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Hands-On with PlayStation 3
- Thread starter KyotoMecca
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Agisthos said:
Agreed, if you filter out Kikizo's "educated guesses" and opinion, and simply focus on the plain description of what they saw, the "info" of the article, and the developer comments, it paints a pretty rosy picture.
Developer says:
"Unlike Xbox and PS2, where Xbox had a host of built-in effects that were a generation ahead of PS2, the Xbox 360 and PS3 are same-generation machines. One doesn't have additional effects over the other - 360 can do the same effects, just not as many of them simultaneously and with less geometry [because of the speed difference], but memory bottlenecks can kill part of the PS3 speed advantage anyway... the overall visual difference it makes will depend a lot on the developer's skill, and how much time and money the publisher spends on a game."
""Realistically, as libraries and experience with both machines grow, I think the PS3 will start showing things the 360 will choke at," "
Kikizo interpretation:
"Barely superior".
Heck, I actually found those developer comments surprising (in a good way). Those are some of the most encouraging comments we've had yet from a developer, for those hoping for something more than "barely superior".
I'm very much looking forward to some more "hands on" reports. Not that it will make a difference, it will cause a shitstorm one way or the other.
And it's not like people will ever be convinced one way or the other, even when PS3 is out. Some will say that the PS3 is unbelievably more powerful, while others will say it is barely (if at all) more powerful than the 360.
Thousands of threads with even more bannings and no conclusion. Great!
And it's not like people will ever be convinced one way or the other, even when PS3 is out. Some will say that the PS3 is unbelievably more powerful, while others will say it is barely (if at all) more powerful than the 360.
Thousands of threads with even more bannings and no conclusion. Great!
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Until Sony shows something concrete to the press and public, all of their promises are equivalent to the statements in this article - irrelevant without independent confirmation.
SolidSnakex
Member
DenogginizerOS said:
Didn't you already post this in the thread?
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
MS convinced some 20 million people to buy an xbox. I think a good amount of those bought the machine because of better specs and features (HD, BBA).
If this time Sony is more powerful (even if 'barely superior') I think many of those will go (back) to Sony, especially when those stupid Head to Head comparisions of lame ports will pick the PS3 as the superior versions in most cases.
And yes, the developer comments point at more than 'barely superior'.
If this time Sony is more powerful (even if 'barely superior') I think many of those will go (back) to Sony, especially when those stupid Head to Head comparisions of lame ports will pick the PS3 as the superior versions in most cases.
And yes, the developer comments point at more than 'barely superior'.
hadareud said:
Evidently more geometry, more simultaneous effects, more physics, and the potential to leave another system choking going forward is "barely superior" :lol
Seriously, I appreciate as much as anyone else that it's "just" one developer's comments. But they're the same comments Kikizo draws their interpretation from. There's a definite disconnect there between what the dev said and what Kikizo thinks that means, IMO.
eso76
Member
Uh, nice read, although that could just have been written off some common sense rather than a real hands on. But i'm not doubting kikizo.
It's been stated several times, and besides, it was to expect that the difference between ps3 and xbox360 would be smaller than the difference that between xbox and ps2, it's perfectly normal since there's just a few months between them and a similar technology.
Well, the article makes perfect sense until they use this:
as a fair representation of what we can expect...Well, to me this looks leaps and bounds over stuff like Call of Duty 2 and PDZ so i'm not sure what to think here...
It's been stated several times, and besides, it was to expect that the difference between ps3 and xbox360 would be smaller than the difference that between xbox and ps2, it's perfectly normal since there's just a few months between them and a similar technology.
Well, the article makes perfect sense until they use this:
as a fair representation of what we can expect...Well, to me this looks leaps and bounds over stuff like Call of Duty 2 and PDZ so i'm not sure what to think here...
gofreak said:
I think Kikizos impressions are pretty level headed. You can notice that there's an equal amount of ammunition for both sides.
The problem is that no one will ever fully believe any impressions if they are not what they expected. Even if they experience them first hand, they'll find excuses for why it isn't what they expected.
hadareud said:
I'd agree the article doesn't go overboard on either side, but some of the comments, like that discussed above, are pretty questionable. It seems also they were holding this up against things like "2x more powerful than 360" and "1080p", or the expectation of a PS2-Xbox gap - stuff most people, here at least, would not have paid much attention to.
