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Games should not have puzzles, because puzzles are worthless

J

JackFrost2012

Banned
"Puzzles" in games are always either:

1) too easy, pointless, require no thought to complete, and a waste of the player's time
2) too hard, irritating, require a mind-reading device to complete, and a waste of the player's time

But, you say, some "puzzles" hit that perfect sweet spot in the middle! Point taken: "puzzles" are best when they might as well not be there at all.

Up with well-cued level design and enjoyable gameplay mechanics! Down with pointless and time-wasting "puzzles"!

P.S. If you stole your "puzzle" from 101 Entertaining Brainteasers and it features coin sorting, colored hats, liquid measurements, or islands where people always tell the truth, then double demerits for you...KOTOR.
 
I had to ask my next door neighbour to do the slider puzzle in Resi Evil 4 (when playing as Ashley). :'( I can't do those puzzles! So unnecessary! Boo to puzzles.
 
KOTOR had puzzles?

Oh yeah Hanoi BS.

Prepare for Speevy's retardo qcfx2 ab attack, JackFrost2012. You dared to diss HIGHEST RATED RPG OF PREVIOUS GEN.

------------------------------------------------

On topic: best puzzles = text adventure games & text RPGs.
 
Landstalker had loads of puzzles, riddles, etc. and it was fun to do them all. Outside of some of the SCUMM stuff and a few others, though, I agree...puzzles in games are generally ways to make the gamer spend more time not making any progress...artificially 'enhancing' the game's scope of interaction and pointlessly lengthening it, usually to the point of being ripped out of the experience through sessions of cursing the designers and their mothers.
 
Zelda am cry.

Seriously, unless you just don't like Zelda, do you enjoy the puzzles in those games? I know that most are pretty simple, but IMO it beats just running through a dungeon doing nothing but fighting enemies. Throws a little variety in there.

*obligatory Water Dungeon mention*
 
The problem with puzzles the same one might be

1) too easy, pointless, require no thought to complete, and a waste of the player's time

for one player

2) too hard, irritating, require a mind-reading device to complete, and a waste of the player's time

for someone else
 
Games with evil puzzles :

Lufia 2
DDS (only a couple)
Adventures of LoLo

Games with good puzzles:

Ico
LoZ:LttP



The most frustrating experience I've ever had that revolved around a puzzle was the day I attempted to clear the Water Temple in Zelda:Ocarina of Time without having the Zora Tunic (that allowed underwater breathing). I didn't know about the tunic, or that is was expected you would have it by then. So 4 or 5 hours later I finished the damn dungeon, thinking Miyamoto was the most sadistic being of all time. And then I tell my friend about the experience and he laughs, promptly telling my dumbass that I missed the tunic. Fun times.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
"Puzzles" in games are always either:

1) too easy, pointless, require no thought to complete, and a waste of the player's time
Click to expand...

Two words (and a number): Donkey Kong 64.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
"Puzzles" in games are always either:

1) too easy, pointless, require no thought to complete, and a waste of the player's time
2) too hard, irritating, require a mind-reading device to complete, and a waste of the player's time
Click to expand...

I disagree.
 
Agreed.

And since puzzles can only be "solved" once, they bring down the replayability factor of a game; especially bad for games whose lifeblood are puzzles. What fun is going through a dungeon in Zelda a second time when you know exactly what to do?
 
If anything, action/adventure games should have more puzzles, in my opinion. Nothing better than figuring out a well thought out puzzle integrated into the game world.
 
Most games don't really have "puzzles". Many of those "puzzles" are simple mechanics that can be included into the term "gameplay". And it's fine we have this. I can't stand games like most console RPG dungeons where where you just fucking walk!
We actually need even more gameplay, mechanics and true puzzles in most games.
 
Mudo said:
The most frustrating experience I've ever had that revolved around a puzzle was the day I attempted to clear the Water Temple in Zelda:Ocarina of Time without having the Zora Tunic (that allowed underwater breathing). I didn't know about the tunic, or that is was expected you would have it by then. So 4 or 5 hours later I finished the damn dungeon, thinking Miyamoto was the most sadistic being of all time. And then I tell my friend about the experience and he laughs, promptly telling my dumbass that I missed the tunic. Fun times.
Click to expand...
WHAT THE FUCK

I can't believe that's even possible to do.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Landstalker had loads of puzzles, riddles, etc. and it was fun to do them all. Outside of some of the SCUMM stuff and a few others, though, I agree...puzzles in games are generally ways to make the gamer spend more time not making any progress...artificially 'enhancing' the game's scope of interaction and pointlessly lengthening it, usually to the point of being ripped out of the experience through sessions of cursing the designers and their mothers.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I just don't agree. This may be the most overrated game I've ever encountered.
 
