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[PeteBull]

I replied to you because your sales estimates were unrealistic, and I'm telling you how unrealistic it would be to sell 10 million within that time frame.

Using data is not being a ND defender. According to you and several other people on this forum, all of Sony's first-party single-player titles outside of Ghost of Tsushima have underperformed this generation, so you guys are clearly not the best when it comes to analyzing the market.

U lieing again bro, GoY was succesfull, and i acknowledged it a while ago, not coz it had some crazy groundbreaking sales, but simply coz its budget was relatively tight.
There is always crucial metric when judging if game is succesfull or not, u compare its budget to amount of sales/revenue/profit it made, simple as that.

Edit: There u go, official GoY sales after 32days topic, u even posted in there too, direct link to my post:

Post in thread 'PS5 shipments top 84.2 million; Ghost of Yotei sales top 3.3 million'

Nov 11, 2025

• Ghost of Yotei has sold-through 3.3 million units as of November 2, 2025 (32 days after release).

What should I make out from this?

This

Or this?

I say like always- it all depends on game's budget, we know GoY had well under...

• PeteBull

• 
• 

So again, stop lying about me, since i presented u with a proof here.

 

[mckmas8808]

12 weeks= 3 months, im saying if it sells 10m durning that time so 2m less, it will be massive success, u quoting me yet u keep lieing here, not cool, bro.
And again, crimson desert from unknown korean studio sold 6m copies in under 3 months, u are ND defender as ur tag (and tens if not hundreds of posts) suggest yet u got so lil faith in the devstudio urself?
Hell as a comparision im hyped for ES6 here and even tho we didnt even see anthing from that game(lets not mention that laughable title reveal trailer from e3 2017 ) im hopefull it will at least sell 10m copies in 3 months/launch window.
U think ND is worse studio from current day bethesda even?

Dude......10 million in 3 months is an insane floor to set for a game to sell. What in the world?! It doesn't have to do that in order to be a financial success.

 

[PeteBull]

Dude......10 million in 3 months is an insane floor to set for a game to sell. What in the world?! It doesn't have to do that in order to be a financial success.

If it has budget of 500m+ usd, it defo gonna need to be very succesful, and i predict thats what we gonna have, for comparision witcher4 estimated budget is 800m usd now and cp2077 had 442m usd budget(total, including expack/post launch support, marketing, total).
We will be more sure when its closer to launch, but one thing we shouldnt do is look at 2027 or 2028 games like at 2015-2020 games, costs went up at least twice when we talking top of the top AAA budget, GoY was clearly exception here, and u could tell from how it looked.

Again, lets not sell ND short here, its sony's flagship first party, it wont get 2ndrate AAA budget like suckerpunch did.

Naughty Dog Number of Employees 2026 | Employee Count & Headcount Data

Naughty Dog had 1,343 employees as of December 2025, up 47 (+3.5%) from the prior year. Headcount, salary, location, and hiring trends from Revelio Labs.

www.reveliolabs.com

Thats one of biggest and wellpaid devstudios on the globe currently and many years prior

 

[DForce]

U lieing again bro, GoY was succesfull, and i acknowledged it a while ago, not coz it had some crazy groundbreaking sales, but simply coz its budget was relatively tight.
There is always crucial metric when judging if game is succesfull or not, u compare its budget to amount of sales/revenue/profit it made, simple as that.

Edit: There u go, official GoY sales after 32days topic, u even posted in there too, direct link to my post:

Post in thread 'PS5 shipments top 84.2 million; Ghost of Yotei sales top 3.3 million'

Nov 11, 2025

• Ghost of Yotei has sold-through 3.3 million units as of November 2, 2025 (32 days after release).

What should I make out from this?

This

Or this?

I say like always- it all depends on game's budget, we know GoY had well under...

• PeteBull

• 
• 

So again, stop lying about me, since i presented u with a proof here.

That's not what I'm telling you.

I'm saying that, based on your sales analysis and the analysis from several others, games outside of Ghost of Tsushima. This is why I keep bringing up Resident Evil: if the same logic were applied to those games, they would also be considered underperforming.

Here's an example.

Some people claim Sony expects every sequel to outperform its predecessor, and that selling roughly 50% less automatically means the game is underperforming.

Now, some people have said this about TLOU, but if I apply this to a Resident Evil game or even Grand Theft Auto 6 (when it releases), then, according to your argument, those games have underperformed.

 

[Shmunter]

I don't think there is much interest in titles from this studio

 

[PeteBull]

That's not what I'm telling you.

I'm saying that, based on your sales analysis and the analysis from several others, games outside of Ghost of Tsushima. This is why I keep bringing up Resident Evil: if the same logic were applied to those games, they would also be considered underperforming.

Here's an example.

Some people claim Sony expects every sequel to outperform its predecessor, and that selling roughly 50% less automatically means the game is underperforming.

Now, some people have said this about TLOU, but if I apply this to a Resident Evil game or even Grand Theft Auto 6 (when it releases), then, according to your argument, those games have underperformed.

