robertsan21
Member
once again aint it cool has the news:
great news, i would have just died if someone else played the part
great news, i would have just died if someone else played the part
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Jackman to star in the Wolverine Spinoff
- Thread starter robertsan21
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NintendosBooger
Member
Wolverine can't carry a whole movie on his own. Spider-man can because he's a dynamic character with dynamic foes; Batman can because of the dual-layer in storyline caused by two personalities and the crime-solving element. Wolverine is just too one-dimensional, like Punisher.
NintendosBooger said:
you'd be surprised... imagine a Wolverine movie that tells both his "origin" story of his youth and his Weapon X period, all interwoven into an interesting movie. You wouldn't just have Wolverine going around slicing people up for 2 hours--instead you'd have alot of how Wolverine became Wolverine.
I'm glad for this. I was kind of hoping they would tie into the next Xmen movie and leave him out of it saying he's off doing his own thing, like he does in the comics. Because of his popularity in the comics i'm afraid of them falling back on his character as a crutch and making the movies too much Wolverine and the X-men like the first two have been.
VictimOfGrief
Banned
Honestly Ratner will prove himself with this movie. It will be different for him but I'm guessing it will be his "breakout" movie that truly makes him a good director.
robertsan21
Member
it seems that there is alot of complaining about Brett directing X3 on this board...
give the man a chance i am sure he will pull it of just as good as Singer did.
Wolverine is in my book more intressting than batman and superman combined!
give the man a chance i am sure he will pull it of just as good as Singer did.
Wolverine is in my book more intressting than batman and superman combined!
VictimOfGrief said:
He's a generic director and the script was written in six days from the geniuses that brought you "Elektra" and "xXx: State of the Union". That's not including all this bullshit with FOX mandating main players being killed off, some sex scene and controversial crap. Ratner can't completely ruin a movie, but he can't make it good either and from all indications, X-Men 3 is going to suck.
Leatherface
Member
Willco said:
Dear god this movie is doomed!
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Hmm I can see the studio execs " Let's kill anything that has anything to do with the X-Men Franchise, so when we lose the rites it will be deader then that guy from Milli Vanilli"
sol5377 said:
Does anyone want to see an hour of WOLVERINE: EX-MILITARY GUY lured into the Weapon X program? No. They want to see claws out, balls-to-the-walls action.
The problem with Wolverine in the comics they've completely ruined the mystery of his background, which made him intriguing and Marvel tries to force all this fake depth on the character. I like Wolverine for what he is, but let's face, the first two X-Men films are Wolverine films. All X2 dealt with was Weapon X for crying out loud.
robertsan21
Member
but its not Brett thats the problem here, its the script!
they have some semi talanted writers on X3
Simon Kinberg also did work on Charlies angels, Mr and Mrs smith so its not all bad!
Zak Penn was involved in X2 and that film tourned out quite ok
they have some semi talanted writers on X3
Simon Kinberg also did work on Charlies angels, Mr and Mrs smith so its not all bad!
Zak Penn was involved in X2 and that film tourned out quite ok
Willco said:
Well that is his backstory. X2 touched on Weapon X, but focused on Stryker's obsession to destroy all mutants.
Like Batman Begins, Wolverine "Begins" should tell the main story bits behind Wolverine, the character. To me, that means showing the Weapon X program and how he became intertwined in that, how he got his claws, how he become such a gifted killer, and how he lost most of his memories. The Origin storyline was also pretty well done, imo, and would add another coat of paint to Wolverine as a character, much like Batman's childhood experiences shaped what he became as an adult. People want to know Wolverine's history and it's an interesting story to tell (and it would make for a heck of a comic book movie if done right, imo).
I really do think Wolverine coudl carry his own movie. I don't think there'd be any room for sequels, but definitely even the line that Stryker told him: "You were an animal then, you're an animal now. All I did was give you claws!" seems like it'd make a pretty decent storyline.
robertsan21 said:
After being used to a good director, it's hard to downgrade to a generic director. Sorry.
