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[Mason]

There is this guy I knew in high school, and while we weren't close friends, he knew a lot of the people I did, I often saw him at parties, and we talked on occasion. After high school, we moved to cities in different parts of the state. So the other day I get a voicemail from him out of nowhere. These are the main points:

- Hey, how's it going, just wanted to see how you're doing and ask you a couple questions
- I started a business up here, a pretty successful business, actually
- I'm thinking of expanding down into [the city I live in]
- When I was thinking of people, your name popped in my head
- You were always confident, smart, knew where you were going
- So I'm coming down this weekend to tell you and some other people about it
- I'd really like you to be there to be a part of this
- Give me a call if you have any questions

He's called me a couple times since then. I've been REALLY busy this week with finals coming up and everything and hadn't had a chance to call him back. So a few minutes ago I pick up the phone to finally return his calls, and it starts ringing; it's him.

I ask him what this business is about and he says he can't explain it over the phone. We chit-chat for a few minues, and at one point he says exactly what he said in the initial voicemail, so I finally just tell him to explain it the best he can over the phone. Once again, he says it's hard to explain without the proper tools, so I ask what it involves or the type of business it is. He said it's not illegal or dangerous or anything like that, and after a while, I got out of him that it involves the internet and (I think) he mentioned e-commerce.

Since I knew from the first voicemail that this was almost certainly some kind of pyramid scheme, I asked him who else he had called about this (since I was apparently in some elite group that he trusted) and he's called pretty much everyone in our group of friends at school. To his credit, everyone he named was of at least average intelligence; there weren't any complete dumbasses or anything.

Still, he's holding three sessions this Saturday to accomodate everyone's schedule and his "business associate" who is driving in all the way from another state will be there, too. I swear everything he said sounded like it was being read off a piece of paper, but I just want to make sure I'm not screwing myself out of something legit.

Has anyone heard of a pyramid or money-making scheme with lines similar to the ones he's feeding me? Should I bother even trying to go to this thing? He says they're not there to take money or anything, but I really don't want to waste my time.

 

[impirius]

Did he mention the word "Quixtar?"

 

[pnjtony]

Don't even bother unless you wanna act like a complete retard to your friends like he's doing to you.

 

[AntoneM]

or Cutco???

 

[El Papa]

Did he mention the word "Quixtar?"

I will predict, yes.

 

[Maxwell House]

It does sound like a lame multi-level marketing (pyramid) scam. I bet he is going to tell you that you have to buy $100-$200 worth of their products yourself each month, etc.

 

[yoshifumi]

isn't freeiPods a pyramid scheme? this is all rather hypocritical.

 

[rareside]

When I was in college, there was this guy in my dorm who tried to get me involved in something similar.. He seemed like a nice guy so I was polite and said hello when I saw him. However, when he started his 'business' he kept asking me if I wanted to make money?

I told him of course I wanted to make money.

I told him to tell me about it, but he insisted that he could only tell me about it over a steak dinner, and he would buy. Needless to say I refused the steak dinner (who lets another guy who he doesn't know buy him a steak dinner?). He wouldn't tell me any other way. And I'm poor today. My only regret in life...

 

[McLesterolBeast]

Regret not taking the steak dinner, or regret having not taken him up on the business idea?

 

[StoOgE]

I have a friend who is one of these.. he throws all of his money at it, and was "told" that he is better off investing his money in this than a savings account or a mortage (he actually told me you save more money by paying rent than the interest on a mortage).. he is also allways trying to get me to buy some really shitty energy drinks for 2 bucks a pop.

He allways tells me about how he golfs with these guys who are millionairs who are in on this too. I met them and they had no fucking money either, had decent jobs, but refused to get houses because they thought renting was better and had plunked ALL of their money into this.

People are so stupid.

 

[rareside]

Regret not taking the steak dinner, or regret having not taken him up on the business idea?

Regret the steak dinner of course. If there's one thing I've learned from college, never turn down a free meal, even if it does come with requirements.

