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[The Take Out Bandit]

Hyperbole aside, I'm noticing as I get older that folks of my generation are dying out (i.e. getting married, having kids, and moving away from the hobby - whatever reasons they have) and a new generation is coming in messing things up.

First it was the Nintendo and Sega kids, soon it will be the Playstation generation.

What the hell am I talking about?

The radical extremes in game tastes. Example, people think I'm crazy for not getting into Mario 64. For me, it was just Mario - in 3D.

For the Nintendo generation it was MARIO - IN 3D, DOOD!

Mario was better as the victim of Donkey Kong's abuse if you ask me.

There was similar fragmentation of the Sega fanbase when those halfwits released the Dreamcast. Sega went from unstoppable awesome arcade force, to half assed home console software developer. Now we've got two Sega camps. The one that enjoyed the AWESOME arcade games, and the ones that enjoy utter wankfest shit like Jet Grind Radio.

I grew up around and in arcades (I was raised by a change making machine!). Sure arcades had their big hits, Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Double Dragon, Street Fighter 2; but amongst the fans and media - I don't ever recall there being this mad impetus for every game to be The Next Big Thing™. The next DD clone that came out didn't have to be some genre defining title - it just had to be fun.

Anybody else notice this? Anybody else annoyed by it?

 

[mas9055]

Guess the answer is a resounding NO!

 

[monchi-kun]

we're just getting older....i think one generation complained the same way about this thing called Rock N' Roll

 

[puck1337]

In a way, I agree. There really does seem to be a focus on every game needing to be the best, or it isn't worthwhile. It's stronger than it used to be, though I certainly remember ragging on Bubsy and Fatal Fury because they weren't as good as the competition.

Then again, it may just be that we are subjected to the worst of the worst gaming snob bickering. People are out there having fun with Bloody Roar and Tak and all of those other average games that we don't generally give a fuck about. And they can do that because they walk down to the store and rent or buy whatever looks fun, where as the amount of media and forum commentary that we consume makes us pretty biased against almost everything from the first screenshot and impressions.

Granted, that commentary does allow us to discover some great games on the periphery of the mainstream, but I still think that it sucks the joy out of gaming for some people.

 

[MattKeil]

utter wankfest shit like Jet Grind Radio

Opinion disqualified.

If you don't like Jet Set Radio, I hate you.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I can understand it from a developer's point of view (because of development costs), and certainly the gaming media perpetuates this mentality; but as a consumer?

Put games in front of me, and if I like them I'll play them.

If you don't like Jet Set Radio, I hate you.

AM2 smashes your puny sorry ass, can't even give it away racist charicature laden turd of a "game".

VIVA LA VF! ARCADE SNOBBERY +1

 

[VariableTerry]

wankfest sounds like a good thing to me.

 

[kaching]

TTOB, the problem might be as simple as the possibility that you're getting a skewed perspective from Internet forums like GAF that serve to focus the thoughts of a relative few. There's tens of millions owning and buying consoles out there, most of whom aren't pouring their thoughts into Internet message boards. I doubt they care much for The Next Big Thing as much as they're just looking for a fun game to play.

 

[Companion Cube]

AM2 smashes your puny sorry ass, can't even give it away racist charicature laden turd of a "game".

VIVA LA VF! ARCADE SNOBBERY +1

This is only acceptable when used towards pro-Tekken posts; not another Sega game, and especially not JSR. Shame on you, sir. Shame.

VIVA LA VF! ARCADE SNOBBERY -2

 

[Flo_Evans]

Now we've got two Sega camps. The one that enjoyed the AWESOME arcade games, and the ones that enjoy utter wankfest shit like Jet Grind Radio.

Jet grind radio was a trendy shallow excuse for a game, but it had a killer soundtrack. AM2 IMHO is the only reason SEGA needs to exist.

But mario64? Damn you are right agian. If there is one genre that really needs to die, it is shitty jump from platform to floating in fucking mid-air and make sure you pick up all the coins, dice, teabaggs, ect.. fucking 3d platformers.

 

[Amir0x]

Jet grind radio was a trendy shallow excuse for a game, but it had a killer soundtrack. AM2 IMHO is the only reason SEGA needs to exist.

But mario64? Damn you are right agian. If there is one genre that really needs to die, it is shitty jump from platform to floating in fucking mid-air and make sure you pick up all the coins, dice, teabaggs, ect.. fucking 3d platformers.

