Audioboxer
Member
Has there been any info on the class tweaks? Wanting to know more about what they're doing with the Engineer.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
- Status
Yeah dungeons are anti-fun in this game. They should be less than an hour for sure. The randomized dungeons in the new upcoming content patch sound interesting and will hopefully lead to shorter dungeons that still have a sense of newness to them. Having some randomized elements would really encourage replayability and increase the fun factor. The bosses having a hilarious amount of HP is also a downer. What's the difference between a boss with 50,000 HP and one with 500,000 HP? The fight should focus on executing how you take down the boss, not min/maxing your DPS. This is why I like the Claw of Jormag battle. He mixes up his attacks, there are different patterns to learn and strategies to adopt, and while he takes effort to bring down, he doesn't have a billion HP.
Dungeons should have the potential to give you something worthwhile each run. Right now it feels like you are just tallying off the amount of tokens you get each time you go through them.
Also they should really get rid of the armor break in WVW mode. Yes, a lot of people bitch about this, but the mode is really a lose/lose situation. You play it, and either A) lose a bunch of money and time B) succeed, but ultimately it is pointless because all your castles you captured will flip the next four hours. Also you lost money.
There is a huge contrast between the pre-80 game and the post 80 game. The pre 80 game felt so fresh and unique. It still had a lot of MMO trappings, but GW2 executed them in such a way that you didn't mind. But when you hit 80, you have a set amount of things you can do and they are all a huge time/money sink. SPVP is pretty neat, but I can't see myself only doing that with my endgame character.
Dungeons should have the potential to give you something worthwhile each run. Right now it feels like you are just tallying off the amount of tokens you get each time you go through them.
Also they should really get rid of the armor break in WVW mode. Yes, a lot of people bitch about this, but the mode is really a lose/lose situation. You play it, and either A) lose a bunch of money and time B) succeed, but ultimately it is pointless because all your castles you captured will flip the next four hours. Also you lost money.
There is a huge contrast between the pre-80 game and the post 80 game. The pre 80 game felt so fresh and unique. It still had a lot of MMO trappings, but GW2 executed them in such a way that you didn't mind. But when you hit 80, you have a set amount of things you can do and they are all a huge time/money sink. SPVP is pretty neat, but I can't see myself only doing that with my endgame character.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Quoting what I find relevant to my response.
1) I agree. I've been running AC a LOT lately, and Kohler is a good example of this. Mechanically, the fight has one piece to figure out - dodge when he raises his sword. If he dropped about 20-40% of his HP, it would feel fine. As of now, I like killing him because of the chest, but it does feel like a bit of a chore.
2) I sort of agree with this. In one sense, I like the tokens as they basically guarantee me a reward every 4-6 runs or so. But most of the chests yield blues and the occasional green. That's barely forge fodder. If it's forge fodder they are offering up, more greens would be nice (as you can sell them for a few silver or forge them to try for more rares to break for ectos). Also, I haven't done enough to know if this is a thing, but my experience with chest found runes has been underwhelming - lots of crap.
3) The armor breaking penalty in WvW is one thing about it that I simply cannot stand. There's hardly an excuse for it given the nature of WvW in its current state. Trying to prevent the zerging? If that was the intention, it didn't work.
Yup - I quote this as it relates directly to my response above, too. Some high HP bosses are OK, especially if there's merit to them. But all of them having buckets of HP wears you down a bit.
Another dungeon note - if this is already available, I apologize...But I'd LOVE to have an idea on the general aggro mechanic. I will sometimes get focused to oblivion even when I'm not doing damage. Other times, I can't grab the boss's attention no matter how much power I pump out. It's confusing and sometimes frustrating, especially when I'm forced to blow all healing and defensive CDs and STILL end up dying because the boss decides he wants to punch me more. And more. And more.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
Dungeon loot is getting tweaked with this patch so we'll see how much they changed it.
Subject Alpha is a prime example of too much HP. I personally think he's a well-done boss that encourages skill and teamwork, but fighting him really wears you out and why I haven't been to CoE in a while.
Subject Alpha is a prime example of too much HP. I personally think he's a well-done boss that encourages skill and teamwork, but fighting him really wears you out and why I haven't been to CoE in a while.
I definitely agree about HP reductions for a ton of bosses- it's just a simple lowering of a number that would improve a lot of fights. The original alpha had so much HP it was almost amusing how desperate you'd become if he reset, and grenadiers on SE 1 used to be the toughest silver mobs in the game, so they actually are doing this little by little.
edit:
edit:
Haha, aw. Are you sure you've been since they patched him? I wouldn't describe him as "easy" now by any stretch, but they basically cut his HP in half since launch. Dude used to ask a pretty hardcore time investment
Everybody should do CoE with me over and over again! It's a great dungeon and Charged Lodestones are moneyyyyyyy. I like all three paths, and can run two of the three very rapidly.