I think most of the "ammunition" given to one camp comes purely out of Kikizo's own opinion and guesswork, whilst what's actually said by the developers and the straight-up description of what was seen slightly works against that. Or more than slightly, as above.
Put it this way, if someone here posted last week that they reckoned PS3 games would boast more geometry, more effects, and had likely would in the longer run do things that would leave 360 struggling, that person would have been considered - by some at least - to be pretty optimistic, or clueless...to put it nicely. Yet Kikizo takes all that as barely scraping superiority? One is left wondering what they were expecting.
eso76 said:Uh, nice read, although that could just have been written off some common sense rather than a real hands on. But i'm not doubting kikizo.
It's been stated several times, and besides, it was to expect that the difference between ps3 and xbox360 would be smaller than the difference that between xbox and ps2, it's perfectly normal since there's just a few months between them and a similar technology.
Well, the article makes perfect sense until they use this:
as a fair representation of what we can expect...Well, to me this looks leaps and bounds over stuff like Call of Duty 2 and PDZ so i'm not sure what to think here...
That's not even fair. For one, neither was built ground up for the 360. CoD2 is just a high end PC game port, which, although it does look fine, isn't pushing any limits, and PD0, well, nobody's claiming it looks great.
Comparing the worst of one system to the best/better of another isn't fair and doesn't work.
SolidSnakex
Member
SnakeXs said:
The worst? Weren't people constnatly praising how CoD2 looks?
I think Rare's first game build from ground up for x360 will make PDZ look like a generation behind and will come close to some of the more impressive PS3 stuff (lets just hope that game(s) wont end up on the next generation of hardware).
I think PDZ (and most 360 stuff) isnt an indication of how good nextgen games can look like, but the short time it took them to make it at least look acceptable is a good indication of the untapped power.
I think PDZ (and most 360 stuff) isnt an indication of how good nextgen games can look like, but the short time it took them to make it at least look acceptable is a good indication of the untapped power.
monkeymagic
Banned
Twix said:
Don't mind him - he's an XBox fanboy.
They happily accept fact twisting now that MS has done it numerous times with X360.
eso76
Member
SnakeXs said:
No, it's not fair you're right, in fact, what i'm saying is not "i doubt X360 can achieve these visuals" (if you concentrate all geometry PGR3 uses for cars and scenery in a scene like the one depicted here you may very well obtain something like this or better)
in fact, for all i know, killing zone could be a multiplatform title and these could even be X360 shots...
Just, this looks much better than the fps' i've seen for x360 so far. Which of course is not really indicative of what an x360 could do: unfortunately though, it is indicative of what X360 actually does at the moment.
I guess i'm just saying that i'm very disappointed with the approach devs are using with X360. Most games are rather underwhelming technically speaking; i still see very low res textures, low res shadow maps, sometimes marginally better models...i have to go back to PGR3 and fight night 3 demo from time to time to reassure myself that these consoles are capable of much more
Servizio
I don't really need a tag, but I figured I'd get one to make people jealous. Is it working?
So, I called the 1-800-something-SONY number today about getting my DREing PS2 fixed for free, but apparently now they charge $45 plus whatever it costs you to ship a PS2, in order to get a refurb unit. I knew I should have jumped on the free deal when they offered it. Oh well.
Anyway, the nice lady on the phone said the PS3 looked like it was going to launch at the end of March.
Aren't support line people funny?
Anyway, the nice lady on the phone said the PS3 looked like it was going to launch at the end of March.
Aren't support line people funny?
sonycowboy
Member
gofreak said:
Well,
We've now gotten more than a few folks basically saying:
1) 360 & PS3 will be very close to each other for most games.
2) They are pretty much in the same ballpark graphically.
3) The CELL affords some nice computational horsepower that will allow for more / better interactions, but will be a pain to code well.
4) The PS3 will show some graphical superiority, but it could take years.
Given that Kojima said that MGS4 could be done on the 360, I have to say that I'm a little disappointed in Next Gen. If the PS3 can only do a little better than COD 2 / PGR 3 then all of the pie in the sky hopes that people had for next gen can be shelved. Those two games in particular, while they look pretty good are MUCH LOWER quality than what I had hoped next-gen would be. PGR 3 in particular has aliasing / shimmering / jaggies, which I had hoped would be completely gone this gen.