Psychonauts says: "Fuck you, I'm awesome."

 

[Folder]

I don't ever recall there being this mad impetus for every game to be The Next Big Thing™. The next DD clone that came out didn't have to be some genre defining title - it just had to be fun.

Dude, that's so wrong.
It was all about finding the next big thing, especially within genres. Do you not remember Golden Axe being the Double Dragon killer etc.
They were always, always looking to redifine genres. Always.

 

[Dragmire]

I hate sweeping generalizations. Is there some anecdote you want to tell us or did you just come back from research of the modern gamer? You could derive some data from looking at sales, but then you'd conclude that movie-licensed games and Madden are where gaming is at (while forums would probably tell you the opposite).

And please don't use age to justify 'the radical extremes in game tastes' as if it's a new thing. If you're into 'arcade' gaming, then I have to ask you if there's some serious nostalgia at work in your game taste.

Here's another generalization you might be familiar with, which I hope doesn't hold much truth: the older people get, the more they get set in their ways.

 

[Flynn]

I agree with your base impulse that 3D is not the end all be all of gaming.

Otherwise, you're just guilty of crabbery and old-doggedyness.

The arcade days were pretty great. There was also tons of shit back then too.

2D console gaming was pretty awesome. Again, lots of shit to wade through.

There have been some mind-fucking-blowing 3D games, from Mario 64 through Katamari Damacy to Resident Evil 4. And, of course, there are plenty of shitty 3D games and will be many, many more to come (many of which I expect to play on the PSP).

Really, were just talking about another application of Sturgeon's Law, "90% percent of everything is crud."

 

[etiolate]

the shantae generation is a small world

 

[Catchpenny]

Wait, you're saying there was no arcade snobbery back in the day? Ahahahahaha.

Anyhow, this should have been titled Gaming deathcamps, the final solution?

 

[callous]

TTOB, looks like I'm from the same generation as you and I've also been brought up on arcades, starting with Space Invaders, but I can't say I have any clue as to what you're talking about. I don't understand what your point is. That games aren't as good as in the old days? That people expect too much from games these days? What?

I like good games from all generations.

 

[TheDiave]

Hyperbole aside, I'm noticing as I get older that folks of my generation are dying out (i.e. getting married, having kids, and moving away from the hobby - whatever reasons they have) and a new generation is coming in messing things up.

First it was the Nintendo and Sega kids, soon it will be the Playstation generation.

What the hell am I talking about?

The radical extremes in game tastes. Example, people think I'm crazy for not getting into Mario 64. For me, it was just Mario - in 3D.

For the Nintendo generation it was MARIO - IN 3D, DOOD!

Mario was better as the victim of Donkey Kong's abuse if you ask me.

There was similar fragmentation of the Sega fanbase when those halfwits released the Dreamcast. Sega went from unstoppable awesome arcade force, to half assed home console software developer. Now we've got two Sega camps. The one that enjoyed the AWESOME arcade games, and the ones that enjoy utter wankfest shit like Jet Grind Radio.

I grew up around and in arcades (I was raised by a change making machine!). Sure arcades had their big hits, Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Double Dragon, Street Fighter 2; but amongst the fans and media - I don't ever recall there being this mad impetus for every game to be The Next Big Thing™. The next DD clone that came out didn't have to be some genre defining title - it just had to be fun.

Anybody else notice this? Anybody else annoyed by it?

Yeah... Hence why I always say nuevo gamers suck.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I don't understand what your point is. That games aren't as good as in the old days? That people expect too much from games these days? What?

Possibly this - Gamers today aren't as good as they used to be?

TTOB, the problem might be as simple as the possibility that you're getting a skewed perspective from Internet forums like GAF that serve to focus the thoughts of a relative few.

Actually this little tirade was sparked by my escapades in non-gaming forums where game tastes run along these lines:

- Halo / GTA
- Shit licensed games, Star Wars, The Warriors, etc.

When you mention something like say, Urban Reign or Blood Will Tell people thumb their nose at it. Going so far as to say something like - "Urban Reign looks like a GTA clone!" Dude, ZOMGWTF?!

This is casual gamery in the worst.

Gaming Age is a whole different animal, and ignoring the diametrically opposed extremes in tastes/opinions, at the very least there is a quantifiable level of quality present here.

