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[ZombieSupaStar]

Though you single out GTA, then any open nature-type game "render it's possibilities endless" by your description. But without online there are inherent limitations. GTA is not truly all about freedom as there are missions that need to be accomplished-effectively these are analogous to dungeons in an action/adventure/rpg or levels in a FPS.

There is quite a bit of openness in DragonQuest VIII with many sidequests and collect-a-thons. I'm sure DQ's possibilites could be advanced as well with more powerful media and hardware as much as GTA's. Halo next gen, even without online, has as much potential as GTA. Zelda games are quite open, with some limitations, why wouldn't Zelda have nearly as much potential? Add in the RevCon and you have much more possibilites than GTA. I can list more games. I can't see how GTA is unique in having its bar raised with the next gen.

Well gta has been since 3 at least being a "do anything game", not so much in terms of "I can beat the game by "doing anything", which is why your analogy to the missions = dungeons holds true. But more of that GTA is kind of a clean slate genre in terms of what to expect (besides being a crime game obviously) where as zelda is more direct to saving the princess etc just because of its past franchise inheratence.

I do think zelda can be more free form infact I thought the fishing part of OoT was awesome *wow its like a fishing game on its own but IN ZELDA!* Hard part about this territory is youll have gamers that just want to futz around in the game world and could care less about progression. And gamers that want to "beat" the game. I think gta will always have to tie itself to some sort of linear "mission progression". But also add in things that make the progression less linear (IE alot of story branches and endings), really a game like gta is BEGGING for mutiple paths and outcomes.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

I don't think it'll be irrelevant next gen. The question will be whether or not it'll be as big as it is this gen. There's nothing saying it won't, but as we've seen each gen there's almost always a new 'big" thing to come along. No one really expected GTA to be it this gen. It could really be anything.

'
I agree, but I still think that sequels to previous-gen hits can spur sales of a system early on. I still remember people buying PS2 for THPS3, nowadays THPS isn't a system seller but back in 2001 it was a big title for Sony. The next GTA will be a big factor ofor early sales, by the tail end of next-gen it might not, who knows. I still think there's a lot of life left in the thug genre.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I'm not sure if it'll remain exclusive but the co-op in it will add a lot. Plus of course there's the superpowers!

The co-op with superpowers sounds like fun.

Pick up powerful friend. Launch him through the air like a javelin into a helicopter. Watch debris of helicopter rain down. Watch debris of friend rain down. Hilarity follows.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

The co-op with superpowers sounds like fun.

Pick up powerful friend. Launch him through the air like a javelin into a helicopter. Watch debris of helicopter rain down. Watch debris of friend rain down. Hilarity follows.

Wait, whats crackdown? I that with the black dude in futuristic body armor?

'
I agree, but I still think that sequels to previous-gen hits can spur sales of a system early on. I still remember people buying PS2 for THPS3, nowadays THPS isn't a system seller but back in 2001 it was a big title for Sony. The next GTA will be a big factor ofor early sales, by the tail end of next-gen it might not, who knows. I still think there's a lot of life left in the thug genre.

it will always be a system seller to me!! So may good times with tony hawk 1 and 2

 

[Mrbob]

Isn't Crackdown an X360 exclusive? From what I have read, this game has a lot of promise and has the same sandbox gameplay aften associated with GTA.

Published by MS, developed with leads formerly on the GTA games, exclusive to 360.

Crackdown ftw. GTA4 can take a back seat!

Of course, I'll be buying the 360 version of GTA4 the same day the PS3 version is released. I hope so, that is! 2 DVD isn't a big deal if Rockstar handles things properly. Should only have to swap discs once midgame.

 

[Goreomedy]

The co-op with superpowers sounds like fun.

Pick up powerful friend. Launch him through the air like a javelin into a helicopter. Watch debris of helicopter rain down. Watch debris of friend rain down. Hilarity follows.

Remind me not to play Crackdown co-op with Denogginizer.

 

[raYne]

There have been SO MANY gta-clones/"killers" etc.

The thing about it is that it isn't even really considered a gta clone/killer because the gameplay's supposed to be drastically different from that series. The "sandbox" world is pretty much where the comparison begins and ends.

Remind me not to play Crackdown co-op with Denogginizer.

:lol

He's right though. Things like that are what's going to push Crackdown over the edge.

"Hey, I can't make it up to the 40th floor buy jumping"
"No problem. I'll toss this car up to the roof of that building, then I'll drive full speed off the roof and you jump out mid flight.
"Sounds like a plan!"

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Remind me not to play Crackdown co-op with Denogginizer.

Ahhh, C'mon! We can take turns!! :lol

 

[Jerkface]

I think the "GTA clone" term needs to die now, its a genre in itself now.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Wait, whats crackdown? I that with the black dude in futuristic body armor?