Just admit u lied about me, i gave u proof, there are some games that bomb/underperform, some dont, sony has plenty of both kinds this gen, and i (being playstation games fan, not brand itself, altho i loved/played on sony consoles from mid 90s aka first playstation) try to keep being somewhat unbiased.
If we dont call out any sony debauchery we will end up like xbox fans, they also kept praising st00pid gamepass strategy and all other awful shit xbox did(like putting their exclusives on pc, sony fucked up here too, luckily they smarted up), and nobody wants that.

I have no trouble naming 3 ps5 games i will play as soon as i get my brand new ps6- astro, demons souls remaster and gt7(its xgen but i got no heart to play it on my old ps4, i wanna play it in its full glory, maxed out ).
That doesnt mean i wont play ES6 or other great games microsoft provides me with, coz i am fan of great games, not brands, full disclousure im too poor to care about brands here

 

[vpance]

 

[apocaliptic]

Award winning South of midnight? Eitherway nothing of value will be lost

 

[LectureMaster]

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Did anyone actually play South of Midnight?

 

[DForce]

Just admit u lied about me, i gave u proof, there are some games that bomb/underperform, some dont, sony has plenty of both kinds this gen, and i (being playstation games fan, not brand itself, altho i loved/played on sony consoles from mid 90s aka first playstation) try to keep being somewhat unbiased.
If we dont call out any sony debauchery we will end up like xbox fans, they also kept praising st00pid gamepass strategy and all other awful shit xbox did(like putting their exclusives on pc, sony fucked up here too, luckily they smarted up), and nobody wants that.

I have no trouble naming 3 ps5 games i will play as soon as i get my brand new ps6- astro, demons souls remaster and gt7(its xgen but i got no heart to play it on my old ps4, i wanna play it in its full glory, maxed out ).
That doesnt mean i wont play ES6 or other great games microsoft provides me with, coz i am fan of great games, not brands, full disclousure im too poor to care about brands here

Really?

Then tell me how many of Sony's single-player first-party titles have underperformed this generation. Is The Last of Us Part II, God of Rag Ragnarok, Spider-Man 2 on that list? Do you consider these games successful?

 

[Buggy Loop]

Please, everyone can be better off without having the little mud digger and furry cat fighting porn producer Grummz in their life

As if a "community manager" means fuck all in a studio.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Did anyone actually play South of Midnight?

Yes, for about 46 minutes

 

[Kerotan]

Did anyone actually play South of Midnight?

Never heard of it

 

[PeteBull]

Really?

Then tell me how many of Sony's single-player first-party titles have underperformed this generation. Is The Last of Us Part II, God of Rag Ragnarok, Spider-Man 2 on that list? Do you consider these games successful?

None of those are on the list, on top gt7 and helldivers2 had great commercial successs, astro didnt get crazy sales but it supposedly had relatively small budget so even if sony lost some cash on it, considering its exclusive its fine(it generated tons of positive buzz, won goty, and definitely brought some ppl to playstation platform so can judge it only positively).

Biggest loss for sony was the gaas initiative, easily well over 5b usd total spent on that shit(and all of it wasted with exception of previously mentioned helldivers2), since worthless bungie alone was 3,6b, add to that marathon, concord, fairgame$, canceled factions gaas, and ofc gow gaas bluepoint got sentenced to work on + who knows what more that we didnt hear about, likely sony bend got put on gaas duty too, and last but not least 600lbs horizon gaas that has flop written all over it and has potential to finally retire hermen/put guerrila games on srs wavee of layoffs...

Other than that i think returnal didnt do too well, saros 100% bombed with its terrible sales even if it had midsize AA budget(if it had AAA budget- lord have mercy ... )

Mlb likely sold decently enough so no issues from me here either but its multiplat now so dunno if it can be even counted here.

Thats how i see it from kinda limited info we as gaffers got access to

 

[DForce]

None of those are on the list, on top gt7 and helldivers2 had great commercial successs, astro didnt get crazy sales but it supposedly had relatively small budget so even if sony lost some cash on it, considering its exclusive its fine(it generated tons of positive buzz, won goty, and definitely brought some ppl to playstation platform so can judge it only positively).

Biggest loss for sony was the gaas initiative, easily well over 5b usd total spent on that shit(and all of it wasted with exception of previously mentioned helldivers2), since worthless bungie alone was 3,6b, add to that marathon, concord, fairgame$, canceled factions gaas, and ofc gow gaas bluepoint got sentenced to work on + who knows what more that we didnt hear about, likely sony bend got put on gaas duty too, and last but not least 600lbs horizon gaas that has flop written all over it and has potential to finally retire hermen/put guerrila games on srs wavee of layoffs...

Other than that i think returnal didnt do too well, saros 100% bombed with its terrible sales even if it had midsize AA budget(if it had AAA budget- lord have mercy ... )

Mlb likely sold decently enough so no issues from me here either but its multiplat now so dunno if it can be even counted here.

Thats how i see it from kinda limited info we as gaffers got access to

I didn't ask anything about GaaS titles - I asked you about their single-player titles.

