Support NeoGAF

[ManaByte]

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050729_large_object.html

A newfound object in our solar system's outskirts may be larger than any known world after Pluto, scientists said today.

It also has a moon.

Designated as 2003 EL61, the main object in the two-body system is 32 percent as massive as Pluto and is estimated to be about 70 percent of Pluto's diameter.

Other news reports that the object could be twice as big as Pluto are false, according to two astronomers who found the object in separate studies and another expert who has analyzed the data.

If the mass is only one-third that of Pluto, then theory holds that it can't be larger than Pluto, according to Brian Marsden of the Minor Planet Center, which serves as a clearinghouse for data on all newfound objects in the solar system.

Marsden, who was not involved in the discovery but has reviewed the data, told SPACE.com that the mass estimate is very firm, within 1 or 2 percent. "I don’t think it is bigger than Pluto," he said.

Where it fits in

This is still a big world, once again raising the prospect that something larger than Pluto might still lurk out there.

Scientists base their size calculations in part on the object's reflectivity. Since they don't know exactly how much the surface brightness of distant objects varies, there is some wiggle room in their size estimates.

A team led by Mike Brown of Caltech has been observing 2003 EL61 for a year but was seeking more data before announcing the discovery. Brown said today it may possibly be larger than Sedna, which has been the largest known world beyond Neptune other than Pluto.

Sedna is between 800 and 1,100 miles in diameter. Pluto is about 1,400 miles across.

Brown figures 2003 EL61 has a diameter of around 930 miles.

Is there any chance it is bigger than Pluto?

"No," Brown said in a telephone interview. "Definitely not."

In fact, Brown's team got the new data they had been waiting for, from the Spitzer Space Telescope, last week. While not fully analyzed, he said the Spitzer observations show "absolutely" that the object is not bigger than Pluto.

Who gets credit?

The object was spotted independently by a group led by Jose-Luis Ortiz of the Sierra Nevada Observatory in Spain. Ortiz' team announced the finding in astronomy circles recently and the finding, including the claim that it might be twice as big as Pluto, was reported by an online news site today.

Ortiz said that based on his team's observations, there was one outlying theory could allow 2003 EL61 to be larger than Pluto, but he does not think it is right.

"I do not think it is larger than Pluto," Ortiz told SPACE.com today.

Brown was surprised last night to learn that Ortiz' group had independently found the object, which only yesterday gained the tag 2003 EL61 from the Minor Planet Center. It was a rare case of one group of astronomers unwittingly scooping another.

Brown said that Ortiz' group rightfully deserves credit for making the discovery.

About that moon

2003 EL61 orbits the Sun on an elliptical path beyond Neptune in a region of space known as the Kuiper Belt. It is significantly inclined to the main plane of the solar system where most of the planets travel. It is one of several objects out there now known to have a satellite.

The moon around 2003 EL61 is small, making up only about 1 percent of the mass of the system, Brown said.

"This satellite is the smallest satellite relative to its primary known in the Kuiper belt," Brown said. "Pluto's satellite, Charon, is about 10 percent of the mass of Pluto.

Marsden, of the Minor Planet Center, said it is surprising the object was not discovered earlier. He said it was probably just barely too faint to be spotted in the sky survey done by Clyde Tombaugh that led to the discovery of Pluto 75 years ago.

Brown's team first spotted 2003 EL61, which had no name at the time, using the Samuel Oschin Telescope at Palomar Observatory on May 6, 2004. They did not realized they had found it until Dec. 28, 2004, after scrutinizing their data in and ongoing effort to find Kuiper Belt Objects.

In a series of three images, the object is seen moving across the sky in relation to relatively fixed background stars.

Ortiz's group initially detected the object in 2003 and spotted it again this year, leading to their announcement yesterday.

 

[Deku]

This is interesting stuff. I wonder if there are potentially even more planets out there orbiting in the dark.

 

[jooey]

we're fucked

 

[Phoenix]

There's all sorts of large and small objects expected in that belt outside the traditional solar system. There is an entire field of debris out there. Many argue whether Pluto should even be considered a planet or one of the objects that float out in that field.

 

[m0dus]

"Planet Mypos found behind pluto!?"

"geet out of tha city!"

 

[silver]

Nibiru???!

We're all gonna die! DIE!

 

[Boogie]

we're fucked

Umm, why are we "fucked" because we discovered an object orbiting past Neptune?