Yes

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Yes, David Jones, creator of GTA is making Crackdown for Microsoft. Microsoft is funding the game

the original 2D one, right? I get mixed up.

 

[phonte]

Published by MS, developed with leads formerly on the GTA games, exclusive to 360.

Crackdown ftw. GTA4 can take a back seat!

Of course, I'll be buying the 360 version of GTA4 the same day the PS3 version is released. I hope so, that is! 2 DVD isn't a big deal if Rockstar handles things properly. Should only have to swap discs once midgame.

aren't the principals behind crackdown formerly of gta BEFORE the third installment?

going by the movies, crackdown looks pretty lame. i really doubt it'll supplant gta for our 'sandbox' fix.

 

[Mrbob]

aren't the principals behind crackdown formerly of gta BEFORE the third installment?

going by the movies, crackdown looks pretty lame. i really doubt it'll supplant gta for our 'sandbox' fix.

From what I've read, David Jones left midway through GTA3 development to form his own studio. Could be wrong, though. Looking at Vice City and San Andreas, Rockstar is fine.

Crackdown isn't trying to be a GTA clone though. Crackdown is attempting to go above and beyond GTA in freeform play. At least this is the tale of the game! We shall see at E3 2006!

 

[Jerkface]

The cinematic trailer for Crackdown looks great, like a cross between Hulk, The Punisher and GTA!

aren't the principals behind crackdown formerly of gta BEFORE the third installment?

going by the movies, crackdown looks pretty lame. i really doubt it'll supplant gta for our 'sandbox' fix.

Oh come on, it's a 360 exclusive so you wouldn't lower yourself by playing it, right?

 

[krypt0nian]

Oh come on, it's a 360 exclusive so you wouldn't lower yourself by playing it, right?

He's worried about the "flagging sales of their brand" :lol

 

[dorio]

too big of a gamble, as there's no guarantee it'll bolster the flagging sales of their brand.

Joke Character?

I thought Crackdown was a first/second party title.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Has there ever been a real "killer" game? I'm talking about a game that's not only better than the game its trying to top, but also sales better than that game? It seems to always get attached to new games but never happens.

 

[Lord Error]

Like what? Dead or Alive? Sony's had that game twice. Shit Sega had that game twice, and they don't even make consoles anymore. So no shit that's up for grabs. What else does that leave, Ninja Gaiden? Anyone with brains should know that could go multiplatform. Halo? Owned by MS. And that leaves...what exactly? Mainly MS-published stuff, or stuff from developers owned by MS.

I was talking mostly about the past, not the future. By your logic, relatively small user base on Xbox would make it nonsensical to release any bigger-budget 3rd party game exclusively on it, but there were still quite a few very big games exclusive to it, like Doom 3, Half Life 2, Riddick, DOA3, DOA:U, NG, Otogi 1 and 2, Enclave, Far Cry, Splinter Cell (timed). Yes, many of them had PC versions, but so did GTA, MGS2 and some other big PS2 exclusives...

Now, I know some of those games will go multiplatform on next gen, but some probably will not.

 

[phonte]

Joke Character?

I thought Crackdown was a first/second party title.

not at all. when i said, "flagging sales," i meant, well, "flagging sales."

the xbox brand isn't exactly flying off the shelves anywhere, be it japan or the us. yes, they sold out some 700k units over here -- which, as a launch, is to be expected -- but the xbox is anathema in japan, and it isn't faring much better in europe.

it would be a gamble for MICROSOFT (rockstar could give a damn, as long as they get paid the big bucks) to shell out that much money for an exclusive that could very well fall short of what's needed to infuse much needed appeal into the xbox brand.

especially when the ps3 hits. when i mentioned the ps3 and xbox360 being on par in late2007/early2008, i didn't mean that their respective momentum would be anywhere near close. the ps3 is going to start running laps around the 360 come...the minute it's released. even when the units are sold out, the mindshare will run laps around the xbox brand's middling presence in the minds of millions biding their time until they can grab a ps3.

 

[dorio]

Has there ever been a real "killer" game? I'm talking about a game that's not only better than the game its trying to top, but also sales better than that game? It seems to always get attached to new games but never happens.

That question deserves a thread of its own? Has any so-called title "killer" ever actually actually killed its target.

The candidates: Killzone, Splinter Cell, Forza, that's all I got.

 

[dorio]

the ps3 is going to start running laps around the 360 come...the minute it's released. even when the units are sold out, the mindshare will run laps around the xbox brand's middling presence in the minds of millions biding their time until they can grab a ps3.

:lol Confirmed joke character.

