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Have we reached the environmental end-game?

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Phoenix

Member
An unexplained and unprecedented rise in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere two years running has raised fears that the world may be on the brink of runaway global warming.
Scientists are baffled why the quantity of the main greenhouse gas has leapt in a two-year period and are concerned that the Earth's natural systems are no longer able to absorb as much as in the past.

The findings will be discussed tomorrow by the government's chief scientist, Dr David King, at the annual Greenpeace business lecture.

Measurements of CO2 in the atmosphere have been continuous for almost 50 years at Mauna Loa Observatory, 12,000ft up a mountain in Hawaii, regarded as far enough away from any carbon dioxide source to be a reliable measuring point.

In recent decades CO2 increased on average by 1.5 parts per million (ppm) a year because of the amount of oil, coal and gas burnt, but has now jumped to more than 2 ppm in 2002 and 2003.

Above or below average rises in CO2 levels in the atmosphere have been explained in the past by natural events.

When the Pacific warms up during El Niño - a disruptive weather pattern caused by weakening trade winds - the amount of carbon dioxide rises dramatically because warm oceans emit CO2 rather than absorb it.

But scientists are puzzled because over the past two years, when the increases have been 2.08 ppm and 2.54 ppm respectively, there has been no El Niño.


Considerably more information here


Makes you wonder about some of the posts I've put up about the US military planners drafting war fighting plans related to climate change and resource distribution in the 'post change' world.

One thing is certain... a large environmental change will bring about a large geo-economic change and that has always brought about conflict each and every time.
 

alejob

Member
Winter is comming so I say hooooraaaay! For global warming!


Seriously, I'm sorta an environmentalist so vote Kerry! Viva el Kyoto treaty!
 

Koshiro

Member
Seth C said:
Maybe I'm crazy, but I wouldn't really be too sad to see a global disaster. Sounds exciting.
Just no.


Really, it's America that's assing things up (as well as developing nations which somehow includes China). If America would sign up to Kyoto, we'd at least be making minimal progress, as it is we're making none. I know Kyoto is going ahead now that Russia has signed on, but America is the World's biggest polluter. Time to lose the fat-ass cars guys.
 

AntoneM

Member
Koshiro said:
Just no.


Really, it's America that's assing things up (as well as developing nations which somehow includes China). If America would sign up to Kyoto, we'd at least be making minimal progress, as it is we're making none. I know Kyoto is going ahead now that Russia has signed on, but America is the World's biggest polluter. Time to lose the fat-ass cars guys.

do you know where I can find info on this, I tried the UN's site but couldn't find anything. I'm a sucker for demographic info and I really would like to see a breakdown of who is polluting what and by how much.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Global warming is a bit of a bastard, but as of yet it's left chance untouched.

So what you're saying is that the Earth is getting warmer, we just can't measure it? Global warming is a tricky motherfucker indeed.
 

Phoenix

Member
Global warming != "its getting hotter outside". By the time that happens, we're all quite screwed. Global warming will start as an overtrap of greenhouse gasses that will melt the caps and cause ecological change long before any significant temperature change. These are all catalysts to the temperature of the planet going up, but by the time the planet is consistently like 5 degrees hotter we can start kissing our asses goodbye.

Local temperature changes are not a good measure of global warming (which in itself is a bad term until the end stage) as there are other environmental factors that can affect local temperature.
 

AntoneM

Member
Manabanana said:
How would the ice caps melt without a temperature change?

What I'm getting at is global warming is only theory.

so is much of the science behind nuclear weapons but the effect is very real.
 
Bush lowering environmental regulations on big industry really has nothing to with this. It's the fucking democrats ruining our environment. Only if they would pass Bush's energy plan!
 

Phoenix

Member
Manabanana said:
How would the ice caps melt without a temperature change?

What I'm getting at is global warming is only theory.

The water temperature of the oceans changes which causes the transatlantic current to transfer heat north which melts the caps. The earth pretty much has a mechanism for regulating its own temperature - the ocean currents can easily be described as a type of circulatory system. As the oceans heat we get two things - worse more sever weather (like hurricanes as they pick up increasingly warmer water as strength) and melting polar ice caps. While the entire system is complicated, its fairly straightforward for laymen to understand.

Yes global waming is a theory, just like the theory of relativity - however through observations we can see how real things are and the more we observe the system the more we are starting to realize that we may have a problem. In order to prove it, we'd have to wait until the earth is nice a toasty and we'd be unable to do anything about it. We can't wait for this one to be provable before we take reasonable steps to do something smart about it.
 
Manabanana said:
So what you're saying is that the Earth is getting warmer, we just can't measure it? Global warming is a tricky motherfucker indeed.
My point is, there are ALWAYS fluctuations of temperature from year to year. The entire world could have a massive 1 degree average temperature increase in a single year, and Minneapolis in particular could still be colder than the year before.
 

Phoenix

Member
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Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Anytime somebody says "it's just a theory" when referring to a scientific theory, I get a mild urge to ban. :p
 
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