tech savvy, so the radio is still a good form of entertainment. We on gaf, I'd say working-upper middle maybe some upper, have talked about the economy and discussed it's effects on us. Now think about this farm working towns, where many people don't make much money, think of their situation and think about who's going to help them out when they need some help?

Now think about the rise in the Hispanic population in California and how they could start having more say in politics. And the leaders of these people are not going to be dumb, they will use education to their advantage. I'm coming down now from my high so I think I'll be done rambling... I don't know if I'm being paranoid but I'm seriously going to do more research on this. I still have more thoughts on these floating inside my head but I think this will do...

 

[freddy]

Eh some people just enjoy belonging to something. Sure they can get a bit annoying if they're close to you and trying to convert you but ultimately they are happy doing what they see as the right thing.

Look them in the eye and say that while you have the utmost respect for their beliefs, you also believe that they should respect your right to decide for yourself and that further pushing on their part will only drive you away from your future redemption.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

I fled to the mountains a long time ago. You should too!

 

[Truant]

Is this thread something you would call hana-banacha-shamallabanalle-cofuoku-labakka-toppu-topppu-harramacha?

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Eh some people just enjoy belonging to something. Sure they can get a bit annoying if they're close to you and trying to convert you but ultimately they are happy doing what they see as the right thing.

Look them in the eye and say that while you have the utmost respect for their beliefs, you also believe that they should respect your right to decide for yourself and that further pushing on their part will only drive you away from your future redemption.

It's not that I'm not happy about them finding a purpose in life. That's great, I just think that this is only a small part of what will become a bigger movement...

 

[Timbuktu]

Pardon my ignorance about the US, but I thought most Hispanics would be Catholic?

But in any case, if it's a bigger movement, there is no point in worrying about it, there isn't a lot anyone can do to stop it.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Pardon my ignorance about the US, but I thought most Hispanics would be Catholic?

But in any case, if it's a bigger movement, there is no point in worrying about it, there isn't a lot anyone can do to stop it.

Yes, most Hispanics are Catholics and now I'm starting to see little by little it gain more ground. Think about how politically powerful this religion has been in the US, imagine what it would in California.

 

[BeEatNU]

Yes, most Hispanics are Catholics and now I'm starting to see little by little it gain more ground. Think about how politically powerful this religion has been in the US, imagine what it would in California.

So you saying there is alot of Hispanics in Cali?

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

So you saying there is alot of Hispanics in Cali?

Pfft, yeah right.

 

[Grug]

It's the Evangelicals that howl at the heavens praying for the apocalypse that freak me out.

Can't they move to another planet and play out their sick fantasies there instead?

 

[Feep]

This is America, and everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, as long as it does not bring harm to others.

That said, the very notion of evangelicalism is an affront to intelligence and reason, and every step they take forward is a step humanity has to take in the other direction.

Fuck you, Jesus.

 

[Dan]

Eh some people just enjoy belonging to something. Sure they can get a bit annoying if they're close to you and trying to convert you but ultimately they are happy doing what they see as the right thing.

Look them in the eye and say that while you have the utmost respect for their beliefs, you also believe that they should respect your right to decide for yourself and that further pushing on their part will only drive you away from your future redemption.

I'm not sure how productive lying is. Beliefs should never be beyond question and should not be inherently respected. It's that kind of nonsense that lets evangelical fucktards rise to power.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

This is America, and everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, as long as it does not bring harm to others.

That said, the very notion of evangelicalism is an affront to intelligence and reason, and every step they take forward is a step humanity has to take in the other direction.

Fuck you, Jesus.

Pretty much my point boiled down, thank you.

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

I'm not sure how productive lying is. Beliefs should never be beyond question and should not be inherently respected. It's that kind of nonsense that lets evangelical fucktards rise to power.

People have confused respecting beliefs with respecting someone's right to believe in whatever they want.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

but their influence is going to be big in Cali.

hmmm. yeeeaa--NO. They are a minority and they are not gaining in power. The Christian population here is so segmented that it they will never win anything.

Look at prop 8 that almost passed. If this passes during the next vote I hope they all just leave the state and go die for Jesus somewhere else.

Now think about the rise in the Hispanic population in California and how they could start having more say in politics. And the leaders of these people are not going to be dumb, they will use education to their advantage. I'm coming down now from my high so I think I'll be done rambling... I don't know if I'm being paranoid but I'm seriously going to do more research on this. I still have more thoughts on these floating inside my head but I think this will do...