Wait, you're saying there was no arcade snobbery back in the day? Ahahahahaha.

Not really, there were definitely arcade games I wouldn't play - but the general reaction to the local arcade getting a new game was - "Cool! I can't wait to play it!" Not, "Meh - it sounds like another Double Dragon clone."

This is only acceptable when used towards pro-Tekken posts; not another Sega game, and especially not JSR. Shame on you, sir.

Screw that! Sega gaming has had it's pure blood tainted by the Dreamcast ilk. I invoke GENESICIDE!

We need a Gameryan Uprising!

* me gets a game related tattoo on his chest. . .

"DO YOU SEE THIS?! DO YOU SEE THIS?! THIS MEANS NOT WELCOME!" :lol

 

[TheDiave]

Possibly this - Gamers today aren't as good as they used to be?

More like they aren't as bright as they used to be. It's sort of like when a species inbreeds too much, the species suffers; Develops new diseases, may not be as intelligent, etc.

Back in the Sega/Nintendo days, you never had anything like the dickheads today who think Halo is coming out for PlayStation 2, that the Xbox can play other system's games or my favorite, Microsoft is going to buy Nintendo and Revolution is actually a codename for the venture.

We played games. We didn't spend our time making shit up and acting like a bunch of know-it-alls.

GGRRRRRR... NUEVO GAMERS SUCK!

I say we let the deathcamps ensue.

 

[Porridge]

More like they aren't as bright as they used to be. It's sort of like when a species inbreeds too much, the species suffers; Develops new diseases, may not be as intelligent, etc.

Back in the Sega/Nintendo days, you never had anything like the dickheads today who think Halo is coming out for PlayStation 2, that the Xbox can play other system's games or my favorite, Microsoft is going to buy Nintendo and Revolution is actually a codename for the venture.

We played games. We didn't spend our time making shit up and acting like a bunch of know-it-alls.

GGRRRRRR... NUEVO GAMERS SUCK!

I say we let the deathcamps ensue.

No, you're wrong because there have been dickheads all through out time, especially during the 16 bit era.

Remember? "NUDEALITIES"?

 

[Drinky Crow]

I blame the rise of the internet and message boards.

Seriously, though, you have a point: when we saw a new shooter, it was all AWESOME FUCK YEAH not LOL ITS NOT R-TYPE LOL. I think that attitude comes from the system wars bullshit, though. In the One Console Future (PS3) we can all enjoy games again without judging them based on a genre's purported best (usually a system exclusive).

A ONE CONSOLE FUTURE. It's a dream worth believing in (tm).

 

[VALIS]

More like they aren't as bright as they used to be. It's sort of like when a species inbreeds too much, the species suffers; Develops new diseases, may not be as intelligent, etc.

Back in the Sega/Nintendo days, you never had anything like the dickheads today who think Halo is coming out for PlayStation 2, that the Xbox can play other system's games or my favorite, Microsoft is going to buy Nintendo and Revolution is actually a codename for the venture.

We played games. We didn't spend our time making shit up and acting like a bunch of know-it-alls.

GGRRRRRR... NUEVO GAMERS SUCK!

I say we let the deathcamps ensue.

How many personalities do you have, anyway? Your opinions here (which I agree with) completely contradict the way you act in Xbox threads. Based on your semi-frequent one sentence trolling in Xbox topics I honestly thought you were some 14-year old brat who's pissed off that his parents only bought him a Gamecube and is now taking it out on the rest of the world (ie. someone who got lost on the way to GameFAQs one day).

I agree with what Drinky said, too. We used to look forward to new games, ANY new games. It's only after you found out the game sucked would people rag on it. It's like the attitude of the gamer has changed from "I want great games to play" to "I want great games to play on the console/handheld I support, while hoping the other consoles/handhelds get shit." It's such a fucked up and naive way to go about things. All three of these corporations would gladly cut your dick off and sell it back to you if they were legally allowed. It makes someone look awfully stupid to root for any of them other than in the sense of what's best for YOU, which is good games and good prices.

 

[Mr Nash]

What irks me is that a lot of gamers nowadays are seem more concerned with what's coming next, and not enjoying what is out now. A fair sized segment of younger gamers treat their hobby as a buffet table, taking nibles out of everything, and tossing it away because their curious about what's on the large plate further down the table.

