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[Gentle Rodriguez]

If only Doomhammer damage stopped at 10 damage like Pyroblast....

And you know, cost 10 mana.

Just change rockbiter so it can't stack with weapons, that interaction is broken. So if you rockbiter while you have doomhammer equipped it just sets your attack to 3. Maybe this kills doomhammer but that weapon is fucking stupid anyway.

 

[Dahbomb]

Just change rockbiter so it can't stack with weapons, that interaction is broken. So if you rockbiter while you have doomhammer equipped it just sets your attack to 3. Maybe this kills doomhammer but that weapon is fucking stupid anyway.

That's what I have been saying.

Rockbiter by itself is fine.

Doomhammer by itself is fine.

Those two together are not fine and never have been fine.


Just make it so that Rockbiter replaces your weapon if you try to use it on yourself.

 

[fertygo]

"Change your Character attack this turn to 3"

this is fine

 

[ZealousD]

Just change rockbiter so it can't stack with weapons, that interaction is broken. So if you rockbiter while you have doomhammer equipped it just sets your attack to 3. Maybe this kills doomhammer but that weapon is fucking stupid anyway.

The card is called rockbiter weapon. Making it not work with weapons is stupid in its own way.

An interesting nerf might be to make it so that it only stacks with weapons. Then it works more like a situational deadly poison. Removing its utility as a general purpose removal or minion buff could cut its consistency enough that people start cutting it.

Just make it so that Rockbiter replaces your weapon if you try to use it on yourself.

You mentioned this nerf on stream and I've decided I don't like it. That's not really an elegant nerf. Each time I try to imagine the card text it turns into a word salad.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Can confirm that N'Zoth Control Paladin is bonkers good. My Ragnaros, Lightlord also single-handedly won me a game against a priest that went to fatigue. Really fun deck to play too.

packing 2 healbots, one on a stick and a reno jackson helps

 

[Apathy]

The card is called rockbiter weapon. Making it not work with weapons is stupid in its own way.

An interesting nerf might be to make it so that it only stacks with weapons. Then it works more like a situational deadly poison. Cutting its utility as a general purpose removal could cut its consistency enough that people start cutting it.

Or for it to just work on one swing

 

[thekillermuffin]

packing 2 healbots, one on a stick and a reno jackson helps

I didn't go with with Reno, so I could double up on Twilight Summoners and AOE spells. I use Lightlord, Lay on Hands, and Forbidden Healing x2 for heals.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

It would just be better if they removed the overload and made it a 7 cost. Yeah, it wouldn't be as good, but it could still be used as a finisher without coming out on turn 5 for aggro.

Anyway, thinking about crafting N'Zoth for Raptor Rogue. Worth it?

 

[Apathy]

I didn't go with with Reno, so I could double up on Twilight Summoners and AOE spells. I use Lightlord, Lay on Hands, and Forbidden Healing x2 for heals.

Think it's a joke about the healing a paladin can do now

 

[ZealousD]

Or for it to just work on one swing

I don't like that nerf for the same reason I don't like Dahbomb's. That's a card text clusterfuck by Hearthstone standards.

 

[Dahbomb]

The fact that it's Rockbiter weapon is exactly why it shouldn't work on weapons. Imagine if Warriors could stack weapons by putting one on top of each other. Right now they can only use Heroic Strike but they can't also play Heroic Strike on a minion so it's balanced.


Text is simple: "Equip a 3/1 Rockbiter or give a minion +3 attack until end of turn"

Wow that complexity. Not like you need 100 tweets just to explain what it can and can't do.

 

[ZealousD]

The fact that it's Rockbiter weapon is exactly why it shouldn't work on weapons.

Rockbiter Weapon in WoW was a spell that applied an effect to your weapon. It was not a weapon itself. It's not a weapon called Rockbiter.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

I don't like that nerf for the same reason I don't like Dahbomb's. That's a card text clusterfuck by Hearthstone standards.

Balance is a bit more important than worrying about unclear card text, Rockbiter Weapon is broken in one specific case only and they need to remove that from the game. Removing everything else and keeping only what makes the card stupid seems counter-intuitive to me, even though I do understand that a card should keep it's strengths, that's why I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed to be used on your hero.

 

[Karsticles]

Rockbiter Weapon in WoW was a spell that applied an effect to your weapon. It was not a weapon itself. It's not a weapon called Rockbiter.

Didn't Rockbiter Weapon and Windfury conflict in WoW? Maybe that's the solution: if you Rockbiter Doomhammer, you don't get Windfury that turn.

