/thread.
edit: BTW ANET LotRO already tried this with Radiance. It failed and they scrapped it.
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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
- Status
/thread.
edit: BTW ANET LotRO already tried this with Radiance. It failed and they scrapped it.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Basically, yes. Example.
Exotic ring:
+50 Power
+25 Precision
+25 Vit
Slot bonus:
+10 Power
+5 Precision
+5 Vit
Total bonus:
+60 Power
+30 Precision
+30 Vit
Ascended ring of same caliber:
+65 Power
+35 Precision
+35 Vit
Infusion slot:
+xx Agony resistance (?)
The difference will be that nominal. Nothing game breaking, but something to push you a little over. What you miss out on, though, is what we sort of talked about in Mumble yesterday - no more ability to get that 6/6 Rune of the Flock or similar 6/6 bonuses. By running full Ascended gear (when available), you may have more base stats, but your bonuses and potential perks (blinding, life steal, etc) will be gone because you won't have slots to play with. Hence why you would still want to have Exotic gear sets available for when you DON'T need Agony resistance.
The only possible change will come when they release more info on higher level Infusion pieces. I'm not sure if they've made clear what they intend to add BEYOND Agony resistance (or maybe a Deadly Poison, Debilitate, etc resist for later dungeons).
It's not even the gear increase that bothers me. It's the whole LOTRO radiance-like system they're putting in, and said they plan to expand on, that's the issue. The stat increase is a non-issue. It's so small it's really unimportant.
Gear/infusions to counter the Agony in this content update, and infusions to counter a new mechanic specific the the next one, and yet another infusion to counter a new mechanic specific to the next one. You don't see the issue if they keep
That's part of the issue for me. I don't want to have to get new infusions to counter agony, then another infusion to counter some other mechanic specific to the next update. It's rings and back pieces for now, but they said it will expand to other armor in the future updates to the point where you'll be able to get full set of ascended gear with infusions.
The blog post said:
That, to me, says we'll see more new mechanics and specific ways to counter them for single content updates. That's a horrible, horrible way to gate content and makes people required to have multiple sets of gear for single dungeons/content. It'd be as if they require you to get entirely separate gear sets in order to do each of the current dungeons in the game.
Those who think people are over reacting should read about the radiance system in LOTRO and why the devs removed it in this dev post they made.
Adding things like this that can only be magically countered by some random piece of armor/infusion instead of player skill is one of the worst ways to gate people from your content.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
And truthfully, we can't know ANet's intent at this time. We have to wait and see. Hopefully they realize what they're doing and will be able to push the content in the right direction and LEARN from the Radiance issue that LotRO ran into. The community is assuming that ANet is going to fuck this up bad - that's really unfair given how strong they've been up to this point with delivering an overall solid experience.
I am starting to get a little bewildered and concerned at the outrage manufactured with the news being released here. I haven't seen anything even remotely egregious announced let alone game-breaking, and yet
Let me ask a few questions and try and narrow down why there's so much rage. Please look them over and answer if you are very upset and get the chance, because my morbid curiosity is getting the better of me.
1) Do people suspect that creatures throughout all of Tyria are suddenly going to start using Agony now?
2) Do people think that Exotics are going to be useless now? (by the way, if this drives the prices of Exotics down from here on out I will quite certainly not be complaining)
3) Since all that's being released now is rings and back pieces, not full armor sets, does anyone expect the stat boost from being "maxed" after this update to make that much of a gameplay impact? (looks like it'sabout the boost from Rare to Exoticnegligible for two accessories and one armor slot)
4) Once there is, sometime in the future, a full scope of armor pieces of the Ascended tier, do people think it will be very difficult to get?
5) Unless Agony actually makes the new content unplayable without Infusions, how is it a gear check?
Here's what I had to say for myself on the topic before they announced what was going on:
I don't know. I guess we've all become pretty cynical. I was worried when I heard the first announcement too, but this is pretty tame stuff, and if it gives the "im lvl 80 what do I doooo" crowd a chew toy for 48 hours that's a bonus as far as I'm concerned.
Our natural reaction used to be excitement when stuff is announced, right? Am I just romanticizing the past?
