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Fox got bigger hit, but WB happy with Singer.

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Ripclawe

Banned
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/risky_business_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003019246

Fox got bigger hit, but WB happy with Singer

By Anne Thompson

As summer nears its end, "X-Men: The Last Stand," which nabbed middling reviews, seems to have exceeded expectations with a $441 million worldwide gross, while "Superman Returns" -- though it earned a strong, positive ranking of 76% on RottenTomatoes.com -- has yet to break the $200 million mark domestically. Although "Superman" is still playing overseas with a $347 million worldwide gross to date, it has failed to return on its lofty expectations. The drama behind Bryan Singer's departure from 20th Century Fox's "X-Men" franchise to direct "Superman" for Warner Bros. Pictures left much Sturm und Drang in its wake. But who were the real winners and losers on this deal?

Warners was delighted to poach Singer -- a proven tentpole director with a canny understanding of the action-adventure universe -- from Fox. He was available because Fox Filmed Entertainment co-chairman Tom Rothman had been playing a game of chicken with him on his "Last Stand" deal: Singer wanted to cash in on the final installment of the "X-Men" saga. When Warners lured Singer away with the chance to direct "Superman" and a top-dollar deal -- sources say it was $10 million vs. 7% of the gross -- Rothman was livid. He promptly shut down Singer's Bad Hat Harry Prods. office on the Fox lot -- though Singer returned the next day to the Fox set of his TV series "House."

"We were in a heightened emotional state of mind," Fox president Hutch Parker says. "We believed that Bryan was going to do 'X-Men 3,' and when he made a different choice, it was scary and daunting to be losing someone so essential to the expression of the franchise. We had to rethink how to approach this. There was a lot of anxiety for everybody."

Rather than wait for Singer, Fox made the decision to go full steam ahead. "We needed the movie," Parker says, "and it was critical that it get made in that window. We were wary about where the comic movie would be in the larger cycle."

Fox first proceeded with director Matthew Vaughn and then Brett Ratner to meet the tentpole's original May 26 release date. But it cost the studio to make that target. (According to sources close to the movie, "Last Stand" cost about $168 million after tax rebates.) Producer Lauren Shuler Donner shouldered the burden of wrestling the movie into submission; the studio rushed two pricey screenwriters, Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg, to complete their scripts; and the studio paid dearly to get elaborate visual effects from about six FX houses, including Weta Digital, finished in time. In the short term, the studio clearly won the summer 2006 battle with Warners. But where is the "X-Men" franchise going forward?

Singer was the creative force behind the "X-Men" franchise, and now he's gone. Ratner is not in the picture; the sense in Hollywood is that Fox scored with "Last Stand" despite the director, not because of him. With its "X-Men" actors now too expensive to reassemble, Fox is proceeding with development on two "X-Men" spinoffs, starring Hugh Jackman as Wolverine (David Benioff and David Ayer have written drafts) and Ian McKellen as Magneto. The bloom is definitely off the "X-Men" rose. One could argue that in the long term, the studio would have been better off paying Singer to keep him or waiting to get him back. (Rothman and Singer eventually buried the hatchet over lunch.)

Freed from Fox's tough budget controls ("X-Men" cost $80 million and "X-Men 2" $120 million), Singer was ecstatic to be moving to a studio like Warners, which was willing to let him spend. But at the July 2005 Comic-Con International in San Diego, perhaps in a heady state of jet lag from his long flight from the "Superman" set in Australia, Singer launched the film's marketing campaign on a spectacularly wrong foot, happily proclaiming that the movie he was shooting was the studio's most expensive movie ever and might cost $250 million. From that moment on, Warners marketing tried to manage that number.

In fact, Warners failed to get out from behind that disastrous budget. The Internet ran rampant with reports that the movie was in the $300 million range. When the studio admitted to writing off about $60 million in costs from all the previous iterations of "Superman," some reporters added that to the studio's official $209 million budget -- a figure no one ever believed. If Warners had convinced Singer from the start to make a movie closer to two hours, it might have saved some money and come out ahead, instead of leaving entire $10 million sequences on the cutting-room floor.

