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In-Depth: Dead or Alive 4 (A Lot More Depth!)

MrAngryFace said:
ive been fed these lies before! never again!
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I've always thought DOA was crap in terms of gameplay depth. I much prefer Tekken and VF. However, DOA4 has added a lot of stuff that Tekken and VF have and it looks a lot deeper. But if you don't want to believe, that's fine... :lol
 
The counter window has been severly toned down from the preview I read, that brings this game up alot in my book.
 
Where is this added depth in the videos? Looks like the same moves and counters to me.

Also, would a casual observer agree that DOA has a very simple ruleset, but a supreme lack of depth? :lol
 
Im buying the game only to support Itagaki but i dont see the depth in the videos. ITs the same animation recycled from the last 2 games.

It just looks alot faster
 
Musashi Wins! said:
Where is this added depth in the videos? Looks like the same moves and counters to me.

Also, would a casual observer agree that DOA has a very simple ruleset, but a supreme lack of depth? :lol
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When you take two people who do nothing by mash, it's kinda hard to see the depth. But if you aren't aware of what makes a fighting engine deep, you'd probably think DOA4 was the same as DOA3/2. It's the players who will actually spend time with the game and take it beyond mashing and spamming counters that will see all of the new things Itagaki has added...

...or you could just read the articles as most of the changes are explained (on their simplist level).
 
DrDogg said:
When you take two people who do nothing by mash, it's kinda hard to see the depth. But if you aren't aware of what makes a fighting engine deep, you'd probably think DOA4 was the same as DOA3/2. It's the players who will actually spend time with the game and take it beyond mashing and spamming counters that will see all of the new things Itagaki has added...

...or you could just read the articles as most of the changes are explained (on their simplist level).
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I'll read them, because though I used to enjoy them in all their simplicity...enough is enough.

huh, those are some small but extremely effecting changes.
 
Prine said:
Im buying the game only to support Itagaki but i dont see the depth in the videos. ITs the same animation recycled from the last 2 games.

It just looks alot faster
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He's going to do last minute changes with top DOA players in Japan
 
Tain said:
I'd love to know how anybody can 'see' depth in the first place.
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Humans have what it called binocular vision. We can see depth quite readily. It's called "depth perception."
 
krypt0nian said:
Its very possible you completely missed the point.
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I think the original poster missed the point. Any high level fighting game player can "see" depth by how the characters react in certain instances. For example, the new ground boune in DOA4 that lets you follow up with low juggles. That adds depth right there.

Agent Icebeezy said:
He's going to do last minute changes with top DOA players in Japan
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High level fighting game players in Japan play DOA? Do they even have an Xbox? :lol
 
DrDogg said:
I think the original poster missed the point. Any high level fighting game player can "see" depth by how the characters react in certain instances. For example, the new ground boune in DOA4 that lets you follow up with low juggles. That adds depth right there.
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Exactly. Its about movesets and strategic opportunities, not depth perception in vision.
 
DrDogg said:
High level fighting game players in Japan play DOA? Do they even have an Xbox? :lol
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Of the times I played DOAU online, the times I got my ass kicked hard, they had the Japanese flag next to their names
 
This reminds me of the famous Bruce Vilanch SF3 thread. It is not possible a lot of times to see a deep fighting game engine just by watching. You have to play it, that's the bottom line.
 
One of the biggest changes is in the tracking ability of attacks. While previous DOA titles allowed players to move around in a 3D environment, avoiding attacks was relatively difficult due to the fact that a vast majority of the attacks in DOA will track your opponent no matter how far around you they walk or sidestep.

This will no longer be the case with Dead or Alive 4, as sidestepping is now a very useful tactic.
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ABOUT DAMN TIME! That was THE most annoying thing about DOA games.

While we don't have exact frame data, we estimate the counter window is now around 10 frames. That gives players less than half the time to perform a successful counter when compared to past DOA titles.
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Good....

This means that not only will players need better timing to perform a successful counter, but when they do get a counter, it will take a reasonable amount of damage instead of a third of your opponent's life bar.
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Yay. Nerfed reversals.

When many of the attacks in Dead or Alive 4 are blocked, the attacker will still be at an advantage. This is referred to as frame advantage. In comparison, Dead or Alive Ultimate leaves the attacker at a disadvantage when any attack is blocked (with a few minor exceptions).

By shifting the advantage from the defender to the attacker, DOA4 will offer a completely new gameplay experience for DOA fans. After blocking an attack that leaves your opponent at an advantage, if you try to beat your opponent to the punch with a counter attack, you'll be taking the hit instead of dishing it out
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Turtlers beware.
 
When many of the attacks in Dead or Alive 4 are blocked, the attacker will still be at an advantage. This is referred to as frame advantage. In comparison, Dead or Alive Ultimate leaves the attacker at a disadvantage when any attack is blocked (with a few minor exceptions).

By shifting the advantage from the defender to the attacker, DOA4 will offer a completely new gameplay experience for DOA fans. After blocking an attack that leaves your opponent at an advantage, if you try to beat your opponent to the punch with a counter attack, you'll be taking the hit instead of dishing it out
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Man, it shows just how bad DoA was that this is actually listed as a feature. I guess it's a new experience for DoA fans, but it's been standard in fighting games since forever...

Still, sounds promising. Maybe if SC3 ends up being stupidly broken DoA4 could get some tourney exposure in its place.
 
The good thing about this news is that it quantifies exactly what people meant when they said DoA lacks depth. Most of this new stuff is basically standard in all decent fighters ....but not in the DoA series until the 4th iteration. That says it all.