 

[Deku]

There's all sorts of large and small objects expected in that belt outside the traditional solar system. There is an entire field of debris out there. Many argue whether Pluto should even be considered a planet or one of the objects that float out in that field.

Yes, the Kuiper belt, but until very recently, it was thought primarily as a graveyard of solar system formation with little information about significant proto-planets. If this planet weighs in at the high end of the scale it could be even larger than pluto.

It's interesting that there might be real planet sized objects orbiting out there that have yet to be discovered.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Umm, why are we "fucked" because we discovered an object orbiting past Neptune?

because we've stumbled upon the space pirates secret base, they're coming for our booty now they gotta keep the location secret.

 

[Escape Goat]

Its the Death Star of David!!!!

 

[ManaByte]

Its the Death Star of David!!!!

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Still no cure for cancer.
Err...
Still no Nibiru.

 

[The Bookerman]

"This is not a moon, it's a space station"

 

[DMczaf]

 

[radioheadrule83]

In the event that this is a large planet sized ball of supreme evil, which has returned after thousands of years...

Ruh Roh

 

[Deku]

Meet Mimas, one of Saturn's moons

 

[COCKLES]

Probably created by Sega's marketing division in late 90's so they could extend their 'planet themed' range of consoles.

 

[DarienA]

In the event that this is a large planet sized ball of supreme evil, which has returned after thousands of years...

Ruh Roh

+50 points for the Fifth Element reference... one of my favorite movies!

 

[mrkapawutzis]

Lucifer Rising

 

[Deku]

10th planet discovered, larger than Pluto. This is not the same as the objects discussed in the OP, it has a different tag and is discovered by a different team at NASA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4730061.stm

Designated 2003 UB313, it is about 3,000km across, a world of rock and ice and somewhat larger than Pluto.

Scientists say it is three times as far away as Pluto, in an orbit at an angle to the orbits of the other planets.

Astronomers think that at some point in its history, Neptune likely flung it into its highly-inclined 44-degree orbit.

It is currently 97 Earth-Sun distances away - more than twice Pluto's average distance from the Sun. .

 

[pestul]

I find it fucking disturbing that we're only discovering these now.. and most telescopes are pointed at distances which are light years away. Jesus, find out what we have in close proximity first.. before it's the end of us.

 

[Afro Thunder]

Hehehe. We are gonna die. Terra=Earth, Sol=Sun

 

[Zaptruder]

That's not a planet!

THAT'S THE FUCKING BORG!

 

[Timen]

every time we find a new planet in our own solar system i feel like we've found our sunglasses wich were right on top of our head the whole time...

 

[Companion Cube]

-----------

 

[Deku]

Whoever butchered that CG model of the solar system with 'terra' and 'sol' tags needs to be shot. Especially the URL they plastered everywhere.

Here's the original.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/deku81/planets.jpg

 

[Deku]

I find it fucking disturbing that we're only discovering these now.. and most telescopes are pointed at distances which are light years away. Jesus, find out what we have in close proximity first.. before it's the end of us.

It's actually very hard to find objects close to us in the kuiper belt because they are much dimmer.

A good analogy would be to imagine being outside at night on a starless moonless night trying to find something that's 100 ft ahead of your flashlight vs. spotting the street lights on the next ridge that may be several miles away.

The street lights are luminous, the object you're trying to spot are not and will depend entirely on the light from your flashlight. In this case, the objects in the kuiper belt are very far from the sun and are often missed.

 

[pestul]

It's actually very hard to find objects close to us in the kuiper belt because they are much dimmer.

A good analogy would be to imagine being outside at night on a starless moonless night trying to find something that's 100 ft ahead of your flashlight vs. spotting the street lights on the next ridge that may be several miles away.

The street lights are luminous, the object you're trying to spot are not and will depend entirely on the light from your flashlight. In this case, the objects in the kuiper belt are very far from the sun and are often missed.

But do you honestly think that much attention is even being focused on the kuiper belt as opposed to distant galaxies? What if we are missing something important..

 

[Deku]

But do you honestly think that much attention is even being focused on the kuiper belt as opposed to distant galaxies? What if we are missing something important..

If there was no attention they wouldn't have found those planetoids would they? People are looking, but it requires some effort and its only now with the new telescopes coming on-line that things are getting easier.