Nah we got nothing to worry about. I don't sense a high intolerance in the Hispanic community for people of other religions. I've been around southern California enough to know that enforcing religious ideals is the last thing on their agenda. They care more about their rights and providing for their kids.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

They might not gain any power, and I hope I'm wrong. But my interest in the whole deal is still growing though because I've seen some people converted of which I was really surprised... Right now it seems like nothing, but I will be paying attention.

 

[Parl]

People have confused respecting beliefs with respecting someone's right to believe in whatever they want.

I must say, that's a very absurd thing I've noticed.

Many simultaneously respects people's right to believe anything, yet consider the belief to be absurd/sheepish/nonsensical/ridiculous.

Believing by faith and no reason that you're going to win the lottery, for instance, is absurd, just as, IMO, any belief by faith is absurd, but I don't mind that people believe certain things in most situations (except where is retards humanity, but I still respect the individual's right to perceived problem as that likely isn't their intention).

 

[freddy]

People have confused respecting beliefs with respecting someone's right to believe in whatever they want.

Which is what I meant anyway

 

[Mr. Sam]

I fled to the mountains a long time ago. You should too!

 

[Dan]

hmmm. yeeeaa--NO. They are a minority and they are not gaining in power. The Christian population here is so segmented that it they will never win anything.

Look at prop 8 that almost passed. If this passes during the next vote I hope they all just leave the state and go die for Jesus somewhere else.

Prop 8 did pass...

 

[trinest]

Religion is what is going to distory the world/already has.

 

[etiolate]

I don't know if I'm being paranoid or if I'm looking too much into the ideas and theories of Malcolm Gladwell. Anyways I'm talking about the spread of Evangelicalism within the Hispanic community in Central California. I'm seeing it happen right before my eyes and my story explaining why I think this is a big long but stick with it. It has to do with the culture of Hispanics in California, the great convincing power that evangelicalism and the possible political effect it can have.

Anyone somewhat familiar with California's cities might know where Fresno lies, well I live about 80 miles north of that. My father lives in Fresno with his second wife and my two sisters; I love my sisters so I try to visit as much as possible. Well anyways yesterday I go over to visit and take my sister out for a day of activities; she's turning four so I'm taking her out to paint, read and what not.

Anyways I as I chill at my dad's house, my step family starts coming over for a party that I did not know of. Now I love most of these people as family and I grew up with them, so I've always been close with them. Before they became evangelicals they were catholic in the loosest sense. They've know I'm atheist and I don't like to really bother about converting, I'll talk about philosophies and theories but I don't want to hear it when they try to convert me. Now I have friends and family that belong to different religions and none of them ever try to convince, aside from evangelicals. Every time I get together with them they keep asking me to go to their church.

Well as I leave they get in a circle and start pulling out their bibles and begin discussing the stories found in it, and talking about them as truth. I can't even stand more than 5 minutes of this before trying to start a discussing, but they won't have non of it because Jesus is always right. Well whatever, I leave and take my sister out for the day, well it started getting pretty late so I was prepping up to leave and go back home.

As I say goodbye to everyone my cousin walks out with me. We end up chilling for about an hour outside just chilling, he's not to into religion either. As we're kicking it I remember that I forgot my belt so I walk back into the house only to find just about everyone freaking out, speaking in tongues, crying, and one of my step cousins preaching this was seriously one of the craziest things I've ever walked in. This shit is going on in my Dad's house, and while my dad was not participating in the ritual I saw him with a bible in his hand discussing things with another dude. Seriously, I never thought my dad would fall into either, I always thought of him as a dedicated catholic.

Now I'm not saying that evangelicals are bad people, or that everyone who is an evangelicals are going to be 100% evangelicals, but their influence is going to be big in Cali. These people are great and are nice but only if you're one of them. From what I've seen it seems like their basic belief is "you're either with us or against us". And they are also a very tight group that is only growing. So far I've seen it convert one cousin who was a lesbian for about 4-5 years, another who was a former atheist, two brothers that are with my cousins, one boyfriend and one fiance who come from a very hardcore catholic family, and pretty much the entire family.

The pastor of the church happens to be married to a sister of my stepmother and he recently started a radio show just a few months ago, and guess what my dad has been in radio for about 15 years. Now I'm not saying he has a super huge influence over people, but he is well known in the Mexican community of Fresno and the small towns close to Fresno. Now these people are hard working but not very educated, a stronger belief in that God has the ultimate say in everything and hold traditional values. And guess who's going to try and convince them? For the majority, or from what I've seen, they are not very tech savvy, so the radio is still a good form of entertainment. We on gaf, I'd say working-upper middle maybe some upper, have talked about the economy and discussed it's effects on us. Now think about this farm working towns, where many people don't make much money, think of their situation and think about who's going to help them out when they need some help?