 

[Mason]

Yeah, I'm just wondering if I should even go and hear how they pitch it. If it's legit, then it was worth my time; if not, I got to be amused by watching them pitch a pyramid scheme and seeing people buy into it. It might create an awkward situation though.

 

[aoi tsuki]

i don't view Quixtar as a scheme, but as an alternative to brick-and-mortar shopping, and a possible alternative source of income. The value as a member (someone who only buys things from their partner stores, depends largely on how you view time and money. If you'd rather save a couple of bucks and go to Walmart, wait in line for a half hour, it's not for you. The value as an IBO (indepedant business owner), someone who makes commission on those you sign up, depends on how many people you sign up, and how they use the service.

The worst part about Quixtar (based on using it a year ago) is that their site is very cluttered, and it's difficult to initially find the products you want. Also, they don't always offer you the best price (seen at face value). You really have to balance buying things from yourself and the applicable PV (personal volume). Prices for electronics are usually MSRP or a little higher. i wouldn't recommend it for the deal-consious web shopper, as you could just as easily find similar deals at other sites, with better selection. But at the same time, someone who wants to order things without having to visit a handful of sites for the best price, dealer rating, etc. might like what it offers.

i have a few family members who are or were using Quixtar, mainly as IBOs. They're not rich, and they still keep their day jobs, but at the same time they're not aggressively seeking people to sign up. But they do receive a check every month based on their and their member's purchases. That kind of continual residual income, independant of how many hours you work day-to-day, is what interests me. i've toyed with the idea of signing up myself, but it's really a matter of having people who i think might be interested in signing up as IBOs.

Yeah, I'm just wondering if I should even go and hear how they pitch it. If it's legit, then it was worth my time; if not, I got to be amused by watching them pitch a pyramid scheme and seeing people buy into it. It might create an awkward situation though.

It wouldn't hurt to go. They'll probably focus on the successes ("The Diamonds"), the people that make $100,000 or more a year and basically get paid to go to seminars and promote the business and help others get into it. While i'm sure that's possible, they make it seem all too easy.

Also, i think too many people fall into it thinking it really is that easy, and if they just sign up a bunch of people, they'll get. They end up selling the business like the dork at Best Buy desparately trying to get you to buy a replacement plan on a $50 radio. It's not a one-size-fits-all solution. i remember the second time i was introduced to it. i went to the couple's house, they introduced the plan to me and did some numbers, but then they tried to convince me to buy a plane ticket to go with them to Chicago to go to a meeting. Crazy.

 

[Mason]

i don't view Quixtar as a scheme, but as an alternative to brick-and-mortar shopping, and a possible alternative source of income. The value as a member (someone who only buys things from their partner stores, depends largely on how you view time and money. If you'd rather save a couple of bucks and go to Walmart, wait in line for a half hour, it's not for you. The value as an IBO (indepedant business owner), someone who makes commission on those you sign up, depends on how many people you sign up, and how they use the service.

The worst part about Quixtar (based on using it a year ago) is that their site is very cluttered, and it's difficult to initially find the products you want. Also, they don't always offer you the best price (seen at face value). You really have to balance buying things from yourself and the applicable PV (personal volume). Prices for electronics are usually MSRP or a little higher. i wouldn't recommend it for the deal-consious web shopper, as you could just as easily find similar deals at other sites, with better selection. But at the same time, someone who wants to order things without having to visit a handful of sites for the best price, dealer rating, etc. might like what it offers.

i have a few family members who are or were using Quixtar, mainly as IBOs. They're not rich, and they still keep their day jobs, but at the same time they're not aggressively seeking people to sign up. But they do receive a check every month based on their and their member's purchases. That kind of continual residual income, independant of how many hours you work day-to-day, is what interests me. i've toyed with the idea of signing up myself, but it's really a matter of having people who i think might be interested in signing up as IBOs.

Ok, will you explain this Quixtar thing? I browsed the site briefly, but I don't get the concept. You get people to buy stuff from this site and you get a commission?