I've always wondered if there was some sort of earth like planet out there in deep space that we've simply never seen before, so sure, we could miss a lot. Actually, scientists have speculated that there's a ton of orphan planets out there, or planets with no parent star and just floating freely in space. Some have speculated that the larger planets with internal heat could actually still sustain life even without a parent star's heat and maybe even give rise to civilizations. For those aliens, a planet orbiting a star might seem extremely undersiable place for life to take root.

With that in mind, if there is some large planet that is not found way out in the fringe of the solar system, and it happens to have a molten core and internal heat, then it would make for very interesting science. But I personally think its highly unlikely. There might still be plenty of pluto sized planetoids orbiting out there though.

That said, looking outside our solar system is probably also a much more interesting field to work in.

 

[krypt0nian]

because we've stumbled upon the space pirates secret base, they're coming for our booty now they gotta keep the location secret.

Obviously....sheesh. Get with it!

 

[Fowler]

Excellent, we've found Planet Rupert.

 

[demon]

Actually, scientists have speculated that there's a ton of orphan planets out there, or planets with no parent star and just floating freely in space. Some have speculated that the larger planets with internal heat could actually still sustain life even without a parent star's heat and maybe even give rise to civilizations. For those aliens, a planet orbiting a star might seem extremely undersiable place for life to take root..

Wow, that's weird to think about. Any reading material on that somewhere?

 

[Shinobi]

Probably created by Sega's marketing division in late 90's so they could extend their 'planet themed' range of consoles.

:lol Brilliant...

every time we find a new planet in our own solar system i feel like we've found our sunglasses wich were right on top of our head the whole time...

:lol

 

[MrPing1000]

wake me up when it's outside my window

 

[olimario]

wake me up when it's outside my window

Planet Teh

 

[Fowler]

It's actually very hard to find objects close to us in the kuiper belt because they are much dimmer.

A good analogy would be to imagine being outside at night on a starless moonless night trying to find something that's 100 ft ahead of your flashlight vs. spotting the street lights on the next ridge that may be several miles away.

The street lights are luminous, the object you're trying to spot are not and will depend entirely on the light from your flashlight. In this case, the objects in the kuiper belt are very far from the sun and are often missed.

Also worth noting that the strange angle to its orbit threw astronomers off -- this lot said they'd have found this one much earlier but simply weren't looking in that direction.

 

[123rl]

wake me up when it's outside my window

Jeez...talk about making us feel small and insignificant!!

 

[fallout]

wake me up when it's outside my window

You could always go on a life long hunt for Vulcan.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

10th planet discovered, larger than Pluto. This is not the same as the objects discussed in the OP, it has a different tag and is discovered by a different team at NASA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4730061.stm

I was just about to make a new topic about this since I didn't see one. Considering its size and distance, this seems much cooler than the original point of this topic. Still no Nibiru, but getting closer!

I found it interesting that 2003UB313 was a Kuiper Belt object. When I heard of the Kuiper belt, I always thought of a relatively narrow band. But it's farther from Pluto than the sun is.

Brown's team has submitted a name for its proposed planet to the IAU, which won't be announced until the astronomy group hands down its ruling.

Anyone have any guesses as to what they might go for? Did there happen to be a Roman god of being really, really far away?

 

[Boogie]

Hehehe. We are gonna die. Terra=Earth, Sol=Sun

We're gonna die...why, exactly? Because the Sun is a lot bigger than the Earth? Is this news to you? Welcome to astronomy.

 

[Socreges]

We're gonna die...why, exactly? Because the Sun is a lot bigger than the Earth? Is this news to you? Welcome to astronomy.

Um, have you not noticed that it's gotten a lot hotter recently? Just six months ago it was pretty cold. I'd wear a jacket and maybe two shirts. Then I noticed it gradually getting warmer each month. Recently I've come to wear very little clothing. The Sun may be heading toward us pretty slowly, but it doesn't appear to be stopping any time soon. :\ I can't imagine what kind of collision such a large object would create. Millions will die.

 

[ManaByte]

Um, have you not noticed that it's gotten a lot hotter recently? Just six months ago it was pretty cold. I'd wear a jacket and maybe two shirts. Then I noticed it gradually getting warmer each month. Recently I've come to wear very little clothing. The Sun may be heading toward us pretty slowly, but it doesn't appear to be stopping any time soon. :\ I can't imagine what kind of collision such a large object would create. Millions will die.