Did The Last of Us Part II, Spider-Man 2, and God of War Ragnarok underperform?
What single-player titles this generation have underperformed?

I'm not asking if they had "great" commercial success, I'm asking you specifically if they have underperformed.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

No idea why Microsoft bought them in the first place

They were desperate for studios. Compulsion was never a good choice. At the time they had released a single game I believe and it wasn't even a very good one at that nor did they really have much history with Xbox as that single game was a 360/PS4/PC release with the XBO port being late.

Ninja Theory was also not a good choice and doesn't fit Xbox either. I'd argue that Ninja Theory had more history with PS then Xbox.

 

[PeteBull]

I didn't ask anything about GaaS titles - I asked you about their single-player titles.

Did The Last of Us Part II, Spider-Man 2, and God of War Ragnarok underperform?
What single-player titles this generation have underperformed?

I'm not asking if they had "great" commercial success, I'm asking you specifically if they have underperformed.

Great commercial success= good sales, Tlou2 is lastgen game, it killed the franchise by alienating at least 50% of its audience(myself included), it can be seen by no 3rd part in the series announced 6 years after its launch and by terrible hbo season2 numbers, season1 based on part1 did great, season2 obviously based on inferior part2 did terrible, just like the game.

Spiderman2 and ragnarok sold extremly well, we know that altho compared to gow2018 ragnarok sold worse which is not good sign for gow uggo granny edition, very likely it will sell worse from ragnarok given protag change for much worse(kratos was perfect protag, while wrinkly granny at best can give that bossbabe energy which gets brownie points at metascore reviews from sellout journos, which we know means shit in 2026 and onwards).

We can tell returnal underperformed, but it had relatively tight budget so w/e loss it made for sony, it wasnt anything huge, saros bombed for sure but here again we can only speculate, if game had 50m usd budget with its terrible sales, sony probably can swallow it no probs like welltrained hooker, if it had 150-200m usd budget tho, that will sting for sure, we will see how next game from the housemarke will look in scope and if studio will get hit with layoffs or not.

I answered ur questions over and over, but still u didnt admit to lying about me but kept doubling down.
I could just not answer to any of those, but i did coz i got nothing to hide, unlike u when u avoid topic of sony GAAS initiative

I repeat here, its crucial sony gets called out out on their mistakes, otherwise no chance for course correction and we end up meeting eachother not in ninja theory/compulsion games clousure topics but in bluepoint studios clousure topic and as a playstation franchise fan- i absolutely want to avoid that.

 

[squallbr]

I didn't ask anything about GaaS titles - I asked you about their single-player titles.

Did The Last of Us Part II, Spider-Man 2, and God of War Ragnarok underperform?
What single-player titles this generation have underperformed?

I'm not asking if they had "great" commercial success, I'm asking you specifically if they have underperformed.

No , they paid the bills, I hate the 3 games but sold enough,

 

[DForce]

Great commercial success= good sales, Tlou2 is lastgen game, it killed the franchise by alienating at least 50% of its audience(myself included), it can be seen by no 3rd part in the series announced 6 years after its launch and by terrible hbo season2 numbers, season1 based on part1 did great, season2 obviously based on inferior part2 did terrible, just like the game.

Spiderman2 and ragnarok sold extremly well, we know that altho compared to gow2018 ragnarok sold worse which is not good sign for gow uggo granny edition, very likely it will sell worse from ragnarok given protag change for much worse(kratos was perfect protag, while wrinkly granny at best can give that bossbabe energy which gets brownie points at metascore reviews from sellout journos, which we know means shit in 2026 and onwards).

And this is exactly my point. Your analysis is way too inconsistent.

God of War Ragnarok sold 15 million in one year, which is more than half of the sales of God of War 2018. The Last of Us Part II sold 10 million in just under two years, and the leaked data shows the sales are well past 10 million.

If we used the same logic in sales, then you would consider Ghost of Yotei underperforming. However, if we used your metric for success for God of Yotei, then that would mean God of War Ragnarok and The Last of Us Part II were successful and haven't underperformed.

You're saying these games have sold worse after 1-2 years, knowing it took more than 3-4 years to sell 20 million copies.

There's no proof they have alienated at least 50% the fanbase. They have pissed off some fans, but that's a completely made-up stat.

 

[Barakov]

 

[mckmas8808]

If it has budget of 500m+ usd, it defo gonna need to be very succesful, and i predict thats what we gonna have, for comparision witcher4 estimated budget is 800m usd now and cp2077 had 442m usd budget(total, including expack/post launch support, marketing, total).
We will be more sure when its closer to launch, but one thing we shouldnt do is look at 2027 or 2028 games like at 2015-2020 games, costs went up at least twice when we talking top of the top AAA budget, GoY was clearly exception here, and u could tell from how it looked.

Again, lets not sell ND short here, its sony's flagship first party, it wont get 2ndrate AAA budget like suckerpunch did.