 

[ChrisReid]

I'd stay far far away. Don't let the dark side of weasely salesmanship tempt you.

 

[DJ_Tet]

isn't freeiPods a pyramid scheme? this is all rather hypocritical.

lol, glad I wasn't the only one to find this thread TERRIBLY ironic.

 

[aoi tsuki]

Ok, will you explain this Quixtar thing? I browsed the site briefly, but I don't get the concept. You get people to buy stuff from this site and you get a commission?

Basically, there's three levels of membership. The first is where you basically go to the site and purchase products at full price. The second, you become a member (it was $20/year last i heard), and IIRC you receive a percentage of your purchase back (PV). The third, you become an IBO ($70/year, more depending on what sample packages you get) and can introduce others to your network/business and receive a percentage of their purchases (business volume/BV) in a monthly check. As an IBO, the percentage of BV you make on their purchases is tiered, so you may start at 3% if youre BV is $100 or less a month, 5% if it's $100.01 - $500 a month, and so on.

The products available on their site range from their own brands, like Artistry cosmetics, to partner sites, like Hammacher Schlemmer, Land's End, and others.

The problem with the business is that they don't release a lot of materials to you if you're interested for free, or at least they didn't when i was looking into it. It wasn't until i found out that i had family members in the business that i actually got to look at materials and listen to recordings. Also, like i said above, some of the people in the business don't pick their potential members and IBOs very well, and desparately sell it as some amazing get rich quick scheme. There's really no point introducing somemone to the business if you don't realistically believe them to stick with it after the first year. And it's not likely you'll gain a lot of people in your business first off. The planner in the documentation has you list five people you think would be interested, then set a goal for X more per month, something like three, which is attainable.

When you sign up as an IBO, the person who signed you up will get your first and maybe second members/IBOs for you. They have meetings every few weeks at locations around the country. If you live in a major city or near one, you should be able to find one relatively simple. You may be able to get other IBOs in the area to take you if you can't drive yourself. AFAIK, attendance isn't recommended, but it's probably suggested.

Once you become a diamond (over $100,000 BV), they pay you a large sum, another $100,000 i think, to go to seminars and promote Quixtar. i'm sure there's some other objectives you have to meet at that level, because just offering you a check every month for an additional hundred grand after doing a couple of seminars seems too easy.

Some of the terminology and information may be outdated/innaccurate. It's been a while since i've seriously looked into it.

 

[Mason]

lol, glad I wasn't the only one to find this thread TERRIBLY ironic.

LOL, with the free iPods, you didn't have to put any money up front. You're TERRIBLY idiotic.


And thanks for the info, aoi tsuki. I don't think that really sounds like something I'd be interested in. I'll drop "Quixtar" into the coversation when I call him tomorrow and see what he says.

 

[aoi tsuki]

LOL, with the free iPods, you didn't have to put any money up front. You're TERRIBLY idiotic.


And thanks for the info, aoi tsuki. I don't think that really sounds like something I'd be interested in. I'll drop "Quixtar" into the coversation when I call him tomorrow and see what he says.

No problem. i'd at least hear him out to see what it is, and yeah, definitely mention Quixtar. It has potential, but you wouldn't be quitting your day job any time soon if you got into it, unless you got presented the business to the right people, or just pushed the right product. Several people have pushed the XS energy drink and made their business off of that. Supposedly, XS has sold more than Red Bull in the US, and it's exclusive to Quixtar. Personally, i think the stuff tastes like ass because it uses a non-sugar sweetener. But to each their own.

 

[Truelize]

I would go. Multi-level marketing/selling is kinda cool. If you enjoy selling and it's a decent product you get to deal with. I don't have the commitment to really stick with any of them. I've only had a business in one of them and I did pretty good before I got bored with it. But the buddy that approched me about it did very well. Biggest check I ever saw for a month was over $16,000. That was just sick seeing that.

What do you have to lose?

