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[Bebpo]

LOL @ all those "PS2 sell more because they break easily" talks...

If that's true, how to explain PS2 got the highest tie ratio among all consoles?

Is it because all broken PS2 owner re-buy their whole library when they re-buy their PS2?

or PS2 automatically burn all your games when they break???

Don't know why I'm adding to this thread when it should die already but...

I always find the "people are buying a 2nd PS2 because it broke!" comments funny because I would think that at least the same % if not more are a buying a 2nd xbox because "broke[dre],they want a 2nd system to mod,banned from xbox live[especially around H2 time]".

So in truth I think both the PS2 and Xbox hardware numbers are inflated somewhat due to 2nd system purchasers, but I doubt this % is high enough to really mean anything in the long run.

 

[Fuzzy]

If you trust opa or any of their retarded regulars, you don't need to bother asking.

1) Rhindle posted the numbers first and I pretty much validated them with the non-percentage based ones. They are 100% rock solid.

2) We got out early Friday for the long weekend, so I wasn't able to get the GBA & DS numbers like I thought. We'll have to wait until Tuesday

Promising the handheld numbers soon and then making people wait until Tuesday? Sounds like a ban is in order.

 

[GhaleonEB]

LOL @ all those "PS2 sell more because they break easily" talks...

If that's true, how to explain PS2 got the highest tie ratio among all consoles?

Is it because all broken PS2 owner re-buy their whole library when they re-buy their PS2?

or PS2 automatically burn all your games when they break???

Did you even read the entire discussion?

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ZEEERUUUUUUUUDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Phoenix]

Don't know why I'm adding to this thread when it should die already but...

I always find the "people are buying a 2nd PS2 because it broke!" comments funny because I would think that at least the same % if not more are a buying a 2nd xbox because "broke[dre],they want a 2nd system to mod,banned from xbox live[especially around H2 time]".

So in truth I think both the PS2 and Xbox hardware numbers are inflated somewhat due to 2nd system purchasers, but I doubt this % is high enough to really mean anything in the long run.

I own 3 Xboxes, all moded to be set-top boxes. I own 4 Xbox games total

 

[Lord Error]

I saw these numbers posted at IGN. Can someone confirm these as the real numbers?

It's posted at IGN boards, and you're asking for confirmation that it's real? :lol

 

[jarrod]

2) We got out early Friday for the long weekend, so I wasn't able to get the GBA & DS numbers like I thought. We'll have to wait until Tuesday

 

[Fularu]

To be honest, I've had 3 ps2's the first one being a launch day one (26th of october 2000) then I got a new one in september 2002 (the first one broke), after a theft, I had a third one in august 2004 and I just sent it to sony Canada for repair

Needless to say that Itake a religious care of my systems, that none of them were moded or even played burned CDs/DVDs so...

Just for comparison sake, my good old PCengine CD and my JVC Xeye are both still in perfect working order (I've also owned something like 4 or 5 Playstations (first model)

 

[Odnetnin]

still no handheld numbers!

TEH AGONY!

 

[Pimpwerx]

still no handheld numbers!

TEH AGONY!

It's a fucking conspiracy. Mark my words, this is a coverup. I suspect.....Colonel Mustard, in the the study. Dun dun duuuuuuun. PEACE.

 

[lexi]

still no handheld numbers!

TEH AGONY!

They better start coming in come PSP launch. I won't be able to stand the anecdotal evidence overload.

PSP AM FUCK SELLING 10000 IN MAH EB HUR DE HUR

 

[Odnetnin]

They better start coming in come PSP launch. I won't be able to stand the anecdotal evidence overload.

PSP AM FUCK SELLING 10000 IN MAH EB HUR DE HUR

PSP = sellout. Pretty much guaranteed. Even if not for actual ownership but for ebay. Expect Price gouging!

 

[Fuzzy]

Well it's Tuesday, can we get the GBA and DS numbers now?

 

[sonycowboy]

Well it's Tuesday, can we get the GBA and DS numbers now?

Whatta bunch of crybabies

OK, I guess since I've already defaulted once.