Anyway I'm gonna go get my hype on in the patch thread, but I just wanted to get this out of my system here.
Seriously? Seriously. You don't even want to see how it plays out, and check out the full update, before you just bolt? This attitude is beyond me. Where did you get the impression that there was a gear grind now? How has this announcement made the game into wow? Am I just misinterpreting sarcasm or hyperbole?
Let me ask a few questions and try and narrow down why there's so much rage. Please look them over and answer if you are very upset and get the chance, because my morbid curiosity is getting the better of me.
1) Do people suspect that creatures throughout all of Tyria are suddenly going to start using Agony now?
2) Do people think that Exotics are going to be useless now? (by the way, if this drives the prices of Exotics down from here on out I will quite certainly not be complaining)
3) Since all that's being released now is rings and back pieces, not full armor sets, does anyone expect the stat boost from being "maxed" after this update to make that much of a gameplay impact? (looks like it's
4) Once there is, sometime in the future, a full scope of armor pieces of the Ascended tier, do people think it will be very difficult to get?
5) Unless Agony actually makes the new content unplayable without Infusions, how is it a gear check?
Here's what I had to say for myself on the topic before they announced what was going on:
So it turned out it was the bolded, except instead of a full new tier it's just rings and back pieces for now. I'm sorry, but... snore? And the Agony/Infusion concept is something I actually really enjoyed from GW1 (I have no knowledge on how it compares to anything in LOTRO)... made you feel like you were going up against a unique and uniquely powerful type of enemy that needed extra preparation to face unafraid. I look forward to getting better and better at the Fractals of the Mists over a long period of time.
I don't know. I guess we've all become pretty cynical. I was worried when I heard the first announcement too, but this is pretty tame stuff, and if it gives the "im lvl 80 what do I doooo" crowd a chew toy for 48 hours that's a bonus as far as I'm concerned.
Our natural reaction used to be excitement when stuff is announced, right? Am I just romanticizing the past?
Anyway I'm gonna go get my hype on in the patch thread, but I just wanted to get this out of my system here.
I assume we're talking in the future hypothetically, right? For now, "full ascended" gear is two rings and a back slot piece- it won't affect rune sets.
It's not even either weapons or armor, we don't know how hard it is to get or what grind may or may not be required... it's just one of those things I guess.
So how does this new 'Ascended' tier compare to previous upgrades in item rarity?
I did a little number crunching... As of right now, we only have 1 Ascended magic find ring to compare our items to so I found level equivalent rings of different rarity. I took the best upgrade slot item available at that range and added it to the base stats of the ring. This is what you get:
The biggest change is still from Rare -> Exotic. The bump from Exotic -> Ascended is similar to the bump from Masterwork -> Rare.
The Ring is also unique... I assume that means you can not equip 2 of them. Having the unique restriction on the ring might also affect stat Min/Maxing.
I think people worry because the bump from Rare to exotic was so HUGE that this next bump will be just as noticeable. It wont.
I did a little number crunching... As of right now, we only have 1 Ascended magic find ring to compare our items to so I found level equivalent rings of different rarity. I took the best upgrade slot item available at that range and added it to the base stats of the ring. This is what you get:
The biggest change is still from Rare -> Exotic. The bump from Exotic -> Ascended is similar to the bump from Masterwork -> Rare.
The Ring is also unique... I assume that means you can not equip 2 of them. Having the unique restriction on the ring might also affect stat Min/Maxing.
I think people worry because the bump from Rare to exotic was so HUGE that this next bump will be just as noticeable. It wont.
Zyrusticae
Banned
Haha! No. Their dungeon content has largely been sub-par and they've done very little to fix that.
Don't be surprised that I'm not looking forward to this in any way, shape, or form.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
When they put in a mechanic that has already failed in a past game it doesn't really boost confidence.
We'll see how far down the rabbit hole they go with this, but having played LotRO I'm not looking forward to it.
If they provide people with the ability to reach Ascended gear through WvW/Crafting I really don't have a problem with them introducing a new rarity. It seems to me that Ascended is in the testing phase of the rollout.