Naughty Dog Number of Employees 2026 | Employee Count & Headcount Data

Naughty Dog had 1,343 employees as of December 2025, up 47 (+3.5%) from the prior year. Headcount, salary, location, and hiring trends from Revelio Labs.

www.reveliolabs.com

Thats one of biggest and wellpaid devstudios on the globe currently and many years prior

If ND's game cost $500m to make then forget anything I said. Because whoa! That'll be insane.

But why are you saying what you're for will now cost $800 million? Where are you getting that number from?

 

[poppabk]

Did anyone actually play South of Midnight?

I played maybe an hour, probably less. It wasn't for me.

 

[Neilg]

Shoulda made good games!
South of Mid

Not sure I understand why studios get shuttered rather than just 'released'?

A studio with 90 people across all staff, hr, rent, hardware & software likely has a burn rate of $1m/mo on the low end. Quite likely much higher. I know someone already pointed out the logistics but it's a pretty big number.

 

[Felessan]

Biggest loss for sony was the gaas initiative, easily well over 5b usd total spent on that shit(and all of it wasted with exception of previously mentioned helldivers2), since worthless bungie alone was 3,6b, add to that marathon, concord, fairgame$, canceled factions gaas, and ofc gow gaas bluepoint got sentenced to work on + who knows what more that we didnt hear about, likely sony bend got put on gaas duty too, and last but not least 600lbs horizon gaas that has flop written all over it and has potential to finally retire hermen/put guerrila games on srs wavee of layoffs...

Bungie wasn't 3.6bn, it was 2.4bn price + 1.2bn long-term retention package. The latter was not paid in full as we know from scandal with departed heads.
And 2.4bn were somewhat recouperated by very strong 22-24 Destiny sales. And some part of this number are IP value, that cost will not dissappear even if Bungie closed completely.
Direct loss from Destiny for now is only 800mio of write-offs. Other is just wishfull thinking and inflating numbers due to lack of understanding how things are working.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Bungie wasn't 3.6bn, it was 2.4bn price + 1.2bn long-term retention package. The latter was not paid in full as we know from scandal with departed heads.
And 2.4bn were somewhat recouperated by very strong 22-24 Destiny sales. And some part of this number are IP value, that cost will not dissappear even if Bungie closed completely.
Direct loss from Destiny for now is only 800mio of write-offs. Other is just wishfull thinking and inflating numbers due to lack of understanding how things are working.

As you said write-offs is almost $800M alone. By itself that probably wipes out all the Helldiver 2 revenue.

Whatever D2 sales they got will be heavily countered by cost of operations. They even said years ago during acquisition time they were already in the red. And D2 was rolling at the time. Fast forward to recent years when D2 sales kept going down and almost non-existent Marathon revenue and you got tons of annual operating costs on top of the $800M.

Then add all the retention bonuses paid out which Sony isnt getting back. Nobody knows exactly how much it was but no doubt the execs would get a good chunk of it. Pete Parsons and gang arent going to structure a buy out bonus they can get $0. So dont pretend retention bonuses were hardly anything doled out.

 

[Aurelius]

Did anyone actually play South of Midnight?

Journalist did. It was hyped up for about a week until the next woke slop was released.

 

[Tobimacoss]

I know it didn't sell, but if South of Midnight was such a bad game, why does it have a 94% rating on Steam?

 

[PeteBull]

If ND's game cost $500m to make then forget anything I said. Because whoa! That'll be insane.

But why are you saying what you're for will now cost $800 million? Where are you getting that number from?

If cp2077 costed (and we know this from official info):

Cyberpunk 2077 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In October 2023, CD Projekt Red revealed that it had spent $125 million on Cyberpunk 2077 since launch, accounting for updates and bug fixes. The base game cost $174 million to develop, while the development and marketing of Phantom Liberty cost roughly $85 million. The game's total production cost is said to have been between $436 million, and around $440 million, making it one of the most expensive video games to develop.

The wiggle room is simply coz that info was in pln(aka currencly of my country, polish zloty) so could differentiate coz of exchange rates

800m usd budget for w4 is estimated, we had thread for it on here too:

Rumor Game Dev  Thread 'Analyst Estimates $800 Million Budget For The Witcher 4, 10x Higher Than Cost of The Witcher 3'

Jan 21, 2026

Analyst Estimates $800 Million Budget For The Witcher 4, 10x Higher Than Cost of The Witcher 3 - Clawsomegamer

The Witcher 4 could prove to be one of gaming's most expensive productions to date, with its budget rising to nearly $800 million.

clawsomegamer.com

---

The Witcher 4 could prove to be a turning point for CDPR, bringing together the goodwill established by the studio's work on redeeming Cyberpunk 2077 and the many accolades earned by The Witcher 3.

Needless to say, this sequel to The Witcher 3 is a highly ambitious undertaking for the studio, marking a shift to Unreal Engine 5 and a huge investment in an all-new trilogy featuring Ciri, the new lead of the franchise. Quite surprisingly, an analyst has...