Jan 2005
GBA Total 292,917
NDS Total 152,091


Dec 2004
GBA Total 2,060,443
NDS Total 745,899

NOTE: We had originally pegged GBA @ 2,316,000 for December 2004, so that was pretty far off. I guess that's what CSFB means by "flat"

NOTE #2: Edited the numbers to remove a stray Game Boy Color Sku

 

[lexi]

Dec 2004
GBA Total 2,060,651

Holy shit.

 

[Fuzzy]

Thank you sonycowboy.

DS LTD
NPD   | 1,376,990
JPN   | 1,801,275
      |
Total | 3,178,265

 

[sonycowboy]

Thank you sonycowboy.

DS LTD - 1,376,990

Actually, 1,377,685

 

[Fuzzy]

Actually, 1,377,685

I have,

November  |  479,000
December  |  745,899 
January   |  152,091

I guess my November total is off?

 

[jarrod]

Jan 2005
GBA Total 292,964
NDS Total 152,091


Dec 2004
GBA Total 2,060,606
NDS Total 745,899

So what was that about DS eating GBA's market again? Kethfranklin?

 

[sonycowboy]

So what was that about DS eating GBA's market again? Kethfranklin?

To be fair, Jar. It did.

GBA was down by 200k in November, 250k in December, although it's up by 26k in January. Not like the market share drop in Japan and 2 million in December is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[jarrod]

To be fair, Jar. It did.

GBA was down by 200k in November, 250k in December, although it's up by 26k in January. Not like the market share drop in Japan and 2 million in December is nothing to sneeze at.

Bah, when a machine moves multiple millions in a month a 10% decrease is a drop in the bucket. It was inevitable anyway, GBA's peak was last year and cycle's just moving through.

Just thought I'd call Franky out on his flawed logic in the JP sales threads.

 

[Odnetnin]

well. if this says anything. Nintendo has the pricepoint on GBASP priced just right for the massmarket / kiddy market. Sony will have a hard time cracking that.

The DS is just a tad too expensive compared to GBASP but if Nintendo price drops to counter PSP, I'd say sales of DS will rise and start eating into GBASP numbers. I also wonder if the market knows that DS can play GBA games.

All up. Amazing sales and good numbers all round.

and thanks SONYCOWBOY... why did you sit on these numbers as long as you did? TEH AGONY!

 

[Cold-Steel]

well. if this says anything. Nintendo has the pricepoint on GBASP priced just right for the massmarket / kiddy market. Sony will have a hard time cracking that.

The DS is just a tad too expensive compared to GBASP but if Nintendo price drops to counter PSP, I'd say sales of DS will rise and start eating into GBASP numbers. I also wonder if the market knows that DS can play GBA games.

All up. Amazing sales and good numbers all round.

and thanks SONYCOWBOY... why did you sit on these numbers as long as you did? TEH AGONY!

The public is well aware that DS can play GBA games.

I have no doubt that Nintendo plans to drop the DS price at PSP launch. Sony's marketing muscle is going to destroy the DS as being inferior in features and graphics.

If Nintendo has an ace-in-the-hole (other than price), they should pull it now because they are about to get trampled.

 

[Odnetnin]

The public is well aware that DS can play GBA games.

I have no doubt that Nintendo plans to drop the DS price at PSP launch. Sony's marketing muscle is going to destroy the DS as being inferior in features and graphics.

If Nintendo has an ace-in-the-hole (other than price), they should pull it now because they are about to get trampled.

:cough. Ace in hole?

$50 GBASP?

$100 DS?

they can so easily do that, even if its just a promotional price during PSP launch or Xmas. Its all about the numbers anyhow. They have installed base on their side this time. This is like GC/XBOX vs PS2.

 

[Fuzzy]

Bah, when a machine moves multiple millions in a month a 10% decrease is a drop in the bucket. It was inevitable anyway, GBA's peak was last year and cycle's just moving through.

Actually the GBA was down almost 900K in 2004 compared to 2003.