If ANET wanted to not fail perhaps they shouldnt have released an MMO in this era. I'll give them a chance to execute on this idea.
If ANET wanted to not fail perhaps they shouldnt have released an MMO in this era. I'll give them a chance to execute on this idea.
Yep, and anyone who played through that content already knows what crap it can be and how it can damage a community (who is already being jerks to others without the need of a gating mechanic.
Really disappointed in ANET.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I still think it's really shitty of everyone to judge them before the content is even available. I get where some of you guys are coming from, but seriously - give them a chance.
Are you referring to how some bug out or how some are seemingly impossible? They've been pretty clear on the fact that you need to use your food buffs and make sure your skills reflect the situation to make them manageable in some situations. Going pure DPS isn't going to make a kiting based encounter fun/manageable.
Are you referring to how some bug out or how some are seemingly impossible? They've been pretty clear on the fact that you need to use your food buffs and make sure your skills reflect the situation to make them manageable in some situations. Going pure DPS isn't going to make a kiting based encounter fun/manageable.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Zyrusticae
Banned
I'm well aware of this.
And it's also my biggest problem with the dungeons. They're gimmicky, and once you've figured out the gimmick there is simply no challenge to them. They're designed to test stats and builds, not player skill.
And I am really not a fan of encounters that require you to go ranged kiting just to survive. The game is already heavily ranged-biased as it is, there's no need to make it impossible to engage certain enemies in melee...
BrettWeir
Member
My only concern with Ascended armor, etc, is what type of effect it will have on crafters and the economy. Ori prices have already begun to plummet.
WTB huge story arcs that reward you with "pieces" of a legendary precursor, with a huge final boss encounter (not instanced) that opens up or spawns some type of ancient forge or blacksmith that will forge the pieces together.
WTB huge story arcs that reward you with "pieces" of a legendary precursor, with a huge final boss encounter (not instanced) that opens up or spawns some type of ancient forge or blacksmith that will forge the pieces together.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
And that's fine. The idea of having to bring everything to the table for a dungeon is fun to me. As a Guardian, I carry a Staff, Scepter/Focus, and a Greatsword. I really enjoy being able to run a ranged heavy build for some fights and a melee focused build for others. Some may HATE that, and that's OK.
The only tweak I'd really like ANet to make to the game (relatively unrelated) is the ability to swap traits and/or skills (on cool down) like WoW's dual spec. I have 3 very distinct sets of skills I like to use depending on the encounter. I'm not always a fan of having to re-assign these skills.
After some consideration, the reason the value of Exotics and their mats are dropping could be due to the value of precursors going down. Introducing easier ways to obtain precursors is why we are seeing this market decline.
Exotics will still have value due to the importance of legendary weapons... Remember, Legendary weapons are just Ascended statted weapons with unique skins.
Also people are liquidating their items to get gold to buy gems while they are cheap. More suppliers are stepping in right now. Everyone wants to win the weapon skin lotto and buy tickets when they are cheap.
Nemesis121
Member
I make my money from crafting, the bots fucked up the prices, bots are gone, prices start to stabilize, they come and do this shit, fuck off failnet...
I'm really disappointed to see so many people just dismiss other's concerns with how similar this is to systems other MMOs abandoned, like the radiance system in LOTRO. I'm about as big of a GW1/2 fanboy as they come, I just don't gush about it here like some, but can easily see where the concern is with this new agony/infusion system, especially with the wording in the blog post making it sound like things like this are only the beginning. It's a road I really don't want this game to travel down.
Bad ideas don't suddenly become good ideas just because they're implemented in a new game.
Bad ideas don't suddenly become good ideas just because they're implemented in a new game.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
If ANet steps in right now and says that ascended gear will be the last tier of gear, then I won't mind this part of the update. There is a signficant gap between obtaining exotics and legendaries and this more or less bridges the gap between the two. But the problem is right now Anet has some shitty PR and thus we won't even know if we begun on the slippery slope or not.
However, there is no defending the agony mechanic. It was terrible in Everquest, it was terrible in WoW, it was terrible in Rift, it was terrible in LOTRO, and I don't see this being any different.