No, they don't.
Kinberg was a script doctor on Full Throttle which was fucking horrible. Mr and Mrs Smith, his only decent project, is sitting at 67% on Rotten Tomatoes and let's look at what the critics are saying about the great Simon Kinberg's writing...
WOW. REALLY TALENTED.
Zak Penn had absolutely nothing to do with the script for X2. He helped come up with a few story concepts. Michael Dougherty and Dan Harris are the real masterminds behind X2, and they wrote the script. And unfortunately, Bryan Singer stole them when he left for Superman Returns.
sol5377 said:
The Origin comic book sucked ass... that would make a TERRIBLE movie.
His origin has already been covered... one problem with Wolverine is that Elektra gave us a crappy view of the Hand so they might be loathe to cover that portion of this story... which eliminates us getting to see Yuriko, the Silver Samurai, etc.... they aren't going to do an Alpha flight movie... they aren't going to do a movie on his secret agent days... but he's had countless stuff go on on his life in the US that would make for good movie adaptations.
robertsan21
Member
Willco said:
yes as i said its the writers that i am worried about for the X3 projekt!
i still say that Brett is not the problem for this project and i am sure he will be able to pull it off just as nice as Singer did.
but i guess we all will see that when X3 is released now wont we
Origin fucking sucked. I will be the first to admit that part of the problem was that wolverine's origin had been so anticipated for so many years that a real origin (much like the prequel trilogy) could have never lived up to the anticipation (though WeaponX in Marvel Comics Presents by BWS did a really fucking great job). but yeah, they shouldn't do Origin if they want the movie to make money.
And while Jackman IS Wolverine, part of that was due to the outstanding direction and decent writing of the first two movies. now that any and everyone associated with those two movies is over on Superman Returns (which will also rule the school) Wolverine will get fucked up by Fox... which certainly has to piss Jackman off.
And while Jackman IS Wolverine, part of that was due to the outstanding direction and decent writing of the first two movies. now that any and everyone associated with those two movies is over on Superman Returns (which will also rule the school) Wolverine will get fucked up by Fox... which certainly has to piss Jackman off.
They shouldn't touch the origin story or Weapon X. It's been done and done and done again. In comics. In cartoons. In the fucking movies. Just let Wolverine do what he does best -- investigate a missing girl/mutant/friend and somehow be jumped by ninjas or Sabretooth or Omega Red or a combination of all three. Then he whips out those claws and goes to work.
But borghe is right. Singer stole all the talent from the X-Men franchise and put them to work on Superman, which looks fan-fucking-tastic from the brief glimpes of Bryan's video blog. What's left is just actors and contract writers and a generic director and a FOX executive head that apparently is not fond of artistic vision. Rothman wants to "shake things up".
Now, I'm sure Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg are nice guys. Hell, they're probably half decent writers. But your script writers already have their documented weaknesses, it's not smart to compound your problems by adding studio mandated shit like random deaths, sex scenes and the like.
If X-Men 3 turns out to be any good, or Wolverine for that matter, FOX will be one to say they scored a modern fucking miracle.
But borghe is right. Singer stole all the talent from the X-Men franchise and put them to work on Superman, which looks fan-fucking-tastic from the brief glimpes of Bryan's video blog. What's left is just actors and contract writers and a generic director and a FOX executive head that apparently is not fond of artistic vision. Rothman wants to "shake things up".
Now, I'm sure Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg are nice guys. Hell, they're probably half decent writers. But your script writers already have their documented weaknesses, it's not smart to compound your problems by adding studio mandated shit like random deaths, sex scenes and the like.
If X-Men 3 turns out to be any good, or Wolverine for that matter, FOX will be one to say they scored a modern fucking miracle.
DarienA said:
The Origin, tweaked, could be quite good on the big screen (not by itself, but mixed with his weapon storyline), imo. It's hard to introduce some of Wolverine's other stories in his first movie because they seem to be way too out there to be in his first movie (ninja's all over the place, silver samurai, etc could be better sutied in his next movie).
sol5377 said:
So you want a Weapon X storyline with flashes back to the lame ass Origin storyline?
