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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

The Google Play Store may be bigger than previously thought. According to a new report from the Financial Times, the Epic v Google has unearthed EBIT data for Google's immensely popular Play Store business. FT correspondent Michael Acton attended the trial and notes one of the most surprising numbers we've seen so far: "Epic has alleged Google's operating profit on the Play Store exceeded $12bn in 2021, at a margin of more than 70 per cent," the passage reads.

To put this number into perspective, a 70% margin that delivered 12 billion operating profit would equate to roughly $17.14 billion in revenues. This is a lot higher than the figure that Microsoft provided to investors as part of its Activision Blizzard King acquisition news cycle; in that report, Microsoft says that Google made about $12.4 billion in revenue from mobile games on the Play Store, not profit.

While that may be the case, it's worth noting that Epic Games' reference could be referring to the entirety of the Play Store's operating profit, not just gaming (the Play Store sells all kinds of different types of digital content, from books to films and TV shows).

Either way, we've put together a quick reference sheet to highlight some operating profit numbers from the top gaming companies. This information isn't always available for all companies--extracting Tencent's gaming operating income, for example, is not easy nor straightforward--and we have to reiterate that the Play Store's reported $12 billion operating income number may not be entirely related to video games.

Google Play Store operates at 70% profit margin, Epic v Google court case reveals

Google's mobile-based Play Store allegedly made $12 billion operating profit (EBIT) throughout 2021, which seemingly contradicts Microsoft's numbers.

www.tweaktown.com

 

[Kataploom]

I'll never understand why is it a bad thing... Oh no, company earns too much money, fuck the rich?

 

[Fabieter]

Whats the point? Google knows how to manage their employees and resources and therefore they have high margins? If its easy why is epic store still not profitable?

 

[Ozriel]

Whats the point? Google knows how to manage their employees and resources and therefore they have high margins? If its easy why is epic store still not profitable?

This is specifically about the de facto, most dominant mobile App Store on Android. Where’s the logic in your comparing it to Epic store on PC?

The argument is less around managing employees and resources, and more around Epic arguing that Google’s making a ton of money for relatively low effort, thanks to what Epic says is a Google monopoly, including mandating cuts on iAPs and mandating the use of Google’s payment processors on the Play store

 

[Silentium]

This is specifically about the de facto, most dominant mobile App Store on Android. Where’s the logic in your comparing it to Epic store on PC?

The argument is less around managing employees and resources, and more around Epic arguing that Google’s making a ton of money for relatively low effort, thanks to what Epic says is a Google monopoly, including mandating cuts on iAPs and mandating the use of Google’s payment processors on the Play store

Epic is free to fork Android and go build their own ecosystem.

 

[brian0057]

I'll never understand why is it a bad thing... Oh no, company earns too much money, fuck the rich?

Envy. Pure and simple. A tale as old as humanity itself.
The thought process goes something like this: "Well, they make so much money anyway. A few million dollars shaven off here and there wouldn't affect them."
Why do you think Communism and Socialism are so popular with today's youth? They honestly believe that economics is a zero-sum game. It isn't.

 

[LordCBH]

What exactly is epic suing Google over? Google allows sideloading and third party stores. Are epic just salty that no one wants the shitty epic store?

 

[Fake]

I'll never understand why is it a bad thing... Oh no, company earns too much money, fuck the rich?

Can emply monopoly tatics...

And why we need people licking boots here?

 

[STARSBarry]

I'll never understand why is it a bad thing... Oh no, company earns too much money, fuck the rich?

Envy. Pure and simple. A tale as old as humanity itself.
The thought process goes something like this: "Well, they make so much money anyway. A few million dollars shaven off here and there wouldn't affect them."
Why do you think Communism and Socialism are so popular with today's youth? They honestly believe that economics is a zero-sum game. It isn't.

As with most things, it's more complicated than that, it's what said company then does with the money, who's economy does it go back into? and how does it benefit society? Its a balance, its why your not supposed to have monopoly because its been proven time and time again to be a huge detriment to everyone else and the society it is attached too.

The issue is we have been running so long we are entering the stage that "infinite growth" starts to show its problems. Its not a sustainable model, but unfortunately people would rather drive full speed ahead until the whole thing derails rather than slow down.

This is getting a little too political so you need to take it elsewhere, but essentially saying something along the lines of "there needs to be more controls to make sure society actually benefits" does not immediately fly into the "better dead than red" comments you get as a response. It's always more complicated than that. These walled gardens are creating issues because of how they essentially create monopoly's within specific formats.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Seems like Google has effectively created a pseudo monopoly that is mostly there to leech.

Maybe in game purchases on such a platform shouldn’t have to go through Google’s api.