Now think about the rise in the Hispanic population in California and how they could start having more say in politics. And the leaders of these people are not going to be dumb, they will use education to their advantage. I'm coming down now from my high so I think I'll be done rambling... I don't know if I'm being paranoid but I'm seriously going to do more research on this. I still have more thoughts on these floating inside my head but I think this will do...

So is your sister hot?

 

[Rolio]

They've know I'm atheist and I don't like to really bother about converting, I'll talk about philosophies and theories but I don't want to hear it when they try to convert me. Now I have friends and family that belong to different religions and none of them ever try to convince, aside from evangelicals. Every time I get together with them they keep asking me to go to their church.

I had to explicitly tell my newly minted Christian sister, "stop asking me to come to your church."

From what I've seen it seems like their basic belief is "you're either with us or against us".

I've been of the mindset that, as long as they don't encroach on my peace/ space/ freedom from hearing horseshit, I won't go on the offensive, either in private conversation or publicly. But anytime said sister brings it up, if we get worked up, I basically tell her I feel she has placed her faith (read: "take our word for it," or blank check) with horseshit, fairy tales, deceivers, et. al. I actually hold back the majority of the time we speak on the subject.

But if I continue to be pushed, I will eventually go on the offensive. I will try to convert people to my way of thinking, that they are weekly being duped by an evil, power- and money-hungry racket. Because, as the great poet Martin Lawrence said, "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing."

So far I've seen it convert one cousin who was a lesbian for about 4-5 years, another who was a former atheist, two brothers that are with my cousins, one boyfriend and one fiance who come from a very hardcore catholic family, and pretty much the entire family.

Now think about this farm working towns, where many people don't make much money, think of their situation and think about who's going to help them out when they need some help?

"Jesus will save..now you poor, stupid shits give me the money that you don't have!! Praise..keehaamotata...keehaamoatatatata!!"

Now think about the rise in the Hispanic population in California and how they could start having more say in politics. And the leaders of these people are not going to be dumb, they will use lack of education to their advantage.

Fixed

Now, I'll tell you the reason I'm especially ornery about the subject this morn'. Every now and again, my mother will tell me about a knowledge nugget (if I could just combine these two words elegantly..) she hears on the Oprah show. Well, there were two preachers/ minsters who stated that gay people/ being gay is a gift from god. W/o going to much into my religious beliefs (ie I see no connection between some person who may have been named Jesus and what created/ came before all that we know) I became pretty upset at the notion that these men's words should mean more than any other's, AND that, "Oh, thank you Jesus, now it's okay to be gay. Thank you, thank you...can I like trannies too, oh please?"

I believe if the church in this country weren't losing mind share/ sway over the coming generation due to their anti-gay crusade, these ministers wouldn't be so open-minded.

K.M. Grits

 

[lastendconductor]

Evangelicalism scares you?
You're lucky you don't have many Kikos or Opus Dei over there. THOSE are scary, (and powerful).

 

[Cheesemeister]

I walk back into the house only to find just about everyone freaking out, speaking in tongues, crying, and one of my step cousins preaching

Yeah, those would be Pentecostals, or Charismatics. They even freak out the other Protestants sometimes.

 

[Skiptastic]

Wish more Christians were Methodists. I went to Sunday school for 18 years as a Methodist and damned if I can think of any crazy shit we do. Just kinda laid back Christianity. Speaking in tongues would freak me the fuck out, I can tell you that.

 

[djtiesto]

Well, my last girlfriend was an Evangelical/Born Again, and at first they seem extremely nice and friendly, to the point where it's odd (I live in an area world-famous for its rude people)... but then the longer you spend with them, the crazier they get. My ex first started by getting me to go to church under the guise of watching her play violin (even knowing I was a former Catholic, now agnostic), then as things started to get more serious, she would say how she won't marry a non Christian, wanted me to talk with her preacher at church, and try to give me paraphernalia to read about Jesus. When I went over her family's house for a Labor Day party they were all talking about how great a pick Sarah Palin was since she didn't abort her Downs baby, I didn't want to make a scene so I kept my politics to myself that day.... But when the ex talked about how she wanted to have kids and send them to Jesus camp, that's when I knew I had to bail out. At that point, I learned that although these people seem almost unrealistically nice, it's all in a Stepford wife way, it's like a cult. I'm sorry but any religion that puts down every other religion and claim to be the only truth is nothing more than a cult, even when I was a Catholic things were never that bad.