However, there is no defending the agony mechanic. It was terrible in Everquest, it was terrible in WoW, it was terrible in Rift, it was terrible in LOTRO, and I don't see this being any different.
BrettWeir
Member
I hate dungeons, so I'm ignorant when it comes to them, but I've read a shit ton of complaints about people that get kicked half way or right before completing dungeons. Wont this whole new Agony thing make that even worse?
/after an hour, dudebro finally gets a group, is 2 shorted, then promptly kicked because he didn't have Agony resist.
LOL
/after an hour, dudebro finally gets a group, is 2 shorted, then promptly kicked because he didn't have Agony resist.
LOL
From what they've said about Agony, it seems dumb. I did not expect this from a game such as gw2. It's not quite as bad as, say, a resistance check in wow (princess huhuran, etc). It seems like you can beat the stuff without it, but since it gets harder every time you repeat it, eventually you'll need the gear to beat it more than N times in a row. Still a dumb mechanic, but not the worst thing ever.
As for the gear ceiling going up, people are being absurdly dramatic about it. This isn't really a game that relies heavily on stats, and a tiny stat increase on some new gear is essentially meaningless. People are acting like the world is ending.
As for the gear ceiling going up, people are being absurdly dramatic about it. This isn't really a game that relies heavily on stats, and a tiny stat increase on some new gear is essentially meaningless. People are acting like the world is ending.
The English Conquistador
Member
Hey guys,
Just wondering, which direction would be a best for a Sylvari once I've finished Caledon Forest? I've done the entire area, quest-wise, and 98 percent of the other stuff has been collected in the area and was thinking of moving West. I can't remember the name of the area, but I have just entered it but wanted to get some advice before I go any further.
I'm level 15 btw.
Thanks!
Just wondering, which direction would be a best for a Sylvari once I've finished Caledon Forest? I've done the entire area, quest-wise, and 98 percent of the other stuff has been collected in the area and was thinking of moving West. I can't remember the name of the area, but I have just entered it but wanted to get some advice before I go any further.
I'm level 15 btw.
Thanks!
Mr. Luchador
Member
More unique gear skins would be great.
People are being dramatic because ArenaNet said there would be no vertical progression in GW2 past Exotic.
It may be a slight increase now but what about later? After they introduce the full Ascended set what then? A new dungeon with a new condition with a new armor set that is a slight increase over Ascended?
When they start outright lying to us how can we not be dramatic?
I believe the area you're referencing is Brisban Wildlands, which is gorgeous and has some cool events in it, and is right at your level. But, keep in mind that:
1) You can also go to the other races' starting areas if you feel like it, it's an easy jump any time through Lion's Arch
2) Lower-level content will still be worthwhile, and doing some higher-level content won't be impossble- I encourage you to just explore at your own pace, and you'll realize quickly if you're out of your league somewhere
I'm sorry, when did they say this...?
I dunno, we're speculating.
I don't know, let's just wait and see? All we can do now is wildly speculate.
That would be pretty dumb and lazy and I'd be very surprised buuut again we have no idea.
Interesting.. I think I'm starting to get it.
From what I have gathered:
The Fractals seem like an infinite dungeon with ever increasing difficulty. By going 9 levels into it you probably experience all of it (story and content) once. If you want to go further or experience higher difficulty in this infinite dungeon you have to acquire and start gearing yourself in Infused gear.
I don't see the point in this infused backlash. It exists on its own as a mechanic for specific content. You will be able to choose "Do significantly more damage vs enemy type" Offensive, "Have significantly more resistance vs enemy type" Defensive, or "Do slightly more damage and have slightly more resistance" (Omni). Those type of checks already exist... if you want to do a high level explorable dungeon you need to have level appropriate gear equipped. You shouldn't go into Ghost Eater with level 7 armor/weapons.
If the dungeon is infinite and easy to experience without much infusions (at lower difficulty) everyone is panicking for no reason. If there is a leaderboard/high score/how far did they get mechanic this end game content serves exactly those that it intends to serve : End game players.
The Fractals seem like an infinite dungeon with ever increasing difficulty. By going 9 levels into it you probably experience all of it (story and content) once. If you want to go further or experience higher difficulty in this infinite dungeon you have to acquire and start gearing yourself in Infused gear.