• LectureMaster
• Replies: 49
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 

Its logical game gonna be way more costly, value of dollar is terrible, game gonna use much newer tech, way more ppl(with way bigger salaries) are working on it and devtime will be much longer too(cdpr only needed 4 years for w3, w4 gonna be at least 7, maybe even 8), obviously gonna need tons marketting too which is now way more expensive vs back in 2013-2015 when w3 was marketted, its all simple logics, nothing fancy

 

[GymWolf]

Did anyone actually play South of Midnight?

The devs asked their families and parents to buy the game but with little to no success.

 

[Ogbert]

Oh well.

They made silly games that needed financial support to get released.

 

[PeteBull]

And this is exactly my point. Your analysis is way too inconsistent.

God of War Ragnarok sold 15 million in one year, which is more than half of the sales of God of War 2018. The Last of Us Part II sold 10 million in just under two years, and the leaked data shows the sales are well past 10 million.

If we used the same logic in sales, then you would consider Ghost of Yotei underperforming. However, if we used your metric for success for God of Yotei, then that would mean God of War Ragnarok and The Last of Us Part II were successful and haven't underperformed.

You're saying these games have sold worse after 1-2 years, knowing it took more than 3-4 years to sell 20 million copies.

There's no proof they have alienated at least 50% the fanbase. They have pissed off some fans, but that's a completely made-up stat.

Even ppl who bought tlou2 and hated the game count as alienated fanbase, they hate cuckman and wont buy next game from him, definitely not next part of tlou.
If mountain of money was to be made from tlou3 we would get reveal trailer by now, yet both ND and sony understand perfectly it will only bring them negative PR.
Metric of success is game's budget vs how much money game made, it was always like that, u doing ur best to not acknowledge this simple point.

GoY had similar budget to first GoT(aka around 90-100m usd) so ofc it selling over 3m full price launchwindow(and being exclusive, its important coz sony doesnt need to pay themselfs 30% platform holder cut) is well into profitable/succesful realm, was back then in nov 2025 already.

Now another example, if gta6 sells only 50m copies ltd(so lets say 15m full price launchwindow-here 30% cut to sony/ms on every copy, and even gotta add retail cut on top incase of phys copies, 35m sales with discounts down the line)with its crazy budget, does it mean its succesfull? Ofc not, it would mean game bombed since thats not even 1b usd of profit on 2b usd budget, aka colossal loss, and all that despite humongous 50m ltd sales.

There are certain expectactions investors have, and we know this again from official source, rdr2 wiki page:

Red Dead Redemption 2 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shortly before release in October 2018, Schacter estimated the game would sell 15 million copies in its first quarter, though noted investor expectations were at 20 million copies

What game actually made?

The game exceeded Red Dead Redemption's lifetime sales within eight days, and shipped over 17 million copies within thirteen and 23 million by the end of the year, generating $1.38 billion in revenue; sales reached 50 million in 2022, with yearly increases of six to twelve million. By dollar sales, it was the best-selling game of its first seven years and the seventh-best of the 2010s. It is the third-best-selling video game, with over 85 million sold by March 2026

 

[Felessan]

As you said write-offs is almost $800M alone. By itself that probably wipes out all the Helldiver 2 revenue.

But more than enough covered with Fortnite and Genshin revenue.
Strategy was multilateral - some parts of it worked well and some not so.
Market is shifting (it doesn't matter whether you like it or not) and Sony tries to keep with it. Having zero experience in the field they bound to have errors and mishaps. But they did got some success with GT transition and HD2.
Still better than be a empty shell of former SP glory when playerbase went elsewhere like WB or Embracer.
Sony printing money with their GaaS strategy. Not the 1st party for most part like they hoped, but still performing much better than both MS who betted on lame duck of subscriptions insted of GaaS or Nintendo who stick with SP games on diminishing market share.

Whatever D2 sales they got will be heavily countered by cost of operations. They even said years ago during acquisition time they were already in the red. And D2 was rolling at the time. Fast forward to recent years when D2 sales kept going down and almost non-existent Marathon revenue and you got tons of annual operating costs on top of the $800M.

They made 200+mio per year, and after rounds of layoffs they should have been fine, pre-2025 slump.

Then add all the retention bonuses paid out which Sony isnt getting back. Nobody knows exactly how much it was but no doubt the execs would get a good chunk of it. Pete Parsons and gang arent going to structure a buy out bonus they can get $0. So dont pretend retention bonuses were hardly anything doled out.

So you shouldn't really add 1.2bn into cost when nobody knows exact number, especially given that those who were fired lost quite a bit of chunk of it.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

Did anyone actually play South of Midnight?

Maybe they/them did?

 

[DForce]

Even ppl who bought tlou2 and hated the game count as alienated fanbase, they hate cuckman and wont buy next game from him, definitely not next part of tlou.
If mountain of money was to be made from tlou3 we would get reveal trailer by now, yet both ND and sony understand perfectly it will only bring them negative PR.
Metric of success is game's budget vs how much money game made, it was always like that, u doing ur best to not acknowledge this simple point.

GoY had similar budget to first GoT(aka around 90-100m usd) so ofc it selling over 3m full price launchwindow(and being exclusive, its important coz sony doesnt need to pay themselfs 30% platform holder cut) is well into profitable/succesful realm, was back then in nov 2025 already.

