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[Agent Icebeezy]

If so, shouldn't Silicon Knights be billionaires for their camera work in Eternal Darkness? Camera work is 2nd only to control for me regards to game factors that kill a game for me. Honestly, is making a camera system that isn't frustrating that hard?

 

[SantaC]

I agree. The camrea in Eternal Darkness was pretty amazing.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Eternal Darkness is a very linear game and as such it's relatively easy to program the camera from room to room. It is also an indoors only game. No free roaming of any kind. And while the presentation is superb, for an action adventure game Eternal Darkness is rather bland.

Take for instance a game with a character that is constantly jumping around performing all kinds of attacks with non-stop action happening from all angles. Ninja Gaiden comes to mind. Programming a camera for that kind of game can be a daunting task.

I think for it's genre The Zelda 3D games have the best camera work overall. Nintendo however has a patent on their camera coding as such other developers cannot benefit from it.

 

[master15]

Say what you want about Eternal Darkness, but the game had some of the best, cinemas, voice-acting and cameras I've seen out of the current generation of games. In many senses Silicon Knights took a page out of Capcom's book with pre-rendered backdrops, with fixed camera locations, except the camera was a lot more intuitive, and between these fixed camera angles, it at times followed the character, panned back to reveal an area and really was very dynamic.

I remember reading something about Too Human, and Dyack once again has put strong emphasis on the camera, which is going to be much tricker to control, give the fast combat system we've heard about in the game. Be interesting if it will be as polished as Eternal Darkness.

 

[Nander]

I just recently played through Eternal Darkness, and it's definately the best game for Gamecube after Resident Evil 4. Just amazing game, with a truly intresting story.

The other day it striked me that Mario 64 as one of the first 3D-games (or at least one of the first with 3D-control) has an excellent camera

 

[MomoPufflet]

Eternal Darkness is a very linear game and as such it's relatively easy to program the camera from room to room. It is also an indoors only game. No free roaming of any kind. And while the presentation is superb, for an action adventure game Eternal Darkness is rather bland.

Take for instance a game with a character that is constantly jumping around performing all kinds of attacks with non-stop action happening from all angles. Ninja Gaiden comes to mind. Programming a camera for that kind of game can be a daunting task.

I think for it's genre The Zelda 3D games have the best camera work overall. Nintendo however has a patent on their camera coding as thus other developers cannot benefit from it.

IAWTP

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Eternal Darkness is a very linear game and as such it's relatively easy to program the camera from room to room. It is also an indoors only game. No free roaming of any kind. And while the presentation is superb, for an action adventure game Eternal Darkness is rather bland.

Take for instance a game with a character that is constantly jumping around performing all kinds of attacks with non-stop action happening from all angles. Ninja Gaiden comes to mind. Programming a camera for that kind of game can be a daunting task.

I think for it's genre The Zelda 3D games have the best camera work overall. Nintendo however has a patent on their camera coding as thus other developers cannot benefit from it.

A lot of games are linear in that fashion. The pans and sweeps it makes simply dominate other games of it's ilk.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I just recently played through Eternal Darkness, and it's definately the best game for Gamecube after Resident Evil 4. Just amazing game, with a truly intresting story.

The other day it striked me that Mario 64 as one of the first 3D-games (or at least one of the first with 3D-control) has an excellent camera

What. Mario 64 had a crappy camera. Go play it again.

Sunshine, however, worked quite well.

 

[tanasten]

Back ago when Mario 64 was released, I never have had problems with the cámera system. Now a days, playing it on the DS version I must say isn't as good as I thougth it was.

In any case, I think Mario 64 worked pretty amazingly well because the desing of the N64 controler, with the C buttons passing the camera control to the player and solving the problem in a lot of ways.

Then, why on the DS it looks so awnful the camera?

Yeah, it's the interface.

Mario DS should have been redefined on this aspect, but hey, they added the back camera button with "R" that works so quite well!

 

[AdmiralViscen]

If you use the thumbstrap, then camera rotation is controlled with the X and Y buttons. Works magnificently.

 

[tanasten]

Thumbstrap losing his center is the baddest thing I have played. Don't care tought, I love how the game plays with the digital pad; curiously I have arrived quite more far on the Ds than on the 64. (never got 120 stars :~ and now I'm at 139)

 

[AdmiralViscen]

The thumbstrap just takes a bit of getting used to. Just wanted you to know that Nintendo didn't totally ignore your concerns about camera control in SM64DS.

 

[MomoPufflet]

I can't say I remember Mario 64's camera, but I do remember Sunshine's camera was horrible. Constant babysitting nonsense.

 

[tanasten]

Sunshine's camera was better than Mario 64, but the problem is the stage desing wich troubles with hundreds of obstacules to the camera. I think I have played a lot of 3D games by now, and the best easy-to-follow cameras are for those games that are stright linear desing stages.

I will say, ey, keep stages simple with very low detail or keep swapping free and on-rail camera system a la banjo Kazooie (wich of course, lacks of a great camera path desing).

Camera and obstacles are the nightmare of every 3D game developer.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Honestly, is making a camera system that isn't frustrating that hard?

Yes.

 

[[Nintex]]

Honestly, is making a camera system that isn't frustrating that hard?[/QUOTE]
Go play 3D sonic games...

 

[DaCocoBrova]

3D Sonic games are the worst offender(s) IMO.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

In many senses Silicon Knights took a page out of Capcom's book with pre-rendered backdrops, with fixed camera locations, except the camera was a lot more intuitive, and between these fixed camera angles, it at times followed the character, panned back to reveal an area and really was very dynamic.

Code Veronica and Onimusha 3 basically feel this way too. The biggest difference I can see is that Eternal Darkness pretty much sticks to an "up is always north" rule, whereas the camera angle jumps around a bit more in those Capcom games. I think the camera works really well in all three cases.

I think for it's genre The Zelda 3D games have the best camera work overall. Nintendo however has a patent on their camera coding as such other developers cannot benefit from it.

Personally I don't think Zelda really nailed it until Wind Waker. In OoT the camera would wander off on its own too often, and there was no right stick to nudge it back in the right direction.

The other day it striked me that Mario 64 as one of the first 3D-games (or at least one of the first with 3D-control) has an excellent camera

What I like about Mario 64's camera is that you just occasionally need to give it a quick suggestion - zoom out a bit more, rotate this way a little - and then it mostly takes care of itself.

 

[puck1337]

SK hired academic researchers to help with the camera and it paid off. It's a shame about the lack of variety in combat and magic, because the camera made gameplay very satisfying.

 

[fresquito]

Mario64 camera was great for its time. It hasn´t aged that good, but still it´s very competent. Much more than many recent games.

 

[Warm Machine]

3D Sonic games are the worst offender(s) IMO.

They are the worst. That and the fidgety character controls that snap and pop. It completely killed Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 for me. Haven't played a Sonic game since.