 

[Azih]

An old friend of mine (an acquaintance now I guess) is heavily into 'Quixtar' actually. Really it's just buying unknown brand name products from the quixtar website and getting everybody you know to do it too and you get a commission.

it's All-Advantage with groceries really. As with any pyramid scheme the people near the top are making the really crazy money and for you to be decent you have to get as many levels below you as possible.

 

[EdLuva]

Yep, that sounds like Quixstar.

:lol @ Cutco comment. Vector Marketing brings back bad memories. Great knives, though.

 

[Funky Papa]

http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/enteramquix.htm

Just say no to them, MLM enterprises are EVIL.

 

[Wellington]

or Cutco???

or 2by2.net???

 

[Azih]

One of the things that made me uncomfortable about Quixtar is that the kind of cult like preemptive reaction to criticism. My friend said things like 'well your family and friends will say this is a bad idea, but who do you want to listen to, them or the people who're really making money?' (people making money of course being the people way above your level in the organisation).

 

[impirius]

Here's one thing they don't tell you: the people on top make the big money not from the BV/PV stuff, but from selling the "motivational" materials that everyone in the MLM scheme is pressured to buy.

Amway/Quixtar (the latter is a spinoff) are basically an economic cult. The focus is on recruitment; you need to get as many people as you can underneath you in order to make money. You're inundated with "motivational" material and are pressured by your "upline" (the person above you) to go to conferences, where you'll hear very rich people tell you that if you work hard enough and recruit enough people, you can be rich just as they are. Their real interest, of course, is to make you believe in the dream so much that you buy some books or tapes on your way out and will plan on going to the next conference.

I've seen a couple of my friends talk about how they're so FIRED UP! about their Quixtar business after going to those conferences. I've been recruited. The reality is that neither my friends nor their uplines (nor their uplines) have seen much change in their economic condition other than buying a lot of their stuff from Quixtar instead of other stores.

 

[SSGMUN10000]

I have a friend thats into Cutco and apparently she is making some pretty good money.

 

[Red Dolphin]

Quixtar sounds EXACTLY the same as Amway. In fact, it even features some of the same exclusive products like XS Energy Drink and the Artistry cosmetic range.

I was approached by a friend about looking at a "business opportunity" and everything that aoi tsuki has described is very much what happens. Everything from them not being able to explain the business over the phone but rather in person, to not having much access to materials on the business until you've basically signed up.

I think the concept is quite good. The trouble is that around half the products are "no-name" brands or exclusive brands not availabe from normal shops. And most products are MSRP or a bit higher.
The really tough thing with this business is introducing it to other ppl without it coming off as a really dodgy-evil-get-rich-quick-pryamid scheme. It's very hard to explain or get someone interested in it enough to get them to come to a "meeting" and find out how the business works. If you reveal too many details over the phone ppl are quick to write it of as a pyramid scheme or form their own misconceptions That's why it's discouraged to reveal too much but how do you get someone interested enough to come along if they have no idea what the hell it's about?

Certainly with Amway the initial "outlay" is very minimal really. It's a very low risk thing to "invest" in and you won't lose too much money if you aren't very successful and decide not to renew your "IBO". At worst you'll get to buy products online and get them delievered to your house and you might save a few bucks.
The trouble is you are encouraged to buy ongoing weekly motivation cds, buy "ad-packs" which are things you hand out to ppl to give them a small hint of what the business is about and are an alternative to trying to convince them verbally over the phone to come to a meeting and learn about the business. Theres also big seminars which cost money to go to with speeches from highly successful IBOs. And if you want to make money, everyone has to buy a decent amount of products. A lot of the products now are becoming more and more the things you would buy normally from the shops and the business also has affiliates with major retail shops who give you a discount.

I say go to a meeting and check it out. But don't be too quick to sign up. Take your time deciding and do as much research as you can. I wasn't very successful because when I approached ppl came to their own conclusions about the business before even finding out any real details and then decide not to pursue it at all (not even go to a meeting). The other thing is it's very hard to approach ppl and try to explain it without coming off as really "dodgy" or unnatural. Just like watching one of those late night or midday adverts trying to flog you something and you just cringe and think what a scam it is.