I told you multiple times that TLOU2 was profitable day one. That's a statement directly from Neil Druckmann
God of War Ragnarok sold faster than both Spider-Man 2 and The Last of Us Part, and if the budget is similar to both games (200-300), then that would mean it made its money back by selling 4-7 million copies.

The people on Steam gave the game a high user rating, and so have the fans on PlayStation. If 50% of the people hated it, then the user score would be much lower.

This is a statement directly from Sony about God of War Ragnarok before the game was released in 2022.

The previous God of War game released in 2018 was one of the biggest titles ever released exclusively for PlayStation, selling 23 million units cumulative to date. We expect similar performance from this new title as well.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/22q2_sonyspeech.pdf

Now another example, if gta6 sells only 50m copies ltd(so lets say 15m full price launchwindow-here 30% cut to sony/ms on every copy, and even gotta add retail cut on top incase of phys copies, 35m sales with discounts down the line)with its crazy budget, does it mean its succesfull? Ofc not, it would mean game bombed since thats not even 1b usd of profit on 2b usd budget, aka colossal loss, and all that despite humongous 50m ltd sales.

This is not even remotely the same scenario. GOW:R sold 15m in its first year, and you believe the game underperformed.

If GTA 6 doesn't hit 70 million in its first year, then according to your logic, it counts as underperforming.

What you fail to understand is that it takes more than 1-2 years for a game to reach its full sales potential.

 

[PeteBull]

I told you multiple times that TLOU2 was profitable day one. That's a statement directly from Neil Druckmann
God of War Ragnarok sold faster than both Spider-Man 2 and The Last of Us Part, and if the budget is similar to both games (200-300), then that would mean it made its money back by selling 4-7 million copies.

The people on Steam gave the game a high user rating, and so have the fans on PlayStation. If 50% of the people hated it, then the user score would be much lower.

This is a statement directly from Sony about God of War Ragnarok before the game was released in 2022.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/22q2_sonyspeech.pdf

This is not even remotely the same scenario. GOW:R sold 15m in its first year, and you believe the game underperformed.

If GTA 6 doesn't hit 70 million in its first year, then according to your logic, it counts as underperforming.

What you fail to understand is that it takes more than 1-2 years for a game to reach its full sales potential.

U keep arguing against points i never made, was tlou2 financial success, yes- did it alienate substantial portion of fanbase- also yes, will it be 50 or just 30% we will never know coz we will never know how much it would sell if it was proper continuation of first tlou w/o feminist ideology injected into it.

Ragnarok sold extremly well and was financial success, and u argue with me like i said it wasnt, again totally unlogical stance.

And claiming i said gta6 selling 70milion first year will be underperforming is straigh up lie, i said 15m launch, 50m ltd including discounts down the line, that would be bomba for sure for game with gta6's budget even tho for all other games(aka games with much lower budgets) it would be a success.

Again, stop lying about me, direct quotes of my posts are right there so what do u think ur lies gonna bring?

Its like u quoting me saying sky is blue yet arguing why sky isnt purple, totally low iq behaviour, looks like perfect fit for one of current sony executives jobs right there

Not english native here, yet i can recognise right away what u doing is infamous strawman argument:

Straw man - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man"), instead of the opponent's proposition.

Talking to u is like arguing with ai programmed to lie on purpose (aka sharma )

 

[calico]

As if a "community manager" means fuck all in a studio.

It's a public facing role. You don't think it might be important for the person in this role to not have a history of openly stating their racist views about the majority of the customer base?

If any white employee at a MS studio was discovered to have openly stated anything along these lines about black people they would have been clearing out their desk within the hour.

Compulsion (and MS') decision not to fire her makes them culpable too. They had the opportunity to treat her exactly the same way they would treat a white employee making racist comments about black people and chose not to. I will be very happy if it's confirmed that Compulsion is being shut down.

 

[TonberrysKnife]

French tv journalist

FUCK. I was actually looking forward to Blade too.

 

[DForce]

U keep arguing against points i never made, was tlou2 financial success, yes- did it alienate substantial portion of fanbase- also yes, will it be 50 or just 30% we will never know coz we will never know how much it would sell if it was proper continuation of first tlou w/o feminist ideology injected into it.

Ragnarok sold extremly well and was financial success, and u argue with me like i said it wasnt, again totally unlogical stance.

And claiming i said gta6 selling 70milion first year will be underperforming is straigh up lie, i said 15m launch, 50m ltd including discounts down the line, that would be bomba for sure for game with gta6's budget even tho for all other games(aka games with much lower budgets) it would be a success.

Again, stop lying about me, direct quotes of my posts are right there so what do u think ur lies gonna bring?

Its like u quoting me saying sky is blue yet arguing why sky isnt purple, totally low iq behaviour, looks like perfect fit for one of current sony executives jobs right there

Not english native here, yet i can recognise right away what u doing is infamous strawman argument:

Straw man - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Talking to u is like arguing with ai programmed to lie on purpose (aka sharma )

The problem is that you're not understanding what I'm telling you.
You're telling me God of War Ragnarok sold less than God of War 2018, which isn't a good sign for God of War Laufey.