"'Superman Returns' will be profitable for us," says Warner Bros. production president Jeff Robinov. "We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture. We believe in Bryan and the franchise. Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made."

But what really mattered to Warners was the successful relaunch of its franchise, and to that end they wanted to keep their director happy -- even if it meant letting him deliver a two-hour, 40-minute movie. "If Warners goes ahead with the 'Superman Returns' sequel," says producer Don Murphy ("From Hell"), "then they've ended up well because they've gone from having a wannabe franchise to a real franchise."

Returning to Comic-Con in July, Singer announced that he and Warners are in discussions about doing the sequel for 2009. But Singer said he "had certain issues" with Warners' marketing campaign. He also acknowledged his film's competition. "We had a little 'Pirates' and a little 'Prada.' It is a chick flick to some degree; it is a love story."

As challenging as it was for Singer to re-establish "Superman" by building on Richard Donner's 1978 classic, he also was working with a decidedly retro hero from a bygone time. There was little that Warners marketing could do to make Superman seem less square, wholesome and, finally, old-fashioned. (The "X-Men" and "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchises do seem younger, hipper and more dangerous.) Choosing to reprise Lex Luthor might have been a too-familiar choice as well. "Bryan kicked ass," journalist Cheo Hodari Coker says. "But the principal argument does hold: Does the world really need Superman? Clark is a big blue Boy Scout. I wonder if this generation really has any heroes. Everyone is pushing in some way to be unheroic."

But Singer does know where he has to go with the sequel. He told Comic-Can fans that he would add more "scary sci-fi in the next movie." "We can now go to into the action realm."

While some "Superman Returns" viewers objected to the addition of an illegitimate child of Lois Lane and Superman (which never appeared in any of the comic books), Singer intends to proceed with that story arc. "There's a lot of room to go with that character and his upbringing and human background and Krypton heritage," he says. "He's the genetic material of both parents. Superman doesn't have that. It's hard to write for Superman. He's a tough character to create insurmountable obstacles for. This one is unique and insurmountable." For the sequel, Singer will be able to expand and play around with what he's introduced, and "bring in more of the energy" of the contemporary comics, he promised.

Singer likely will do another movie before the sequel to "Superman Returns," according to sources, possibly Warner Independent's "The Mayor of Castro Street" or "Logan's Run" at the big studio. Finally, though, Warners president Alan Horn and production chief Jeff Robinov want this tentpole director to be making movies on their lot -- and not Fox's. And that may, in the long run, be the real payoff to their "Superman Returns" investment.
 

TheWolf

Banned
Superman Returns was a much better film than X-Men 3. all Ratner had to do was ride on the coattails of the previous Singer films and Saturday morning cartoon. of course it was going to be a big hit.
 

Snaku

Banned
TheWolf said:
Superman Returns was a much better film than X-Men 3. all Ratner had to do was ride on the coattails of the previous Singer films and Saturday morning cartoon. of course it was going to be a big hit.

There is much truth within this post.
 
Snaku said:
There is much truth within this post.

Damn your avatar.


megatron.jpg


" I still function!!!!"
 

White Man

Member
TheWolf said:
Superman Returns was a much better film than X-Men 3. all Ratner had to do was ride on the coattails of the previous Singer films and Saturday morning cartoon. of course it was going to be a big hit.

I disagree. X3 gave the audience what it wanted. Superman Returns gave the audience what it didn't want. People don't want to see an iconic figure go all emo; beaten by personal crises that the average 18 year old can handle. We wanted to see Superman being super. What was got was a Superman that has swallowed the emasculation of the 90s and 00s whole. The movie bit. It had 2 action sequence. It was a failure.
 

Ripclawe

Banned
Singer didn't help when he said Superman was a chick movie, the more he talked the less of an event movie it became as opening day got closer.

Superman Returns gave the audience what it didn't want. People don't want to see an iconic figure go all emo; beaten by personal crises that the average 18 year old can handle. We wanted to see Superman being super. What was got was a Superman that has swallowed the emasculation of the 90s and 00s whole. The movie bit. It had 2 action sequence. It was a failure.