FFIV could use puzzles. Playing the GBA game made me realize the tedium of battles.

BAN BATTLES IN ALL GAME I SAY!
 
sonarrat said:
Sorry, but I just don't agree. This may be the most overrated game I've ever encountered.
Click to expand...
Well, I dunno about it being overrated, because I always thought most did not like it and it never really sold well to begin with, AFAIK. I guess it could be looked at like it's a poor man's Zelda, but then it's not trying to be Zelda, anyway. I had fun with it, anyway.
 
sonarrat said:
Sorry, but I just don't agree. This may be the most overrated game I've ever encountered.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I just don't agree. This may be the most awesome game I've ever encountered.
 
STOP!!

Before anyone can continue posting in this thread, the following question must be answered:

A hero visits an island inhabited by two tribes. Members of one tribe always tell the truth, and members of the other tribe always lie.

The hero comes to a left-right fork in the road. He needs to know which road leads to the castle where the princess is being held.

Standing at this fork in the road is a member of each tribe, but the hero can't tell which tribe each belongs to. What question should he ask to find the road to the castle?

NO MORE POSTING UNTIL THIS "PUZZLE" IS SOLVED!!
 
kill everyone and walk until you find it? That was how I played KoTOR...

I think games need more crates..
 
*enters cheatmode to bypass JF's cockblocker puzzle* :P

The most infuriating puzzle in my gaming history:

Trying to get the fucking Babelfish in Infocom's Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy...

*fumes*

I *still* can't remember how to get past that one.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
STOP!!

Before anyone can continue posting in this thread, the following question must be answered:

A hero visits an island inhabited by two tribes. Members of one tribe always tell the truth, and members of the other tribe always lie.

The hero comes to a left-right fork in the road. He needs to know which road leads to the castle where the princess is being held.

Standing at this fork in the road is a member of each tribe, but the hero can't tell which tribe each belongs to. What question should he ask to find the road to the castle?

NO MORE POSTING UNTIL THIS "PUZZLE" IS SOLVED!!
Click to expand...
Lead me to your village/tribe.

The lier will bring you to the castle, the truth-dude will also
 
JackFrost2012 said:
Because they live in the castle? BZZT.
Click to expand...
The version I knew was about going to the one village or the other. So a better question would be "Where would you tell me to go if you were the other guy?" (you obviously need to take the other way)

Anyway, it was something like that, saw it on Samurai Jack ^^'

/edit:
For example, you need to go right for the castle.
the lier will for example tell you to go left. (he lies what the other dude would say)
The truth teller tells you what the lier would say (go left).

SO YOU GO RIGHT. RIGHT?
 
hahaha...that riddle is ancient.

The answer is obviously to ask one tribesman what the other tribesman would say if you asked him if puzzles in videogames are worthless.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
STOP!!

Before anyone can continue posting in this thread, the following question must be answered:

A hero visits an island inhabited by two tribes. Members of one tribe always tell the truth, and members of the other tribe always lie.

The hero comes to a left-right fork in the road. He needs to know which road leads to the castle where the princess is being held.

Standing at this fork in the road is a member of each tribe, but the hero can't tell which tribe each belongs to. What question should he ask to find the road to the castle?

NO MORE POSTING UNTIL THIS "PUZZLE" IS SOLVED!!
Click to expand...


Ask them what the other member would say is the correct path.

If we assume the correct path is the Right-hand path:
Then member(a) who always lies will say that the other member(b) will say its is the left-hand path...
and member(b) who always tells the truth would say the other member(a) will say the left-hand path.
The correct path will then be the Right-hand path.

Edit: damn beaten by two... although I was doing some work at the time.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
STOP!!

Before anyone can continue posting in this thread, the following question must be answered:

A hero visits an island inhabited by two tribes. Members of one tribe always tell the truth, and members of the other tribe always lie.

The hero comes to a left-right fork in the road. He needs to know which road leads to the castle where the princess is being held.

Standing at this fork in the road is a member of each tribe, but the hero can't tell which tribe each belongs to. What question should he ask to find the road to the castle?

NO MORE POSTING UNTIL THIS "PUZZLE" IS SOLVED!!
Click to expand...

That's easy.

Terry Pratchett said:
"You know," said Ponder, as the coach jolted along a canyon, "this reminds me of that famous logical puzzle."

"What logical puzzle?" said the Archchancellor.

"Well," said Ponder, gratified at the attention, "it appears that there was this man, right, who had to choose between going through two doors, apparently, and the guard on one door always told the truth and the guard on the other door always told a lie, and the thing was, behind one door was certain death, and behind the other door was freedom, and he didn't know which guard was which, and he could only ask them one question and so: what did he ask?"

