Support NeoGAF

[PhillipCostigan]

support changes were not on that level.

they introduced 3 new GP10 items, changed the number of wards a champion could place, bingo bango 54321 done sir done

oh and also made taric capable of doing what nasus could only dream of doing (1v5)

this is much larger than that.

what? they also added trinkets which is one of the biggest game changers LoL has seen. A complete overhaul of the vision system, changes to every support, completely new masteries as well as the jungle changes that happened.

2014's preseason was a much bigger deal than this year's which has slight item changes and a jungle overhaul.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

They also greatly changed utility scalings and tweaked the support champions, and of course added trinkets. All these changes together completely changed how the support role is played. Remember when you would start with a faerie charm and wards on Sona and Nami, and end the game with tier one boots, Mikael's maybe, and a sightstone?



It's moments like these where I really love having Cloud to Butt.

RIP Philosopher's Stone and Heart of Gold.

 

[garath]

Actually, all roles has that since boots work exactly like that.

Touche. But this is the first core item branching path. And it has MANY more effects than the boots do including changes to a summoner. Nuts.

 

[Nekofrog]

what? they also added trinkets which is one of the biggest game changers LoL has seen. A complete overhaul of the vision system, changes to every support, completely new masteries as well as the jungle changes that happened.

2014's preseason was a much bigger deal than this year's which has slight item changes and a jungle overhaul.

well we were originally talking about the support changes in comparison to the jungle changes, not every change they made (because s5 brings more than just jungle changes too)

the support changes were all straightforward and great

1a. here are 3 items. they earn you gold in different ways.
1b. sorry guys we fucked targons up, stop changing the meta and get back in the jungle

2. here are 3 items. they have effect on vision in different ways. one of them is recommended as default to most champions so in soloq most of you will never change it. one of them is almost completely useless except on certain champions (xerath, nocturne, ADCs).

3. i'm prolly forgetting stuff

4. RITO PLS REMOVE RUNIC BLESSING WHENEVER I SEE MY TEAMMATE WITH IT I WANT TO SCREAM AT MY CAT AND I DONT HAVE A CAT

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

what? they also added trinkets which is one of the biggest game changers LoL has seen. A complete overhaul of the vision system, changes to every support, completely new masteries as well as the jungle changes that happened.

2014's preseason was a much bigger deal than this year's which has slight item changes and a jungle overhaul.

I agree with you on the last sentence, but I think I might be biased as a support main. Jungle mains will probably think these are bigger since they'll be more affected.

Touche. But this is the first core item branching path. And it has MANY more effects than the boots do including changes to a summoner. Nuts.

Technically Distortion on boots changes TP and Flash.

 

[drawkcaB]

based on what i'm seeing, not what he's saying.

i would also like to mention how i don't like how most of the new camps look T_T

I'M OLD LET ME YELL AT MY CLOUD

Yeah, but a lot of what he's saying, is what he's doing, is what you're seeing =)

There's this one video where he engages a stronger jungler at their blue buff but he figures that by smiting it he'll get a health boost and win the engage...except that'd be the smite bonus on the red camp.

Then there's the esoteric shit pros haven't yet had a chance to try like how even with the Golem and Red Buff spawns back to 1:55 the fastest and safest level 4 paths don't require a straight buff-to-buff clear.

Actually, all roles has that since boots work exactly like that.

On that topic, I think Riot fucked up the presentation of the new jungle items. There's a precedent set thanks to boots where an enchantment is just a little adder to the actual items stats. The S5 jungle items are backwards. It should be machete->enchanted machete-> final item which keeps its enchantment.

 

[garath]

I agree with you on the last sentence, but I think I might be biased as a support main. Jungle mains will probably think these are bigger since they'll be more affected.



Technically Distortion on boots changes TP and Flash.

Just the cooldown, not the actual EFFECT of the spell.

 

[Ocho]

man, this game sucks.

sorry schmatt

Tipical Kane losing games.

 

[Nekofrog]

Just the cooldown, not the actual EFFECT of the spell.

no, it does.

flash with distortion = 20% bonus movement speed
ghost with distortion = 40% movement speed instead of 27
tp with distortion = 30% bonus movement speed

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

On that topic, I think Riot fucked up the presentation of the new jungle items. There's a precedent set thanks to boots where an enchantment is just a little adder to the actual items stats. The S5 jungle items are backwards. It should be machete->enchanted machete-> final item which keeps its enchantment.

I like the way it's set up, as you get the smite change before you get to the stats, which for some champs like Elise and Evelynn would allow them to chose the smite that would help their playstyle, then choose the stats they want to gain later.

well we were originally talking about the support changes in comparison to the jungle changes, not every change they made (because s5 brings more than just jungle changes too)

the support changes were all straightforward and great

1a. here are 3 items. they earn you gold in different ways.
1b. sorry guys we fucked targons up, stop changing the meta and get back in the jungle

2. here are 3 items. they have effect on vision in different ways. one of them is recommended as default to most champions so in soloq most of you will never change it. one of them is almost completely useless except on certain champions (xerath, nocturne, ADCs).

3. i'm prolly forgetting stuff

4. RITO PLS REMOVE RUNIC BLESSING WHENEVER I SEE MY TEAMMATE WITH IT I WANT TO SCREAM AT MY CAT AND I DONT HAVE A CAT

I would very much consider the trinkets a support change for how greatly they affected that role in particular.

