-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Frieren: Beyond Journey's End is turning into a cultural phenomenon in Japan
Doom85
Gold Member
The original Kino’s Journey anime is personally in my top 10 favorite anime, absolutely love that title.
Mushishi was great of what I saw, IIRC I got through most of it but didn’t get to finish it for one reason or another, but it is one I’d like to go back to sometime.
Werewolf Jones
Member
Fraud series. Never heard a peep about it until it got anime exposure.
killatopak
Gold Member
You know a requirement for manga to have an anime adaptation is for them to be popular right?
Werewolf Jones
Member
In Japan yeah but I'm not posting on 2channel.
killatopak
Gold Member
Read the title of the thread again.In Japan yeah but I'm not posting on 2channel.
Werewolf Jones
Member
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I've had this in my list for 2 months.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's actually a genuinely good show
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Doom85
Gold Member
This equally good show as well.
Just started this one, pretty good so far.
Also got back to and almost finished Undead Murder Farce. This is a sadly overlooked gem from earlier last year. If you want a show with great detective work and handles the concept of a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen type of tale far better than the 2003 turd of a film, check this one out. Also directed by the guy who directed the Kaguya-Sama anime, so the directing and editing are on point.
(don’t freak out, the head is in the cage is alive, she’s an immortal being)
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Ooooh I watched that one as well, yeah that one is also pretty good.Also got back to and almost finished Undead Murder Farce. This is a sadly overlooked gem from earlier last year. If you want a show with great detective work and handles the concept of a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen type of tale far better than the 2003 turd of a film, check this one out. Also directed by the guy who directed the Kaguya-Sama anime, so the directing and editing are on point.
(don’t freak out, the head is in the cage is alive, she’s an immortal being)
Last edited:
Pejo
Member
I finally started watching and caught up in this show. I was blown away. It felt like a proper JRPG adventure with plenty of levity, heartfelt moments and themes, and just some of the best subtle character interactions in an anime that I've seen in years.
Honestly, Hollywood and the west in general could learn so much about strong female characters from this show, it's almost ridiculous how much better it is handled. Frieren is just insanely strong, but never lets it define her character, nor does she use the strength to look down at others. She has weaknesses and basically the entire show after meeting Fern is a growth arc. Then, at other decisive times, she makes the viewer feel like she's got it all handled and you can rely on her wisdom and strength. Fern is a great foil to Frieren, in that she brings the very human parts of life front and center and makes Frieren consider things differently by forcing her to confront and engage in it (unlike Frieren's past with Himmel where he just showed her patience and kindness and hoped she'd catch on, on her own). Stark is also a great supporting character. Never overbearing, respectful, but not a pushover. He's not the main character but he fits his role in the show and the party successfully and has growth moments and motivations of his own.
Anyways, I can't say enough good things about the show, and I'm really excited to see it continue.
Honestly, Hollywood and the west in general could learn so much about strong female characters from this show, it's almost ridiculous how much better it is handled. Frieren is just insanely strong, but never lets it define her character, nor does she use the strength to look down at others. She has weaknesses and basically the entire show after meeting Fern is a growth arc. Then, at other decisive times, she makes the viewer feel like she's got it all handled and you can rely on her wisdom and strength. Fern is a great foil to Frieren, in that she brings the very human parts of life front and center and makes Frieren consider things differently by forcing her to confront and engage in it (unlike Frieren's past with Himmel where he just showed her patience and kindness and hoped she'd catch on, on her own). Stark is also a great supporting character. Never overbearing, respectful, but not a pushover. He's not the main character but he fits his role in the show and the party successfully and has growth moments and motivations of his own.
Anyways, I can't say enough good things about the show, and I'm really excited to see it continue.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
There already was a perfect fantasy setting in manga and anime - Lodoss.
Lunarorbit
Gold Member
Really like the western voice actor for frieren. Frieren is always sleepy and it comes through on the voice work.
Just a great show
Just a great show
lachesis
Member
Started watching the show. 3 eps in. I normally don’t like slow paced, bloated storytelling and visualization - but it is opposite that it’s easy going pace does add to the subtle emotional impact - and how everyone’s so soft spoken. I was watching JJK S2 right before, so it’s a welcome change of pace. 