 

[jorgejjvr]

I love rich people

 

[SportsFan581]

Can't you already sideload entire storefronts on Android? Should stores not take a cut?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Because they don't do shit

 

[Alexios]

I mean, much of that profit is probably generated by the gacha games making gazillions off the platform, what's the argument, to make services free for everyone or only charge those raking in the money? Still, that doesn't involve their R&D to build the platform from the ground up either.

But the alternative Epic pretends to propose has proven to be a failure anyway as they've yet to see a cent in returns with all they're doing out of spite just because they wanna force established stores to take them in for free and not because they had a great idea or plan for a different one.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

They provide some great services.

I pay for Drive and YouTube Premium.

Stay out of the politics.

 

[Bernoulli]

Seems like Google has effectively created a pseudo monopoly that is mostly there to leech.

Maybe in game purchases on such a platform shouldn’t have to go through Google’s api.

That's what epic did and they got removed from google and apple
They want the money even if doesn't go through google api

 

[Alexios]

That's what epic did and they got removed from google and apple
They want the money even if doesn't go through google api

Rather they don't allow not going through the google api for apps sold on the play store, Epic did it despite the agreement they signed and thus was removed. Epic is free to sell on its own store as on PC, just gonna have to market it and get people to install it in ways other than the play store is all.

Sure, Play Store is dominant with being built in most Android phones (unlike Steam on PC that Timmy still attacks just the same), but they did the work to get there, nobody has really tried a large scale marketing campaign and effort for an alternative store and I guess Tim doesn't wanna try it either.

And now they pretend they're doing this fight for the people (devs or users) when the only goal is their own benefit (and they have admitted this multiple times that if they got an exclusive deal on these storefronts to not give them their share they would have taken it and never complained again)...

 

[Bonfires Down]

Tim Sweeney sure seems to pick and choose when he thinks unregulated capitalism is appropriate vs when he demands regulators step in to help him.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

As with most things, it's more complicated than that, it's what said company then does with the money, who's economy does it go back into? and how does it benefit society? Its a balance, its why your not supposed to have monopoly because its been proven time and time again to be a huge detriment to everyone else and the society it is attached too.

The issue is we have been running so long we are entering the stage that "infinite growth" starts to show its problems. Its not a sustainable model, but unfortunately people would rather drive full speed ahead until the whole thing derails rather than slow down.

This is getting a little too political so you need to take it elsewhere, but essentially saying something along the lines of "there needs to be more controls to make sure society actually benefits" does not immediately fly into the "better dead than red" comments you get as a response. It's always more complicated than that. These walled gardens are creating issues because of how they essentially create monopoly's within specific formats.

What does that have to do with this lawsuit? Epic wants Google to make it easier to sell all their Fortnite shit on Android without giving Google a cut of the proceeds. I don’t know what this has to do with “infinite growth” or benefits to society or whatever. Seems like regardless of the outcome, both companies are raking in cash by monetizing the whales. I don’t really care that much how they divvy up the money.

 

[IFireflyl]

What does that have to do with this lawsuit? Epic wants Google to make it easier to sell all their Fortnite shit on Android without giving Google a cut of the proceeds. I don’t know what this has to do with “infinite growth” or benefits to society or whatever. Seems like regardless of the outcome, both companies are raking in cash by monetizing the whales. I don’t really care that much how they divvy up the money.

Exactly this. Epic agreed to rules, got big, then decided to violate their agreement because they feel like the rules are unfair. But without iOS and Android, Fortnite was failing. So they want to piggyback off of a successful platform, and then screw them over because of greed.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Tim Sweeney sure seems to pick and choose when he thinks unregulated capitalism is appropriate vs when he demands regulators step in to help him.

The goon's a complete joke. One of the biggest hypocrites in the industry. People complain about Steam's dominance when Gabe has shown to be a benevolent dictator, but they prop Sweeney up as some paragon of "competition" while this is the kind of shit he constantly pulls.

 

[Ozriel]

can you people please do some reading and stop trying to conflate Epic vs Steam with Epic vs Google?

Two different situations entirely, and it’s weird seeing people who haven’t taken even the most cursory look at this case jump in here to comment solely based off the EGS situation on PC.

Not taking any sides myself. Watching the case to see how this blows over…the most interesting things for me are the behind the scenes information we get.

 

[Bernoulli]

Rather they don't allow not going through the google api for apps sold on the play store, Epic did it despite the agreement they signed and thus was removed. Epic is free to sell on its own store as on PC, just gonna have to market it and get people to install it in ways other than the play store is all.

Sure, Play Store is dominant with being built in most Android phones (unlike Steam on PC that Timmy still attacks just the same), but they did the work to get there, nobody has really tried a large scale marketing campaign and effort for an alternative store and I guess Tim doesn't wanna try it either.

