Is this Nivea ad really racist?

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Milchjon said:
Nivea just pulled this ad after a public outcry.

Am I wrong in thinking that calling this ad racist is racist itself? If the guy was white, no one would care.
(There's another ad with a white man, but with another headline, which might be the thing that causes the complaints. But even then I think you have to want to understand it that way?)
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Intent is not always what matters when it comes to imagery.

Damn, Nivea can I get a six figure salary telling you guys what not to put in your ads?
 
The_Technomancer said:
No but this is:
psp-black-white-ad.jpg
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I raise you

jnynN.jpg
 
thezerofire said:
no but apparently having an afro is uncivilized
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Mayor Nutter said that when you show up to a job interview with a pick in your hair and your pants sagging not to blame the white man when you can't get a job.

The entire 30 minute speech is amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXwCOcBjpbg

There is so much more here than what the articles suggested. 29:32 is especially relevant here.
lightless_shado said:
An Afro is an example of a natural black hairstyle. In the western world, black people(men and especially women) are not encouraged to have their natural hair, be it cornrows, braids, dreadlocks, whatever.
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And the natural hairstyles of white hippies are not going to be encouraged or tolerated in a traditional office setting either. If you are applying for a job at a place like Disney, black or white, clean cut is what is demanded.

Though they have relaxed their standards over the years due to PC pressure.
 
The_Technomancer said:
No but this is:
psp-black-white-ad.jpg
Click to expand...
Yeah, I read more into this. See, that was one of three ads, run at the same time in the Netherlands. Here is anther ad from the same campaign (And was put up at the same time), but no few seem to cry foul and say its racists.

2bbp1k.jpg



And the one where they are on equal footing
2modt1f.jpg



They really are crappy ads though, crop the PSPs out and you would have no clue what it was for.
 
captmcblack said:
Okay, so why didn't the ad agency do it with a white person instead?
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They did, just not with the same text - which was their mistake, since the "re-civilize yourself" part in connection with a black man obviously didn't sit right with many people. But should black people just not be used in ads at all, since someone will always find something racist about it? Yeah, that would be great, because it certainly wouldn't be considered racist to only use white people in your ads. Right?
 
When black people have been looked down upon in our society and been deemed "uncivilized", yeah I can see why people are mad. I know some of GAF likes to look at the US and act like racism doesn't exist but the stigma is there. Also when you then take same concept of the ad and apply to a white male but say nothing about being "uncivilized" you make it a whole lot worse on yourself. They did the right thing by pulling the ad.
 
Drkirby said:
Yeah, I read more into this. See, that was one of three ads, run at the same time in the Netherlands. Here is anther ad from the same campaign (And was put up at the same time), but no few seem to cry foul and say its racists.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2bbp1k.jpg[IMG]


And the one where they are on equal footing (Again, all there of these were put up on bill boards in the nation at the same time)
[IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/2modt1f.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
Eh, I'd still call that racist, just not as horribly as I had first thought. Depicting the launch of a consumer product as an interracial cat-fight is still really tasteless.

Either way though, one thing is for sure: the various marketing teams hired for the PSP were all fucking nuts.
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The_Technomancer said:
Eh, I'd still call that racist, just not as horribly as I had first thought. Depicting the launch of a consumer product as an interracial cat-fight is still really tasteless.

Either way though, one thing is for sure: the various marketing teams hired for the PSP were all fucking nuts.
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Yep, the PSP marketing team was full of idiots. In fact, the entire game divisions marketing team. Don't forget the Playstation Penis Thumb ad .

NSFW
http://www.hollywoodgrind.com/images/2008/5/playstation-3-thumb-dick-ad-nsfw-2.jpg
 
RoadHazard said:
They did, just not with the same text - which was their mistake, since the "re-civilize yourself" part in connection with a black man obviously didn't sit right with many people. But should black people just not be used in ads at all, since someone will always find something racist about it? Yeah, that would be great, because it certainly wouldn't be considered racist to only use white people in your ads. Right?
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exactly. a white man in a "civilized" ad would have raised the question: so we need white people to dispay someone civilized?
 