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
I'm happy, the series is good and the protagonist is cute.
But kat is more cute
But kat is more cute
Last edited:
Paltheos
Member
It's alright. The show does a poor job of ingratiating itself to me from the start with a bog standard scenario, flat dialgoue, not even bothering to name the demon king. Obviously the focus is on what happens afterwards - the life of a quasi-immortal elf and all that - but I didn't find myself caring about most of the stuff going on, least of all the hero's party because it all seemed so lazily put together. 'They're exploring dungeons because that's what parties do.' 'Frieren's been attacked by a mimic - that's something that happens in RPGs, right?' 'Look at Himmel - doesn't he have such understandable flaws? That humanizes him, right?' Everything in Frieren is functional but it rarely tries to say or do anything interesting.
I think the show picks up a bit when they plop in a good ol' fashioned tournament arc in the second half but it's weird. I still don't give a damn about most of the new characters, but the show's better for allot of the world building that it didn't really care for before. The idea behind the hard-to-catch bird was neat too but again shounen battle mechanics aren't the series strengths and it wisely only... sometimes tries playing by them? And then other times just uses generic magic missiles and shields as tools to move the plot along rather than entertain with spectacle.
Frieren's not really smart or creative enough to be a compelling character drama, so I was struggling what to think of it for a while, and I'm thinking that I'm not really the audience for this show. It's aimed at a younger audience who haven't had anything but LN slop (the praise for the animation seems to corroborate that too - Frieren looks ok). It's paced slowly enough to let younger people take it all in whereas someone like me who's seen all this before is pretty bored.
The one part of the show I really like is the character Denken. Dude's a fucking badass. Immediately outsmarts everyone and does whatever's needed to push his scenario along. Also one of the only reasonable characters in the show.
I think the show picks up a bit when they plop in a good ol' fashioned tournament arc in the second half but it's weird. I still don't give a damn about most of the new characters, but the show's better for allot of the world building that it didn't really care for before. The idea behind the hard-to-catch bird was neat too but again shounen battle mechanics aren't the series strengths and it wisely only... sometimes tries playing by them? And then other times just uses generic magic missiles and shields as tools to move the plot along rather than entertain with spectacle.
Frieren's not really smart or creative enough to be a compelling character drama, so I was struggling what to think of it for a while, and I'm thinking that I'm not really the audience for this show. It's aimed at a younger audience who haven't had anything but LN slop (the praise for the animation seems to corroborate that too - Frieren looks ok). It's paced slowly enough to let younger people take it all in whereas someone like me who's seen all this before is pretty bored.
The one part of the show I really like is the character Denken. Dude's a fucking badass. Immediately outsmarts everyone and does whatever's needed to push his scenario along. Also one of the only reasonable characters in the show.
Your analysis doesn’t make any sense and the show has great animation.
Danteyke223
Member
I felt the show actually does a lot of interesting things that are rarely seen in modern shows or animation
One of the best things I liked about the show is that the Demons are just that, demons. No grey area, no , oh here's this demon that's actually a good guy, or an Anti-Villain type of stuff. Nope natural enemies of Humans and Elves, and the show/manga even highlights how deceptive Demons are trying to play on Human emotions to survive and kill more of em.
The party thing isn't lazily put together ? I'm not sure where that is coming from, they went on a ten-year journey and cleared the most Dungeons in their life time to gain experience to fight the Demon King. The mimic thing is a gag, but I'll give you that one it does get tiring.
The main concept of the show is time, regret and missing out on life by shutting yourself off. It does it rather well, and not sure what you mean not doing anything interesting. For all intents and purposes Frieren is an overpowered MC , but even she is not a Mary Sue, since she's full of flaws and issues that she needs to process. I wouldn't say this show is aimed at younger audiences, it deals with a lot of heavy stuff, and not just the killing part. One of the best episodes is when they go into a small village and meet a really old warrior Dwarf, who is protecting said village for his wife that passed away (but it goes so much deeper - and I don't want to spoil anything here for those that want to watch it).