That said,
Enhanced dungeon drops is very likely to be a part of this patch- at least something along the lines of "chance for something decent at each boss fight," based on past Hrouda comments
I actually couldn't disagree more. In fact I don't even know how I'd distinguish what I'd been doing pre-80 and post-80 with my main, at all. I hit 80 inside a dungeon and just kept right on going, and it's not like I've even beaten my personal story.Forkball said:
That the things to strive for at 80 are gold and time sinks isn't at all surprising or troublesome from my perspective, as if the possible rewards were all easy to get there would be no sense of accomplishment.
Generally I agree but what on earth could you be talking about with CoF1? I can't think of a single encounter that isn't essentially squishified on that run, and it's the fastest one in the game by far. Nothing in that path needs to be made easier
Nicoga, the Kholer fight is quite a bit more fun if you're a mesmer.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Nicoga, the Kholer fight is quite a bit more fun if you're a mesmer.
The first time I saw the Troll fight going on, I couldn't stop laughing. That made my day.
And vanilla Kohler (if you will) is just a bit monotonous at times. I don't mind it, but groups will typically skip him because he takes too much time for too little reward. I <3 chests, but I've slowly started to see the issue that everyone has with him (time vs reward).
If they are indeed tweaking chest rewards with this patch, I think the effort of some of these higher HP bosses would be redeemed.
Aye, it's certainly worth it to skip him under many circumstances; the 5s from each of the Champ gravelings is a better investment of time than the chest. But this is definitely a known issue and hopefully an aspect of this patch.
Sorry for not remembering, but what class are you? There are definitely bosses that get a hard-on for one party member and just go nuts, but there may be ways available to break it.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Yeah, that 5s is nice. I get why people prefer to skip him, but I HAVE received a pretty nice Berserker's Pendant from one chest in there. So I get antsy at the thought of loot chests.
And I'm a Guardian. I'll pop Virtue of Courage, Shield of Wraith (Focus 5), Signet of Resolve, Virtue of Resolve, and I have Signet of Judgement up. I mean, outside of sword and board, I feel like I'm doing most of what I can to reduce incoming damage and mitigate attacks. And it's not just Kohler, but he's the best example since he likes to focus one person and go to town.
Ah, yeah, guardians aren't what I had in mind when I was thinking about aggro breaks. I guess holding aggro as a guardian is actually the best thing you can do for your team in many cases, so take heart... I have a thief and a mesmer and getting rid of aggro is almost what they're best at.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Ha - yeah. I can soak up damage for a good while, but after I've gone through all of my CDs, I have to throw down Retreat and Staff 3 and kite, haha. It's not bad, but it's just annoying given that I'm not quite sure how aggro works really in GW2.
Certainly doesn't make it completely transparent, but here's the best info we've got: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro
HoTW, but I'd be careful doing it.
I hope they keep the Agony away from WvW.
So have people been banned? :O
Going through the back-paths to skip tons of everything is a minor exploit, I certainly couldn't deny that, but just killing the two bosses on the same run without doing so is not if you were to just fight your way to both. I wonder what about the behavior on the run would/could even flag ArenaNet that you were doing it- it's not as though it has an effect on the economy, other players, or what have you (you get the rewards just as you would for doing each path seperately, subject to dr and all that). That said, the holes in the level should and will be fixed, I'm sure. I'm just wondering if actually killing both bosses is considered an exploit or not, I think it's really cool that you can do it.
I'll put down $25 right now that Agony will never touch WvW.
I think it's clear that they're going to have Infusions that have actual everyday use in PvE- but this opens a number of interesting, and quite frankly, kind of exciting questions:
-Will there be infusions that stack?
-Do infusions have set effects like runes?
-Will a full infusion set always be superior to an exotic-rune set, or will they both be viable for different situations?
-Can you hot-swap infusions in and out of that slot somehow? (I am tentatively expecting something along these lines; though it's tough to say with just rings and back pieces being unveiled)
---Note on this one: imagine if infusions could be swapped out at will and had the "slaying potion" effects. Say you've got the dredge and the svanir infusion- equip them only for those dungeons to do some extra damage without having to quaff the pots. I'd actually be mad down for that, and I can imagine the Undead Slaying Infusion prices on the TP already
-Will infusions be sellable and come in rarities along with varieties (off., def., omni)?