And now they pretend they're doing this fight for the people (devs or users) when the only goal is their own benefit (and they have admitted this multiple times that if they got an exclusive deal on these storefronts to not give them their share they would have taken it and never complained again)...

That's why EU now saved us by forcing Apple to open up
I don't care about the work they did to get there, when i buy a phone a i want to be able to install anything on it and not be limited to one store
Juste like on PC and Mac you can sideload and the Microsoft/apple don't get any revenue from it

 

[IFireflyl]

can you people please do some reading and stop trying to conflate Epic vs Steam with Epic vs Google?

Two different situations entirely, and it’s weird seeing people who haven’t taken even the most cursory look at this case jump in here to comment solely based off the EGS situation on PC.

Not taking any sides myself. Watching the case to see how this blows over…the most interesting things for me are the behind the scenes information we get.

It doesn't matter if people confuse these or not. Either way Epic is a colossal joke, and they should be put down.

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Epic is free to fork Android and go build their own ecosystem.

This is always the same idiotic argument by people who have no clue!

The reason why all those big ecosystems of today - Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft etc - could exist, is because regulators broke up AT&Ts monoply in the 80s!
So using your logic one could have said: Why break up AT&T - GAFAM is free to build their own telecom service and infrastructure!

None of those ecosystems would have happend if AT&T as gatekeeper would have been able to contine farming off profits of competitors!
And now the newcomers of yesteryear have bcome gatekeepers themselves and hinder competiton and innovation!
https://www.promarket.org/2023/02/2...aking-up-big-tech-we-should-look-back-to-att/

 

[Alexios]

That's why EU now saved us by forcing Apple to open up

I wasn't commenting on Apple, I was commenting on Android as you also were talking about Android speaking about the google API and saying things wrong, your reply to me is no reply to anything I said or relevant to it, also the EU might use all available sources but they do things Tim or no Tim.

And yes, it's good Apple now will be to the standard of Android and allow any store (and apps outside any store) to also be installed, but that wasn't Tim's fight, since that's how Android is and Tim's still gunning for it anyway.

 

[Ozriel]

It doesn't matter if people confuse these or not. Either way Epic is a colossal joke, and they should be put down.

“It doesn’t matter if people stay on topic or not, and the lawsuit should be struck out because I consider Epic a colossal joke”


FFS, let the courts decide.

 

[Bernoulli]

can you people please do some reading and stop trying to conflate Epic vs Steam with Epic vs Google?

Two different situations entirely, and it’s weird seeing people who haven’t taken even the most cursory look at this case jump in here to comment solely based off the EGS situation on PC.

Not taking any sides myself. Watching the case to see how this blows over…the most interesting things for me are the behind the scenes information we get.

They always bring steam for no reason

This is about the apps on billions of devices that we use everyday locked behind a store

 

[IFireflyl]

“It doesn’t matter if people stay on topic or not, and the lawsuit should be struck out because I consider Epic a colossal joke”

That's not what I said you pedantic prat. What I said is that the conflation doesn't negate the issue that Epic is retarded. Quit throwing a bitch-fit and backseat moderating. Use the report button instead of whining so much.

 

[Ozriel]

Epic is free to fork Android and go build their own ecosystem.

This certainly wasn’t the solution Google pushed for when they successfully convinced regulators to force Microsoft into a browser ballot, de-emphasizing IE defaults.

 

[Alexios]

Epic is free to fork Android and go build their own ecosystem.

They don't need to do something as crazy as forking Android or making their own phone OS, they can have their store installed on any Android just like on PC, they just have to market it to people and deliver it from browser isntead of through the competitor stores themselves. They don't wanna

 

[Ozriel]

That's not what I said you pedantic prat. What I said is that the conflation doesn't negate the issue that Epic is retarded. Quit throwing a bitch-fit and backseat moderating. Use the report button instead of whining so much.

Are they ‘retarded’ in this particular lawsuit vs Google? well, we certainly won’t know if you keep prattling on about the EGS and Steam.

They don't need to do something as crazy as forking Android or making their own phone OS, they can have their store installed on any Android just like on PC, they just have to market it to people and deliver it from browser isntead of through the competitor stores themselves. They don't wanna

Their argument is that going that route puts them at a significant disadvantage since Google Play is the overwhelmingly dominant mobile app platform on Android as is installed as a default, unlike any platform they make. they want to remain on Google Play, while the courts force Google to allow other payment processors as viable means of payment in the app.

What I find baffling about their argument is that Fortnite is F2P, and in a scenario where they’re trying to avoid paying any share of the IAP revenue…how does Google get anything at all out of hosting Fortnite on Google Play?

 

[Alexios]

What I find baffling about their argument is that Fortnite is F2P, and in a scenario where they’re trying to avoid paying any share of the IAP revenue…how does Google get anything at all out of hosting Fortnite on Google Play?