 

[Shinobi]

This thread is horseshit...hardc0res act the same way, throwing bile at a game in a genre they don't like, or from a company they hated, instead of waiting for the finished product before judging. At least casuals worry about the games themselves instead of what other people are thinking.

Fuck hardcore gamers. To death.

 

[Inumaru]

"Now as I was saying, drugs are bad. You shouldn't do drugs. If you do them, you're bad, because drugs are bad, mkay? It's a bad thing to do drugs, so don't be bad by doing drugs, mkay? That'd be bad, because drugs are bad, mkay?"

No more crystal meth for you, Mr. Bandit.

 

[MoxManiac]

Tekken sucks.

 

[TheDiave]

How many personalities do you have, anyway? Your opinions here (which I agree with) completely contradict the way you act in Xbox threads. Based on your semi-frequent one sentence trolling in Xbox topics I honestly thought you were some 14-year old brat who's pissed off that his parents only bought him a Gamecube and is now taking it out on the rest of the world (ie. someone who got lost on the way to GameFAQs one day).

14? Nah... Add 11 years.

I have all three current systems (PS2, GC and XB). In reference to my "one sentence trolling," were an Xbox not given to me as a gift, I'd never have bought one. It's my least-played system, far and away. I only have maybe five games for it, and none are games the "hardcore" Xbox fans own (No Halo, Halo 2, KOTOR, etc.). PS2 follows second. My beloved 'Cube is the system I spend the most time gaming on.

If you want to go into the handheld arena, I also thoroughly enjoy my DS and my GBA SP. I got a chance to see a PSP for myself tonight, and came away considerably underwhelmed. I didn't find myself jones'ing to buy one.

In fact, seeing it in person helped cement my decision not to adopt it.

But then again, I'm probably asking for it by making that statement.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

At least casuals worry about the games themselves instead of what other people are thinking.

Well, you see - there's casual gamers, then there's the sort of casual gamers who want to be hardcore; but don't have the fucking brain capacity or Nerd Gene that enables them to do so.

I worked with some really fine casual gamers and had lovely game discussions with them. These are the folks that at most, bought about five games a year.

I would talk with this one fellow about two games I never played; Vice City and Madden. And in both cases, he didn't make my fucking skin crawl. And I totally hate football. It was a bit like the old arcade days when we talked and he would just go on about the cool stuff he did in this level on GTA, or about how he was raping the CPU in franchise mode in Madden.

It's the casual gamers who attempt to be hardcore by going hook line and sinker for whatever EGM is fucking fluffing to be the next big cumshot on the face of gaming. Look, if you want to be hardcore - fucking hit up eBay and snag an import Saturn and I'll provide you with a list of titles that will grant you your hardcore gamer ghetto pass by association. Don't fucking fake the funk by using GTA and Halo as your standard for everything.

In the One Console Future (PS3) we can all enjoy games again without judging them based on a genre's purported best (usually a system exclusive).

Yes, the sweet taste of irony is not lost on me from the lone voices of dissent against the SINGLE CONSOLE VISION being persons posting from a monopolized market, and not really giving a damn that they have no choice in that market. Like Windows or not, it's a standard. A shitty one, but that's not my point.

Those voices of dissent will be as "loud" as the voices of Mac gamers when the gaming revolution comes (Don't construe that as a Nintendo hidden agenda, you fuckers!). We'll all be enjoying EVERY GAME, and reply with a resounding - SHUT THE FUCK UP!

HOIST THE FLAG!

* flees from the Polish nationals he just pissed off. . .

I'm chasing myself. . . :lol VIVA LA POLAND!

 

[kaching]

Actually this little tirade was sparked by my escapades in non-gaming forums...

If you'll take closer notice of what I said, I didn't make a distinction between gaming and non-gaming forums, I simply indicated Internet forums in general, because either way the common theme is that you're dealing with a subset of people who care enough to express an opinion, meaning they're likely to have stronger opinions along the lines that you're indicating than the vast majority who don't post on forums at all.

...where game tastes run along these lines:

- Halo / GTA
- Shit licensed games, Star Wars, The Warriors, etc.

When you mention something like say, Urban Reign or Blood Will Tell people thumb their nose at it. Going so far as to say something like - "Urban Reign looks like a GTA clone!" Dude, ZOMGWTF?!

This is casual gamery in the worst.

I'm not sure what expressing a preference for familiar franchises has to do with the direction your initial rant was going in regarding a "mad impetus for every game to be The Next Big Thing".