That about sum it up.
 

jett

D-Member
"'Superman Returns' will be profitable for us," says Warner Bros. production president Jeff Robinov. "We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture. We believe in Bryan and the franchise. Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made."

042_G.jpg


...i'll let it slide because I don't consider Batman to be a superhero, but just this one time Robinov!
 
The rebuttal is right; this is damage control total. X3 wasn't great, but it was at least satisfying. Superman Returns is a BO failure because it was an emo snorefest. You lose, Singer!
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
ugh, i forgot the haters.....

This really has very little to do with the merits of either movie. The article contradicts itself on many points and makes assertions that don't hold up at all under scrutiny.
 

jett

D-Member
Synthesizer Patel said:
The rebuttal is right; this is damage control total. X3 wasn't great, but it was at least satisfying. Superman Returns is a BO failure because it was an emo snorefest. You lose, Singer!

What if you liked both movies, like me? Am I doomed to self-implode?

I liked Superman much more though, one of my faves of the year so far. I'll remember X3 as nothing but a brainless action movie...an entertaining one, of course. :p
 

White Man

Member
DMczaf said:
Horn has already announced a Superman sequel for 2009, lets party!

djparty.gif


Wheres Matrix?!

I hope they pick a better script this time. And a more competent directior. All of SInger's previous movies have turned out well, but I have a sinking feeling that was due to him having good scripts than anything else. In every one of his movies, he has never showed any sort of flair or personal style.
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
DMczaf said:
Horn has already announced a Superman sequel for 2009, lets party!

djparty.gif


Wheres Matrix?!


I'm here!

djparty.gif

superman_returns_set_18.jpg
 

Meier

Member
Teh Hamburglar said:
I didn't watch Superman Returns because it looked boring. I still have little interest in watching it when it hits DVD.

Really great film and definitely worth checking out in the theatre (even if it's a crappy one). Catch it at your local second-run/dollar venue and you won't be disappointed.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
With SR it was fun to see the character on screen again, but the emo-ness of it wore on me... with X3 I'm still pissed off about how Scott, Xavier and Jean were handled... especially Scott, he didn't even f'n get an onscreen dead... WTF. Offscreen deaths are usually reserved for bit characters.

Oh and let me say one more time... Juggernaut? They shouldn't have even bothered.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Superman Returns was the only superhero movie in recent years that I actually felt inspired by. It was a great work of art, and just had a ton of great moments.

X3 was alright, but pretty depressing.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Tamanon said:
Superman Returns was the only superhero movie in recent years that I actually felt inspired by. It was a great work of art, and just had a ton of great moments.

X3 was alright, but pretty depressing.

Inspired to do what if I might ask? Feel emo?
 

Tamanon

Banned
See I didn't see any more emo in that movie than any other regular movie. It was more along the lines of really representing a superhero more. Emo would be questioning himself and being depressed that Lois wasn't with him, he didn't ever seem depressed. Just tried to win her back, then saw that he couldn't and just was Superman.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Tamanon said:
See I didn't see any more emo in that movie than any other regular movie. It was more along the lines of really representing a superhero more. Emo would be questioning himself and being depressed that Lois wasn't with him, he didn't ever seem depressed. Just tried to win her back, then saw that he couldn't and just was Superman.

You never said what you were inspired to do by the movie. I consider all the long looks throughout the movie at Lois as pretty emo.
 
seems like everyone was wowed by the nostalgic music and the poster shots and glossed over the fact that the plot and script were crap in superman returns. Singer rode the nostalgia train just as much as ratner.
 
That CHUD rebuttal seems to undercut its argument when it talks about the success of the comicses and their spinoffs(eses?). X-Men books sold in the Top 10 when Claremont started writing them again, easily the shittiest comics of recent memory. The moral: Dipshits Love Spending Money On X-Men Comics Regardless Of What Is Inside Them. Your arguments should not rely on the foolish acts of dipshits.