 

[iamtheb]

Wish more Christians were Methodists. I went to Sunday school for 18 years as a Methodist and damned if I can think of any crazy shit we do. Just kinda laid back Christianity. Speaking in tongues would freak me the fuck out, I can tell you that.

Haha, the craziest thing I can remember in my Methodist church was a woman had her hair catch fire due to a large amount of hairspray and an acolyte's open flame. :lol

 

[Trakdown]

Wish more Christians were Methodists. I went to Sunday school for 18 years as a Methodist and damned if I can think of any crazy shit we do. Just kinda laid back Christianity. Speaking in tongues would freak me the fuck out, I can tell you that.

I was both Methodist and *gulps* Southern Baptist. Definitely prefer the former.

I will say this- a lot of evangelicals really need to read the last few pages of Matthew, when Jesus goes off on the scribes and Pharisees. They need to realize how foolish they look.

Edit @ iamtheb: You're not from Globe, AZ, are you?

Spoiler

I accidentally did this to my mom during a candelight vigil when i was young.

 

[Skiptastic]

Haha, the craziest thing I can remember in my Methodist church was a woman had her hair catch fire due to a large amount of hairspray and an acolyte's open flame. :lol

:lol That is awesome! :lol

 

[Insane Metal]

OT, but is it really "Evangelicalism"? I thought it was "Evangelism"

 

[jjasper]

Try living in the south and being Episcopalian. Not only do they scare you, they also tell you that you are wrong, Jesus hates you, and that you are going to hell.

 

[Evlar]

OT, but is it really "Evangelicalism"? I thought it was "Evangelism"

It's "evangelicalism". "Evangelism" is the practice of spreading the gospel (or any other faith system). "Evangelicalism" is the collective "evangelical" movement, which teaches that declaring a message of salvation through faith alone is the primary task of Christianity in the world.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Only idea that scares me about any religion getting more popular is the idea of more people voting based on archaic or bigoted religious ideals. If only mandatory IQ tests were pre-requisite to getting on the electoral roll. Actually mandatory IQ tests pre-requisite to running for office would be nice too.

 

[The Lamonster]

OP, have you seen the movie Jesus Camp? Scariest movie I've ever seen.

 

[theBishop]

There's a scientology "Dianetics Foundation" about 10 minutes from my apartment in Philadelphia.

Once people start accepting irrationality, there's no telling how far they'll go.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

Prop 8 did pass...

i meant not pass. Stupid prop 8 had the retarded wording so that YES = lose for gays

 

[Dr_Cogent]

*snore*

Your OP really bored the shit out of me. Talk about worrying over nothing.

 

[Dyno]

The western hemisphere is experiencing two things that play into this: an educational downturn (American schools underfunded and Latin American immigrants) and rampant fear (be it from the economy, the environment, terrorism, ect.)

These two factors are fertile ground for religious fundamentalism. How do you think the Middle East got so many jihadis? They're not born, they're made through poverty, ignorance, insecurity, and despair.

 

[ChoklitReign]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11punk-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=calvinism&st=cse
This is a lot scarier than mainstream evangelism. Hipsters want to revive Calvinism.

 

[Evlar]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11punk-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=calvinism&st=cse
This is a lot scarier than mainstream evangelism. Hipsters want to revive Calvinism.

My brother is a member at Mars Hill and I've visited there. It appears to be a fun church- rock music, the assembly space resembles a concert hall, packed with twenty-something people who don't seem out of touch with reality... And then you hear the sermon. I have a theory some portion of the congregation is there just for the tragic irony- the trappings of modern American counterculture being pressed into the service of sixteenth century religious thought.

 

[Haden]

Have similar story to one of the posters above. Im a christian protostant but not evangelical and was thinking about dating this christian girl I knew as we got on well and she was kind of cute. Anyway she invited me to her baptism and bloody hell talk about scary one minute we were all playing outdoor games and having a bbq then people were crying and chanting! Then we went to the church after her dads a preacher and he started going on about how he used to treat his wife really badly and then the wife came up and started speaking in tongues.

