Final Fantasy geek debate: Rinoa is so totally Utlimecia

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About freaking time gaf got over the whole "oh no spoilers ahhhhh" mindset

The first time I read this theory (for me, over at a gamefaqs plot faq) it freaking blew my mind

Time travel makes everything awesome
 
Himuro said:
Then, finally, the famous comparison pics!

rinoa_6.gif
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You know, after so many years of nomura characters, I wouldnt use such pictures for proof. Might as well overlay Lightning, Versus dude and Cloud to proof they are related. ;)

But I still believe
 
The thing that always struck me as odd about this theory is Rinoa's and Ultimecia's completely different hairline.
 
Oh wow!! This is blowing my mind. Thanks. I never thought of all this. Sure I thought there was something up with Rinoa and Ultimecia but wow. I need to play this game again XD
 
I love this game and I've never finished it. I've tried a few times and every time I get very far, it takes me a long time, and then something miraculously detroys the save file.

I'll try it again tho because I'm fairly sure this is the best Final Fantasy game.

And I want to know if Squall gets to FRUTA at the end. I'm betting the answer is "no" but please don't spoil it for me.
 
Die Squirrel Die said:
Well? Details?
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The bulk of the theory is that Squall would someday die and Rinoa, having a longer lifespan for being a sorceress, would get crazy/ mad or something. FFVIII's ultimania, however, confirmed that sorceresses live the same amount of time as normal people, and made it clear Ultimecia is from the far future, destroying the theory outright. The theory also attempt to explain Ultimecia's ambitions based on Rinoa's personality, but the ultimania, again, also stated (if I'm not wrong, but it's already implied in the game itself) that Ultimecia wanted to do what she attempted to do because she knew she was doomed to be killed by Seeds, and wanted to change her doom, by compressing time. Not a very Squall-influenced ambition, as the theory tried to claim.

And let's not forget that Ultimecia also tried to kill Rinoa.

Besides, the Time/ Ultimecia theory that was created after the release of ultimania is, IMO, more elegant and more tragic than the outdated R=U theory believed to be true before the ultimania.
 
Isn't the title a big spoiler? Sure the game is almost 10 years old, but I dunno, maybe it would shock some people who have yet to play it.

As for Ultimecia I don't know, she always kill me before I can see the end :(
 
Grivenger said:
Besides, the Time/ Ultimecia theory that was created after the release of ultimania is, IMO, more elegant and more tragic than the outdated R=U theory believed to be true before the ultimania.
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What theory would that be?

(if not what you already wrote above)
 
Grivenger said:
It was a nice theory, but the FFVIII's ultimania book killed it long time ago.
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Why would we care about what is told outside the game.

FF8 itself can be interpreted like this. What the guide says is unimportant.
 
I love FFVIII with every fiber of my being, but I had no idea that this was even a theory until I read some huge story FAQ that somebody linked to. I realize it's not supposed to be her, but count me in as preferring if she was. The time travel stuff is what makes the game for me, and that would actually make the story superior.
 
That people make up theories about Final Fantasy VIII always amazes me.

Why not just enjoy the game for how gloriously stupid it already is, instead of trying to shoehorn in stuff that's even stupider?
 
Himuro said:
But what about griever?! What about the black wings?!
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According to GameFAQs' Time/ Ultimecia Plot FAQ:
Further, Ultimecia's Witch Embodiment powers granted her the ability to reach
into other's minds and pull things out (as she often displays when completely
removing a character's stock of a certain type of Spell). In the case of
Griever, she simply manifested the thoughts she pulled from Squall's mind
regarding what he believed to be the most powerful being in existence. This
would be a great strategical move on Ultimecia's part. This is made even
more plausible when examining what the Japanese version has Ultimecia say:

Ultimecia: Your feelings, I shall summon the most powerful of things
[from them]! The more strongly you feel, that will be what shall torment
you. Fufu."

What theory would that be?

(if not what you already wrote above)
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The Time/ Ultimecia Plot FAQ from GameFAQs greatly explains the new theory and why the R=U theory is impossible. I don't remember very well what the FAQ said, but I believe the new theory is based on what I stated regarding Ultimecia's ambitions, yes.
 
I remember a part (I think near the end) of FFVIII where they show all of the characters eyes upclose (both male and female) one after the other very fast. :lol It looked like they were showing the same person over and over again at a slightly different angle.
 
Grivenger said:
According to GameFAQs' Time/ Ultimecia Plot FAQ:
Further, Ultimecia's Witch Embodiment powers granted her the ability to reach
into other's minds and pull things out (as she often displays when completely
removing a character's stock of a certain type of Spell).
Click to expand...


Whoa whoa whoa.

Where was that shown in the game.

Simple removing the stock of a spell is just a more powerful mana drain.
 
Grivenger said:
Ultimecia: Your feelings, I shall summon the most powerful of things
[from them]! The more strongly you feel, that will be what shall torment
you. Fufu."
Click to expand...
So basically, not unlike the trick Gozer pulled that resulted in a giant Staypuft marshmallow man.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Would this not work with any of the Nomura faces at a similar angle?
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If I'm not wrong, it would also work with Edea's FMV model. It must mean Rinoa is Edea is Ultimecia! :P
 
Himuro said:
Well, when you get to her castle your powers are locked right?
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Locking powers is not the same as taking them and turning them against you.

The bosses you fight to recover your powers are not based on the powers of the characters they were stolen from.

edit: even more, when you defeat a boss, you get to choose what power to unlock.
 