In the long run, WB is creatively in better shape, because you've got a franchise on the creative level of Spider-Man, with a singular vision, as opposed to the X-Films, which are creatively bankrupt. Singer proved this himself when Superman Returns showed all the flair and visual dynamism that couldn't be found in even a frame of the first two X-Films. The X-Films were clearly just studio-driven drek-fests, which is why he probably left them. Much to the studio's chagrin, Singer found his voice on this film and spent money accordingly. In the long run, this will end up in a stronger franchise, much in the way Batman Begins will. The X-Films, Fantastic Four, all that shit will have great opening weekends and then drop the next week. They will also sell tons of DVDs. Strong creative franchises will not only sell the first round of DVDs, they'll be able sell 10th anniversary sets of trilogies until we're all carbonized, ad infinitum.
 
Kabuki Waq said:
seems like everyone was wowed by the nostalgic music and the poster shots and glossed over the fact that the plot and script were crap in superman returns. Singer rode the nostalgia train just as much as ratner.


How did Ratner ride the nostalgia train?
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Kabuki Waq said:
seems like everyone was wowed by the nostalgic music and the poster shots and glossed over the fact that the plot and script were crap in superman returns. Singer rode the nostalgia train just as much as ratner.

Kevin Spacey is no Gene Hackman that's for sure... I did like the few references to the previous films, you act like you've been here... Lex with another real estate plan... but overall there was entirely too much "slow" in this movie.

What does Superman(not Clark) spend much of his time in this movie doing?

If SR is singer finding his voice why has he seemingly indicated he's not interested in continuing that series himself?
 

White Man

Member
Kabuki Waq said:
seems like everyone was wowed by the nostalgic music and the poster shots and glossed over the fact that the plot and script were crap in superman returns. Singer rode the nostalgia train just as much as ratner.

Yup, I always joked that just when the audience was getting bored enough, that old classic Superman theme would pop up to convince people something interesting was happening again.

I also hated the pointless reintroduction of characters, namely Ma Kent. She added absolutely nothing to the movie. All of the footage with her could've been replaced with something, god help us, interesting or even, and I know this is unthinkable, cut completely to shorten the movie's god damned long-ass running time.
 

Cheebs

Member
White Man said:
I hope they pick a better script this time. And a more competent directior.
Niether will change. WB is very much still behind Singer for the sequel(WB's own President even said as much) and I highly doubt Singer will change writers.

Love it or hate it Singer's Superman Returns "Two" will be what will be on screen Summer 2009.
 

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
I liked SR. It straddled the edge between good (X-men, etc) and great (Spider-man, batman) superhero movies and just barely fell in the good category. I'm not going to go into the specifics of why I thought it was good, I'll just say this: This movie has ****ing Kumar in it and the others didn't. That's worth atleast one star on a 4 star scale here people.
 

teiresias

Member
inger proved this himself when Superman Returns showed all the flair and visual dynamism that couldn't be found in even a frame of the first two X-Films.

X2 is five times the movie SR is. As much as I find Singer annoying and self-absorbed he did a great job with X2. The last 15 minutes of X2 has more satisfying action and comic moments in it than the entirety of SR. On top of that, we have a pretty damn good narrative underlying the whole thing. It seemed Singer nearly breathed X-Men - granted some people felt he kept the all-out action too tame, but I never did mind that given the kind of universe he set up for the films - but Singer was really out of his depth with Superman and seemed to have no idea how to approach the material.

Perhaps if he'd reimagined the entire franchise for himself rather than try and coast on the coattails of the original film than we would have gotten something imaginative and worth watching. As it was, we got nothing of the sort.
 

whytemyke

Honorary Canadian.
Am I the only one who thinks Singer is overrated as a director? Everyone heralds him as this great action guy, but every movie he's done has been above-average at best. Superman Returns was sweet in some scenes but obviously hurt because Singer had such a passion for the character that he couldn't tear himself away from it-- even though he tried four or five times. :lol

X1... well, christ, just think: "You know what happens to a toad when it gets hit by lightning?" and that should take care of that. X2 was cool but again, just above-average. Don't get me wrong, I love these movies and really liked them, but they're such awesome stories and characters that you'd have to be a complete knob not to make a decent movie out of them.
 