<…>

"Hang on," said Casanunda, "I think I've worked it out. One question, right?"

"Yes," said Ponder, relieved.

"And he can ask either guard?"

"Yes."

"Oh, right. Well, in that case he goes up to the smallest guard and says, Tell me which is the door to freedom if you don't want to see the color of your kidneys and incidentally I'm walking through it behind you, so if you're trying for the Mr. Clever Award just remember who's going through it first."

"No, no, no!"

"Sounds logical to me," said Ridcully "Very good thinking."

"But you haven't got a weapon!"

"Yes I have. I wrested it from the guard while he was considering the question," said Casanunda.
Click to expand...
 
Xellotah said:
Ask them what the other member would say is the correct path.

If we assume the correct path is the Right-hand path:
Then member(a) who always lies will say that the other member(b) will say its is the left-hand path...
and member(b) who always tells the truth would say the other member(a) will say the left-hand path.
The correct path will then be the Right-hand path.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't the guy who lies will tell you that the other guy is the guy who lies, and that he would tell you to go right?
 
Frog said:
But wouldn't the guy who lies will tell you that the other guy is the guy who lies, and that he would tell you to go right?
Click to expand...

No the questions you ask... is what the other guy would say is the right path...

not what the other guy would say about what the other guy would say is the right path. er... if you see what I mean. :)
 
JackFrost2012 said:
I see that "puzzles" have ruined this thread.

Much like they ruin many games!

Just say "no" to "puzzles."
Click to expand...

On the contrary. This thread started out as a dogmatic assertion about games that was hardly worth debating, and now people are discussing with interest a logic puzzle (and one that some of them clearly haven't come across before). A good (if old) puzzle has reinvigorated the thread.

What would have been bad would have been if you'd made a post with a picture of a fish on it, and we'd had to find a GAFfer with an avatar of a fish hidden behind an old barrel to proceed.

Followed by OH NO!!1 DRINKY THRU TEH WINDOW!!1
 
Xellotah said:
No the questions you ask... is what the other guy would say is the right path...

not what the other guy would say about what the other guy would say is the right path. er... if you see what I mean. :)
Click to expand...

"What path would that guy tell me to follow?"

"He's a liar, he'll tell you to go right."

So he's telling the truth about which way the other guy would say to go, but the statement is still a lie because he's saying the other guy's statement would be a lie. Come on, if this guy's been lying about everything he's said in his whole life you think he'd be good at it. ;)
 
iapetus said:
On the contrary. This thread started out as a dogmatic assertion about games that was hardly worth debating, and now people are discussing with interest a logic puzzle (and one that some of them clearly haven't come across before). A good (if old) puzzle has reinvigorated the thread.
Click to expand...

DOWN THIS SLIPPERY PATH LIES THE TOWERS OF HANOI.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
Because they live in the castle? BZZT.
Click to expand...

Actually, that could work, though it'd take a while...

If asked to lead back to their own village, either one would lead the person to the village with the people that always tell the truth. After arriving there, he could get the correct location of the castle. :)
 
Frog said:
"What path would that guy tell me to follow?"

"He's a liar, he'll tell you to go right."

So he's telling the truth about which way the other guy would say to go, but the statement is still a lie because he's saying the other guy's statement would be a lie. Come on, if this guy's been lying about everything he's said in his whole life you think he'd be good at it. ;)
Click to expand...

No. Because while the first part of that statement is a lie, the second is the truth, and this guy always lies.

I prefer "The tribal elder has instructed us not to answer that question, because it's too easy to work out which is the right road if we do."
 
iapetus said:
No. Because while the first part of that statement is a lie, the second is the truth, and this guy always lies.

I prefer "The tribal elder has instructed us not to answer that question, because it's too easy to work out which is the right road if we do."
Click to expand...

This guy's just a lousy liar.
 
Puzzles contribute to "Mental Fun" in games. Without them, many people won't feel the challenge to play a game, or feel like something is missing.
 
Most puzzles are laughable. I'm hard-pressed to recall a single difficult puzzle in a game that's not an adventure or a puzzle game (DROD is awesome, by the way, and I, for one, will be ordering the third installment). I suppose lufia 2 and Silent Hill games had a few.
 
Jackfrost Speaks the Truth.

If I want a collection of shitty puzzles that the designer pulled out of some old library book to impede my gameplay experience, I'll play "The 7th Guest."
 
i want to slap you in the mouf for saying doa4 is better than vf5 but yeah puzzles are lame, especially in an action game. Its fun in a game like zelda, but it makes no sense in a game like GOW DMC or NG.
 
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