 

[Red Dolphin]

Here's one thing they don't tell you: the people on top make the big money not from the BV/PV stuff, but from selling the "motivational" materials that everyone in the MLM scheme is pressured to buy.

Amway/Quixtar (the latter is a spinoff) are basically an economic cult. The focus is on recruitment; you need to get as many people as you can underneath you in order to make money. You're inundated with "motivational" material and are pressured by your "upline" (the person above you) to go to conferences, where you'll hear very rich people tell you that if you work hard enough and recruit enough people, you can be rich just as they are. Their real interest, of course, is to make you believe in the dream so much that you buy some books or tapes on your way out and will plan on going to the next conference.

I've seen a couple of my friends talk about how they're so FIRED UP! about their Quixtar business after going to those conferences. I've been recruited. The reality is that neither my friends nor their uplines (nor their uplines) have seen much change in their economic condition other than buying a lot of their stuff from Quixtar instead of other stores.

Yeah that's what I wanted to point out in my post too but only breifly touched on. Scary how it's the same everything it seems.

 

[Azih]

Maybe the reason it's so hard for it not to come off as a dodgy scam is because that's what it is Red Dolphin?

 

[Nerevar]

my question is, why the hell can't these people explain it over the phone? Is it simply because they know that you have a much higher chance of turning them down that way?

 

[Azih]

Yes.

 

[MC Safety]

I ask him what this business is about and he says he can't explain it over the phone. We chit-chat for a few minues, and at one point he says exactly what he said in the initial voicemail, so I finally just tell him to explain it the best he can over the phone. Once again, he says it's hard to explain without the proper tools, so I ask what it involves or the type of business it is. He said it's not illegal or dangerous or anything like that, and after a while, I got out of him that it involves the internet and (I think) he mentioned e-commerce.

He says they're not there to take money or anything, but I really don't want to waste my time.

Any time someone has a business, but cannot explain what that business is, run.

Any time someone tells you his business is not illegal or dangerous, run.

Any time someone tells you his business involves the Internet or e-commerce and that he's not there to take money, hide your wallet and then run.

 

[LakeEarth]

???

 

[Hitokage]

Any time someone has a business, but cannot explain what that business is, run.

Absolutely, and this also applies to workshops or seminars. If you only get "you'll just have to come in and see" then stay the fuck away.

 

[CaptainABAB]

Here's the other negative thing about these schemes, IMO....

I was really good friends with someone who I met in college and he got into one of these selling some moisturizer or something. Next thing I know, thats all he talks about, the product he's selling, etc. In fact, one time I visited outside during a break and I determined that it was a ploy just to get me to attend one of these seminars.

Basically, if you want to become a complete douche-bag, sign-up.

 

[CaptainABAB]

I jsut looked up one product, a Olympus® Stylus® 300 Digital Camera, that is $300 on Quixtar compated to $220 at Best Buy. Yeah, thats what I call an "alternative to brick-and-mortar shopping" but I guess you get a portion of that mark-up back. Thanks guys.

WOO HOO - SIGN ME UP!

 

[Azih]

I jsut looked up one product, a Olympus® Stylus® 300 Digital Camera, that is $300 on Quixtar compated to $220 at Best Buy. Yeah, thats what I call an "alternative to brick-and-mortar shopping" but I guess you get a portion of that mark-up back. Thanks guys.

WOO HOO - SIGN ME UP!

See if you got all of GAF to buy that camera then you would make a little cash!

