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[Instigator]

Don't shoot the messenger...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0831-04.htm

New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.

On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

And while we're on the subject...

Iraq War Costs Now Exceed Vietnam's

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0901-02.htm

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Treasury is paying out more each month to sustain the war in Iraq than it did during the Vietnam War, according to a new report that calls the ongoing conflict "the most expensive military effort in the last 60 years".

The 84-page report, "The Iraq Quagmire: The Mounting Costs of the Iraq War and the Case for Bringing the Troops Home", says that the total bill for the war in Iraq has come to some 204 billion dollars, or an average of 727 dollars per U.S. citizen, not counting an additional 45 billion dollars which is currently pending before Congress.

The report, which comes as Congress braces itself for the multi-billion costs of cleaning up after the unprecedented devastation inflicted this week on New Orleans and the broader Gulf Coast by Hurricane Katrina, also does not include at least another 25-billion-dollar request that the Pentagon is believed to be preparing to sustain operations in Iraq and Afghanistan into next year.

If the $204 billion appropriated for the war so far had been used instead for social programs...it could have paid for the health care of the more than 46 million citizens ... the hiring of 3.5 million elementary school teachers, or the construction of affordable housing units for nearly two million people.

"While fewer troops are in Iraq, the weapons they use are more expensive and they are paid more than their counterparts who served in Vietnam," according to the report, which noted that at current rates, Washington could spend more than 700 billion dollars over 10 years -- 100 billion dollars more than the total cost of the Vietnam War.

And there's updated casualty numbers and all that stuff in that article.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Bush's approval rating just dropped another few points.

 

[belgurdo]

Four more years...

Bush will keep us safe...

We will prosper...

 

[ToxicAdam]

Whats this .. the third time this article has been posted now?


This is from the head of the Corps of Engineers:

These (projects) were not funded at the full ability of the Corps of Engineers to execute the project," said Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, commander of the Army Corps of Engineers. "But the important question is, 'Would that have made a difference?' And my assessment is, no, it would not."

So the point is moot.

 

[Instigator]

But my topic has two articles!

 

[chinch]

dum-dum's approval rating is irrelvant since it's his second term.

the bright side of this terrible ordeal that is still unfolding is it will FORCE our (inept) government to rethink policies (overseas vs neglecting our homeland) and hasten a pull out of iraq, etc.

 

[myzhi]

Let me get this right, government spent $480 million in 40+ years to try to fix the problem, but the major blame falls on Bush for 1-2 years of reduction in money? So, 40+ years didn't fix the problem, but 1-2 years will because we all know major government projects have quick turnovers? Thanks for clearing it up. Also, it's been posted by others that Clinton and other president have beening leeching money away from the project for years. Bush is a dumbass, but you people are grasping at strays.

 

[DarienA]

the bright side of this terrible ordeal that is still unfolding is it will FORCE our (inept) government to rethink policies (overseas vs neglecting our homeland) and hasten a pull out of iraq, etc.

God I hope so....

 

[3rdman]

dum-dum's approval rating is irrelvant since it's his second term.

If his approval ratings drop significantly before the 2006 elections, we could see a major shift in the senate and, I imagine, proper investigations into the war and 9/11 wouldn't be far behind.

 

[chinch]

If his approval ratings drop significantly before the 2006 elections, we could see a major shift in the senate and, I imagine, proper investigations into the war and 9/11 wouldn't be far behind.

I hear you, but most state/local elections dont' follow the presidential approval ratings.

Either way, the totally INEPT RESPONSE to this tragety will bring about alot of investigations far worse than can be imagined. The lack of leadership and proper handling of this tragety is shameful and criminal

 

[Macam]

The Iraq war has drowned a lot of things really.

 

[qirex]

I'd say that the fact that a whole lot of our national guard is currently in the sandbox instead of in the US is one of the things making relief so difficult.

 

[LakeEarth]

I am just amazed how something they dubbed "homeland security" is the reason why so many americans are dying right now.

 

[Razoric]

In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

:O :O

 

[Vieo]

If his approval ratings drop significantly before the 2006 elections, we could see a major shift in the senate and, I imagine, proper investigations into the war and 9/11 wouldn't be far behind.