So, I think it's probably fair to say that the system wars WILL NOT be won on the basis of system horsepower. Of course, that's been true every generation, so it's not a huge surprise, other than people hoping that the PS3 would be head and shoulders above the 360.
Microsoft has some big advantages with services, that is Xbox Live and the media integration stuff, as well as developer tools. Sony seems to be going farther than we thought in the services area, with a real online system, monster media integration stuff as well, along with PSP, Blu-Ray to boot.
But, in the end, I think it'll be all about the exclusive software as well as how well each system is marketed and managed.
The PS3 could bulldoze the Xbox 360 with hype, some huge releases, and great value pricing. But, I don't honestly expect that. I expect the PS3 to sell less than the PS2 and the 360 to sell twice as well as the original Xbox.
sonycowboy said:
Your main flaw is thinking that CoD2/PGR3 are as good as it gets. PGR3 is just a gussied up PGR2, which was rushed. That's why it's 30fps, that's why it has the AA (no tiling) "problems".
CoD2 is just a PC port. Wasn't built for 360, wasn't built to be next gen. Hell, it doesn't have any physics going on at all. That said, I don't mind at all, it still rules.
This is very basic new gen. stuff, on top of MS rushing some "could be" products, and allowing outright garbage (Activision, I'm looking at you) to be on the system. These consoles have a ton of untapped power, and it's just gonn atake a bit of time, and some capable developers, to use it all, both in helping forge genres forward, and in simply making things look good.
It's all about devs, it's all about what they want to do. There will be last-gen + kinda pretty visuals titles, and there will be games that make us say wow (no pun intended).
However, it's Sony's battle to lose. They have mindshare. Live is a huge ace, but it's only known to people who have used it. Your average PS2 gamer, even one who's played online, is perfectly fine with it, and just doesn't know what Live offers.
Like usual, though, it's all about software. Who knows what the next Halo/GTA shall be, and what impact those, pricing, timing, supply, economies, Blu-Ray, and Nintendo (Not fighting for first, but they still have market impact) will make.
They should start to do that, Japanese sales are only half of xbox 1, US sales are a third of xbox 1 (first year). I know one reason is the production/shipping problems, but Q1/Q2 sure wont make up for that slow start. And with two consoles competing after that it will be very hard to gain sales-speed.sonycowboy said:
Better games will help and as I already said, I am sure quality will increase a lot, dont be so pessimistic about next gen. Three cores are harder to handle than one and I am under the impression the games were even more rushed than on xbox. Compared to xbox 1 and Halo I think there is much more untapped power left. And PS3 games might take the same learning curve PS2 games did with Killzone trailer quality possible at some (maybe late) point of its lifetime.
Deg said:
Deg, I know you love stalking me, but if you're gonna do so at least try.
I speak from experience. Between people I know, and having worked retail.
People who have used Live can't stand PS2's online. People who strictly play on PS2 don't see what the big deal is.
sonycowboy said:
The assumption the 360 will do better than the original Xbox always puzzles me. And to sell twice as much is a HUGE deal! What's that, up to 40 million from 20 million?
For that to happen, something quite significant would have to change from the Xbox/PS2/GC situation. And I just don't see what this is.
360 has lost the power advantage (atleast in perception anyway)
360 can't be modded (the people I know with an Xbox all have modded ones, and only one of them has gone and got a 360)
360 will have value-perception problems if HD movie sales take off
360 will lose the Live advantage if the rumours about Sony's online plans are true
And it's still showing no signs of making a break-through in Japan, selling half as well as before.
So where is it going to pick-up an extra 20 million customers from? If anything it's selling to a subset of the original Xbox fanbase. Nintendo I can see picking up marketshare, especially in Japan. I think Microsoft could find it more difficult to grow theirs though.
About the article I think it's definetly interesting,at least it gives the idea that PS3 launch titles will look really good but it's clearly too speculative at the moment.Also we don't know who are the developers of the games they 'tested'.Are they games made by high profile developers or not?That changes things a lot.
Nash said:
1) Likely true. Depends who you ask. Depends on what PS3 delivers. Right now the average person either has no clue, thinks PS3 is 745943534X better, or thinks it's out in Japan already. Group 1 could be wowed by the first shiny pretty title they see, Group 2 will either stake so much in their belief that Sony is way stronger and act upon it, or be shocked if it's not what they hoped (As many have with 360/next-gen in general because of 360), and Group 3... :lol .
