Haters Stay Out! - Kanye West's VH1 Storytellers Discussion

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Ashhong

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is the title too much? no chance in hell it will stop the haters but i thought id try. i know there are some fans here, and i wanted to talk about his VH1 Storytellers performances without having to deal with the bullshit of that Radiohead diss thread.

http://www.vh1.com/video/play.jhtml?id=1606020&vid=345708

You can watch all of the recorded performances there, in ok quality. Apparently he did an off camera performance of Street Lights that was amazing though. He always amazes me with his live performances. They almost always sound different, and only get better every time.

The guitar in Love Lockdown's chorus is great, and really adds an extra layer to the already dark and emotional song. Robocop's extra little melody is also pretty awesome. And I can't leave out the strings in See You In My Nightmares.

Even if you only like his songs a little bit, or are a hater, check out the videos. I'd be interested in hearing someone's opinion on why the videos suck. I can see why people dont like his music or his personality, but I cant see how anybody can hate on his performances (not talking about the vocal quality itself, which I admit can sometimes be off). He cares about his performance and the experience for the audience. You could see it on his tour and you can see it here.

Discuss?
 
What about this is good in any way, unless your a 10 year old girl who thinks OMG is a real word? Singing is horrible, his songs have the emotional depth of a hallmark card, and the dude conveys zero emotion, just looks nowhere behind sunglasses and dances like an awkward teen doing their first show. Anyone with money can pay for a light show...

AND I watched those hoping to be proven wrong. I just don't get Kanye. Dude used to make nice beats, though.
 
TheHeretic said:
Hes atrocious live, to be honest, and this is from someone who loved 808.
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do you mean in general or these videos. because his glow in the dark tour was fantastic.

666 said:
What about this is good in any way, unless your a 10 year old girl who thinks OMG is a real word? Singing is horrible, his songs have the emotional depth of a hallmark card, and the dude conveys zero emotion, just looks nowhere behind sunglasses and dances like an awkward teen doing their first show. Anyone with money can pay for a light show...

AND I watched those hoping to be proven wrong. I just don't get Kanye. Dude used to make nice beats, though.
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how does liking his performances relate to being a 10 year old girl in any way? almost every part of your post is complete fud. i know i wanted opinions and everything but really. plenty of artists sing behind sunglasses and display emotion, kanye is one of them. you have to actually listen to get the emotion and not just know what you see. im sure im right in assuming you hate his new music. if so you wouldnt be able to hear what i hear i guess.

its not the light show specifically, since i dont think that was even designed by kanye. its just the overall atmosphere of his performances. the addition of a live orchestra/band. most people see a 1 man performance, but i see a show.

also, ignore the storytelling parts, even i found those a bit awkward. too rehearsed and weird how he tries to go with the beat.
 
666 said:
What about this is good in any way, unless your a 10 year old girl who thinks OMG is a real word? Singing is horrible, his songs have the emotional depth of a hallmark card, and the dude conveys zero emotion, just looks nowhere behind sunglasses and dances like an awkward teen doing their first show. Anyone with money can pay for a light show...

AND I watched those hoping to be proven wrong. I just don't get Kanye. Dude used to make nice beats, though.
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Damn, dude.
 
Can't watch that outside of the US but from what I've seen, I'm guessing I agree with 666. If you like that stuff though then fuck, who the hell cares what I think. I mean, I'm looking forward to the new Blink 182 album so what do I know.
 
Mash said:
Can't watch that outside of the US but from what I've seen, I'm guessing I agree with 666. If you like that stuff though then fuck, who the hell cares what I think. I mean, I'm looking forward to the new Blink 182 album so what do I know.
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im looking forward to the new blink album too lol, so its all good. i respect peoples opinions to a point and am pretty open minded...but sometimes i just dont see what people hate. maybe its his use of strings. im a sucker for strings in "mainstream" songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky7_TH7nCcw

you can youtube most of his performances. and i think i expressed myself wrong. its not really his performance that impressed me so much. it was more the arrangements of his songs. i was already a big fan of the songs, but he only made them better.
 
I don't know, I don't want to offend, and go for your life if you love him, rip me to shreds, but he's as shallow as an empty pond. I don't want to just be a 'hater', I think the guy did have talent, he's just squandered it on a distorted ego and aspirations to be a respected songwriter and artist in a realm he just can't use his bravado to bluff his way through. I love hip hop, be it political, party, ridiculous, heartfelt or whatever, as long as it's TRUELY sincere. I don't think Kanye understands what true sincerity feels like enough to convey it in a song. Back to dropping beats, Mr West.
 
