• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Intel is considering splitting off it's foundry business

winjer

Gold Member

According to a recent report from Bloomberg, Intel is in talks with investment banks about a possible spin-out of its foundry business, as well as scraping some existing expansion plans to cut losses. As the report highlights, sources close to Intel noted that the company is exploring various ways to deal with the recent Q2 2024 earnings report. While Intel's revenues are in decline, they are still high. However, the profitability of running its business has declined so much that the company is now operating on a net loss, with an astonishing $1.61 billion in the red. CEO Pat Gelsinger is now exploring various ways to control these losses and make the 56-year-old giant profitable again. Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley are reportedly advising Intel about its future moves regarding the foundry business and overall operations.

The Intel Foundry unit represents the biggest consumer of the company's funds, as the expansion plans across the US and Europe are costing Intel billions of US Dollars. Even though the company receives various state subsidies to build semiconductor manufacturing facilities, it still has to put much of its capital to work. Given that the company is running tight on funds, some of these expansion plans that are not business-critical may get scraped. Additionally, running the foundry business is also turning out to be rather costly, with Q2 2024 recording a negative 65.5% operating margin. Separating Intel Product and Intel Foundry may be an option, or even selling the foundry business as a whole is on the table. Whatever happens next is yet to be cleared up. During the Deutsche Bank Technology Conference on Thursday, Pat Gelsinger also noted that "It's been a difficult few weeks" for Intel, with many employees getting laid off to try to establish new cost-saving measures.


Intel Corp. is working with investment bankers to help navigate the most difficult period in its 56-year history, according to people familiar with the matter.

The company is discussing various scenarios, including a split of its product-design and manufacturing businesses, as well as which factory projects might potentially be scrapped, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the deliberations are private.

Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Intel’s longtime bankers, have been providing advice on the possibilities, which could also include potential M&A, the people said. The discussions have only grown more urgent since the Santa Clara, California-based company delivered a grim earnings report this month, which sent the shares plunging to their lowest level since 2013.

The various options are expected to be presented during a board meeting in September, the people said.

Intel shares rose 1.9% to $20.51 in early trading on Friday before markets opened in New York. They have declined 60% this year, compared with a 20% gain for the Philadelphia Stock Exchange Semiconductor Index, a chip-industry benchmark.

No major move is imminent and discussions are still in early stages, the people cautioned. A representative for Intel declined to comment, while Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

A potential separation or sale of Intel’s foundry division, which is aimed at manufacturing chips for outside customers, would be an about-face for Chief Executive Officer Pat Gelsinger. Gelsinger has viewed the business as key to restoring Intel’s standing among chipmakers and had hoped it would eventually compete with the likes of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., which pioneered the foundry industry.

But it’s more likely that Intel takes a less dramatic step before it reaches that point, such as holding off on some of its expansion plans, the people said. The company has already done project financing deals with Brookfield Infrastructure Partners and Apollo Global Management.

Intel’s Gelsinger is running out of time to pull off a much-needed turnaround. He’s been attempting to expand the chipmaker’s factory network at the same time that sales are shrinking — a money-losing proposition. The company suffered a net loss of $1.61 billion last quarter, and analysts are predicting more red ink for the next year.

“Expect big capex cuts from Intel over the next 12 months,” said Amir Anvarzadeh, market strategist at Asymmetric Advisors. “Intel’s model is effectively broken. It’s fighting fires on too many fronts.”

Gelsinger, an Intel veteran who left the company for more than a decade, took the helm in 2021 and promised to restore the company’s technological edge. Under previous CEOs, the chip pioneer had lost market share and its long-vaunted reputation for innovation.

But his comeback plan proved overly ambitious, and the company has had to scale back. When it reported earnings earlier this month, Intel announced plans to cut about 15,000 jobs and slash capital spending. The company even suspended its long-prized dividend.

“It’s been a difficult few weeks,” Gelsinger told investors at the Deutsche Bank Technology Conference on Thursday. The company tried to lay out a “clear view” of its next steps during its earnings report, he said. “Obviously the market didn’t respond positively. We understand that.”

Adding to the upheaval, director Lip-Bu Tan abruptly stepped down from the board last week. The semiconductor veteran, who was brought in two years ago to help with the comeback effort, cited scheduling commitments. But his departure removed one of the few directors with industry knowledge and experience.

Gelsinger’s comeback plan hinged on recasting Intel into two groups: one that designs chips and another that manufactures them. The production arm would then be free to seek business from other companies.