 

[Haly]

Doomhammer 5
Overload 2
When you attack, you have a 50% chance to attack again this turn (happens only once).
2/8

Or just remove windfury entirely.

Doomhammer 5
Overload 1
When you attack, deal 2 damage to a random enemy and -1 durability.
2/8

Personally I like the Rockbiter/Doomhammer interaction. People only care about it now because Shaman is playable.

OTK warrior pops up, people complain about warrior OTK, it gets nerfed
Miracle becomes dominant, people complain about shadowstep leeroy, it gets nerfed (along with Handlock Leeroy combo)
Patron becomes dominant, people complain about OTK, it gets nerfed
Druid becomes dominant, people complain about OTK, it gets nerfed
Shaman becomes dominant, people complain, ???, gets nerfed a year later probably

OTKs that have been ignored, by the community or by Blizzard:
Raging Worgen OTK (it was never playable)
Anyfin OTK (Secretdin was just better, and it disappeared with rotation)
Freeze (probably going to be nerfed eventually, and it's not really a OTK, the problem is Ice Block and the fact that it's basically a free turn you can bank)
Malyrogue (never dominant, always a inferior Miracle)
Malylock (never dominant, tier 3 at best)

You nerf Doomhammer/Rockbiter and people will move onto the next big burst damage combo, or maybe go back to complaining about Hunter. Or maybe Al'akir Rockbiter. There's probably other HUGE DAMAGE burst combos just waiting for their class to get buffed so they can shine. It's a never ending game of whack-a-mole, until you remove all spells or synergies or charges from the game.

The better solution is to nerf Aggro Shaman slow down the meta some more, and buff Control Shaman.

 

[jgminto]

I've never had that much of a problem with Rockbiter+Doomhammer. Adjusting the mana/overload ratio on Doomhammer would probably help though, being able to get it out on Turn 5 and whittle down your opponent before finishing them off with Rockbiter is what makes it so amazing in Aggro Shaman.

 

[ZealousD]

Balance is a bit more important than worrying about unclear card text

It's very easy to ignore secondary concerns when you're not the developer of the game. You can balance the game and also have clear card text.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Didn't Rockbiter Weapon and Windfury conflict in WoW? Maybe that's the solution: if you Rockbiter Doomhammer, you don't get Windfury that turn.

That's actually pretty good, doesn't increase damage output by a significant amount(if you want to hit face) but still strong.

Doomhammer 5
Overload 2
When you attack, you have a 50% chance to attack again this turn (happens only once).
2/8

Now you're thinking with Brodes!

 

[Dahbomb]

At least Blizzard didn't print this card:

2 mana 5/5 Overload 2
Totem

Turn 1 Trogg, turn 2 that and you win game.

 

[slightconfuse]

Nerfing burst damage seems like a bad idea.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Doomhammer a 2/6 and call it done?

Stealth Harrison nerf.

 

[LyleLanley]

I want a Tavern Brawl in which both players buff up the same C'thun.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I didn't go with with Reno, so I could double up on Twilight Summoners and AOE spells. I use Lightlord, Lay on Hands, and Forbidden Healing x2 for heals.

I was referring to Forbidden Healings with reno. I only use one of each though, a 2nd forbidden healing seems a bit overkill.

I'm running the 4 mana deathrattle taunter instead of the summoners for some added N'Zoth protection.

 

[ZealousD]

At least Blizzard didn't print this card:

2 mana 5/5 Overload 2
Totem

Turn 1 Trogg, turn 2 that and you win game.

I dislike the fact that Blizzard has introduced both overload synergy mechanics AND extremely powerful overload cards. If you're going to start putting stats on overload minions like Totem Golem and Flamewreathed Faceless then you don't need cards like Tunnel Trogg and Eternal Sentinel. Blizzard should be doing one or the other, because doing both is an overcorrection for the problem with overload.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Nerfing burst damage seems like a bad idea.

More like nerfing really cheap burst damage. I honestly also think Power Overwhelming should be nerfed.

Doomhammer a 2/6 and call it done?

Stealth Harrison nerf.

You almost never want to draw 6 or so cards anyway(risk of overdrawing) so kind of a buff.

 

[CoolOff]

N'Zoth is the strongest card by far from this expansion. I'm not sure why that hasn't been made apparent in the meta yet. There's only like 2 classes that can actually deal with it.

 

[manhack]

Here is a short list of cards I think were underated or overlooked in card reviews:

Demented Frostcaller: been an absolute beast in tempo mage

Journey Below: Loving the turn 1 play and for enabling combos. I've won several games due to getting exactly what i need based on the situation

Forbidden Ritual: Doesn't affect the board like implosion, but really powerful to fit this into a play with jugger or Darkshire Councilman

Darkshire Councilman: Beefy minion that grows out of control if your opponent can't deal with it. I've been hit by 9 damage with this thing.