God you really want to put movie goers to sleep don't you....
Plus a Weapon X storyline is not going to be a Wolverine story... and the movie goers like the character Wolverine... the Weapon X character has no personality.
ToxicAdam said:Uncanny X-men #162. Wolverine alone on the Brood planet. Mah favorite book of all time.
Ah the Brood... good fun to be had with the Brood back in the day...no fun with the Brood in the current X-Men: The End.... I'm thinking of putting out a hit on Claremont.
DarienA said:
Yes
Well, to a heavily tweaked Origin story, anyway. The comic book had a lot of fluff and some strange parts, but I think the gist of it could be used. On the contrary, in fact. I want them to be ENTHRALLED. Moviegoers should feel like they're intimate with Wolverine's past, like they are with Superman, Spider-man and (soon to be) Batman.
Of course it is! The Weapon X would have as much (if not more) personality than the current movie Wolverine has.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I read Xmen for years and years just to follow Wolverine... and I am sure there were more than just a few readers who loved the layers of character that he has... I am very glad that he got his own movie and that I won't have to see many scenes with Cyclops...
I absolutely hate origin storylines for any comic book characters. That's the only thing that worries me about Batman, but I'll be giving it a hefty shot. I think the best example of this is Spawn...HORRIBLE movie. Like, towards the end I was starting to dig the character because he was learing to control everything, then the movie was over. What a rip-off.
Wolverine was always awesome because he was an anti-hero with a mysterious past. His lack of orign story is what makes his character so good.
I'm so tired of origin stories in comic book movies anyways. They all seem the same to me. Just show me his super powers, then fling him into action to save the girl or the world.
I'm so tired of origin stories in comic book movies anyways. They all seem the same to me. Just show me his super powers, then fling him into action to save the girl or the world.
Fox needs to stay the hell away from the brood... or did you guys forget what fox has done to the Alien franchise...
Fox Head: "So wait a minute, Aliens appeared in the X-Men comic? WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THIS!?!?? Quick, bring in the guys from Aliens vs. Predator and get them started on a script stat!! I'm thinking, Wolverine and comapny end up on a rocket ship and accidentally land on the Alien homeworld, only we can call them Brood this time instead of Aliens."
Fox Head: "So wait a minute, Aliens appeared in the X-Men comic? WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THIS!?!?? Quick, bring in the guys from Aliens vs. Predator and get them started on a script stat!! I'm thinking, Wolverine and comapny end up on a rocket ship and accidentally land on the Alien homeworld, only we can call them Brood this time instead of Aliens."
DarienA said:
It'd still be Hugh Jackman playing Logan in the movie. He'd be a part of the Weapon X program (government trained killer, brainwashed mutant, etc. etc.) and they'd eventually put the adamantium in him. He'd have plenty of opportunities to act/speak (more so than in the Xmen movies).
NintendosBooger
Member
A Wolverine movie can sell, but the character will need a pretty strong supporting cast in order to sustain a good flick. Wolverines personality is derived from the Eastwood, Man with no name, backdrop the gritty, cigar-smoking anti-hero and anti-hero movies are usually hit or miss, like a female redhead, and the strength of these movies are dependent upon the supporting characters that fall under the two sides of the extreme (good and evil).
And yes, Ive read enough Wolverine comics to understand that theres more to the man than meets the eye, but the allure cultivated by his mysterious background could be appreciated more by literary fans as opposed to mainstream moviegoers. Comic books fans and readers have no problem reading through hundreds of comics and waiting years for Wolverines past to be fully unfolded, but impatient moviegoers will expect everything about the character to be uncovered by the end of the movie. And this creates an issue because the interesting premise behind the Wolverine character is the suspenseful and drawn-out process he endures in attempting to piece together his shrouded past.