But the biggest client of Intel’s factory network is still Intel. Until the foundry business has more outside customers, it’s going to be challenged financially. It reported operating losses of $2.8 billion in its most recent quarter and is now on course to have a worse year than projected.

With a market value of $86 billion, Intel has fallen out of the top 10 largest chipmakers in the world ranked by that measure. It’s the second-worst performer on the Philadelphia chip index this year and suffers in comparisons with the stratospheric gains of Nvidia Corp., a company that’s on course to post double Intel’s revenue in 2024.

As recently as 2021, Intel was three times the size of Nvidia by revenue.


Lip-Bu Tan, a high-profile board member of Intel, has now resigned, as per the reporting by Reuters.

Officially, Tan cited his "various commitments" as the stimulus behind his exit, asserting that he remained "supportive" of Intel's turnaround strategy. Privately though, Tan his purportedly voiced a litany of grievances.

To Tan, Intel appears a bloated mess with inertia-inducing layers of bureaucracy, including an army of middle managers who thwart innovation at the company's desktop and server divisions.

To put Intel's bloat into context, some of the teams are currently operating with a headcount that is five times the size of the given teams at the company's rivals doing comparable work.

Some of Intel's former executives, as quoted by Reuters, see its work culture as complacent and uncompetitive, which is a material deviation from the "only-the-paranoid-survive" maxim of the company's co-founder, Andy Grove.

In fact, with Intel employing more people than NVIDIA or TSMC, a former executive believes Intel should have doubled its recent layoffs, and implemented that culling years ago.
 
The fact that Intel's market share is less than $18 billion of what MS paid for Activision is insane, considering how much more important Intel is to the world versus some video game publisher. I can't believe how far they have fallen.

Not a lover of the company. But the chip world needs a strong intel That’s being pushed to innovate with competitive products. Although that might totally alien in concept and beyond them these days

But it can all turn around. It was only a few years ago, amd shares where around $1.

Maybe this is what intel needs to refocus and fight off becoming another or further out of touch tech dinosaur ?
 

Smiggs

Member
Not a lover of the company. But the chip world needs a strong intel That’s being pushed to innovate with competitive products. Although that might totally alien in concept and beyond them these days

But it can all turn around. It was only a few years ago, amd shares where around $1.

Maybe this is what intel needs to refocus and fight off becoming another or further out of touch tech dinosaur ?
Agreed, hopefully this is the fire under their ass they need to right the ship. Intel rested on their laurels for years, and AMD ate their lunch. How many years were they stuck on 14nm? How many years did we get 4 core/8 thread refreshes with marginal IPC improvements while cranking up the wattage? Intel needs to get their shit together, because they are an important player in the industry. Hopefully they can before it's too late.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius








Never in a million years I would have thought Intel would be at this point, unless it is their way to beg for money from the government.
 

StereoVsn

Member








If this is the case, their board and whole C suite needs to be fired. What a fucking disaster.

And there are starting to be some pointed questions in Congress on WTF is Intel doing with Fed money.
 

winjer

Gold Member
If this is the case, their board and whole C suite needs to be fired. What a fucking disaster.

The problem is not just this current board ad CEO. Mismanagement has been going on for many years, the problem is that it's consequences are now in full display.

And there are starting to be some pointed questions in Congress on WTF is Intel doing with Fed money.

It was a travesty, that last year, Intel got Billions in tax payer money, and then gave it to shareholders.
If Intel had kept that money and invested it, this situation would not be as bad as it is now.
But you can be sure that Intel is going to beg for more and more money from US and EU tax payers.
 

StereoVsn

Member
The problem is not just this current board ad CEO. Mismanagement has been going on for many years, the problem is that it's consequences are now in full display.



It was a travesty, that last year, Intel got Billions in tax payer money, and then gave it to shareholders.
If Intel had kept that money and invested it, this situation would not be as bad as it is now.
But you can be sure that Intel is going to beg for more and more money from US and EU tax payers.
Basically it needs a GM style takeover when GM went bankrupt. And yeah, it’s obviously not just C suite or the board, but cleanup has to start there.

Hell, maybe a congressional committee investigation on financial mismanagement that could lead to someone going to jail could happen. It won’t, of course, but one could hope.

And any money given should have been stipulated that no stock buyback or dividend is allowed.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Basically it needs a GM style takeover when GM went bankrupt. And yeah, it’s obviously not just C suite or the board, but cleanup has to start there.