Bloodhoof Brave: Solid taunt minion that really works will in patron warrior for enabling battle rage and can be hard for some decks to deal with the 5 attack.

Bilefin Tidehunter: the ability to create a 1/1 with taunt can really screw over an opponent who doesn't have an aoe solution. Great in zoo and aggro paladin

 

[Apathy]

N'Zoth is the strongest card by far from this expansion. I'm not sure why that hasn't been made apparent in the meta yet. There's only like 2 classes that can actually deal with it.

cthun brings in masses, but they will eventually move on to n'zoth.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Here is a short list of cards I think were underated or overlooked in card reviews:

Demented Frostcaller: been an absolute beast in tempo mage

Journey Below: Loving the turn 1 play and for enabling combos. I've won several games due to getting exactly what i need based on the situation

Forbidden Ritual: Doesn't affect the board like implosion, but really powerful to fit this into a play with jugger or Darkshire Councilman

Darkshire Councilman: Beefy minion that grows out of control if your opponent can't deal with it. I've been hit by 9 damage with this thing.

Bloodhoof Brave: Solid taunt minion that really works will in patron warrior for enabling battle rage and can be hard for some decks to deal with the 5 attack.

Bilefin Tidehunter: the ability to create a 1/1 with taunt can really screw over an opponent who doesn't have an aoe solution. Great in zoo and aggro paladin

I think everyone said that Bloodhoof Brave and Ritual were solid cards, you're right about the other ones.

I think overall people were way too negative about all the cards, there are very few new cards that have been worse than expected so far, that says a lot about the pessimistic nature of the community regarding cards.

 

[Schnauzer]

I think this is the most unbalanced this game has gotten...

Seriously winning streaks of 10 are easy to come by when you play Shaman.

 

[ZealousD]

N'Zoth is the strongest card by far from this expansion. I'm not sure why that hasn't been made apparent in the meta yet. There's only like 2 classes that can actually deal with it.

Classes that kill you by Turn 10 deal with it pretty easily.

 

[Drkirby]

Here is a short list of cards I think were underated or overlooked in card reviews:

Demented Frostcaller: been an absolute beast in tempo mage

Journey Below: Loving the turn 1 play and for enabling combos. I've won several games due to getting exactly what i need based on the situation

Forbidden Ritual: Doesn't affect the board like implosion, but really powerful to fit this into a play with jugger or Darkshire Councilman

Darkshire Councilman: Beefy minion that grows out of control if your opponent can't deal with it. I've been hit by 9 damage with this thing.

Bloodhoof Brave: Solid taunt minion that really works will in patron warrior for enabling battle rage and can be hard for some decks to deal with the 5 attack.

Bilefin Tidehunter: the ability to create a 1/1 with taunt can really screw over an opponent who doesn't have an aoe solution. Great in zoo and aggro paladin

Yeah, I can get behind that. Those are all cards from the dump that no one really talked about. The sleeper commons/rares.

Maybe have gotten some discussion if they were shown off individually though.

 

[QFNS]

Classes that kill you by Turn 10 deal with it pretty easily.

And classes that kill you on turn 6-7 deal with those! The meta works guys!

 

[RecRoulette]

More like nerfing really cheap burst damage. I honestly also think Power Overwhelming should be nerfed.

You almost never want to draw 6 or so cards anyway(risk of overdrawing) so kind of a buff.

Yep. Played against a Warrior who overdrew his C'Thun because he Harrison'd my Doomhammer. Good times.

 

[Dahbomb]

I have only seen a Demented Frostcaller be used once against me.

I think only Councilman and that Murloc card were underrated, the rest were seen mostly as good/solid cards.

I would throw in Cabalist's Tome as well. People thought it would work well in control/fatigue Mage but I have seen it used in Tempo Mage a lot to good effect.

 

[Apathy]

man, 3 games in a row now, 2x of my flame juggles all 3 games have gone face

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I think demented frostcaller is pretty damn good. Mages don't seem to run out of spells these days because of tome. If they have tempo it's potentially even more of an aggressive push than having a flamewaker. It also kinda helps tempo mage once flamewaker is cycled out of standard too.

You lock their board down and then you flamestrike. I can't speak about how well it does against board spamming decks though. I've only had it used against me.