You're comparing 1 year sales for God of War Ragnarok to the lifetime sales of God of War 2018. That's not the correct way to compare sales. That's what I'm telling you, and that's what you're not getting.

Here are the sales milestones for both games

God of War 2018
3.1 million - 3 days
5 million - 1 month
10 million - 1 year and 1 month
14.8 million - 1 year, 7 months
19.5 million - 3 years, 4 months.

God of War Ragnarok
5.1 million - 5 days
15 million - 1 year

If you go around telling people it sold less, then you're going to run into the same problem because that's the wrong way to compare sales between the two games.

You need to compare the sales from the period when both games were released, not their current lifetime sales or the time of their last announcement.

When it comes to God of War Laufey, you have to compare its sales in the same timeframe. How long did it take to reach 5 million? How long did it take to reach 10 million? What about 15 million?

You also have to take into consideration that God of War Ragnarok launched with a PS5 bundle, and it remained bundled for about eight months.

 

[PeteBull]

The problem is that you're not understanding what I'm telling you.
You're telling me God of War Ragnarok sold less than God of War 2018, which isn't a good sign for God of War Laufey.

You're comparing 1 year sales for God of War Ragnarok to the lifetime sales of God of War 2018. That's not the correct way to compare sales. That's what I'm telling you, and that's what you're not getting.

Here are the sales milestones for both games

God of War 2018
3.1 million - 3 days
5 million - 1 month
10 million - 1 year and 1 month
14.8 million - 1 year, 7 months
19.5 million - 3 years, 4 months.

God of War Ragnarok
5.1 million - 5 days
15 million - 1 year

If you go around telling people it sold less, then you're going to run into the same problem because that's the wrong way to compare sales between the two games.

You need to compare the sales from the period when both games were released, not their current lifetime sales or the time of their last announcement.

When it comes to God of War Laufey, you have to compare its sales in the same timeframe. How long did it take to reach 5 million? How long did it take to reach 10 million? What about 15 million?

You also have to take into consideration that God of War Ragnarok launched with a PS5 bundle, and it remained bundled for about eight months.

Ok so now ur only gripe is i said the truth, aka ragnarok sold amazing but official numbers are below official numbers of gow 2018, anything else?, and plz dont write a book, just 1 sentense is enough, we derailed this topic plenty as is xD
And will u admit u lied about me(my views) multiple times or keep ignoring that statement once again and not take accountability, female style?

 

[Buggy Loop]

It's a public facing role. You don't think it might be important for the person in this role to not have a history of openly stating their racist views about the majority of the customer base?

If any white employee at a MS studio was discovered to have openly stated anything along these lines about black people they would have been clearing out their desk within the hour.

Compulsion (and MS') decision not to fire her makes them culpable too. They had the opportunity to treat her exactly the same way they would treat a white employee making racist comments about black people and chose not to. I will be very happy if it's confirmed that Compulsion is being shut down.

And you think the backlask, bad-faith attacks and racist/sexism shit thrown their way because of the game's black female protagonist has nothing to do with it perhaps? You even understand how low level peoples can be when throwing insults anonymously? You really think if peoples of colors spammed your email box with all the insults in the world, you would not say or think anything bad about those peoples?

It's no better than cancel culture and It's mind boggling that you peoples don't even see it. So fucking funny. It's REEEEeeeeEEEe and you're oblivious. If you want to cancel everything because one person hates your guts somewhere, you'll be living in the dark ages Calico.

I have never bought their games, ever. Not because of some culture war, because their games were never interesting to me or hyped me up.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

And you think the backlask, bad-faith attacks and racist/sexism shit thrown their way because of the game's black female protagonist has nothing to do with it perhaps?

No, not at all.

If you are the face of your company, you ignore the attacks. Block, never engage. If those attacks are serious, report them to X or to the police, but NEVER respond in the same way, attacking your potential customers by not singling out the culprits. It's all levels of wrong.

Besides, one racist attack doesn't cancel out the other. They are both despicable. This CM should have been fired on the spot. By not doing so, the company is adhering to her behavior and deserves to go under by their own merits. In the end, consumers, haters or not, are not responsible for them making mediocre games, which is the decisive factor, not the social media noise.

 

[Buggy Loop]

No, not at all.

If you are the face of your company, you ignore the attacks. Block, never engage. If those attacks are serious, report them to X or to the police, but NEVER respond in the same way, attacking your potential customers by not singling out the culprits. It's all levels of wrong.

Besides, one racist attack doesn't cancel out the other. They are both despicable. This CM should have been fired on the spot. By not doing so, the company is adhering to her behavior and deserves to go under by their own merits. In the end, consumers, haters or not, are not responsible for them making mediocre games, which is the decisive factor, not the social media noise.

Sure, she should have been fired. Do I keep a blacklist of devs to avoid because of that? Cmon.

Was never in the equation of do I buy their games or not, honestly. Their games are not even on my radar fundamentally.