RoadHazard said:
They did, just not with the same text - which was their mistake, since the "re-civilize yourself" part in connection with a black man obviously didn't sit right with many people. But should black people just not be used in ads at all, since someone will always find something racist about it? Yeah, that would be great, because it certainly wouldn't be considered racist to only use white people in your ads. Right?
Click to expand...
And there's the rub. White people are "safe" and inoffensive, but limiting your casting to them is racist. What can be done? So long as there are people in this world who wake up every morning raring to get offended, nothing at all. Just sit back and enjoy not being a total moron, I guess.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Eh, I'd still call that racist, just not as horribly as I had first thought. Depicting the launch of a consumer product as an interracial cat-fight is still really tasteless.

Either way though, one thing is for sure: the various marketing teams hired for the PSP were all fucking nuts.
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Not interracial. Just inter-skin colour. We HAVE different skin colours. But whe're all fucking human.

Or am i waaay too naieve here?

Drkirby said:
Yep, the PSP marketing team was full of idiots. In fact, the entire game divisions marketing team. Don't forget the Playstation Penis Thumb ad .

NSFW
http://www.hollywoodgrind.com/images/2008/5/playstation-3-thumb-dick-ad-nsfw-2.jpg
Click to expand...


is that.. a ... thumb?
 
Always-honest said:
Not interracial. Just inter-skin colour. We HAVE different skin colours. But whe're all fucking human.

Or am i waaay too naieve here?
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I agree with you, its just a term thats entered the zeitionary. (Yes I totally made word that up)
 
I just had this discussion a couple days ago with my coworker. Its not much racist, its that society believes that as a black person growing your hair out is seen as dirty and unprofessional. Where for black men, having it short and tight and for black women permed and straight is more desirable and those hair styles are more closely resembled to white hair styles. Its really a weird dynamic of being ashamed to display our natural hair styles.
 
alternade said:
I just had this discussion a couple days ago with my coworker. Its not much racist, its that society believes that as a black person growing your hair out is seen as dirty and unprofessional. Where for black men, having it short and tight and for black women permed and straight is more desirable and those hair styles are more closely resembled to white hair styles. Its really a weird dynamic of being ashamed to display our natural hair styles.
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Thinking about it I have only seen a handful of black male professionals with the Afro look but these are usually older guys 40-50+ years old who already established themselves for years. I think girls can get away with it I have seen plenty of black girls show up for work with an Afro.

But the natural hairstyle movement with women seems to making a comeback when I went to my sisters college graduation almost all the black girls were rocking the natural look. My sister works with the CDC in Florida and she still has her natural look.
 
alternade said:
I just had this discussion a couple days ago with my coworker. Its not much racist, its that society believes that as a black person growing your hair out is seen as dirty and unprofessional. Where for black men, having it short and tight and for black women permed and straight is more desirable and those hair styles are more closely resembled to white hair styles. Its really a weird dynamic of being ashamed to display our natural hair styles.
Click to expand...

What's a "natural hair style"? The way it naturally is if you don't cut it much, which would often mean an afro for a black guy? OK, so I guess "natural" for a white guy would be to just let the hair grow out into a glorious 80s heavy metal mane then (which would also be considered pretty "unprofessional")? Cutting it short is equally "unnatural" no matter your skin color, by that logic.

Or is it more to do with the common natural curliness of black people's hair? I don't know, this talk about "natural hair styles" is just very weird to me. But maybe I'm missing some cultural thing here.
 
Sometimes I can't help but think that many corporate marketing divisions intentionally manufacture controversial ads and pull them immediately, as a way of generating more recognition of their brand. If the Nivea ad wasn't this blatant, certainly others have been historically (e.g PSP ad mentioned above).

RustyNails said:
I wonder how shit like this goes past the executive level. I mean, how the fuck.
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Not only am I sure executives sign off on this stuff, I wouldn't doubt they might even encourage it.
 