This one's also explained within the show, where Humanity basically went and chose the path of least resistance when it comes to Magic, and most of the current ERAs magic is easy to use, and does not require huge amounts of mana for attacks. There's a reason where Freiren says that in the current era she doesn't need anything more than basic attack magic, it's cause she knows so many OP spells that can wreck everything in a close vicinity. (The tournament arc shows this).
"(the praise for the animation seems to corroborate that too - Frieren looks ok)." - Eh for me it's not just about looks but also fluidity and animation itself. It's really good, and continuous, doesn't feel like I'm watching a hastly put together show. Like AOT Season 1, or One Punch Man Season 2.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
I like it. It's a little bit melancholy, but nice.
Paltheos
Member
Absolutely. I admit fully I was against the show when it talked about a demon king it couldn't even be bothered to name, but the interactions between the hero's party did nothing to win me over. What I saw, throughout the show, were scenes leading to a single beat - some lesson for Frieren to learn that she won't pick up on at the time and will only come to appreciate later, maybe with a quirk for Himmel the audience is meant to find endearing - taking place between a bunch of characters whose relationships and they themselves were not particularly robust. I didn't buy, for instance, that the drunk priest is much more than a drunk priest, which is odd too because the early episodes when he's older do more to characterize the dude, but in all of the many flashbacks the party's just so boring and nonconcerned. Take the dungeon flashback, for instance, where the party ruminates on traveling down the wrong path to find treasure. That's... a little too meta, and more to the point they seem entirely nonplussed that they're risking their lives on this endeavor, casually discussing the pros and cons of the decision. I don't buy it at all, and it's a stake in the heart of a show that's supposed to be a character piece.
I also don't buy that these people have been traveling together for 10 years (or multiple years anyway; given how the party didn't visibly age throughout the journey I can only guess x years in any given flashback). There's an air of familiarity that's lacking in their dialogue, and much of it is on the nose too which had me wondering if this was not a show for my demographic. That's what I meant by 'younger than me' - You can deal with heavy stuff and be for younger audiences, just not like kid kids (I meant teenagers).
I remember that dwarf episode by the way - I think the only part I remember about it is that the old man's lost some of his marbles. It was the only part of the episode that was subtle I believe, so that's probably why it stood out to me. I liked that part.
I don't think everyone else being bad makes this show good. Some of the scenarios are good though - The kind-hearted family that tries taking in an orphan demon only to get killed; the demons that use humanity's compassion to forgive against them to try getting them to lower their town defenses. I can't quite put my finger on why I didn't enjoy them. Soured by the story otherwise? Maybe.
That doesn't make it not boring. It doesn't have to be interesting either. I know that's not a focal point. I brought it up mostly as a means of communicating that I was trying to find something to latch onto as the show was boring me otherwise.
That's fair. I sometimes mix my opinion of art and animation together unless one or the other is really spectacular. I'll say 'the general look of the show' unimpressed me. Some moments that stuck out to me - like that time Fern sitting down in a chair at a bar was unnecessarily lavishly drawn - but no love for the overall look. It's fine.
PS: Thanks for actually replying by the way. I disagree, but I appreciate it over someone telling me I'm wrong and not elaborating at all.
Sure you want an elaboration?
The entire point of the series went over your head, all the depth and subtlety and quality were lost to you, but instead of realizing that maybe you didn’t get it, you rationalized it all away as everyone else being a simpleton for enjoying it.
Another possibility exists.
Hudo
Member
it is a pretty good manga, I have to say. Haven't watched the Anime, yet.
Has a "chill melancholy" vibe to it most of the times. Until it doesn't. But I appreciate that it's not annoying and that Frieren is an interesting character.
The only other recent fantasy manga that I enjoy as much is Tower Dungeon, by none other than Nihei Tsutomu. (at least so far).
Has a "chill melancholy" vibe to it most of the times. Until it doesn't. But I appreciate that it's not annoying and that Frieren is an interesting character.
The only other recent fantasy manga that I enjoy as much is Tower Dungeon, by none other than Nihei Tsutomu. (at least so far).