I think a lot of the haters on this board will keep hating though, since you can probably still interrupt stuns by attempting a reversal. And since the game moves so fast (faster, supposedly), the smaller reversal window isn't gonna matter much if you are trying to reverse strings mid stun. And it's probably going to make the game look exactly like the others when watching vids
 
I think the original poster missed the point. Any high level fighting game player can "see" depth by how the characters react in certain instances. For example, the new ground boune in DOA4 that lets you follow up with low juggles. That adds depth right there.
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It adds more combos. If that falls under depth, then sure.
 
DoA4 must be making huge strides in gameplay because this thread is too mild. Usually DoA4 receives more of a beatdown at GAF than I've seen.
 
Mrbob said:
DoA4 must be making huge strides in gameplay because this thread is too mild. Usually DoA4 receives more of a beatdown at GAF than I've seen.
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yeah, i'm guessing some people read the article and had a whole lot less to bitch about...

and the ones that didn't... well, got told to read it...
 
Musashi Wins! said:
Where is this added depth in the videos? Looks like the same moves and counters to me.

Also, would a casual observer agree that DOA has a very simple ruleset, but a supreme lack of depth? :lol
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I dunno. Better ask Mihail ;)
 
Don't see any mention of command throws being excapable, which is something that has always bugged me, but aside from that, I love the changes. It's about damn time most of those made their way in :)
 
I'm glad that the entire fighting system seems to be getting an overhaul. Its long overdue. This is easily my most anticipated X360 game at the moment.

Anyone think they will try and pack in more stages? 8 doesn't seem like enough. I plan on playing this online a lot so it would be nice to get some more variety in there. I'd be nice to see some of the stages from DOA3 and DOAU redone or something.
 
DarkCloud said:
I bet anything that at least the "Danger" stage makes another appearance...much as I hate that damn missile loader area.
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The nighttime stage at the top of those towers (the last stage in the fly by vid if you've seen it) looks like it might be the new danger stage in this one. There is electricity coursing through the fence.
 
Actually with 3 they seem to be branching into at least two danger stages...I think the tower is just to replace that ruins area in 3 with lightning hitting the spires as you wall strike.

The missile bay seems to have become tecmo's "biggs and Wedge" as it were. I expect to see it return and take up a slot for a more deserving stage.
 
Baron Aloha said:
Anyone think they will try and pack in more stages? 8 doesn't seem like enough. I plan on playing this online a lot so it would be nice to get some more variety in there. I'd be nice to see some of the stages from DOA3 and DOAU redone or something.
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There were 8 stages playable at TGS with 1 extra stage being X'd out. In screens we've seen an additional 3 stages, so that means there are at least 11 stages. In addition, out of those 11, only 3 will likely be available for tag, so I'd assume at least a few more tag stages will be added. I'd say it's safe to assume we'll see at least 14 or 15 stages in the final.

DarkCloud said:
I bet anything that at least the "Danger" stage makes another appearance...much as I hate that damn missile loader area.
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New Danger Zone Stage
 
Knew it...so it's chemical explosions this time it seems. Does it make you sit through some kind of intro scene like the missile loading sequence?
 
DrDogg said:
There were 8 stages playable at TGS with 1 extra stage being X'd out. In screens we've seen an additional 3 stages, so that means there are at least 11 stages. In addition, out of those 11, only 3 will likely be available for tag, so I'd assume at least a few more tag stages will be added. I'd say it's safe to assume we'll see at least 14 or 15 stages in the final.
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Sounds good.
 
But are wall combos still instant combo enders? And do combos do damage yet?

Also, DoA4 will never be a tournament game like Tekken 5 or VF4. 3D fighting game players only like their game, they're even snootier than 2D players. Fact!
 
How about this... read the article, then comment. I don't even think there's any mention of "more combos". -_-
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the new ground boune in DOA4 that lets you follow up with low juggles.
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Sounds like new potential combos to me.

I'm willing to bet that DOA4 will be an amazing game, actually. I'm pumped about it. And yeah, it definitely sounds like it'll be closer to being widely competitively played, if only due to the tightening of the reversal window. I just think that the idea of seeing depth (as in complexity and balance of the overall game?) via a few pre-release videos is kinda strange.
 
Tain said:
Sounds like new potential combos to me.

I'm willing to bet that DOA4 will be an amazing game, actually. I'm pumped about it. And yeah, it definitely sounds like it'll be closer to being widely competitively played, if only due to the tightening of the reversal window. I just think that the idea of seeing depth (as in complexity and balance of the overall game?) via a few pre-release videos is kinda strange.
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well, it was pretty easy to see how the ground game changed with attacks like the second hit of Zack's K,K and Kasumi's 9K hitting grounded, and noticing the bounce on moves that used to just slam into the ground before, and spotting rising kicks being done after a wall slump, and seeing holds being done out of a wall stun...
 
Still annoying (and completely unintuitive) that stunned opponents can't be thrown. In fact, trying to throw a stunned opponent penalizes you! WTF?

That's the entire point of stunning someone in a fight by using strikes: so you can dash in and throw them!
 
Demigod Mac said:
Still annoying (and completely unintuitive) that stunned opponents can't be thrown. In fact, trying to throw a stunned opponent penalizes you! WTF?

That's the entire point of stunning someone in a fight by using strikes: so you can dash in and throw them!
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yeah, then everyone would throw someone once stunned since only basic throws and chain throws can be escaped...
 
Tain said:
I'd love to know how anybody can 'see' depth in the first place.
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Depth-shading?

So how many versions did it take for Itagaki to realize that tightening up the counter window would be a good idea? :lol

It's a great 4 player game (>SmashBros IMO), but yeah, it's funny how only now they start fixing the apparent flaws.
 
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