I don't see the point in this infused backlash. It exists on its own as a mechanic for specific content. You will be able to choose "Do significantly more damage vs enemy type" Offensive, "Have significantly more resistance vs enemy type" Defensive, or "Do slightly more damage and have slightly more resistance" (Omni). Those type of checks already exist... if you want to do a high level explorable dungeon you need to have level appropriate gear equipped. You shouldn't go into Ghost Eater with level 7 armor/weapons.
If the dungeon is infinite and easy to experience without much infusions (at lower difficulty) everyone is panicking for no reason. If there is a leaderboard/high score/how far did they get mechanic this end game content serves exactly those that it intends to serve : End game players.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Either I'm getting better or my gear is better-suited to low-level areas. I'm in Brisban Wildlands right now with my level 42 human Mesmer and I killed a Champion Golem with only one other Mesmer. Also did a couple events by myself to get Skittsburgh to open up again (too bad no one was around to protect the Skritt King).
Is there a /stuck command in GW2? I teleported myself into walls and stuff while fighting a couple times. Thankfully I teleported back out but it's kind of annoying.
Is there a /stuck command in GW2? I teleported myself into walls and stuff while fighting a couple times. Thankfully I teleported back out but it's kind of annoying.
There is a command but it just submits a report with coordinates to ArenaNet to check out, it doesn't actually teleport you. I get stuck in stuff stealing sometimes and it's quite annoying indeed. Usually either a leap or a shadowstep will get you out.
by the way, I just caught this throwaway from the blog:
huhhhhh what?
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Worst case, you can go to sPvP and walk out back to LA.
The English Conquistador
Member
Thank you for your reply. I went into Metrica Province, but I'll see about Brisbane too since you mentioned it.
I think complimentary was used as "items that compliment the ones already introduced" as opposed to "given to players free of charge".
Maybe there are easy to obtain Ascended items that everyone who participates in can obtain? The back piece perhaps.
Lots of that blog didn't make sense.
Metrica Province is the Asura starting area. I love it. There's a nuclear reactor with a very friendly elemental who spawns sometimes.Thank you for your reply. I went into Metrica Province, but I'll see about Brisbane too since you mentioned it.
It's a 1-15 area, but it's a great zone IMO. Brisban Wildlands is the area where the Sylvari and Asura intersect.
Welp, if they did mean that, they spelled it wrong. Who knows!
Vault 13 Dweller
Neo Member
I'm Happy to see a new set of dungeon armor coming in, from the way they make it sound i think its alright, it will have no effect on WvWvW so let the people get better gear suited for dragon killing or whatever they got planned.
Complistic
Member
Nothing will ever compare to when they announced they were taking the energy bar away.
Energy potions were a good one too.
Wait what was this?
Oops... learned something new.
Maybe they consider upgrading peoples Legendary to Ascended stats as a complimentary service? I would be shocked if they gave away free Ascended or Legendary items.
Complistic
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8OBFlZ9RiU
Spells used to require energy. I think it went from a massive pool of energy that would slowly replenish over time, to a smaller amount of energy that you could just refill by using an energy potion, then they announced they were removing energy potions but speeding up how fast it recharged. Then they announced they were just going to remove it completely and rely on cool downs.
This isn't bad. Reddit is bad. Official forums are worse. No one here touches Guru anyway.
Simplifying, a mana bar and dodge endurance bar rolled into one. Watch my memory be off about this too...
holy jesus fuck I know right
every point lol51 has made is sound and is of a sound mind when you CALM DOWN and think about it.
The English Conquistador
Member
Awesome! I'll go through Metrica then! I haven't seen much of it yet but what I did see I liked. Once that's done, and I'm sure it'll take a little while, I'll get to Brisban Wildlands.
Thanks once again for your great insight.