RoadHazard said:
What's a "natural hair style"? The way it naturally is if you don't cut it much, which would often mean an afro for a black guy? OK, so I guess "natural" for a white guy would be to just let the hair grow out into a glorious 80s heavy metal mane then (which would also be considered pretty "unprofessional")? Cutting it short is equally "unnatural" no matter your skin color, by that logic.

I don't know, this talk about "natural hair styles" is just very weird to me.
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With the men I guess that would be so, its either grow your hair or cut it!

But for black women to get that straight hair that the public like, they have to put harmful chemicals in their hair (perm), years of this will do harmful damage to the hair/skin discoloration and hair loss.

These days I am seeing more and more black women just leaving their hair natural and styling it in a way that would be considered an a natural hairstyle for black women!

Black men used to do this to long ago like 50's - 60's use chemicals to straighten their hair and have hairstyles you would typically see on a white person hair texture.
 
Deified Data said:
And there's the rub. White people are "safe" and inoffensive, but limiting your casting to them is racist. What can be done? So long as there are people in this world who wake up every morning raring to get offended, nothing at all. Just sit back and enjoy not being a total moron, I guess.
Click to expand...

How about just feature the ad without being subtly racist? Deal?

Shit, to me the term civilize isn't what I'm noticing. It's the insinuation that having an afro is bad. Which has been a long standing issue for black people...this notion that our hair is terrible and we should make it less noticeable and straighten it to fit in.

For men it's less of an issue. For women though, it's a serious issue. This notion that one must get their hair permed/straightened.
 
RoadHazard said:
What's a "natural hair style"? The way it naturally is if you don't cut it much, which would often mean an afro for a black guy? OK, so I guess "natural" for a white guy would be to just let the hair grow out into a glorious 80s heavy metal mane then (which would also be considered pretty "unprofessional")? Cutting it short is equally "unnatural" no matter your skin color, by that logic.

I don't know, this talk about "natural hair styles" is just very weird to me.
Click to expand...

When I say natural, I dont mean messy and unkempt like they just rolled out of bed. I mean just letting the hair grow out. Black hair is fundamentally different in every way to white hair, from the way it grows to how to maintain it.

Thats why it is tricky. I personally have had people I work with come up and touch my hair and exclaim "OH! Your growing your hair out!!!!" like they've never seen afro hair before, which they honestly may have never experienced. But the fact that its such and oddity for them is because for some reason or another black people have bought into the idea that in order to be taken seriously in the working world that we have to to be "better than" and the " look" is a major part of that.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
How about just feature the ad without being subtly racist? Deal?

Shit, to me the term civilize isn't what I'm noticing. It's the insinuation that having an afro is bad. Which has been a long standing issue for black people...this notion that our hair is terrible and we should make it less noticeable and straighten it to fit in.

For men it's less of an issue. For women though, it's a serious issue. This notion that one must get their hair permed/straightened.
Click to expand...

It used to be a pretty big issue for black men. If you've read Malcolm X's autobiography, he describes the lengths he went to to get his hair conked. I think it's only been in the last two-three decades or so that it's become more socially acceptable for black men to embrace less normative hair styles (e.g. afros, high fades in the 80s and 90s).
 
Ellis Kim said:
I think the problem is the "re-civilize" part.
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Why? Do you inherently associate black people with being uncivilised?

I don't even think the PSP ad is racist anyway, peoples are just crazy...
 
Korey said:
It's only not racist if you ignore all historical, social, cultural contexts
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I'll probably get flamed for this, but I think they should be ignored. If we can't get past all that (this goes for both black and white people), how can we move on and simply be people of various colors? If either "group" keeps holding onto all that stuff, never letting it go, that can never happen.

alternade said:
When I say natural, I dont mean messy and unkempt like they just rolled out of bed. I mean just letting the hair grow out. Black hair is fundamentally different in every way to white hair, from the way it grows to how to maintain it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that. But like I said, a white man can't just let his hair grow out and be "natural" either. It wouldn't be considered professional.

And the person in the ad (well, the disembodied head) doesn't really have a well-groomed afro, it's pretty unkempt and messy. Maybe they should have let the "re-civilized" guy have a nice-looking afro rather than none at all.
 
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