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fansubs could become legal
- Thread starter U5230
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VisionaryQuest0
Member
This has to be a pay-per-fansub. No way any company out there would just let these people legally release their product for free.
EDIT: I should have read all of that, of course it's a pay-per-fansub service.
EDIT: I should have read all of that, of course it's a pay-per-fansub service.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
DarienA said:
:lol
fennec fox
ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
This may be the ultimate personification of the unbelievable pretention and self-righteousness among fansub people and anime fans in general.
distantmantra
Member
LakeEarth said:
If you want to see dickgirls, then by all means, Google away!
SuperPac
Member
empanada said:
By "gray area" you must mean that no one has actually been taken to court over them yet. But the adaptation and distribution of a copyrighted program you don't own over the internet without the consent of the license holder is illegal. If there ever was a case that went to court, that would most certainly be the outcome.
And what this company is doing wouldn't make all fansubs illegal, just the ones of a particular show they owned the internet rights to. So if they had the internet license for Bleach or Naruto, they could sue anyone who was producing and distributing it for free.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
SuperPac said:
You got it mostly right. (First paragraph) - But I'll have to disagree about the second paragraph.
Usually it is the responsibility of the licensor to defend it's IP, rather than any of their licensees, the right to litigate for infringement of a property is something that could be added to a license, but is not usually the case as there is no benefit to the licensee for the costs involved in IP court action. IP litigation is *expensive* - It is not uncommon for badly advised companies to win a case and lose their business to the costs involved in such an action, There is little point in winning £10,000 at legal costs of £500,000 considering that legal costs are rarely awarding in IP infringement cases, and when they are awarded are usually a fraction and never the whole. (10%-20% of costs is common).
As a licensee one of the things you are paying for is an "unencumbered" property, a property that is being heavily infringed and not defended is worth less than a property that is carefully, and heavily defended by it's owner, hence one reason of many that it is the licensor that will take action.
It would be more likely that a licensee would bring any infringement to the attention of the licensor and request that action is taken, and meeting such demands quickly is generally a clause in 99.999% of the licensing contracts used.
These wouldn't be fansubs, and fansubs would still be illegal.
IAD is proposing to act as a sort of online middle-man, releasing professional subs online of licensed series. Since they are HIRING people to work as PROFESSIONALS, that sort of takes the "fan" out of "fansub." And since they can only do this with the cooperation of the North American licenser, it's basically no different in any way than if ADV or FUNimation were to one day decide "let's start releasing individual episodes of our series online with subs."
So the short of it is, this is a lot of bullshit, and everybody in the anime community apparently fails basic reading comprehension, because there will still be a mass online fansub movement just as there is now, and it will still be every bit as illegal as it is now. The only difference is that anime companies are starting to look at the internet as a revenue source, which will likely lead to a crackdown on fansubbing. So at the end of the day, it's very bad news, if it were to all go down as IAD plans, for fansubbers online, and about exactly the opposite of what the headlines are saying on major anime sites.
IAD is proposing to act as a sort of online middle-man, releasing professional subs online of licensed series. Since they are HIRING people to work as PROFESSIONALS, that sort of takes the "fan" out of "fansub." And since they can only do this with the cooperation of the North American licenser, it's basically no different in any way than if ADV or FUNimation were to one day decide "let's start releasing individual episodes of our series online with subs."
So the short of it is, this is a lot of bullshit, and everybody in the anime community apparently fails basic reading comprehension, because there will still be a mass online fansub movement just as there is now, and it will still be every bit as illegal as it is now. The only difference is that anime companies are starting to look at the internet as a revenue source, which will likely lead to a crackdown on fansubbing. So at the end of the day, it's very bad news, if it were to all go down as IAD plans, for fansubbers online, and about exactly the opposite of what the headlines are saying on major anime sites.
The Faceless Master
Member
i never got the whole 'grey area' thing... how could it not be illegal to distribute IP if you aren't the IP owner or have a contract with them?
i man distributing just a subtitle file alone ... maybe ...
i man distributing just a subtitle file alone ... maybe ...
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Bible Black has been commercially available for two years now - YOU FUCKING DIRTY PIRATES!
Shouta
Member
The grey area comes from the timed and translated parts done by fans, not the source material. If fansub groups were to suddenly move to scripts only, no company could touch them as far as I understand it.
Anyway, this wouldn't make fansubs legal, it would just legitimize fansub groups as a professional force rather than an amateur force (as most people see it now). The very definition of fansubs does not allow profitting off your work and if you are, it's no longer a fansub in many people's eyes.
Anyway, this wouldn't make fansubs legal, it would just legitimize fansub groups as a professional force rather than an amateur force (as most people see it now). The very definition of fansubs does not allow profitting off your work and if you are, it's no longer a fansub in many people's eyes.
Phoenix
Member
The Faceless Master said:
There never was any 'grey area', same as with emulators (unless you own all those original hardware cabinets - yeah right). It became a 'grey area' because no one was carted off to jail for doing it and anime conventions allowed the sale of knowingly bootleg anime on show floors so people assumed it was at least slightly legal/illegal.