 

[Boogie]

Um, have you not noticed that it's gotten a lot hotter recently? Just six months ago it was pretty cold. I'd wear a jacket and maybe two shirts. Then I noticed it gradually getting warmer each month. Recently I've come to wear very little clothing. The Sun may be heading toward us pretty slowly, but it doesn't appear to be stopping any time soon. :\ I can't imagine what kind of collision such a large object would create. Millions will die.

:lol nice.

 

[Phoenix]

But do you honestly think that much attention is even being focused on the kuiper belt as opposed to distant galaxies? What if we are missing something important..

There's likely not very much important in the Kupier belt. Based on our assumptions about stellar mechanics, everything out there would receive so little light that its likely frozen and probably doesn't have a molten core so there is no 'energy' which is one of the requirements that we list there needing to be for life as we know it. Nevertheless, even if we point all our observatories at the belt its like looking for your glasses in the dark - you simply aren't likely to see anything. We find these objects based on their effects on other objects. They are too far away and too dark to be seen. And actually soon, Pluto will be too dark to bother launching a proble to it as well as must of its surface will be in the darkness.

No sunlight - no love.

 

[Phoenix]

Planet Teh

More like Planet Meh.

 

[fallout]

But do you honestly think that much attention is even being focused on the kuiper belt as opposed to distant galaxies? What if we are missing something important..

There's likely not very much important in the Kupier belt. Based on our assumptions about stellar mechanics, everything out there would receive so little light that its likely frozen and probably doesn't have a molten core so there is no 'energy' which is one of the requirements that we list there needing to be for life as we know it. Nevertheless, even if we point all our observatories at the belt its like looking for your glasses in the dark - you simply aren't likely to see anything. We find these objects based on their effects on other objects. They are too far away and too dark to be seen. And actually soon, Pluto will be too dark to bother launching a proble to it as well as must of its surface will be in the darkness.

No sunlight - no love.

Another thing to remember is that some astronomers just don't give a shit at all about the solar system. If you've got a PhD, you're probably working in an area that interests you.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Anyone have any guesses as to what they might go for? Did there happen to be a Roman god of being really, really far away?

So I considered this a bit more. Here are some I think might be interesting.

Vulcan - "God of the forge and fire" Sure I doubt there's much in the way of hotness going on on 2003UB313, but it'd be funny.
Terminus - "Guardian of boundaries" So maybe a future discovery would make this not the farthest out planet, but it's not like all the current names make perfect sense either.
Libitina - "Goddess o the underworld", which would make for a pair with Pluto.
Lucifer - I tried for something that would go with 2003UB313's supposed reflexivity, but other than Apollo this "light-bearer" was as close as I found.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10338496

Dr Brown and his team have christened it Xena, after the warrior princess in the old television series, "... because we always wanted to name something Xena". But the formal decision on a name will be made by the International Astronomical Union.

Jesus. They went with pseudo-mythology!?

Xena - if such it formally becomes - is the biggest object to have been discovered in the solar system since Neptune in 1845.

Is that right? I know Saturn and Jupiter have some pretty large moons; those biggies were all known about before 1845?

 

[pestul]

There's likely not very much important in the Kupier belt. Based on our assumptions about stellar mechanics, everything out there would receive so little light that its likely frozen and probably doesn't have a molten core so there is no 'energy' which is one of the requirements that we list there needing to be for life as we know it. Nevertheless, even if we point all our observatories at the belt its like looking for your glasses in the dark - you simply aren't likely to see anything. We find these objects based on their effects on other objects. They are too far away and too dark to be seen. And actually soon, Pluto will be too dark to bother launching a proble to it as well as must of its surface will be in the darkness.

No sunlight - no love.

Well, you have to take into consideration that the Kupier belt is likely all we'll ever be able to reach with a man-made object for thousands of years at least (sorry Trekkies). Of course, we'll never learn anything about the formation of the universe from the belt.. but maybe we can score some bling.

 

[Fowler]

So I considered this a bit more. Here are some I think might be interesting.

Vulcan - "God of the forge and fire" Sure I doubt there's much in the way of hotness going on on 2003UB313, but it'd be funny.
Terminus - "Guardian of boundaries" So maybe a future discovery would make this not the farthest out planet, but it's not like all the current names make perfect sense either.
Libitina - "Goddess o the underworld", which would make for a pair with Pluto.
Lucifer - I tried for something that would go with 2003UB313's supposed reflexivity, but other than Apollo this "light-bearer" was as close as I found.

Wasn't Vulcan the name thrown about for the (now discredited) planet between Mercury and the Sun?