They don't, and allowing it for Epic would mean all the profit shown here as large profit margin disappears too as it's coming from all the gacha games that are also f2p and they'll obviously also move to their own external solution if that's allowed, they should show how much of that is from f2p.

 

[KuraiShidosha]

Tim 'the weasel' Sweeney.

 

[FullMetalx117]

The end game of capitalism is basically a bunch of monopolies that are really good at what they do. Can’t speak to effects on society/humanity in general. But the system is “working”. Physical thresholds such as Moore’s law will only make it harder for anyone to displace these giants moving forward. Google is the weakest of the monopolies in my opinion tho - they pay $25 billion a year to make its search the default for iPhone? Well someday apple is going to make its own search that integrates accross its apps/iOS which can potentially displace Google. Otherwise, I welcome our inevitable monopoly overlords.

 

[Thirty7ven]

They always bring steam for no reason

This is about the apps on billions of devices that we use everyday locked behind a store

Their play store is basically just a bridge between the consumer and the apps. It’s bare bones in terms of features, Google doesnt seem to invest much money in it at all, and yet they no only ask for a toll to cross they then ask for another toll and another toll once you’re out of the bridge and driving around in roads they don’t own.

It’s like what if Amazon collected money from mtx on games they sold at the store. It’s just a store…

 

[poppabk]

They always bring steam for no reason

This is about the apps on billions of devices that we use everyday locked behind a store

They aren't locked though. My phone came with the Samsung store installed and you can easily add things like the Amazon app store. Epic could no doubt get most carriers to pre-install a fortnite app or an epic games store app if they were willing to pay. The apple thing at least made some sense seeing as there is no alternative on iOS but on Android that isn't the case.

 

[lyan]

What I find baffling about their argument is that Fortnite is F2P, and in a scenario where they’re trying to avoid paying any share of the IAP revenue…how does Google get anything at all out of hosting Fortnite on Google Play?

Well there are plenty of totally free apps hosted on Google Play which they don't get anything out of it.

 

[ZVWQP-9B8TM-VH9CT]

What exactly is epic suing Google over? Google allows sideloading and third party stores. Are epic just salty that no one wants the shitty epic store?

they have every right to use the store without giving them a whopping 30%. They are right about trying to stop these nonsense high fees. Next step should be Valve, they are doing nothing and Steam is a monopoly.

 

[Alexios]

What's the profit margin on Fortnite? How much has it cost to dev even with its constant updates vs the billions in revenue it generates (though to be apples to apples I should only ask how much it cost to dev the transaction backend)? Is it your right to pay lower MTX prices if you deem that high?

 

[Kataploom]

Can emply monopoly tatics...

And why we need people licking boots here?

"Licking boots" good damn it didn't take long to show emotional arguments lol

Let the company commit a crime if they gonna do so and you can punish them, you can't condemn people based on your perception of what they might probably, maybe do instead of what they actually do.

I know big companies can be a problem but not by the fact they're big, there's Steam out there doing great things for the industry even by being the absolute leader taking $30 of publishers money.

 

[LordCBH]

they have every right to use the store without giving them a whopping 30%. They are right about trying to stop these nonsense high fees. Next step should be Valve, they are doing nothing and Steam is a monopoly.

If they don’t like the fee they can simply not use the store. It’s very simple.

 

[ZVWQP-9B8TM-VH9CT]

If they don’t like the fee they can simply not use the store. It’s very simple.

well, no, they can get them to court, as they did. You "forgot" this option.

 

[Three]

well, no, they can get them to court, as they did. You "forgot" this option.

Which they would likely lose like they did with Apple. I can't say to a store "sell my shit and don't take a cut because you make too much money". The seller can make their own store or use other stores and the consumer is free to use any other store.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Remind us all again who owns 40% of Epic.

Here it is plain as day. Tim Sweeney wants the Apple/Android audience, without giving a cut of sales to platform holders.

He’s looking to set Tencent up real nice, before he eventually sells out to them.

 

[IFireflyl]

Are they ‘retarded’ in this particular lawsuit vs Google? well, we certainly won’t know if you keep prattling on about the EGS and Steam.

I didn't mention Steam once. Are you stupid or something?

 

[YeulEmeralda]

In the 15 years since I have a Android smartphone I can count on one hand the number of apps I've purchased.

 

[Kdad]

Tencent being the biggest, and defacto wagging EPIC's tail...nothing to see here folks.

 

[ZVWQP-9B8TM-VH9CT]

Which they would likely lose like they did with Apple. I can't say to a store "sell my shit and don't take a cut because you make too much money". The seller can make their own store or use other stores and the consumer is free to use any other store.

Apparently he also has the right to take them to the court. What's your fuking problem with that?

 

[AJUMP23]

As a stock owner, this is great, as a consumer this is terrible.