After that it just got worse quickly people started coming up and rather than making theological statements or insightful points about the Bible they just said what the hell they wanted on the pretext that God was speaking through them. Then someone passed out! The wierd thing was the girl I liked looked a bit embarresed but well Im glad I never dated her cause I saw her again recently after this happened 2 years ago. And she was showing me all these tatoos she had saying god in different langauges.

Being in that room the only one not speaking in tongues or going mental has made me very wary of ever dating a evangelical girl lol and im a christian haha :lol

 

[Tobor]

This is America, and everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, as long as it does not bring harm to others.

That said, the very notion of evangelicalism is an affront to intelligence and reason, and every step they take forward is a step humanity has to take in the other direction.

Fuck you, Jesus.

Awesome post. Perfect.

 

[djtiesto]

The western hemisphere is experiencing two things that play into this: an educational downturn (American schools underfunded and Latin American immigrants) and rampant fear (be it from the economy, the environment, terrorism, ect.)

These two factors are fertile ground for religious fundamentalism. How do you think the Middle East got so many jihadis? They're not born, they're made through poverty, ignorance, insecurity, and despair.

And lack of access to suitable women for marriage/starting a family.

 

[jamesinclair]

I spent a month in Fresno and have been visiting twice a year for 10+ years

People say West Virginia is full of rednecks. These people have not been to Fresno or Bakersfield.

Its 40% white trash, 60% mexicans straight off the farm truck.

The radio is pretty hilarious.

Starting at 88fm and going to 100fm you pass country stations, spanish stations, christian stations and a mixture of those three.

Luckily, there are FOUR good rock stations. Got to keep the rednecks with mullets happy. (Alternative rock, hard rock, classic rock 1, classic rock 2)


Edit: This isnt meant to be racist. I was born in mexico. The mexicans in Fresno are the poorest and least educated that have worked as peasants for generations.

 

[rpmurphy]

This is America, and everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, as long as it does not bring harm to others.

You think this is that easy, but it isn't. There are many people in this country who believe that anything to do with religion IS harmful to people, while there are also many others who believe that trying to espouse, educate, or advocate their religious beliefs to people of another religious belief is an affront to the right to believe in whatever they want. There is a conflict between those who want their religious beliefs to influence what they do and say in their daily lives and those who basically wants a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude towards religion.

 

[Evlar]

You think this is that easy, but it isn't. There are many people in this country who believe that anything to do with religion IS harmful to people, while there are also many others who believe that trying to espouse, educate, or advocate their religious beliefs to people of another religious belief is an affront to the right to believe in whatever they want. There is a conflict between those who want their religious beliefs to influence what they do and say in their daily lives and those who basically wants a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude towards religion.

And you forget the large group who want their personal religious beliefs to impact the freedoms of everyone around them.

 

[diffusionx]

It's the Evangelicals that howl at the heavens praying for the apocalypse that freak me out.

Can't they move to another planet and play out their sick fantasies there instead?

They don't just howl at the heavens, man. The whole reason evangelicals support Israel, give them money, cheer on war crimes, wars with Iran and shit, is because they feel that will bring about the Rapture faster. They are definitely influencing the world at large with their bullshit, our President the last 8 years that listen to them didn't help things.

 

[Panda Bear]

You think this is that easy, but it isn't. There are many people in this country who believe that anything to do with religion IS harmful to people, while there are also many others who believe that trying to espouse, educate, or advocate their religious beliefs to people of another religious belief is an affront to the right to believe in whatever they want. There is a conflict between those who want their religious beliefs to influence what they do and say in their daily lives and those who basically wants a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude towards religion.

No those are beliefs and feelings about religion. Not religious beliefs themselves.

They don't just howl at the heavens, man. The whole reason evangelicals support Israel, give them money, cheer on war crimes, wars with Iran and shit, is because they feel that will bring about the Rapture faster. They are definitely influencing the world at large with their bullshit, our President the last 8 years that listen to them didn't help things.

No dude, he didn't listen to them, he was one of them.

 

[Dyno]

And lack of access to suitable women for marriage/starting a family.

While I've heard that theory to explain jihadis it doesn't hold up. The Palestinians have a very high birth rate, Afghanistan and Pakistan as well, and all three places create a steady stream of religious militants.

The aforementioned Jesus Camp documentary reveals the creation of "Christ's Soldiers" starting with the very young. Finding a mate and procreation are not factors. While these American camps are teaching only the philosophy of fundamentalism, the theories if you will, that is the biggest part. When the need for militancy and violence arise these theories and belief take physical form rather easily.