 

[aoi tsuki]

This is your worst column yet, Dvorak.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I'm not sure what expressing a preference for familiar franchises has to do with the direction your initial rant was going in regarding a "mad impetus for every game to be The Next Big Thing".

It has to do with an overall appreciation of games in general, as Drinky pointed out.

Not only does a game have to be similar to, say, GTA - but it has to at least be GTA, or better. The problem here is even with an ambitious game that isn't perfect, folks will fail to appreciate even the neat additions the developer has added.

For example I used to be a huge Street Fighter fan, which segued into fighting game fan. Of course Street Fighter 2 was my high water mark for quality, and I would inevitably compare all other 2D fighters to it; but that didn't stop me from simply enjoying stuff like Asuka 120% Burning Fest., Astra Superstars, World Heroes, Rabbit, and other wacky - but not as good fighters.

Today, even with better software pricing than in the past - folks appear to be reluctant to enjoy a game for what it is. And I'd argue that the game magazines have more influence over these as a casual consumer can pick up a Gamepro, PSM, or Xbox magazine at nearly any store and read it on the crapper should the cover feature catch their eye.

I think the game media isn't being as responsible as they should be when it comes to influencing the industry. Gaming journalists for all of their pretense of being "writers" are only really interested in boot licking for contacts, and an out of the ghetto of game journalism and hopefully a respectable job in the game industry - like Janitor for Capcom USA.

This relates directly back to the casual gamer who will totally ignore a game that rates below a certain score, and never look back. Too many quality games are falling through the cracks while a few hog the limelight, which is no doubt a direct result of the increased popularity of video gaming and the ridiculous advertising budgets of game publishers.

Cheapass gaming has become a lifestyle recently, but even that only applies to a particular subset of gamer. I'm a cheap bitch as a result of finances, but also because I've got such broad gaming tastes that it's not financially feasible to acquire everything I want at full retail. So I keep a list of games, and pick them up as the prices drop.

Let me know if the discussion reaches the point of diminishing returns and I'll stop. Trying to keep this relevant, but I don't want to get redundant in the process.

 

[Drinky Crow]

I'd rather discuss these deathcamps. What's the most ironic way to exterminate a Nintendo fanboy -- having them crushed in a giant dual-screen clamshell, or having them speared with an enormous stylus and rubbed all over sandpaper?

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I propose modified Virtual Boy gas masks that pump zyclon gas directly to the victi^H^H^Hgamers respiratory system.

"Inhaling is good.™"

 

[capslock]

I'd rather discuss these deathcamps. What's the most ironic way to exterminate a Nintendo fanboy -- having them crushed in a giant dual-screen clamshell, or having them speared with an enormous stylus and rubbed all over sandpaper?

Or taping a Virtual Boy to their face till they suffocate.

 

[Attack You]

Or taping a Virtual Boy to their face till they suffocate.

If it doesn't break their necks first.

I propose locking them in a room with a spiked ceiling that activates when they can no longer stave off the desire to press a gigantic green 'A' button.

 

[VALIS]

Donkey Konga bongos rigged with C4.

 

[WordAssassin]

Back in the Sega/Nintendo days, you never had anything like the dickheads today who think Halo is coming out for PlayStation 2, that the Xbox can play other system's games or my favorite...

Oh? So that system my friend has with every ColecoVision, NES, SNES, NeoGeo, and Genesis game on it...that's not an Xbox? It was just a rumor? Shit, I'd better start erasing those memories of Squish'Em'Sam from last year!

 

[Azih]

Severe overdose of nostalgia affecting this thread.

First off dumbass gamers are not a recent phenomenon and has been that way forever, I remember some kid telling me how the SNES was actually an 18-bit machine and that was why it was slower (it had to process more bits) than the Genesis. Only difference is that when you're a kid you have way more tolerance for stupid as frankly in most cases you don't know whether something some other kid has said is bullshit or not.

Secondly the feeling that gamers are focused more on hype and ratings than a game being fun has nothing to do with generations, it has to do with you hanging out at GAF and other online hardcore fan communities now and not doing so back then. Simple as that.