I kinda doubt this wouldn't work and you're right, it wouldn't be "fansubs." Personally, I don't like paying for things unless I get to own something physically. And fansubs are (or supposed to be..) for the fans, by the fans. Personally, I don't fully approve of fansubbing series that'll get licensed. But yeah.. Like I said, I really don't think this will work. And btw, I don't think it would be a bad thing for fansubbers to just release subtitle files. That'd be pretty cool actually. =)
Greenpanda
Banned
Shouta said:
No - the script to a television episode, even without the video & audio of the actual episode, is itself copyrighted.
Callo Merlose
Banned
Do the copyrights extend to different languages? I doubt it.
MetatronM said:
How is this bad news?
From what I can tell, the reason why people DL fansubs is because of two reasons: it's free, and you get to watch shows just as they are airing in Japan. Nobody likes waiting 6 months to a year to watch a show.
IAD will eliminate the latter problem, and since there is no manufacturing costs, the price of downloading titles will be really cheap. So likely a huge portion of leechers will transition over to paying for legitimate downloads. Everyone wins out.
Whether it will succeed, who knows, but you better hope they do.
I thought there was a court case in europe somewhere having to do with fansubs and the judge ruled in favor of fansubbing?
maybe it was downloading mp3s....
whatever it was it was something people had long since said, 'there is no grey area, its all illegal, if it went to court the companies would win,' and then some judge ruled against it.
Its too bad I don't remember the case, it was quite amusing at the time. Though its probably been turned once a non mp3 loving judge ruled on the case =P
maybe it was downloading mp3s....
whatever it was it was something people had long since said, 'there is no grey area, its all illegal, if it went to court the companies would win,' and then some judge ruled against it.
Its too bad I don't remember the case, it was quite amusing at the time. Though its probably been turned once a non mp3 loving judge ruled on the case =P
Pellham said:
I dunno about everyone else, but when it comes to movies/tv shows, I don't pay money to own something I've not yet seen. Personal rule. Existed as a personal rule before I even knew what the word 'fansub' meant. Doing away with traditionally free fansubs just means I buy less anime.
Not to mention that one of the reasons to buy dvd's isn't to watch something, but to 'own' it. Own the packaging, the dvd's themsleves. To be able to hold it in your hand. Thats part of the appeal. Without that warm feeling of holding it in your hands, I don't see people paying very much for this at all.
I can see downloading free fansubs, I can see myself spending quite a bit of money on dvd's of my favorites, I can't ever see myseld spending money to download an episode.
Shouta
Member
Greenpanda said:
The whole script issue intrigues me a bit because I've never gotten a proper explanation (with the circumstances at hand) and the articles of law written for such things are all over the place.
For what you say, you'd be write for issues within a language (I think anyway). How about between languages though? It's such an odd area. I mean, authors have right of translation and can authorize official translations of their works. However, what prevents them from stealing someone's translation and making it their own? As far as I've looked into it, translated works can be considered deriative which offers it some protection which I think prevents an author from taking the translated script that someone else did as their own. I've asked IP and copyright lawyers about this sort of thing but I never get a response, it irks me quite a bit.
Kobun Heat
Member
QFT.fennec fox said:
This isn't seriously going to happen. This is some fansubber's pipe dream.
JackFrost2012
Banned
Greenpanda said:
This is true.
A translated script, even just a plaintext script file with dialogue and timings, is a derivative work of the original Japanese language IP, and thus illegal to distribute (even if not sold), as the copyright holder for the IP automatically owns the copyright on any derivative works, of which a script based completely on THEIR script certainly qualifies.
Basically anime fansubbers need to STFU.
bjork said:
I believe those discs are all the episodes of the original Bible Black series... there are now to my knowledge at least 1-2 other Bible Black series... a Gaiden... and apparently a 2.
EDIT:
Dammit... sold myself out again....
slayn said:
When you watch a show on TV, the makers of the show earn revenue from the ads that you see. You may not be paying for it but somebody is. When you are watching a show that could have been seen for "free" on TV somewhere else, nobody is getting money from it.
And of course there is a reason to buy DVDs such as the reasons you state. Most of us want the extras and the packaging and the feel of owning something physical. But just like with downloading legal mp3s, which cost $1 apiece, I don't see the problem with paying $1-$5 to download legal anime episodes? At the very least that $1 could substitute for the loss in advertising revenue.
There's also the possibility of online anime networks where you can stream video for free, with advertisements. Not saying IAD is doing that, but it is something that is possible, and something that would eliminate the illegality involved with fansubs.
norinrad21
Banned
They probably don't realize 98% of their subs are shit
john tv said:
Ever heard of Comicsone? For a while they were offering full manga volume downloads for just $2.50 each. They were in Adobe Book reader PDF format, so you could only read it on one computer - it was basically like an mp3 purchased through iTunes. So obviously some manga publishers agreed to the idea. Personally I thought it was really cool. You could download and read manga for a lot cheaper than buying at a bookstore, and in the case of manga, where often you'll just read it once and never again, I thought that was a good idea.
Unfortunately not enough people supported Comicsone so I think they sold themselves to another distributer that just does printed manga.
Anyway, I should clarify myself on the whole IAD issue. If they are trying to "legitimize" fansubs by recruitting fansubbers and legalizing their scripts, that's a stupid idea. If however, they want to start a legitimate internet delivery service for legal translated anime episodes, that's completely different and IMO something that should happen in the future.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
pollo said:
Really. I'm just wondering if there is such a thing as good anime. Its corniness defined.
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