Don't agree at all about the dungeon difficulty. Once I have a dungeon down pat, it goes smoothly, but its not a cakewalk. I may have the Subject Alpha dance down, but it still tests my reaction time on each run. Your stats never really overwrite the content difficulty because of scaling.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Disappointed that WvW has turned into Zerg War. Also feeling the strain of being a Guardian in a world of Ranged combat
Subject Alpha is one of the most well-tuned, compelling examples of the dynamic combat in GW2, and one of the best dungeon bosses I've encountered in a game. It makes perfect sense to me that they wanted to make sure you fight him multiple times. While at first it was frustrating and overwhelming to face him and learn which abilities he has on which path, now when I die to him I just curse myself for not playing better. I've done the teleporter path version a handful of times without being downed a single time now, feels awesome. It is not easy nor trivial, and really, just a generally good example of sound design with only a few flaws (the run back to alpha on the teleporter path is a little too much negative reinforcement since he resets ).
I would say there are more non-gimmicky, purely skill-based dungeon paths than there are gimmicky ones. That is to say, you do have to learn the encounters over time and execute them properly, and there might be a gimmick room or two, but for the most part you'll be relying on skill, preparation, and teamwork- not a gimmick for the entire dungeon (like SE path 1, or, arguably, AC story with the boulders).
"No challenge" to these dungeons is a remarkable stretch. "Designed to tests stats and builds" is actually borderline incomprehensible to me- I've literally done the same dungeon path twice in a row with the same character using a completely different build. And skill is very nearly always the bottlenecking factor.
).I would say there are more non-gimmicky, purely skill-based dungeon paths than there are gimmicky ones. That is to say, you do have to learn the encounters over time and execute them properly, and there might be a gimmick room or two, but for the most part you'll be relying on skill, preparation, and teamwork- not a gimmick for the entire dungeon (like SE path 1, or, arguably, AC story with the boulders).
"No challenge" to these dungeons is a remarkable stretch. "Designed to tests stats and builds" is actually borderline incomprehensible to me- I've literally done the same dungeon path twice in a row with the same character using a completely different build. And skill is very nearly always the bottlenecking factor.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Subject Alpha is one of the most well-tuned, compelling examples of the dynamic combat in GW2, and one of the best dungeon bosses I've encountered in a game. It makes perfect sense to me that they wanted to make sure you fight him multiple times. While at first it was frustrating and overwhelming to face him and learn which abilities he has on which path, now when I die to him I just curse myself for not playing better. I've done the teleporter path version a handful of times without being downed a single time now, feels awesome. It is not easy nor trivial, and really, just a generally good example of sound design with only a few flaws (the run back to alpha on the teleporter path is a little too much negative reinforcement since he resets
I would say there are more non-gimmicky, purely skill-based dungeon paths than there are gimmicky ones. That is to say, you do have to learn the encounters over time and execute them properly, and there might be a gimmick room or two, but for the most part you'll be relying on skill, preparation, and teamwork- not a gimmick for the entire dungeon (like SE path 1, or, arguably, AC story with the boulders).
"No challenge" to these dungeons is a remarkable stretch. "Designed to tests stats and builds" is actually borderline incomprehensible to me- I've literally done the same dungeon path twice in a row with the same character using a completely different build. And skill is very nearly always the bottlenecking factor.
I have to agree with this. Now that I'm running more dungeons, I've seen the difference first hand. I could spell out my last dungeon run to make it clear, but it's not worth it. Simply put, the skills you choose to bring, along with your personal skill and understanding of your build and how it contributes to the encounter, are the factors that make dungeons fun - NOT the pretty orange or pink text gear.
There's also a lot to be said for being able to swap traits and skills out on the fly. I really enjoyed, after hitting the brick wall that is Lupicus in Arah 4 or 5 times when he switches to the second phase, respeccing all my traits and swapping out a utility skill to focus on pure dual-pistol DPS just for that phase of the fight, even though for the first phase I literally didn't do a single point of damage to him (was doing full support and cleaning up the grubs).
I remember in this thread or the OT1, some people were arguing that this means that you can't "play how you want," because you can't use any weapons/spec/skillset in these encounters and be equally successful. To me, getting into the encounter in the first place is "playing how I want." Adapting and improvising to make the best of a given scenario is kind of when the game's at it's best!
I will grant that I am still a bit peeved I didn't get anything from that Arah run.
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