-Will there be an infusion that makes a homicidal parrot emerge when you get hit? If not they're never going to replace runes
Edit:
http://gw2lfg.com/
Hey look at that!
Did somebody yell "ARAH!"?
Why is this worthwhile?
Many people don't know that you can join and party with people for dungeons even if they're on another server- though I'm still not sure about other world regions.
If you're having trouble finding a group in the guild this is a pretty solid way to find others.
Shit there's even an android app
Leah Rivera on the New Fractals of the Mist Dungeon
Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z78-u18is_g&hd=1
Looking at the trailer, it looks like one of the Fractals might be set in Pre-Searing Ascalon.
Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z78-u18is_g&hd=1
This dungeon is unlike anything you’ve played in Guild Wars 2. It’s built of an array of mini-dungeons, which we call fractals. These fractals are slices of the Mists, fragments of time that have been stabilized by the intrepid asura researcher Dessa. Some of these vignettes from history may be familiar to original Guild Wars players, while others will represent previously unseen events. Because of their eclectic origin, each fractal is built as a distinct, separate experience with themes, mechanics, and art specific to that fractal.
You access the Fractals of the Mist by gathering your party of five in Lion’s Arch and entering a new asura gate (seen below).
Unlike the other dungeons, your party can be any level. We’ve employed World vs. World-style sidekicking to make this dungeon accessible to all players. But keep in mind, our aim was to challenge level 80 players. Going in at low levels is not for the faint of heart!
Once you enter the portal you’ll be taken to the Mistlock Observatory, a safe haven created by Dessa within the Mists. From there you’ll start your first round of fractals. You’ll be sent to three randomly chosen destinations and once you’ve vanquished all three of these fractals, you’ll be brought back to the Mistlock Observatory hub to rest and regroup. On top of that, every other round before you return to the hub you’ll be faced with a bonus “boss fractal.” Here, you will face an encounter akin to our big world bosses!
Seems simple, right? Well, there’s one last mechanic that makes this dungeon unique.
To make Fractals of the Mist even more challenging, every time you re-visit the hub, the dungeon scales up in difficulty. That’s right, a scaling dungeon! The dungeon will remember your progress, and will poll the party’s levels when you enter, scaling the dungeon to the highest common attained level. It’s a true challenge, but as you hit higher and higher scales, the dungeon will get more and more rewarding. You’ll have to have some serious skills and solid tactics to make it through these Fractals. After a certain point, our new Ascended items and Infusions become crucial tools for survival. (source)
Looking at the trailer, it looks like one of the Fractals might be set in Pre-Searing Ascalon.
ChackanKun
Member
Holy crap, that sounds amazing!
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
So just to check...If you get stuck at a certain point of difficulty, you're "stuck"? Since it remembers your progress? Or is there going to be a way to reset it?
Well hot damn.
I've decided I want my Eagle Set ready to go so that I have a full compliment of Thief builds (control, damage, support) before heading into the Fractals.
That means I must earn a lot of gold tonight (don't know exactly how much I need, will depend on the TP a bit).
I plan to make most of it doing dungeons, so that I can buy dungeon exotics to actually slot the runes in when I'm done. So, to that end, dungeons I'll be willing to run tonight:
CoE- All paths, as many times as possible
Charged cores are a realllllly good source of cash.AC- All paths. The extra silver on the big mobs in here really adds up
CoF 1, happy to run multiple times essentially until the DR on silver is dried up
SE- Path 3
CM- Path 1 and/or 3
HotW- 2 or 3
If you really need somebody for TA I'll do that too.
In between I'll probably be farming in Orr or leveling my alt in lucrative ways
Pretty awesome that I could actually level my mesmer in the Fractals, too (not faint of heart personally ).I'm assuming it resets if you leave the hub, and only scales if you play continuously without exiting.
It sounds like it automatically increases the difficulty to match the player who's beaten the highest number of cycles. But we've also heard them mention that you can manually adjust the difficulty if needed. We'll see on Friday.
Nah, it specifically says it remembers your progress.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I don't mean it in a demeaning way, but did you read the article?
That sounds like it is always scaling up, even when you leave/re-visit.
Yeah, I read it. I just read that part wrong.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
OK - I wasn't trying to get on you, I just wanted to check if you and I were reading the same thing.
I do hope that there's a way to reset the dungeon, though. I would hate to get stuck at a part that is simply impossible to overcome.
OK - I wasn't trying to get on you, I just wanted to check if you and I were reading the same thing.