 

[Shinobi]

:lol

He's right though. Things like that are what's going to push Crackdown over the edge.

"Hey, I can't make it up to the 40th floor buy jumping"
"No problem. I'll toss this car up to the roof of that building, then I'll drive full speed off the roof and you jump out mid flight.
"Sounds like a plan!"

:lol

I was talking mostly about the past, not the future. By your logic, relatively small user base on Xbox would make it nonsensical to release any bigger-budget 3rd party game exclusively on it, but there were still quite a few very big games exclusive to it, like Doom 3, Half Life 2, Riddick, DOA3, DOA:U, NG, Otogi 1 and 2, Enclave, Far Cry, Splinter Cell (timed). Yes, many of them had PC versions, but so did GTA, MGS2 and some other big PS2 exclusives...

Now, I know some of those games will go multiplatform on next gen, but some probably will not.

The past didn't see mutiple publishers publically fretting about the astronmical costs of development that they're expecting to face for the next few years...and that's a key difference. I don't think MS or Sony can pay enough money to get the sort of exclusives they bought last time to keep those publishers accountants happy. Sony's got some financial issues (though it seems they're starting to improve), and MS shareholders want to see some profit being turned on the XBox division, which will keep them from pissing away money to buy up games with small fortunes like they did the last few years.

And in the case of some of those XBox exclusives, some of them simply weren't feasible on PS2...Half Life 2, Doom 3, Far Cry and others. That's a different matter to ignoring another system due to a money hat being shoved into your PO box.

I'm not saying third party exclusives are gonna completely disappear...I just don't think they're gonna be as common.

 

[krypt0nian]

:lol Confirmed joke character.

Dude, check his Off topic posts for further confirmation. You have no idea.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

if it makes ya sleep better at night. i stopped caring as soon as they took the story line away from the mob and made it about petty street crime.

i always liked the fact it was mob related before.
soon as it became just some thug holding up 7/11's it ruined it for me.

(that's got nothing to do with gameplay though, just story)

have you ever even played San Andreas? Not only does it IN FACT involve the mob as you get further into the game's plot, but it involves the biggest form of organized crime on the planet, the motherfuckin LAPD (well, LSPD, but same shit). But i guess you make judgements on games just by looking at screenshots.

 

[kaching]

Crackdown isn't trying to be a GTA clone though. Crackdown is attempting to go above and beyond GTA in freeform play.

Above and beyond current gen GTAs, I would hope so. But that remains to be seen with regard to next gen GTA.

As usual you continue to confuse Crackdown's differing method of offering freeform gameplay with the actual degree of freeform gameplay it offers.

 

[Flo_Evans]

not at all. when i said, "flagging sales," i meant, well, "flagging sales."

the xbox brand isn't exactly flying off the shelves anywhere, be it japan or the us. yes, they sold out some 700k units over here -- which, as a launch, is to be expected -- but the xbox is anathema in japan, and it isn't faring much better in europe.

it would be a gamble for MICROSOFT (rockstar could give a damn, as long as they get paid the big bucks) to shell out that much money for an exclusive that could very well fall short of what's needed to infuse much needed appeal into the xbox brand.

especially when the ps3 hits. when i mentioned the ps3 and xbox360 being on par in late2007/early2008, i didn't mean that their respective momentum would be anywhere near close. the ps3 is going to start running laps around the 360 come...the minute it's released. even when the units are sold out, the mindshare will run laps around the xbox brand's middling presence in the minds of millions biding their time until they can grab a ps3.

dude...

DEL says to stop posting. You are making the Hieroglyphics sound dumb.

 

[Lord Error]

The past didn't see mutiple publishers publically fretting about the astronmical costs of development that they're expecting to face for the next few years...and that's a key difference.

I disagree with that, as I clearly remember many publishers fretting what would happen this gen with dev cost rising. Even extreme quotes like "Only a very few developers will be able to do anything on PS2". I do see and agree with the jist of your point though. Less 3rd party exclusives than in PS2/GC/XB gen, but probably not completely eliminated, I agree with that, .

 

[dorio]

dude...

DEL says to stop posting. You are making the Hieroglyphics sound dumb.

Well at least he didn't spell microsoft M$.

 

[Shinobi]

have you ever even played San Andreas? Not only does it IN FACT involve the mob as you get further into the game's plot, but it involves the biggest form of organized crime on the planet, the motherfuckin LAPD (well, LSPD, but same shit). But i guess you make judgements on games just by looking at screenshots.

:lol So true...