 

[jarrod]

Actually the GBA was down almost 900K in 2004 compared to 2003.

Sure, but not due to compeition from DS. It's natural or a platform to peak and descend, that's what GBA seems to be doing year over year. PlayStation 2 did the same in it's 3rd/4th years.

 

[belgurdo]

All sorts of wild excuses why RE4 didn't move that many Gamecubes in 3...2...1......

Morir es vivir

 

[Fuzzy]

Sure, but not due to compeition from DS. It's natural or a platform to peak and descend, that's what GBA seems to be doing year over year. PlayStation 2 did the same in it's 3rd/4th years.

I wasn't disputing that, just the fact that you said it peaked last year when it actually peaked in 2003.

 

[jarrod]

I wasn't disputing that, just the fact that you said it peaked last year when it actually peaked in 2003.

Er sorry. I misspoke, I meant peaked in the previous year (2003).

 

[Cold-Steel]

:cough. Ace in hole?

$50 GBASP?

$100 DS?

they can so easily do that, even if its just a promotional price during PSP launch or Xmas. Its all about the numbers anyhow. They have installed base on their side this time. This is like GC/XBOX vs PS2.

PSP at launch will be a floodgate entry. Many people underestimate Sony's marketing.

The problem here is that Nintendo has used the price drop before and it hasn't worked.

Features will sell the systems, not the games this time around. Sony's introducing a whole new ball game. [I'm using Japan as the basis for my argument]

 

[KeithFranklin]

Just thought I'd call Franky out on his flawed logic in the JP sales threads.

How is my logic flawed? I am correct according to the Japanese numbers and by these numbers the US as well. Not to mention the DS had a launch sale push (So did the GCN if you remember selling more in it's launch than it did the next christmas).

To reiterate my logic. Nintendo revenue for handheld sales will drop as a result of PSP even if the DS wins the game. Simply because dropping from 99% of the market to xx% (Insert anything from 51% to 90%) will result in Nintendo not making as much (Key words are "as much"). Profit and revenue dropping is never looked on as a good thing (According to stock markets) unless there is reason to look on it as an investment for long term growth and I doubt you will find many analysts that will think that the DS versus the PSP is an investment for long term growth.

 

[jarrod]

PSP at launch will be a floodgate entry. Many people underestimate Sony's marketing.

The problem here is that Nintendo has used the price drop before and it hasn't worked.

Features will sell the systems, not the games this time around. Sony's introducing a whole new ball game. [I'm using Japan as the basis for my argument]

You need to remember though that this handhelds, which is a rather different market than consoles. There's some crossover sure, but simply looking at console history as a roadmap for the handheld market's future is iffy at best.

 

[border]

hmmm

 

[Cold-Steel]

Agreed jarrod, but I'm going to illustrate why I think features will dominate the handheld war:

Nintendo DS:
-Plays GBA and DS games.
-Pictochat
-Comes with Metroid First Hunt demo
-Wireless play, Online capable
-Dual screens, touch panel interactivity
-Clamshell sleek design
-N64/PSX gfx capable

Sony PSP:
-Sleek widescreen design
-MP3, UMD Video, MPEG playback capabilities
-PS2 gfx capable (somewhat)
-First million systems come packed with Spiderman 2 UMD
-Wireless and Online play
-Comes with demos of upcoming games

Can anyone argue that both Sony and Nintendo are *not* pushing their hardware over software at launch? The entire DS launch campaign was all about the touch screen!

I think the UMD, MPEG, and MP3 playback is going to sell most people on the PSP alone.

Pictochat is the DS' X-factor. With a decent online infrastructure Nintendo could have a handheld MSN Messenger system.

 

[jarrod]

How is my logic flawed? I am correct according to the Japanese numbers and by these numbers the US as well.

Here, I'll make it easy for you. In this thread you implied Japanese trends of DS eating GBA market in the short term would extend to the US. And you were pretty clearly wrong on that.

Not to mention the DS had a launch sale push (So did the GCN if you remember selling more in it's launch than it did the next christmas).