I do hope that there's a way to reset the dungeon, though. I would hate to get stuck at a part that is simply impossible to overcome.
I think that's kind of the point though; to have a dungeon that just gets harder and harder and harder until you reach a point where you cannot progress any further without awesome GW2 skills. They say it can go on indefinitely, but I have to imagine there's a point where the Agony debuffs are just too powerful to overcome with gear. That's probably the point of Agony to begin with; to have a method of controlling potential progress through the Fractals.
That said, I'm sure there will be a way to reset it, or at least choose which difficulty level you want. We'll just have to wait and see.
Honestly, I see it as a rogue-like-lite. You delve for cool gear upgrades and loot. When you're finally kicked out, you sell that loot and use those upgrades to make your next run better. There will be "Most Fractals survived" records and such. Because it sidekicks you up to level 80, it's almost a definite that one of the hidden monthlies will be either "Beat a certain number of Fractals" or "Most Fractals beaten in one run."
The last monthly will then be "Number of enemy crabs weak points hit for massive damage."
The last monthly will then be "Number of enemy crabs weak points hit for massive damage."
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
True. As long as it doesn't turn into a skill ceiling, I'll be OK. The idea of content that "perfect play" cannot progress through is more bothersome to me than a gear treadmill.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
I don't know anyone who has been banned for exploiting dungeons. I'm just surprised the Hotw shortcut lasted this long. And yeah I'm up for some dungeon runs.
And I'll just agree to disagree regarding ascended/agony. This thread has finally calmed down and I rather just talk about random GW2 stuff without that topic derailing the entire thread.
And I'll just agree to disagree regarding ascended/agony. This thread has finally calmed down and I rather just talk about random GW2 stuff without that topic derailing the entire thread.
This is how I read it, both times (the previous info posted, and this new one)
I believe it only keeps getting harder during a single 'run.' When it says it gets harder each time you revisit the hub, it means that after 3 dungeons you go back to the hub and the next 3 will be harder. Repeat until you can't go any further or you decide to quit and leave. If you came back the next day it would be back to the beginning.
I believe it only keeps getting harder during a single 'run.' When it says it gets harder each time you revisit the hub, it means that after 3 dungeons you go back to the hub and the next 3 will be harder. Repeat until you can't go any further or you decide to quit and leave. If you came back the next day it would be back to the beginning.
The previous info posted said there's a merchant at the hub. So you can sell after 3 fractals; each time you are back at the hub.
Not that I would qualify as elite, but I can't because I won't be online.
But I love running dungeons with you guys, so whenever I'm on I'm game.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
This evening? What are your INTENTIONS?
Will go if I make it home in time, lol. Could use the HotW and I don't mind CoE. I suppose there're a group of us who're so used to CoE that it's no big deal until we wipe for hours.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
My biggest frustration with dungeons thus far has been the huge damage spikes. I'm a Mesmer and it seems like if I don't build for toughness I get one or two shotted down constantly. Especially on enemies like Alpha where he does massive AoE that requires a very well timed dodge to avoid. Some of my issues are definitely just about learning the dungeons because I've only run a handful of them and only a few times. At this point the low survivability of my shatter build is basically making rethink it. I am hoping that once I get a little more gear my DPS will be enough to make up for it. I'm almost done with my full berserker set.
I haven't fought him yet with my mesmer, but I've been thinking about it. I have to imagine Blink will have a permanent slot on my bar for that dungeon. I don't know it well yet, but Portal might be usable as another "extra dodge" as well. And dooon't forget about the Distortion shatter. 3 seconds of it will let you waltz right through that AoE.
edit: Ooh, you're doing a full-tilt critical damage shatter build. I'll have to make that one of mine as well, though it won't be my mainstay most likely. Your Mind Wracks must wreck silvers left and right.
This'll probably be starting around 8:00PMEST.CoE- All paths, as many times as possible
AC- All paths. The extra silver on the big mobs in here really adds up
CoF 1, happy to run multiple times essentially until the DR on silver is dried up
SE- Path 3
CM- Path 1 and/or 3
HotW- 2 or 3
If you really need somebody for TA I'll do that too..
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
Yeah, if I do it again I'll probably keep blink on there. The Distortion shatter would be handy, but it'll only work if you have the clones up at the right time so it's not a guarantee. I wouldn't really complain at all if it wasn't an instant death situation. If I could take at least one hit of it without dying, or there were a slightly bigger gap between them to allow for team mates to rez each other without dying themselves it wouldn't be so bad.