 

[Prine]

not at all. when i said, "flagging sales," i meant, well, "flagging sales."

the xbox brand isn't exactly flying off the shelves anywhere, be it japan or the us. yes, they sold out some 700k units over here -- which, as a launch, is to be expected -- but the xbox is anathema in japan, and it isn't faring much better in europe.

it would be a gamble for MICROSOFT (rockstar could give a damn, as long as they get paid the big bucks) to shell out that much money for an exclusive that could very well fall short of what's needed to infuse much needed appeal into the xbox brand.

especially when the ps3 hits. when i mentioned the ps3 and xbox360 being on par in late2007/early2008, i didn't mean that their respective momentum would be anywhere near close. the ps3 is going to start running laps around the 360 come...the minute it's released. even when the units are sold out, the mindshare will run laps around the xbox brand's middling presence in the minds of millions biding their time until they can grab a ps3.

*yawn*

 

[Ranger X]

From what I've read, David Jones left midway through GTA3 development to form his own studio. Could be wrong, though. Looking at Vice City and San Andreas, Rockstar is fine.

Crackdown isn't trying to be a GTA clone though. Crackdown is attempting to go above and beyond GTA in freeform play. At least this is the tale of the game! We shall see at E3 2006!

I wouldn't worry. David Jones probably can make a great game but GTA is GTA because of Sam and Dan Houser. And they are still at Rockstar and producing GTAs.

 

[Mrbob]

Above and beyond current gen GTAs, I would hope so. But that remains to be seen with regard to next gen GTA.

As usual you continue to confuse Crackdown's differing method of offering freeform gameplay with the actual degree of freeform gameplay it offers.

So you have already played Crackdown to suggest otherwise?

Wait till E3 06!

 

[kaching]

I have played neither Crackdown nor next-gen GTA, just like you. I have however read the same material about Crackdown as you have and the point stands.

 

[DarkMage619]

Well at least he didn't spell microsoft M$.

With the flagging XBOX brand the '$' isn't justified.

The Dark One

 

[dorio]

With the flagging XBOX brand the '$' isn't justified.

The Dark One

:lol

 

[trmas]

Visually the machines should be pretty close. Where the PS3 could potentially beat the 360 on this game is disk space. If PS3 initially, the game could be very large. If not, they will have to tone down the size of the game to accomodate the 360's little DVD drive.

That would be tragic for those that love the game.

 

[Amir0x]

have you ever even played San Andreas? Not only does it IN FACT involve the mob as you get further into the game's plot, but it involves the biggest form of organized crime on the planet, the motherfuckin LAPD (well, LSPD, but same shit). But i guess you make judgements on games just by looking at screenshots.

dude, in San Andreas you raid a fucking army base and heist god-damned alien goo off a train. That's thug, yo!

 

[Professor K]

...it makes perfect business sense to release on both simultaneously. The more consoles the game is available to, the more sales. What's the problem?

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Wait till Spaceworld!!!!!!!!

 

[M_A_C]

Visually the machines should be pretty close. Where the PS3 could potentially beat the 360 on this game is disk space. If PS3 initially, the game could be very large. If not, they will have to tone down the size of the game to accomodate the 360's little DVD drive.

That would be tragic for those that love the game.

OH YES TRAGIC!

Or we might just have to put in a second DVD halfway thru...

 

[Mrbob]

...it makes perfect business sense to release on both simultaneously. The more consoles the game is available to, the more sales. What's the problem?

The problem is that many Sony fans are under the misguided opinion the 360 is some vastly underpowered piece of kit compared to the Playstation 3, and Rockstar focusing efforts on a 360 version will diminish the quality of the final product.

I don't see a problem either. Multiplatform release ftw!

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

...it makes perfect business sense to release on both simultaneously. The more consoles the game is available to, the more sales. What's the problem?

then 1 side wont WIN!!!!!!!!!!!! (WTF...yeah exactly........)

 

[krypt0nian]

OH YES TRAGIC!

Or we might just have to put in a second DVD halfway thru...

Normally I'd agree but with a free-roaming game like GTA flipping discs back and forth would get kinda old very quickly.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Normally I'd agree but with a free-roaming game like GTA flipping discs back and forth would get kinda old very quickly.

would really depend on how much space the VA for the missions take up because thats about all that could be different on a disc

 

[dorio]

Seems like the main disc space for GTA went to the music so the 360 might get less music.

Judging by that article on disc space the high-res textures and polygons won't add much to the size.

 

[Willy Wanka]

I think it will be a timed exclusive for Sony again but appear on the Xbox 360 (and PC probably) later on. That is unless Sony have offered a big moneyhat to Rockstar.

 

[Jonnyram]

Has there ever been a real "killer" game? I'm talking about a game that's not only better than the game its trying to top, but also sales better than that game? It seems to always get attached to new games but never happens.

Yeah, Killzone!



oh, sorry, I meant Halo 2.