Last edited:
Pejo
Member
Slice of life fantasy adventure would be how I'd categorize it. There are some action scenes but they're mostly just scattered throughout. The meat of the show is character interactions and reflections.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Not really my cup of tea, thanks for the info.
It’s fantasy but the style is a bit like Kino no Tabi or Mushishi. Slower paced, character driven, and the main character is not very emotional.
The premise is that a party of heroes defeats the big bad guy and saves the kingdom, but one of the party members is an immortal elf, and after a short time (by her standards) the rest of the heroic party start to die of old age. She reminisces about the time spent with them and starts to change as a person, and goes on a new journey while continuing to reflect on the past.
The protagonist’s immortality is well done, kind of like an Tolkienian elf, and gives the show a different perspective.
InterMusketeer
Member
A friend showed me a random episode and it was just action scenes. This colored my impression of the show as just another (native) isekai about fighting monsters. I couldn't understand why it got so popular.
From what people are saying here, that impression is wrong. Must have been unlucky to jump in on that episode. I like shows like Mushishi and Kino, so maybe I'll have to try it.
From what people are saying here, that impression is wrong. Must have been unlucky to jump in on that episode. I like shows like Mushishi and Kino, so maybe I'll have to try it.
Kenpachii
Member
Show is not about fighting. It's about life of a girl elf that basically sees everybody die around her because she doesn't age while everybody else does and tries to find meaning in life. The series gets straight into it in the first two episodes.
It relates with a lot of people because a lot of people feel the same that they are lost and feel like they are stuck in a meaningless world with no connections, and it also relates towards older people that feel like life is passing by without meaning.
Anyway i watched the 28 episodes that are currently out and its a interesting show. It's more grounded in reality then most other shows and less about flashy fighting. I liked it, but felt a bit flat from episode 10 to 18 but like how the series doesn't go into endless flash back episodes or endless fillers. It's constantly surprising how fast it goes forwards.
I will be watching more of it.
Last edited:
Bojji
Gold Member
Yep I loved how emotional heavy first two episodes were, loved the show from the start.
I'm 34 so I already feel this passing of time and nostalgia for times when I were ~15 or so, and this will only get worse...
This show really resonates with me.
Mistake
Gold Member
I don't know how old he is, but it's possible that this show isn't for him "at this time." There were a lot of things I tried when I was younger, which I didn't appreciate or even get until I was older, and that's ok.
Paltheos
, how do you feel about the slice of life genre in general? Are there any character driven shows that you enjoy?
Paltheos
Member
Maybe. Sometimes stuff flies right over my head. Years of media consumption have trained me to believe that most people however are more illiterate than I am (or less... experienced). For anime in particular, so often turds are raised high, so I'm inclined to trust my instincts.
Frieren is fine, as far as I see. If it's more than that, then I want to see how when I challenge it. Obviously. And ideally in a way that engages with my own disconnect so I can understand where others are coming from. I don't want to see a response that just calls everything I said nonsense without elaborating or another response that couches that same attitude in nobility. Less politely, don't pull out fortune cookie advice if you're not going to bother even incentivizing me to reconsider. You don't have to be nice about it, but give me something. Or just say that you think I'm wrong and walk away.
I don't know how old he is, but it's possible that this show isn't for him "at this time." There were a lot of things I tried when I was younger, which I didn't appreciate or even get until I was older, and that's ok.
Pure slice of life seldom captures me on its own. I can think of a few productions, both by KyoAni actually, that I've liked. Sound Euphonium and Violet Evergarden both allow much marinating over what's going on, and I definitely like the former more for the band backdrop allowing the production team to slide in all sorts of musical pieces. Violet Evergarden's episodic stories appealed to me more than the 'central plot' ones, especially the flashbacks which reveal the major to be a rather silly character we would have been better off not actually seeing.