2) PS2 couldn't be modded much at all, then again within 4 months of it's release.
3) Yes and no. To the people HD matters to, possible, but next gen DVDs and DVDs situation is far too different. The main reason for DVDs was it's jump from VHS. Too many things to list. All next-gen DVDs offer is HD. Too few have them for it too matter right now, and those on the fence, well, small market.
4) Huge, ginourmous if.
5) Very true. Doesn't harm the US market, though. Big Japanese titles tend to not be multiconsole, so even if MS had a foot in Japan, it wouldn't bring more titles to it anyways.
SolidSnakex
Member
Elios83 said:
They said 1 of them was. But i'd prefer to know whether or not the games they were playing were exclusive or some multiplatform games. That'd make a big difference.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
SolidSnakex said:
Perhaps they wanted to share this with all of us and a nasty little NDA from Sony that continues to keep threads like this going slammed the door. And the reason I reposted about Sony saying something official is because that is the root problem. The dangling carrot is beginning to rot.
Yeah, one of the biggest mistakes Microsoft made, it make it look as if they dont trust the format they are supporting.Nash said:
With PS3 supporting the BluRay format and with BlueRay supporting the PS3 in return it is a perfect symbiosis.
I cant believe how the HD-DVD consortium hadnt seen the marketing power of the x360 supporting the format.
SolidSnakex
Member
DenogginizerOS said:
I don't see how a NDA could get in the way, I mean they don't even disclose any of the devs names or hint at what the games are, so saying if they're exclusive or multiplatform wouldn't really say anything.
sonycowboy
Member
SnakeXs said:
But, I've heard mostly praise for these two games graphically. People say they are "floored" by them and the previews of upcoming games say things like "this is up there with COD2 as an outstanding graphical acheievement."
Hasn't the 360 launch been praised as "the best of all time" by some, even understanding that they are port heavy?
Gears of War is VERY impressive to me, but otherwise any playable game I've seen for next gen is below what I thought this gen might bring, even allowing for 1st generation games. The hope is, of course, that the absolute last minute dev kits on both sides has conspired to inhibit devs from getting true next gen games out.
That, or, we really are seeing that High Definition won't do as much for gaming as what the last generation was able to do over the PSX/N64 days.
sonycowboy said:
Well, you've heard it from idiots. PGR3 looks ok, but to me the world seems dead, sterile, and (not to start a ruckus) 30fps alone negates any technical achievements it has.
CoD2 is far from impressive. Is it ugly? No. But it's just ok models in a decently detailed world. Nothing jaw dropping, no physics, no incredible AI. It does run at 30fps, which is a plus, but as before that isn't enough to make it some amazing feat. To reiterate, all that said, I still love it.
360 launch had the potential to be the best launch ever. Between flops (PD0), and delayed titles (DOA4, Oblivion), on top of other non-game related problems, it's far from it. Again, only Xbots hold to that.
GoW does look good, I just hope it delivers gameplay wise. Plus the art sucks. But, I'm sorry to hear that. I guess I'm with y ou on that, though. I blame myself, and both MS and Sony for it, though. Myself for what expectations I had, Sony for painting this picture, and MS for showing what Next-Gen shoudn't be but touting it so. I have full faith in good developers and minds out there to put the consoles to good use, though. It's just gonna take time.
And, HD is a huge thing. But that's not what next-gen is. It's just a plus.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
SolidSnakex said:
Email the editor and ask.
High Definition of course does not make games better, just higher defined. And it brings up the fillrate needed by factor 3, which caused some problems first gen.sonycowboy said:
But see PDz, they brought that game from butt ugly to 'acceptable' in only some month mostly by slapping effects, better lighting and high res textures on it. Imagine they do the same for the geometry, animation, AI and physics (yes the power to do that is there) and you get a game that really feels next gen.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
Bebpo said:
It does make sense if 90% of potential Revolution owners don't have or care about HDTV.
monkeymagic said:
Or the step?
E3 will finally reveal where these consoles stand graphics-wise. I personally cannot wait to get the graphics issue out of the way and actually focus on the games, the controllers, the potential of these machines over the next 5 years etc.
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