So, do all platforms, including Xbox and Dreamcast. PSP's extended sales are thanks mainly to a decompressed supply restricted launch. Every platform benefits from launch demand, what's the relevance?

To reiterate my logic. Nintendo revenue for handheld sales will drop as a result of PSP even if the DS wins the game. Simply because dropping from 99% of the market to xx% (Insert anything from 51% to 90%) will result in Nintendo not making as much (Key words are "as much").

Not necessarily, a drop in marketshare doesn't have to mean a drop in revenue. There's too many other factors at play to push such rudimentary logic, not the least of which being Sony's intention to expand PSP into a new handheld demographic rather than simply consuming Nintendo's Game Boy market. If Game Boy owners buy DS then there's no real reason to expect a substantial drop in revenue (or userbase). Plus profit is almost guaranteed to go up thanks to premium software prices and much lower manufacturing costs, even if sales can't match the GBA juggernaut.

Profit and revenue dropping is never looked on as a good thing (According to stock markets) unless there is reason to look on it as an investment for long term growth and I doubt you will find many analysts that will think that the DS versus the PSP is an investment for long term growth.

Well I'd hope not, as DS is pretty clearly meant to be a short term cycle product (2-3 years). Like the last 4 Game Boys before it.

 

[Odnetnin]

Agreed jarrod, but I'm going to illustrate why I think features will dominate the handheld war:

Nintendo DS:
-Plays GBA and DS games.
-Pictochat
-Comes with Metroid First Hunt demo
-Wireless play, Online capable
-Dual screens, touch panel interactivity
-Clamshell sleek design
-N64/PSX gfx capable

Sony PSP:
-Sleek widescreen design
-MP3, UMD Video, MPEG playback capabilities
-PS2 gfx capable (somewhat)
-First million systems come packed with Spiderman 2 UMD
-Wireless and Online play
-Comes with demos of upcoming games

Can anyone argue that both Sony and Nintendo are *not* pushing their hardware over software at launch? The entire DS launch campaign was all about the touch screen!

I think the UMD, MPEG, and MP3 playback is going to sell most people on the PSP alone.

Pictochat is the DS' X-factor. With a decent online infrastructure Nintendo could have a handheld MSN Messenger system.

you missed

a) PRICEPOINT

b) handheld / social perception / demographics and market.

c) installed base

both factors will play a larger factor then you think. Its going to be in Nintendo's favour to be honest - you keep discounting the DS/GBASP combo. It is mostly the GBASP that will kill both DS+PSP markets if the price is right. The PSP doesn't have the transcendency / gender appeal that something like ipod has.

 

[IgeL]

Handheld numbers! Rejoice.

Thanks sonycowboy.

 

[KeithFranklin]

Not necessarily, a drop in marketshare doesn't have to mean a drop in revenue. There's too many other factors at play to push such rudimentary logic, not the least of which being Sony's intention to expand PSP into a new handheld demographic rather than simply consuming Nintendo's Game Boy market. If Game Boy owners buy DS then there's no real reason to expect a substantial drop in revenue (or userbase). Plus profit is almost guaranteed to go up thanks to premium software prices and much lower manufacturing costs, even if sales can't match the GBA juggernaut.

Agree if the market expands enough then Nintendo will do fine. Problem is as Japan is showing the market is not expanding. Question: Why is DS manufacturing costs much lower than GBA manufacturing costs? Question: What premium software prices? If your comparing to PSP then that is meaningless. I am comparing Nintendo to Nintendo. That is Nintendo revenue and profit from handheld business unit in the past versus Nintendo revenue and profit from handheld business unit in the future.

Well I'd hope not, as DS is pretty clearly meant to be a short term cycle product (2-3 years). Like the last 4 Game Boys really.

Consumers and Analysts will not look on this favorably. We keep hearing this, it is only true if next GBA is backwards compatible with both the DS and the GBA. The Game Boys have really been incremental changes (GBA SP) was just a new form factor not a new system.

 

[TotalBastard]

I worry that playing UMD discs will kill my PSP, much like playing DVD's on my PS2 caused it to die an early death.