 

[tigerfan12345]

DAMN, every point, i mean every single thing you guys have said sounds so familiar to something that was proposed to me and a friend of mine. I ended up saying no, but my friend decided to try it, and was promised all these vacations and acheivement diamond rings and cruises. He throwing away thousands of dollars on licenses and seminars and quit a couple months later, but he did get to go on these vacation/seminars that they had to pay for which were pretty sad. By the way the business was WFG or world financial group. A couple of my friends really did become douchebags that everyone tried to avoid, just because they tried to pressure everyone so much. I stopped inviting friends and family over because i knew of the impending pressure they'd have to undergo by some of the business members. anybody else have funny stories about WFG. The crazy thing was the cult like culture of these MLM's

 

[StoOgE]

wait? XS energy drink? Thats the shit my friend is in then.

 

[Azih]

Yes, XS energy drink. They hype that thing like it's the second coming of Jesus. It comes in these really thin cans too. with ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS.

They show it to scientists! and the scientists say that this is the best thing they've ever seen!

 

[StoOgE]

yeah, zero carbs, zero sugar. He has tried to sell me that shit every fucking day it seems like for the last two years.

 

[Particle Physicist]

oh man, one of my old high school friends has recently joined on eo fhtese schemes.

the past couple of times i have gone home to visit the fam, he has tried to get me to go to one of their seminars or whatnot. if i hadnt been busy, i would have actually gone. just to satisfy my curiosity of how these people ever convince others.. and maybe to ask a few really stupid and dim-witted questions (basically have some fun with them monkeys)..

 

[Maxwell House]

It is hilarious how these MLMs try to act like the prodcuts they force you and others to buy are priced competitively. That is pure BS. All the products are marked up 30-40% at least over what you could buy them for at normal stores. MLM is horrible.

 

[AstroLad]

It's funny how people into these things actually sound even dumber than cult people. It's like a cult of crappy products and bullshit no one wants that they're trying to convert you to.

 

[AntoneM]

Yep, that sounds like Quixstar.

:lol @ Cutco comment. Vector Marketing brings back bad memories. Great knives, though.

indeed!

 

[Hitokage]

It's funny how people into these things actually sound even dumber than cult people. It's like a cult of crappy products and bullshit no one wants that they're trying to convert you to.

There is actually little difference in the organization, methodology, and psychology of MLM schemes and destructive cults. There are basically different flavors of the same thing.

 

[CaptainABAB]

Some people just need to belong to cults. My problem is not realizing this earlier and taking advantage of it for my own personal advantage.

 

[aoi tsuki]

Here's the other negative thing about these schemes, IMO....

I was really good friends with someone who I met in college and he got into one of these selling some moisturizer or something. Next thing I know, thats all he talks about, the product he's selling, etc. In fact, one time I visited outside during a break and I determined that it was a ploy just to get me to attend one of these seminars.

Basically, if you want to become a complete douche-bag, sign-up.

A lot of those same douche-bags would be the same way if they worked in retail, real estate, car sales, or any other commission or heavily profit-driven business. i don't blame MLM or Quixtar solely for that, but at the same time i don't deny the cult-like presence that they have. Maybe it's profitable for them to do things this way instead of being more straightforward and telling their members to do the same, but it's to the shadiness factor of the company as a whole.

The people that buy into the "get rich quick" aspect of MLM are fools. i wouldn't doubt a lot of those people who sign up name the prerequisite five people who they think might be interested, then a month or so into the business, realize that they won't be making the money they thought they would (mostly their own fault), and desparately try to get anybody and everybody to sign up.

If you do the numbers, you can see that even in a moderately ideal situation, you'll still need to constantly acquire more members/IBOs, they'll have to purchase x amount of product at y BV, consistently. And after their first year of membership, they've got to pay to continue membership.

i went to a couple of introductory meetings, saw through the glossy presentation, but also saw the potential in it. i don't see residual income like this as an immediate solution to quit my job, but as a way to augment my current income. i'm not currently involved in any right now, because it requires having a network of potentials and the desire to seek out more. i'm sure that you could make some nice residuals just off of selling XS, especially if you offer the business to the right college students, but it's not a product i'd use myself, and i don't like actively promoting products/services i wouldn't use myself or simply don't believe in, which pretty much desribes XS.