 

[DForce]

Ok so now ur only gripe is i said the truth, aka ragnarok sold amazing but official numbers are below official numbers of gow 2018, anything else?, and plz dont write a book, just 1 sentense is enough, we derailed this topic plenty as is xD
And will u admit u lied about me(my views) multiple times or keep ignoring that statement once again and not take accountability, female style?

I didn't lie. You're just not understanding what I'm telling you. Read what you told me earlier.

Spiderman2 and ragnarok sold extremly well, we know that altho compared to gow2018 ragnarok sold worse which is not good sign for gow uggo granny edition

If you say this, then that means you're telling people God of War Ragnarok underperformed compared to God of War 2018. What you're describing is underperformance, so you don't have to state it specifically. You don't see the unfair comparison between the two games, so the problem is not me..it's you.

 

[calico]

You really think if peoples of colors spammed your email box with all the insults in the world, you would not say or think anything bad about those peoples?

If a white employee of MS openly said anything similarly racist about black people under any circumstances they would be fired immediately.

'Apply the same standards to your employees regardless of their race' is not cancel culture. If they have a blanket policy of allowing their employees to speak freely even to the point of making racist statements, fine, but obviously they do not.

Once a company adopts a policy of racism against white people being more permissible than other forms, I absolutely want that company to fail, will help it fail however I can and will celebrate if it does.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Once a company adopts a policy of racism against white people being more permissible than other forms, I absolutely want that company to fail, will help it fail however I can and will celebrate if it does.

So

"RRREEEEEEeeEEEEe"

Yup that pretty much sums it. Like I said earlier.

 

[PeteBull]

I didn't lie. You're just not understanding what I'm telling you. Read what you told me earlier.



If you say this, then that means you're telling people God of War Ragnarok underperformed compared to God of War 2018. What you're describing is underperformance, so you don't have to state it specifically. You don't see the unfair comparison between the two games, so the problem is not me..it's you.

Game can sell less than extremly succesful previous entry in the series and that doesnt mean it underperformed, again u putting words into my mouth i didnt say, nor thought of.
Simple example:
We know gta5 sold 225m(maybe 230 by now) copies, if gta6 even having substantially higher budget sells only 190m copies its still extremly succesfull game, even tho it sold 40m fewer copies from gta5 while having 4-5x higher budget(there is also gta online mtx on top which is crazy revenue they getting, but thats another story).

Now if that trend continues ofc it will be pretty worring for investors for future entries assuming again big increase in games budget combined with lowered sales but again- thats all logics, i didnt state some crazy lie, just fact- if entries in the very popular franchise sell fewer and fewer copies while simultaneously substantially increasing their budget we will reach a point of a flop down the line, 0 controversy there, that statement of mine wouldnt even fit into gafs controversial opinion mega thread.

Edit: Hell, we even got rl example of that very occurence, doom 2016-->eternal-->dark ages (2nd game was still very succesfull but had much higher budget from first one, third one had big budget but terrible sales and guess what- it fucking flopped surprise surprise ).

Now, since i praised sony and its games so much, are u willing to critique them at least just this once? Or are u contractory obligated to never do so? Humor me here

 

[calico]

So

"RRREEEEEEeeEEEEe"

Yup that pretty much sums you

You lack the mental acuity for these conversations unfortunately.

 

[Buggy Loop]

You lack the mental acuity for these conversations unfortunately.

Says the guy openly proud of continuing cancel culture. Continue REEEeeeeEEing little man.

 

[DForce]

Game can sell less than extremly succesful previous entry in the series and that doesnt mean it underperformed, again u putting words into my mouth i didnt say, nor thought of.
Simple example:
We know gta5 sold 225m(maybe 230 by now) copies, if gta6 even having substantially higher budget sells only 190m copies its still extremly succesfull game, even tho it sold 40m fewer copies from gta5 while having 4-5x higher budget(there is also gta online mtx on top which is crazy revenue they getting, but thats another story).

Now if that trend continues ofc it will be pretty worring for investors for future entries assuming again big increase in games budget combined with lowered sales but again- thats all logics, i didnt state some crazy lie, just fact- if entries in the very popular franchise sell fewer and fewer copies while simultaneously substantially increasing their budget we will reach a point of a flop down the line, 0 controversy there, that statement of mine wouldnt even fit into gafs controversial opinion mega thread xD

Now, since i praised sony and its games so much, are u willing to critique them at least just this once? Or are u contractory obligated to never do so? Humor me here

You're doing it again, and you don't realize it.
You're saying that if this trend continues, then investors will start to worry. You're using a flawed metric, and that's what you're being criticized for.

Investors don't expect games to outsell their predecessors in the first year. They want to know how many copies each game sold at the same point in their respective launch timelines.

God of War Ragnarok is not trending down - it's trending up because it's selling faster than its predecessor. Ragnarok reached 5 million and 15 million.

Read carefully.
You're comparing what one game sold in its 1st year to what another game sold over 5 years. That's a flawed and unfair comparison. Investors don't even do that.