Hell, maybe a congressional committee investigation on financial mismanagement that could lead to someone going to jail could happen. It won’t, of course, but one could hope.

And any money given should have been stipulated that no stock buyback or dividend is allowed.
Boeing is in similar circumstances now. They are doing those stock buybacks while outsourcing important work trying to drive down costs.

And here we are with their space program tanking, aircraft production in shambles and you just know they are going to ask for a bailout soon.

US government will bail them out as there is no choice (same as Intel), but management should be held accountable including going to jail and upper management fired without any golden 🪂 .

Hell, what really needs to happen is overhaul of Wall Street regulations as next quarter financials based results capitalism is a disaster. But once again, that will never happen.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
The fab spinoff would be interesting for them. The only reason they were performance leaders for so long was their fabrication advantage, once they lost their edge there we see what happened. Could be a beginning of the end move for them unless they step up on chip innovations big time.
 

winjer

Gold Member
The fab spinoff would be interesting for them. The only reason they were performance leaders for so long was their fabrication advantage, once they lost their edge there we see what happened. Could be a beginning of the end move for them unless they step up on chip innovations big time.

In a way, Intel is already doing that.
Several skus of Arrow Lake are being made at TSMC.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Kind of sound as intel has been around forever. The whole x86 model was because of intel.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Intel is being run into the ground, but unlike a company like Boeing, it's being done by the engineers. Gelsinger is an engineer, he helped design some of the best Intel chips.

The last thing they should be doing is talking to Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs about how to pawn some of their business off to get some cash. The foundry business is a capital investment. The point of a capital investment is that you spend money now and it will pay off later. Does anyone seriously think that the foundry needs are going to decrease in the future? The chance of Intel Foundry being more important and profitable than Intel CPU down is extremely high, considering that x86 is dying a slow death. This is just crazy. Intel should be talking about ways to go private if anything, if that could be on the table.

If this is the case, their board and whole C suite needs to be fired. What a fucking disaster.

And there are starting to be some pointed questions in Congress on WTF is Intel doing with Fed money.
The Chips Act is a piece of shit law, but I don't think Intel is doing anything untoward or wasteful with the money. Building a foundry is a serious project.
 
Last edited:

StereoVsn

Member
Intel is being run into the ground, but unlike a company like Boeing, it's being done by the engineers. Gelsinger is an engineer, he helped design some of the best Intel chips.

The last thing they should be doing is talking to Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs about how to pawn some of their business off to get some cash. The foundry business is a capital investment. The point of a capital investment is that you spend money now and it will pay off later. Does anyone seriously think that the foundry needs are going to decrease in the future? The chance of Intel Foundry being more important and profitable than Intel CPU down is extremely high, considering that x86 is dying a slow death. This is just crazy. Intel should be talking about ways to go private if anything, if that could be on the table.


The Chips Act is a piece of shit law, but I don't think Intel is doing anything untoward or wasteful with the money. Building a foundry is a serious project.
Well, yes, Wall Street vultures and consultants should be kept away far from Intel.

But issue is engineers or not, their management have been fairly incompetent. And they have been trying to pull off some dumb shit trying to get stock to go back up.

Also, they did $2.1B buyback back in 2021 when there was no good reason for that shit.

Fabs certainly take a long time to build and are a very complex animal. However, considering Intel’s announced delays and job cuts, one can’t help but think that chances are they won’t meet their obligations.
 
Last edited:

diffusionx

Gold Member
Well, yes, Wall Street vultures and consultants should be kept away far from Intel.

But issue is engineers or not, their management have been fairly incompetent. And they have been trying to pull off some dumb shit trying to get stock to go back up.

Also, they did $2.1B buyback back in 2021 when there was no good reason for that shit.

Fabs certainly take a long time to build and are a very complex animal. However, considering Intel’s announced delays and job cuts, one can’t help but think that chances are they won’t meet their obligations.

I feel like we are on the same page. Stock buybacks is financial engineering. The move to foundries was a response to what Intel correctly saw happening, which was them losing their primary market of x86 chips. In ten years the entire world might be ARM. TSMC cant handle all the capacity now let alone what will be needed in the future. The idea that they might be making most or all of their money by building ARM chips instead of selling x86 chips is very plausible.

So what do the finance scumbags tell them. Sell the foundries. WTF. The right move is investing in the foundries and fixing the issues you are seeing.
 
Last edited:

winjer

Gold Member
Intel is being run into the ground, but unlike a company like Boeing, it's being done by the engineers. Gelsinger is an engineer, he helped design some of the best Intel chips.