 

[sonycowboy]

Well I'd hope not, as DS is pretty clearly meant to be a short term cycle product (2-3 years).

Nintendo Employee #1: Oh, teh NOES! Teh PSP will kill us.
Nintendo Employee #2: Let's release a new system to FIGHT!
Nintendo Employee #3: But, we can't beat it!
Nintendo Employee #1: Let's use teh INNOVASHUN!
Nintendo Employee #2: OK
Nintenod Employee #3: I've got a bad felling about this. But maybe it will at least slow down PSP sales until we're ready.


At least that's how their conversation went in my head

 

[Link316]

Nintendo revenue for handheld sales will drop as a result of PSP even if the DS wins the game. Simply because dropping from 99% of the market to xx% (Insert anything from 51% to 90%) will result in Nintendo not making as much (Key words are "as much").

agreed, their margins will also come down as they start shifting their source of revenue from the GBA to the DS

 

[jarrod]

Consumers and Analysts will not look on this favorably.

Well, why would DS suddenly brunt some significant consumer/analyst criticism when GBA SP, GBA, GBC and GBP managed to evade it for the past decade? Wouldn't the industry have turned by now if this forumla wasn't working? Rather than making the Game Boy the most successful consumer handheld electronics line in history?

We keep hearing this, it is only true if next GBA is backwards compatible with both the DS and the GBA. The Game Boys have really been incremental changes (GBA SP) was just a new form factor not a new system.

The next Game Boy depends on how DS performs. You can certain of that but that's about it really.

 

[Speevy]

I don't think the DS will ever outsell the GBA SP in the US to be honest.

 

[Odnetnin]

The next Game Boy depends on how DS performs. You can certain of that but that's about it really.

no matter what happens next.. I do think Nintendo will be in trouble next gen GBA. THe DS is imo a miscaculation in parts but I don't have problems with its performance during its time. Its what happens next that's problematic Here's why.

The PSP's technonlogy is very sound aka FUTURE PROOF for a good 10 years or so.. I don't think we'll be wanting something any more spiccy that soon

by the time GBAnext comes along, PSP would have a good sized userbase, and I don't see why publishers will want to navigate. They'd work out how to publish/make games for PSP and there's the userbase. There's also the ability to port PS2 titles which arguable has more sales potential than say GC ports. GBAnext will be a hard handheld to make an impact (unless PSP bombs somehow)

That's one reason why I'm picking up a PSP

 

[Speevy]

Yeah, those Gameboys always have trouble making an impact. That's one thing I'll say about them.

 

[jarrod]

Agree if the market expands enough then Nintendo will do fine.

Well, that's my point. There's just too many variables... right now the early Japanese userbase points to both DS and PSP gaining an older, more diverse audience than GBA actually.

Problem is as Japan is showing the market is not expanding.

Wrong. Not only are buyers of DS and PSP older than GBA but more of them are women as well.

Why is DS manufacturing costs much lower than GBA manufacturing costs?

Software manufacturing is lower thanks to the shift in media to 3DM cards. Dramatically lower actually, as production ramps up 3DM cards will become disposably cheap, similar to optical media. Other factors like post production data writing are also bringing down associated costs and turn over rates relative to GBA media. If you want to research more indepth go here.

What premium software prices? If your comparing to PSP then that is meaningless. I am comparing Nintendo to Nintendo. That is Nintendo revenue and profit from handheld business unit in the past versus Nintendo revenue and profit from handheld business unit in the future.

Some publishers are going for premium pricing on DS (EA, Activision, etc), usually coming in about $10 over the norm. They're doing the same on PSP evidently, which is regularly about $10 above DS/GBA pricing standards already.

 

[ruffles]

So what are the real HW numbers for consoles in January?

 

[sonycowboy]

So what are the real HW numbers for consoles in January?

Search this thread. The truth is out there! (like last page )

 

[shpankey]

there is a GC shortage!!



of buyers

:lol

 

[Speevy]

:lol

Just now viewing the first page?