I can only dream. Seeing Bush impeached would rock. The only thing better than that would be if they made him do a "Walk of Shame" from the White House door to it's gate where everyone gets to give him a kick in the ass while he walks by with a dunce cap on.

 

[DarienA]

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

:O :O

Ouch is this true? If so I'd love someone to call his ass on this during a press conference.

 

[Instigator]

Let me get this right, government spent $480 million in 40+ years to try to fix the problem, but the major blame falls on Bush for 1-2 years of reduction in money? So, 40+ years didn't fix the problem, but 1-2 years will because we all know major government projects have quick turnovers?

The 400+ millions was for the last 10 years. This initiative was taken after New Orleans was flooded in the mid nineties.

You can argue the project wouldn't have saved anyone anyway (?), but cutting corners looks bad when you have massive lost of life and economic damage.

 

[Slurpy]

The irony, oh the irony. The Iraq war is making us safer at home indeed.

 

[Shinobi]

Heh...just another example of bad optics for the Bush administration. But this bullshit goes far beyond them...frankly blame goes all the way back to the dunderheads who thought building a city under sea level with bodies of water on three sides was a bright idea.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

I'm surprised there isn't more outrage at Bush for this. This could very well be the thing that fucks over Republicans for any shot in 2006 and 2008. Then again, Republicans could rape their mothers while pouring sugar in their gas tanks and there'd still be a long line of people willing to vote for them.

 

[Mumbles]

Heh...just another example of bad optics for the Bush administration. But this bullshit goes far beyond them...frankly blame goes all the way back to the dunderheads who thought building a city under sea level with bodies of water on three sides was a bright idea.

It wasn't under sea level when it was founded. Note the implication - the problem will continue to get worse as time goes on, which means that NO needs either a long-term commitment from the federal gov't, or to be abandoned entirely. Unfortunately, I suspect that neither will happen.

So the point is moot.

That's not the way it works. Bush was not able to predict when a major hurricane would hit NO when he is doing his budget, but he *was* able to predict that an event like this will happen sooner or later, especially since he was told that it was one of the most likely disasters that the US faced. Because of this, he should have made the protection of the city a budget priority. For him to instead cut budgeting for the projects, regardless of reason, shows poor planning on his part (and no, congress doesn't get away from this, either, as they're the ones who are supposed to be holding the pursestrings)

 

[Ruzbeh]

Heh...just another example of bad optics for the Bush administration. But this bullshit goes far beyond them...frankly blame goes all the way back to the dunderheads who thought building a city under sea level with bodies of water on three sides was a bright idea.

I thought the city wasn't below city level when it was being built? Also, don't call us dunderheads (dutch). Half the friggin' Netherlands is well below sea level, and look, we're doin' fine! WHOO!

The point is that the damage would have been far, far less. And I find it amazing and mind-boggling that help arrived so incredibly, incredibly late. I wonder how many people died. I pray to God it's not more than a thousand.

 

[Azih]

I think cutting the funding for the levies was bad optics (and a bad decision besides).

The real issue here is 1) Why was the 4 days of warning not used better and 2)why was the aftermath so horrifically handled?

Point 1. seems to be a knock on mostly municipal and state governments while 2. is just a Huge Federeal screwup.

 

[Shinobi]

I thought the city wasn't below city level when it was being built? Also, don't call us dunderheads (dutch). Half the friggin' Netherlands is well below sea level, and look, we're doin' fine! WHOO!

:lol Hey, I've got nothing against the Dutch! And if NO was built above sea level, then that takes those guys off the hook. But for all the ridiculous planning that's gone on since then, not building the leevees to withstand level five storms or not putting in the money to bring them up to that spec, they're all idiots who deserve just as much blame as the current administration.

Where this administration deserves to be hung by their fucking nuts ahead of anyone else is the aftermath.

 

[Ruzbeh]

not building the leevees to withstand level five storms or not putting in the money to bring them up to that spec

Of course, the Bush administration prevented them from having enough money!