And yes, Ive read enough Wolverine comics to understand that theres more to the man than meets the eye, but the allure cultivated by his mysterious background could be appreciated more by literary fans as opposed to mainstream moviegoers. Comic books fans and readers have no problem reading through hundreds of comics and waiting years for Wolverines past to be fully unfolded, but impatient moviegoers will expect everything about the character to be uncovered by the end of the movie. And this creates an issue because the interesting premise behind the Wolverine character is the suspenseful and drawn-out process he endures in attempting to piece together his shrouded past.
no, it's not "not knowing" his past that made him awesome, it was the deliberateness(?) to which his past was hidden. It wasn't that we never knew his past because it was simply never told before but that we didn't know it because we weren't privileged enough or weren't allowed to know it, by him or anyone else that knew it. that's what added to the character.
Knowing that past now (and the lameness of it) certainly does take the charater down a bit. I mean it doesn't turn him to shit, but it is like "This character is no longer cool enough for him to hide his past from you." It is almost as blatant as Wloverine sitting down himself and recanting the tale of his past for us, with balloons and clowns and everything.
I mean I am all for taking such characters and knowing SOME of their past, or even much of their past, but why buy the milk if you got a cow? Sure they can still tell great stories, but no longer with "What happened when you were young that you aren't telling us?" "That's none of your f'ing business bub!" Well, it isn't Jean's business, but that really doesn't matter because WE know.
just my thoughts on it. Knowing a secretive origin like that doesn't ruin the character, but it definitely takes away some of what made the character.
as for your analogy to superman or spider-man, those characters aren't secretive. they wear their hearts on their sleeves.
of course all of this could just be because origins was so bad. had it been amazing maybe we would have different feelings on the subject.
Knowing that past now (and the lameness of it) certainly does take the charater down a bit. I mean it doesn't turn him to shit, but it is like "This character is no longer cool enough for him to hide his past from you." It is almost as blatant as Wloverine sitting down himself and recanting the tale of his past for us, with balloons and clowns and everything.
I mean I am all for taking such characters and knowing SOME of their past, or even much of their past, but why buy the milk if you got a cow? Sure they can still tell great stories, but no longer with "What happened when you were young that you aren't telling us?" "That's none of your f'ing business bub!" Well, it isn't Jean's business, but that really doesn't matter because WE know.
just my thoughts on it. Knowing a secretive origin like that doesn't ruin the character, but it definitely takes away some of what made the character.
as for your analogy to superman or spider-man, those characters aren't secretive. they wear their hearts on their sleeves.
of course all of this could just be because origins was so bad. had it been amazing maybe we would have different feelings on the subject.
Escape Goat
Member
Nevermind, bub. Yay Wolverine.
borghe said:
Just because the moviegoers would get some incite into his past, doesn't mean Logan himself would know any more of his own past than he did in the Xmen movies. So Wolverine, as a dude with selective amnesia, would still be very much intact as a badass killer with a good heart. The public who watch these movies is an entirely different breed than us comic book "geeks" who've been following Wolverine for decades.
no, I got that the public is different than the typical comic guy (see my other thread). I am just saying from my perspective. Also, you are talking about giving us glimpses, which I thought singer did a good job of, and which we got for years in the comics. that is fine. I am talking about why an origin style movie would just suck. show glimpses of his origin relevant to the story (a la X2) but keep the rest a mystery.
Escape Goat
Member
star wars = suck with two dimensional characters
Wolverine = good as long as we dont give him too much depth
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Wolverine = good as long as we dont give him too much depth
?????
the problem is ratner is one of the most average director's ever. I don't want to knock the guy.. I mean his movies are usually fun rentals and whatnot... but he has to followup Singer's X-Men. That's like having to followup Donner's Superman, Burton's Batman, or heaven forbid Raimi's Spider-Man. You can throw a decent director on it, but unless this guy is a miracle worker whatever average and decent movie he pulls off will still look like shit compared to the movies that came first in the series.
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