The last thing they should be doing is talking to Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs about how to pawn some of their business off to get some cash. The foundry business is a capital investment. The point of a capital investment is that you spend money now and it will pay off later. Does anyone seriously think that the foundry needs are going to decrease in the future? The chance of Intel Foundry being more important and profitable than Intel CPU down is extremely high, considering that x86 is dying a slow death. This is just crazy. Intel should be talking about ways to go private if anything, if that could be on the table.

The Chips Act is a piece of shit law, but I don't think Intel is doing anything untoward or wasteful with the money. Building a foundry is a serious project.

The problem is that Gelsinger, being an engineer, knows what products need to be made and how to make them.
But he probably lacks the skill to organize the company, when it's in such a poor state of internal organization.
The picture that Lip-Bu Tan paints of Intel, is very dire.

Lip-Bu Tan, a high-profile board member of Intel, has now resigned, as per the reporting by Reuters.

Officially, Tan cited his "various commitments" as the stimulus behind his exit, asserting that he remained "supportive" of Intel's turnaround strategy. Privately though, Tan his purportedly voiced a litany of grievances.

To Tan, Intel appears a bloated mess with inertia-inducing layers of bureaucracy, including an army of middle managers who thwart innovation at the company's desktop and server divisions.

To put Intel's bloat into context, some of the teams are currently operating with a headcount that is five times the size of the given teams at the company's rivals doing comparable work.

Some of Intel's former executives, as quoted by Reuters, see its work culture as complacent and uncompetitive, which is a material deviation from the "only-the-paranoid-survive" maxim of the company's co-founder, Andy Grove.

In fact, with Intel employing more people than NVIDIA or TSMC, a former executive believes Intel should have doubled its recent layoffs, and implemented that culling years ago.
 

Bernoulli

M2 slut
Not a lover of the company. But the chip world needs a strong intel That’s being pushed to innovate with competitive products. Although that might totally alien in concept and beyond them these days

But it can all turn around. It was only a few years ago, amd shares where around $1.

Maybe this is what intel needs to refocus and fight off becoming another or further out of touch tech dinosaur ?
i don't see intel recovering from this, a new chip company is what we need for better competition from taiwan, korea or china
Japan has sony, samsung is trying with exynos chips but their foundry and chip team don't work together
 

ShaiKhulud1989

Gold Member
This meme is eerly relatable. We all need strong Intel just for the pricing sake.
qmh8L0k.png
 

marquimvfs

Member
Yes intel is in much better shape than AMD
Intel have higher volume than AMD, but losses and debt have corroded the company value. No matter how much more they sell vs AMD, they are in a bad situation and their market value is lower than competition now.
 

marquimvfs

Member
It's about to become a lot less within the next few years.
Not necessarily, it depends on AMD managing to increase it's production. For that to happen, AMD needs to balance it's console APU production, GPU and the new AI products. I don't see that coming, even if they manage to buy more foundry capacity, I don't see them prioritizing CPU over more lucrative products.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
I want Intel to recover due to not wanting Asia taking all semiconductors business, but they've done and still do so much shit I don't feel like them succeeding is a good thing either... Damn...
 

Chiggs

Gold Member
Never in a million years I would have thought Intel would be at this point, unless it is their way to beg for money from the government.

That's exactly what their plan is; that and praying that China nukes Taiwan.

Intel truly is good and fucked, and I think some people are starting to come around to just how bleak things are. Look who they're up against:
  1. Nvidia
  2. ARM
  3. AMD
Buh-bye!

Even if their next consumer CPUs are good...it won't be enough.

Yes intel is in much better shape than AMD

I see posts like this and I wonder, "what color is the sky on your planet?"
 
Last edited:

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
i don't see intel recovering from this, a new chip company is what we need for better competition from taiwan, korea or china
Japan has sony, samsung is trying with exynos chips but their foundry and chip team don't work together
It is difficult to trust your competitor with manufacturing your chips when their chip design and manufacturing teams share too much or are perceived to be too close.
 
Last edited:
That's exactly what their plan is; that and praying that China nukes Taiwan.

Intel truly is good and fucked, and I think some people are starting to come around to just how bleak things are. Look who they're up against:
  1. Nvidia
  2. ARM
  3. AMD
Buh-bye!

Even if their next consumer CPUs are good...it won't be enough.



I see posts like this and I wonder, "what color is the sky on your planet?"
Wow that is an awesome website. Thanks for posting that
 
Top Bottom