Ashhong said:
im looking forward to the new blink album too lol, so its all good. i respect peoples opinions to a point and am pretty open minded...but sometimes i just dont see what people hate. maybe its his use of strings. im a sucker for strings in "mainstream" songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky7_TH7nCcw

you can youtube most of his performances. and i think i expressed myself wrong. its not really his performance that impressed me so much. it was more the arrangements of his songs. i was already a big fan of the songs, but he only made them better.
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It's not the strings, it's not the arrangements, it's not the music, it's Kanye. Maybe if someone else sang and wrote lyrics on these songs they'd come to life for me instead of looking like an elaborate joke i'm waiting for the reveal on.

Ashhong said:
how does liking his performances relate to being a 10 year old girl in any way?
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Just trying to accentuate the fact I can't find any depth on any level to the performance, lyrics or singing.
 
666 said:
I don't know, I don't want to offend, and go for your life if you love him, rip me to shreds, but he's as shallow as an empty pond. I don't want to just be a 'hater', I think the guy did have talent, he's just squandered it on a distorted ego and aspirations to be a respected songwriter and artist in a realm he just can't use his bravado to bluff his way through. I love hip hop, be it political, party, ridiculous, heartfelt or whatever, as long as it's TRUELY sincere. I don't think Kanye understands what true sincerity feels like enough to convey it in a song. Back to dropping beats, Mr West.
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i know a lot of people hate his ego, but for the most part hes trying not to be as bad. hes definitely come a long way. at least as far as mainstream hiphop goes, to me kanye is at the top of the list when it comes to his talent as both a writer and a producer. but im not sure i get your last point. kanye has always been sincere in every song and speaks what he feels. thats wat sets him apart from the rest.
 
Ashhong said:
i know a lot of people hate his ego, but for the most part hes trying not to be as bad. hes definitely come a long way. at least as far as mainstream hiphop goes, to me kanye is at the top of the list when it comes to his talent as both a writer and a producer. but im not sure i get your last point. kanye has always been sincere in every song and speaks what he feels. thats wat sets him apart from the rest.
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I guess questioning his 'sincerity' may be off mark, I actually don't question his belief in what he's doing, it's just that if this is him putting his heart on his sleeve and his soul on display, then it's embarrassingly lacking, which makes his sincerity seem pointless, if that makes any sense.

I'm sorry, I don't want to mess up your thread with negativity towards someone you really like, i'm not deliberately trolling just to anger you or anything, just trying to shed light on why I, and perhaps some others 'hate' on Kanye.
 
666 said:
I guess questioning his 'sincerity' may be off mark, I actually don't question his belief in what he's doing, it's just that if this is him putting his heart on his sleeve and his soul on display, then it's embarrassingly lacking.

I'm sorry, I don't want to mess up your thread with negativity towards someone you really like, i'm not deliberately trolling just to anger you or anything, just trying to shed light on why I, and perhaps some others 'hate' on Kanye.
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no its fine, i was curious to see what people thought of it anyway. i can see you are one of those people that hate him as a person, which i guess i can understand. but like i said the storytelling moments in this are pretty bad.

i think the most personal moment comes from the second half of the heartless video where he sings Pinnochio Story which was a freestyle from one of his concerts. not the full song, but still good.
 
I'm not a hater of Kanye, I just hate his singing and the lyrical direction 808's took, and that's why I dislike the singing live tracks.
 
thats what the autotuning is for :lol im so used to these songs i dont mind his singing at all.

Arcipello: i was also let down by his stories. i dont know if you ever watched it, but he did a similar style show on MTV i think around the time of late registration. now that one had some good stories.
 
TheHeretic said:
Hes atrocious live, to be honest, and this is from someone who loved 808.
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Lollapalooza 08 says otherwise. Fucking AWESOME. Really hope he comes back to Chicago for an 808s tour..
 
Meier said:
Lollapalooza 08 says otherwise. Fucking AWESOME. Really hope he comes back to Chicago for an 808s tour..
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seriously...thats like asking if uh..i cant think of a comparable example. but of course he'll go to his hometown. it will probably be the best one

and i dont think kanye was in control of the set or lights. i think i remember seeing credits for the design go to somebody else at the end of the show. he could have had some input though, but he does indeed love daft punk.
 
Not trying to hate too hard. But I just don't get Kanye. I feel like he's pop-art that's trying to present itself as high art. Every time I listen to him I go in expecting some great artistic expression, but I come out feeling empty.
 
genjiZERO said:
Not trying to hate too hard. But I just don't get Kanye. I feel like he's pop-art that's trying to present itself as high art. Every time I listen to him I go in expecting some great artistic expression, but I come out feeling empty.
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I never thought of Kanye's music as great art or anything, I just like him because he makes music that I enjoy listening too. There may not be anything to analyze there, but I don't think that's really a bad thing.
 