And a one console future wouldn't stop anything, have you seen the insane amount of blather/screeching that goes on in EA vs VC and Tekken vs VF threads? These are games on the same ferking platform. It'd be lessened sure, but only because there's one less product competing for your money/interest. To stop these kinds of stupid conversations you need to be proletysing a 'ONE GAME FUTURE'

Anything that has fans has fanboys. Fanboys kill your enthusiasm like crazy if you either a) take them seriously or b) they become a pet peeve of yours.

 

[The Guivre]

Dude... Check it out, I've just become so hardcore that the rest of my body has been sucked into the growing singularity that is my hardcore gamer-ness. w00t!

Allrighty then. Are the arcades dead? Ehh... they've seen better days (cheaper ones too). The PC and consoles are where gaming is concentrated, that's just how it is. Yes, the arcades were cool, yes I'm glad you and the other older gamers were their to nurse the industry in its infancy by pumping quarter after quarter into Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man and Pong. I suppose you'd now like a plack to bejeweled in your honor.

"To the truly hardcore... Damn! You are hardcore"

The Dreamcast sucked.. Newbs suck.. everyone but me and this other guy that agrees with me suck.

I think the solution is to accept the fact that games are now open to that whiny, swearing and abysmally stupid 12 year-old kid that you have to listen to in your headset while you're trying to beat a guy to death with a skull that for some reason is important. With as much money as it costs now to make new games, the old population of the previous "generations" could never support it. The result is that games are now made to appeal to a mass market, and they are advertised accordingly. So yes there's hype, yes there are crappy games, but there are plenty of very good ones too. And there are plenty of damn good and very comitted gamers out there who weren't around for the beginning.

So it's fun to complain about the casuals.. the newbs and the wanna-be's but they're the ones who make the game industry profitable, not the small percentage of us that sit here and complain about them. So sure, start up them deathcamps, when it's all over I guess only the hardcore will be left to play Pac-Man and Donkey Kong, since everything else is just not hardcore enough.

 

[Shinobi]

It has to do with an overall appreciation of games in general, as Drinky pointed out.

Not only does a game have to be similar to, say, GTA - but it has to at least be GTA, or better. The problem here is even with an ambitious game that isn't perfect, folks will fail to appreciate even the neat additions the developer has added.

For example I used to be a huge Street Fighter fan, which segued into fighting game fan. Of course Street Fighter 2 was my high water mark for quality, and I would inevitably compare all other 2D fighters to it; but that didn't stop me from simply enjoying stuff like Asuka 120% Burning Fest., Astra Superstars, World Heroes, Rabbit, and other wacky - but not as good fighters.

Today, even with better software pricing than in the past - folks appear to be reluctant to enjoy a game for what it is. And I'd argue that the game magazines have more influence over these as a casual consumer can pick up a Gamepro, PSM, or Xbox magazine at nearly any store and read it on the crapper should the cover feature catch their eye.

I think the game media isn't being as responsible as they should be when it comes to influencing the industry. Gaming journalists for all of their pretense of being "writers" are only really interested in boot licking for contacts, and an out of the ghetto of game journalism and hopefully a respectable job in the game industry - like Janitor for Capcom USA.

This relates directly back to the casual gamer who will totally ignore a game that rates below a certain score, and never look back. Too many quality games are falling through the cracks while a few hog the limelight, which is no doubt a direct result of the increased popularity of video gaming and the ridiculous advertising budgets of game publishers.

Cheapass gaming has become a lifestyle recently, but even that only applies to a particular subset of gamer. I'm a cheap bitch as a result of finances, but also because I've got such broad gaming tastes that it's not financially feasible to acquire everything I want at full retail. So I keep a list of games, and pick them up as the prices drop.

Let me know if the discussion reaches the point of diminishing returns and I'll stop. Trying to keep this relevant, but I don't want to get redundant in the process.

Now this post actually makes sense! Should've started the thread off with this instead of the gobley gook you wound up posting. :lol

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

So sure, start up them deathcamps, when it's all over I guess only the hardcore will be left to play Pac-Man and Donkey Kong, since everything else is just not hardcore enough.

eBay banning sale of zyclon cannisters has put a monkey wrench in that plan. :lol

I'd also like to suggest another form of torture.

Death by Stylus.

Perhaps an iron maiden like device with stylus's at eye, groin, and chest level?

Now this post actually makes sense! Should've started the thread off with this instead of the gobley gook you wound up posting.

The brain doesn't fire on all cylinders 100% of the time. Too much booze, or too f'ing old. I can't remember.