I definitely couldn't afford to keep both portal and blink on there though. If I did I would lose one of my valuable clone producing slot skills. I don't think portal would be super effective anyway though.
Not just that, but I can use Mind Wrack, pump out 3 more illusions instantly, use cry of frustration, pump out three more illusions and use Signet of Illusions to reset my shatters, and then do another Mind Wrack, all in just a few seconds. Very good burst damage every time my skills are cool. The big thing is I need the gear and the proper Sigils/Runes/Jewels. My full berserker set should be done tonight, then it's just working on the other stuff.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I'm level 77 still. If I can get 80, and you're OK with it, I'd kill to join. I already have a set of 80 Berserker gear ready, just need to grab 2.5 levels.
Are you kidding me? Come and get your last three levels in the dungeons silly
It's the best XP in the game!I hear you, my theory for fighting him would be to keep clones up basically as close to the whole time as possible, rarely shattering for damage/confusion until the last little bit of the fight. With Debilitating Dissipation (one of my absolutely favorite traits), replacing clones is actually an offensive tactic; that, and the extra warm bodies for alpha to aggro, would be my major contribution to the fight, as I know I'd have to concentrate way more on keeping myself alive than with my thief.AWF said:
I'm imagining you mean Mirror Images and Decoy for producing clones. Those two + Blink is exactly what I'd plan to keep up for the fights, eschewing my normal reliance on ethereal fields and chaos armor. I'd probably still keep time warp, since that would help make up for my lackluster DPS.
In my mind the cycle of the fight would be: Get 3 clones up-> Dodge AOE -> Replace clones with weapon skills as often as possible -> Replace killed clones with MI/Decoy immediately -> Distortion for AOE when out of endurance -> Time Warp as often as it's up -> Target purple crystals with leap/blurred frenzy -> Go nuts with shatters when he's <25% life
Blink is a yes. Portal is useless as you have to drop one side and then run off and drop the other side in order to enter it.
Distortion shatter is questionable even while running the grandmaster trait where you become a shatter point as well. With the GM trait, it's fine as an "oh shit" shatter from my experience if you can pull the timing off correctly, bonus if your clones/phantasms are up since they net you more time. The reason is because Alpha eats clones and phantasms in one hit if they're not traited to be more beefy. I haven't tested the traits to make them have higher HP as it kind of takes away from my own effectiveness though.
I know there is another point to make but I can't remember for the life of me what it was.
Edit: Okay. After Hawkian's post above me, that is something I can test tonight if I make it. The issue used to be where we were pretty much required to stack for damage mitigation and reviving. Clones/phantasms would drift out since Alpha would keep getting pushed around or someone had the agro who didn't want it so they'd run off with him. This would cause the clones/phantasms to become more potential flame tooth points and they were pretty detrimental to the group depending on the position. However, with the changes I've noticed, the idea with the utility skill clones and the traited clone on dodge ones are more promising since they don't make their own distance and they don't bounce back and forth like the swordsman phantasm.
I find that Alpha really is either a game of unloading clones/phantasms quickly for the Ether feast or a shatter OR a game of keeping them alive for your needs.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Are you kidding me? Come and get your last three levels in the dungeons silly
If you're willing to start your chain in a dungeon I can enter, I am SOOO there.
Ah thanks (haven't even unlocked portal yet).
Interesting point about Illusionary Persona- does that mean you get an extra second of Distortion? That's really cool, especially with the "oh btw reflection too" trait.
See above for my idea of how to approach the fight (Portal was just a quick thought, hadn't actually planned on it).
You can enter any dungeon at any level- and the 3 levels of difference is not at all prohibitive. Only thing is you need to have decent gear (60 gear at level 77 means you get eaten alive in exp mode).
I once completed TA explorable when I was 7 levels "too young" for it, much to the chagrin of my group who basically had full-time medic duty (sorry again guys! mixed up the level reqs for CM and TA).
Ill join in if Im on in time (8-8:30pm est)
Otherwise Im open for dungeon running regardless of group or dungeon.
Not yet, and it likely won't make it into this next patch either. That's what comes of making it browser based, but hopefully they'll have something for us soon.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
True.
Chances are, I should be able to hit 80 by the time you're scheduling the "start". That's about 3 hours after I get home from work, so I could, in theory, craft my way to 80 with no problems.
Oh, very cool.
Note that I am totally dungeon agnostic for tonight- if any of you actually need the tokens for something specific we'll go there first. I'm in this for tokens in general and mostly, for the cash. I'll be seriously emptying out my inventory beforehand.
Mumble is highly requested (no mic needed, just to listen at least), pace will be fast.
- Status