I've only seen a preview, but I love that his idea of an intimate performance involves a million dollar video screen and an elevated stage. For whatever reason I thought storytellers was supposed to be like MTV unplugged was back in the day. Not that I hold it against him - it's just funny that there is no dropping the act for kanye.
 
genjiZERO said:
Not trying to hate too hard. But I just don't get Kanye. I feel like he's pop-art that's trying to present itself as high art. Every time I listen to him I go in expecting some great artistic expression, but I come out feeling empty.
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hm, are you one of those listeners that focus solely on the lyrics and how its said? im more of an instrumental person and love hearing all of the different things he puts into his songs. flashing lights is a good example of a great piece of musical art imo.

Undeux said:
I've only seen a preview, but I love that his idea of an intimate performance involves a million dollar video screen and an elevated stage. For whatever reason I thought storytellers was supposed to be like MTV unplugged was back in the day. Not that I hold it against him - it's just funny that there is no dropping the act for kanye.
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pretty sure its VH1's set. even if it isnt, its pretty damn intimate. should he be singing in the middle of the crowd like a giant cumbaya? the only difference between this and the mtv one is that the crowd isnt surrounding him, and that he has a fancy light show going on.
 
He's a rapper, he's no singer. Anyone who relies on a vocalizer, autotune, whatever is going to really sound like shit. Looks like VH1 let his real voice leak through to spite him?
 
half a moon said:
He's a rapper, he's no singer. Anyone who relies on a vocalizer, autotune, whatever is going to really sound like shit. Looks like VH1 let his real voice leak through to spite him?
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i thought it was the perfect amount. ive heard his performances with too much autotune and it was bad, as were the ones with none. obviously if you dont like his singing on 808s ur not going to like it live
 
Ashhong said:
i thought it was the perfect amount. ive heard his performances with too much autotune and it was bad, as were the ones with none. obviously if you dont like his singing on 808s ur not going to like it live
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What? Every song I heard off of 808 uses some kind of voice modification(that sounds good). And I'm sure raw voice would sound shitty (like Love Overload above. It just sounds horrible.).

But, I didn't realize they were more videos to this.

Edit: After skimming through them to me it seems they cut down on the voice modification to let his real voice leak through. But the end result seems too muffled in my opinion. The compressed audio doesn't help either. I'd have to see him preform the same song live in different ways. I think the stage and lights and etc look good though. I love the strings.
 
Ashhong said:
hm, are you one of those listeners that focus solely on the lyrics and how its said? im more of an instrumental person and love hearing all of the different things he puts into his songs. flashing lights is a good example of a great piece of musical art imo.
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Depends. For hip hop I think lyrics are really important because of the parameters of the style. However, I also take the fill picture into account when I critique the artistry. I just feel that for DJ'd music there are hundreds of examples of people who do it much better, but that Kanye gets all the credit and respect. To use a really snobby and obscure art reference. I feel that Kanye is the Renoir of hip hop.
 
genjiZERO said:
Depends. For hip hop I think lyrics are really important because of the parameters of the style. However, I also take the fill picture into account when I critique the artistry. I just feel that for DJ'd music there are hundreds of examples of people who do it much better, but that Kanye gets all the credit and respect. To use a really snobby and obscure art reference. I feel that Kanye is the Renoir of hip hop.
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no idea who Renoir is. do you have an example of a mainstream artist who does it better? and i mean the whole package. write, rap, produce? going through it one at a time, and again, mainstream wise, most hip hop artists these days have such bad lyrics and meanings its embarassing, which makes kanye stands out. id put lupe and common above him though. rapping he definitely isnt the best at. he may not excel at just one thing (except producing imo) but as a whole theres not many better.
 
Ashhong said:
no idea who Renoir is. do you have an example of a mainstream artist who does it better? and i mean the whole package. write, rap, produce? going through it one at a time, and again, mainstream wise, most hip hop artists these days have such bad lyrics and meanings its embarassing, which makes kanye stands out. id put lupe and common above him though. rapping he definitely isnt the best at. he may not excel at just one thing (except producing imo) but as a whole theres not many better.
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Mainstream, no (maybe not?). Not to sound pedantic, but I'm not really sure what mainstream is. To use a Kanye sample, does Daft Punk count as mainstream? IMO most modern rap music is atrocious. I do agree that he's a good producer though; I like the work he's done with Nas.

In case you are at all interested Renoir is a famous French Impressionist painter (same time as Monet). Although he is quite loved by the wider public for his paintings of nude frolicking girls, he is much maligned by art historians for being insincere and pandering to the public.
 
bump for possible fans out there :lol i feel semi alone

apparently he also did paranoid, but vh1 didnt put it in. bastards. paranoid and street lights would have been awesome. and the band played welcome to heartbreak as he left the stage.
 
Can we stop calling people who don't like stuff "haters." I'm one of the bigger Kanye fans here, but I'm also one of the biggest critics. His new album is a joke. If that makes me a "hater" whatever
 
I've not been able to get into 808 at all..


Kanye was amazing when I saw him on the GLOW tour though.
Probably top 5 for concerts ive ever seen.
 
Kanye and Amber
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