I read Type-Moon's Witch on the Holy Night at the start of the year and it's my favorite Type-Moon work now (at least by nasu). Taking the TM-style, typically intensely self-occupied mages and smashing their lives together with someone like Sizuki Soujyuro, whose hard background scarcely even allowed him to develop an identity is an interesting premise that nasu fleshes out well. They come from such different worlds that their sensibilities don't mesh at all, but the scenario demands that they cope, and those slice of life episodes, especially the ones where tension is on a knife's edge, were consistently my favorites.
In the anime space I can hardly think of a more engaging (and misunderstood) character piece in recent years than SNAFU. Watari plops the socially inept leads in romcom scenarios that usually make things worse for them, and Hachiman's journey from a cynical loser who can read people's thoughts into manipulating them without knowing or caring about their underlying feelings into a still socially inept dude (but better human being) who cares about people's feelings is a slow journey that's a fun ride the whole way through. (The 'misunderstood' part refers to how the community misreads allot of the interactions, especially in season 2, as romantic because of the situations the characters are placed in, divorced of the context that they're struggling teenagers attempting to incorporate their burgeoning awareness into their lives and succeeding only in reacting in ways they believe the people around them expect them to react - a point a secondary character even explicitly identifies as codependence.)
But I don't really feel like this is the thrust of your response. I think you're asking me, and honestly, what I like to get a feel for me, but are still under the mistaken assumption that I'm too young. No way. If anything I'm too far the other way. Overexperience and cynicism may be preventing from seeing what younger eyes may catch. I mean, I don't think I'm wrong but I'm largely unconvinced. If you want a resume, I'm more than happy to continue talking about stuff I enjoyed. Just from Madhouse, Perfect Blue is a tour-de-force, Kon's best picture imo - I love the seamless cuts between murders and the drama Mima works in that make the film also feel like it's fracturing. Neo Tokyo is one of the first things I think of when I think about '80s OVA animation at its glorious peak visually and creatively - The Running Man short especially is fantastic; the climax has me questioning what the racer is really pursuing at the end. Chihayafuru is an unadulterated bundle of joy and enthusiasm that brought a smile to my face every week. A mountain of praise is out there already for Hunter x Hunter, and I agree largely, outside of a rocky start.
Mistake
Gold Member
I don't mean to seem rude and too off thread topic, but you should learn some humility. Usually it's something you pickup as you get older, which is why I said that, but my comment seemed to have flown over your head.
I know a thing or two about cynicism, believe me. Diogenes could be in my family tree. But if you keep approaching things in life as you are, you're going to miss some diamonds in the rough you wish you hadn't. Or come off in ways you don't mean to.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write your response. I'll check out a few of the shows you listed and maybe send you a pm on them
Last edited:
Zephyranthes
Member
This is easily the worst way I've heard of to introduce somebody to Frieren. It's like introducing somebody to Star Wars by showing them the scene where Anakin complains about sand.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Sounds depressing. I'll check it out.
Fbh
Gold Member
Yeah, this is one of the first shows I've watched where more than the story or characters it's the whole mood and vibe which makes me enjoy it.
There's a feeling of nostalgia and a certain melancholy, but it's also cheerful and uplifting at times.
I think it's one of those project where everything just came together nicely.
The story with themes about the passage of time, remembering the past and those who are gone but also living in the present and finding meaning
The beautiful art with good animations and really nice backgrounds.
The music which is amazing
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I started choking up / tearing up during the first episode. This show is a bit of a wild emotional ride.
near
Gold Member
Is it really that good or are you quite an emotional person? You guys have got me curious now.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I guess I'm kind of emotional?
I think for the themes this show explores in particular, this will hit harder the older you are. When I was a young lad, I didn't think too much about death, loss, and regret. I didn't realize that the people who were important to me wouldn't always be around. Now that I've lost friends and family along the way, the themes this show explores really hit me like a ton of bricks.
near
Gold Member
I'll watch an episode or two tonight and report back. It sounds like it would resonate with me as well.
Fbh
Gold Member
For me it's not really that what happens in the show is that emotional or incredibly well written.
It's more like the themes, art and music set a sort of nostalgic melancholic mood that often reminds me of this quote from The Office:
It's emotional in that it gets me to think about the themes from the show applied to my own life, more than because of what is happening in the actual plot