But I also thought it would be quite a good card, in spite of stats. Once I learned you cannot freeze the same target twice, it just went up a lot and the 2/4 stats make sense because of that.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Aww this poor Patron Warrior. Thought I was playing aggro Shaman so he executed both my Unbound Elementals. Poor guy must have felt like shit when I dropped the Flamewreathed Facelesses and the Earth Elementals.

 

[Drkirby]

I have only seen a Demented Frostcaller be used once against me.

I think only Councilman and that Murloc card were underrated, the rest were seen mostly as good/solid cards.

I would throw in Cabalist's Tome as well. People thought it would work well in control/fatigue Mage but I have seen it used in Tempo Mage a lot to good effect.

Demented Frost Caller definitely has potential, it's just too bad its 4 mana and not 3, or that it can't freeze an enemy by attacking too. That thing did serious work when I got it though Renouce Darkness..

Servant of Yogg-Saron is silly. One time I played him, he Shadow Flamed himself, Actually worked out really well for me.

 

[Levi]

I think this is the most unbalanced this game has gotten...

Seriously winning streaks of 10 are easy to come by when you play Shaman.

Shaman seems overpowered but the community hasn't really had much time to counter it either. We don't really have a stable meta yet where we can accurately assess the overall balance.

 

[Apathy]

I dont think anyone in this thread has worse draws than i do. even with cycling I can't get what i need, hell i can't even get my cycle cards most games, and the game mocks me by giving me the exact card i needed last game to clear the board, as always

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Wow, I came up against a c'thun paladin playing his deck like it was aggro. Walked right into an equality clear. I mean shit... he actually almost had me, then I had eadric on turn 7 to counter his twin emperors (and he keeper'd that 3/7 lol). Turn 8 I played lightlord which he ran almost all his minions into (after aldor) so that card alone got me 16 hp. Turn 9 equality clear cause he kept stacking the board. After that I had my own twins and he was pretty much top decking. He even ran forbidden healing so why the hell was he being so aggressive.

Rank 2 too lol.

 

[Pooya]

Changing its cost is not enough. It doesn't make any sense for shaman class, or any class, to have access to this much damage in one card. Blizzard likes to talk about class identity and all that, well, shaman is supposed to be a board based class. If you want a finisher in shaman, there is bloodlust, there is Al'Akir which actually make sense compared with everything the class has and what shaman is trying to do but when doomhammer is around no one will ever play those. Somehow flurry is not in rogue's identity but doomhammer is lol.

Doomhammer should not exist in its current form. They have to change it so that it can only attack minions, pretty much like gorehowl, a control tool. It's so stupid that one can throw two of these in a face deck without any drawback.

 

[Magnus]

N'Zoth/Xar'il Deathrattle Rogue is my new fucking jam. Love it. LOVE it.

So many toxins and shadow steps and duplicated minions, and even priest-like stealing and copying with all the shadowcasters and hucksters. It's my new fave control deck. I swear it feels priest like. Never thought I'd enjoy rogue but this is filling the void left by priest getting blown up by Old Gods.

I might throw Burgle in just to infuriate people even more. I'm steadily climbing the ranks again with this deck - now at 9.

 

[LyleLanley]

N'Zoth/Xar'il Deathrattle Rogue is my new fucking jam. Love it. LOVE it.

So many toxins and shadow steps and duplicated minions, and even priest-like stealing and copying with all the shadowcasters and hucksters. It's my new fave control deck. I swear it feels priest like. Never thought I'd enjoy rogue but this is filling the void left by priest getting blown up by Old Gods.

I might throw Burgle in just to infuriate people even more. I'm steadily climbing the ranks again with this deck - now at 9.

Got a decklist for this?

 

[manhack]

I think this is the most unbalanced this game has gotten...

Seriously winning streaks of 10 are easy to come by when you play Shaman.

I think shaman is pretty strong, but my win rate vs. Shaman since the expansion is %50.

 

[greepoman]

Starting running into a bunch of token pally and zoo so I switched to the new patron warrior... Yep still wrecks decks with so many low health minions.

 

[toddhunter]

That's what I have been saying.

Rockbiter by itself is fine.

Doomhammer by itself is fine.

Those two together are not fine and never have been fine.

Point of order, both together was "fine" for like two years.

It is all about how shitty overload is and how amazing Shaman is when it isn't shitty, which is all about the trogg.

Remove that and things are all balanced again.

 

[Haly]

Trogg to 1/2 might help. Along with nudging Flamewreathed's stats a bit.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Patron seems in a better place than you would've expected without Death's Bite.

Still thinking Xaril and N'Zoth as my crafts right now though. When Rogue isn't shit I do like to play it.