whytemyke said:
Am I the only one who thinks Singer is overrated as a director? Everyone heralds him as this great action guy, but every movie he's done has been above-average at best. Superman Returns was sweet in some scenes but obviously hurt because Singer had such a passion for the character that he couldn't tear himself away from it-- even though he tried four or five times. :lol

X1... well, christ, just think: "You know what happens to a toad when it gets hit by lightning?" and that should take care of that. X2 was cool but again, just above-average. Don't get me wrong, I love these movies and really liked them, but they're such awesome stories and characters that you'd have to be a complete knob not to make a decent movie out of them.

Only good action scene in X-Men was the Nightcrawler at the White House scene. X3 had Jean Grey going apeshit in her house which was cool but not really a fight.
 
L.A. Times via Superherohype.com said:
Warner Bros. Pictures President Alan Horn talked to the Los Angeles Times about the performance of Superman Returns and echoed director Bryan Singer's comments from Comic-Con that they are hoping for a sequel in 2009:

Horn expects "Superman Returns" to eventually gross about $400 million worldwide, more than last year's hit "Batman Begins." Nonetheless, "Superman" fell at least $100 million short of his expectations.

"I thought it was a very successful movie, but I think it should have done $500 million worldwide," Horn said. "We should have had perhaps a little more action to satisfy the young male crowd."

Still, he's betting Warner has firmly reestablished the "Superman" franchise and is planning another installment for summer 2009.

So now everyone will be happy. Go Supes!
 
"I thought it was a very successful movie, but I think it should have done $500 million worldwide," Horn said. "We should have had perhaps a little more action to satisfy the young male crowd."

Its ****ing Superman. The one character they can do just about any action sequence they want. And the movie had how much action? The trailer nearly put me to sleep.
 

whytemyke

Honorary Canadian.
Teh Hamburglar said:
Its ****ing Superman. The one character they can do just about any action sequence they want. And the movie had how much action? The trailer nearly put me to sleep.
BUT HE GOT SHOT IN THE EYE!!!11one
 

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
I gotta say, I too was disappointed in Superman Returns. At first I was happy Singer was directing it. However, the more he talked about it, the more concerned I became. Then I saw the movie and was shocked at how empty it was.

Where was the action? Where was Clark? Where was the dialogue?

It was a decent movie, the visuals were impressive, but Batman Begins was a much, much better *film*. Singer was in over his head on this one and unfortunately the script sucked. Routh...everyone for that matter just didn't have enough meaningful dialogue and the illegitimate child is just...odd. Gah.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
The craziest thing about the child was that I'd completely forgotten that Superman was briefly human in Superman II... just forgot ALL about that part, so the whole time I'm watching the movie til I finally remember at the end I'm like.. huh?
 

Solo

Member
whytemyke said:
Am I the only one who thinks Singer is overrated as a director?

No, you are not. The Usual Suspects was great the first time, but loses all of its steam upon knowing the twist. Apt Pupil was garbage, and the X movies woefully mediocre. I havent seen Superman Returns (To Stalk Lois) yet. On my score card, he's very middle of the pack. Competent, but not a master. Not flashy, but a little bland. He reminds me a bit of Ron Howard, in that he's sort of a paint-by-numbers director.
 
Solo said:
No, you are not. The Usual Suspects was great the first time, but loses all of its steam upon knowing the twist. Apt Pupil was garbage, and the X movies woefully mediocre. I havent seen Superman Returns () yet. On my score card, he's very middle of the pack. Competent, but not a master. Not flashy, but a little bland. He reminds me a bit of Ron Howard, in that he's sort of a paint-by-numbers director.

I felt the same way until SR, to be perfectly honest.
 

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
DarienA said:
The craziest thing about the child was that I'd completely forgotten that Superman was briefly human in Superman II... just forgot ALL about that part, so the whole time I'm watching the movie til I finally remember at the end I'm like.. huh?
Heh, I forgot Superman wiped Lois' memory for a while there, so for some time I was like "wtf? don't you recognize him??"
 
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