Himuro said:
I always like it how people make fun of the "SHE LOOKS LIKE RINOA!!!" joke point, when there's other substantial amount of evidence to support the theory.

That's right, ignore the hints splattered across the game and bring up the Utlimania!
Click to expand...
Like
Then there's the much more important question: Why would Ultimecia want to go back in the past in the first place? To save or be with Squall!
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So her plan to go back and save or be with Squall... is to compress time and kill him in a big dungeon? That she knows is doomed to failure because her younger self was there?
 
ElFly said:
Why would we care about what is told outside the game.

FF8 itself can be interpreted like this. What the guide says is unimportant.
Click to expand...

Well, no. The Ultimania guides are essentially gospel as far as backstory and such. The theory is patently incorrect, even though it is distinctly more compelling than the actual explanation. You can't really "interpret" FF8 that way when there's nothing in the game to support it outside of really screwy readings of a handful of scenes.

It's a nice idea for a twist, but a bit too subtle for the storytelling on display in the PSone FFs.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Like

So her plan to go back and save or be with Squall... is to compress time and kill him in a big dungeon? That she knows is doomed to failure because her younger self was there?
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Squall and co. go to kill Ultimecia. She doesn't invite them to her dungeon.
 
I haven't played this game in so long, I can't remember anything about the story, much less who Utlimecia is. So in a way, its a spoiler. :lol
 
MattKeil said:
Well, no. The Ultimania guides are essentially gospel as far as backstory and such.
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Nah, only the game itself should be considered. The body of the works is in those four CDs, nothing else. Well, maybe, the manual.
 
Was Sony still doing the localizations for Square at this point? I can't imagine the VIII translation is as accurate as it could be in terms of getting the facts right.
 
Himuro said:
FFVIII's translation appears to be fine, and the localization is amazing.
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I don't really agree with what they did with Squall's character, but yeah, all the fundamentals seem to be in tact.
 
I thought she was too. Can I just saying read this thread and see ultimecia written a bazillion times, that what I used to think was a pretty cool name, just strikes me as really stupid.
 
Himuro said:
What'd they do to Squall's character?
Click to expand...

The way his character handled the
Rinoa in space
section was completely different, for one. In the English version he was all "
She's going to DIE!!!1!
" whereas in the Japanese version he seemed to be more in control.

Another thing that irked me was the whole "whatever" business (which is overblown in the first place). In the Japanese version he said "warukatta" ("sorry" or "my bad") which certainly can be seen as sarcastic, but I felt there were times when he said it sincerely.
 
Ha, fine.

Another subtlety:

Rinoa: "Are we gonna make it?"
Squall: "Don't worry."

Versus:

Rinoa: "Will we be saved?"
Squall: "I'll save us."

I really need to play through that whole section again (it's been half a year). The progression of their relationship just felt more natural to me in the original.
 
Himuro said:
You appear to not even like jrpgs but you always appear in threads about them. Isn't that far more stupid?
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Hah, no, I love JRPGs, and Final Fantasy VIII is one of my favorites. But it's dumb trash, just like superhero comics and shonen manga and most JRPGs.

Final Fantasy VIII has the distinction of being such a wonderful mix of dead serious and utterly ridiculous that it's actually derogatory to try and consider it as being more complicated than it is at face value.
 
Zoe said:
The way his character handled the
Rinoa in space
section was completely different, for one. In the English version he was all "
She's going to DIE!!!1!
" whereas in the Japanese version he seemed to be more in control.

Another thing that irked me was the whole "whatever" business (which is overblown in the first place). In the Japanese version he said "warukatta" ("sorry" or "my bad") which certainly can be seen as sarcastic, but I felt there were times when he said it sincerely.
Click to expand...

well, been ages but that bit for me was really quite moving as you get that he's panicking because he's afraid of losing rinoa. It is JPRG with a central love story after all. I should revisit it but I tried a while back and the visuals lost me :(
 
Jax said:
well, been ages but that bit for me was really quite moving as you get that he's panicking because he's afraid of losing rinoa. It is JPRG with a central love story after all. I should revisit it but I tried a while back and the visuals lost me :(
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Being panicky is an appropriate response, but the shift in his personality really felt too dramatic. That's one of the biggest general complaints you hear across the board about the way the game handled the relationship.
 
Wow, this is one of my favorite games and ive played it several times and never heard of this theory. Im not buying it though. Square would make it more obvious if it were true.

Kinda like Laguna being Squalls father.
 
Zoe said:
Rinoa: "Are we gonna make it?"
Squall: "Don't worry."

Versus:

Rinoa: "Will we be saved?"
Squall: "I'll save us."
Click to expand...
Such a small change from the original, but it has so much more feeling behind it.
 
Never bought it, even Griever has nothing to do with it, he came from Squall's mind not because Ultimecia had previous knowlodge of it.
 
Himuro said:
Well there are some small things in the game. Like, did you notice how in the movie Laguna's making, when he wields the gunbalde that Seifer's battle stance? Think that movie Laguna made influenced him so much it helped define who he was? FFVIII is full of stuff like this.
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No, I never noticed this either. You are gonna make me play the game again and pay attention to every small detail. :lol You are right though, the game does have alot of stuff like this. You could be right, I would have to replay it again and pay more attention to really argue against it.
 
I don't really buy this theory, but like other people have said it certainly is interesting. I really have to get around to playing Final Fantasy VIII again. It's without a doubt my favourite and most cherished game, I used to play it all the time.

The scene with the big battle between Balamb Garden and Galbadia Garden was absolutely amazing. I remember when I got to that for the first time and being absolutely blown away.
 
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