Just the cooldown, not the actual EFFECT of the spell.

It does add a speed boost as well, but I know what you mean.

 

[garath]

no, it does.

flash with distortion = 20% bonus movement speed
ghost with distortion = 40% movement speed instead of 27
tp with distortion = 30% bonus movement speed

True. I guess that counts. It's a little more subtle than being able to smite a champ with true damage and a slow. But my bad.

 

[Leezard]

On that topic, I think Riot fucked up the presentation of the new jungle items. There's a precedent set thanks to boots where an enchantment is just a little adder to the actual items stats. The S5 jungle items are backwards. It should be machete->enchanted machete-> final item which keeps its enchantment.

Not following the precedent opens up the possibility of doing more different things in the future though, while following the precedent would likely lock it in. This is the best time to do a change if they are going to do one since only one other item class can get enchantments.

I think that the explanation is most likely just practical though, Riot thought the different Smites should be gained before raw stats. I don't know if that's going to be correct or not since it's a design decision.

Touche. But this is the first core item branching path. And it has MANY more effects than the boots do including changes to a summoner. Nuts.

Yeah, the jungle will change a lot now. It has changed quite a lot during every preseason since the change from S1 to S2 though, and I would expect Season 6 to bring a new jungle as well unless this one just happened to work out without Lee Sin and the usual suspects being way too dominant. It is definitely the largest change to the jungle yet though, that is right.

 

[Nekofrog]

if (somehow) lee sin is not successful in this jungle don't worry

lee sin players will moan until riot buffs him

 

[garath]

Not following the precedent opens up the possibility of doing more different things in the future though, while following the precedent would likely lock it in. This is the best time to do a change if they are going to do one since only one other item class can get enchantments.

I think that the explanation is most likely just practical though, Riot thought the different Smites should be gained before raw stats. I don't know if that's going to be correct or not since it's a design decision.


Yeah, the jungle will change a lot now. It has changed quite a lot during every preseason since the change from S1 to S2 though, and I would expect Season 6 to bring a new jungle as well unless this one just happened to work out without Lee Sin and the usual suspects being way too dominant. It is definitely the largest change to the jungle yet though, that is right.

It's going to be interesting for sure. I guess it'll open up some more jungle champs and some more jungle strats initially but I suspect a "best" will be determined pretty quickly again and we'll be back to optimal or bust.

 

[Leezard]

It's going to be interesting for sure. I guess it'll open up some more jungle champs and some more jungle strats initially but I suspect a "best" will be determined pretty quickly again and we'll be back to optimal or bust.

Yeah, I would expect that to happen since it usually does.

 

[Nekofrog]

With spirit stone gone and mana a more scarce resource I feel resource less junglers will be strong

O hai Lee sin

 

[Leezard]

Lee will probably always be good, hopefully he won't just be too dominant. I think he's fine right now though.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

dont u mean only lee sin will be strong

 

[NCR Redslayer]

Im still waiting for someone to try Zed in the new jungle.

He'll be the best jungler.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

Lee will probably always be good, hopefully he won't just be too dominant. I think he's fine right now though.

People said that about Elise who has just as big a kit. Well, now look at her. Hope the jungle changes help her.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

thats because they dumped every single skill 1000 times.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Did Fizz have any real counter to him? Seeing a fizz in the jungle and your entire team is cluttered around you is game over, for your team.

Elise mid (before she got gutted) had all the tools she needed to make Fizz irrelevant in the game. Couldn't trade against her early in the laning phase and the level 6 spike might not have even existed in that match-up, since Rappel shakes off the fish even if it lands on her. Cho'gath also doesn't really care about Fizz and makes ganking him easier thanks to the long silence duration from Feral Scream.

Fizz / Zed / Kha'zix mid being prominent when everyone slept on Elise were the best of times, before the wannabe tryhard junglers ruined it for the rest of us.

I want the taric remake to be similar to Vega in that apperiance and looking fly is important but he won't hesitate to hammer a bitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r37LAAjjRPY

I want the Taric VU to make him the Gold Dust of LoL.

So you want him to kick people in the balls?

 

[Nekofrog]

People said that about Elise who has just as big a kit. Well, now look at her. Hope the jungle changes help her.

elise doesn't have a rabid fanbase of insec wannabes who think they're gods gift to the jungle because they play lee sin and dem mechanics

 

[Leezard]

elise doesn't have a rabid fanbase of insec wannabes who think they're gods gift to the jungle because they play lee sin and dem mechanics

Pretty much. Lee has been dominant since a couple of weeks after his release when he got buffed in S1.

 

[drawkcaB]

I think that the explanation is most likely just practical though, Riot thought the different Smites should be gained before raw stats. I don't know if that's going to be correct or not since it's a design decision.

I'm not saying you should buy the stats (AD, HP, whatever) then get the upgraded smite. Upgrading smite stays first. I think you guys got me wrong.

I'm thinking of it in terms presentation and ease of readability. Right now, if you're going around and you tab to view your opponents items, what you'll see is an [unbelievably ugly] machete upgrade icon with a tiny colored dot on the bottom right corner. Even with the variations in the smite upgrades the information which must be presented the clearest is the raw stats on the final item, not the icon for the smite upgrade.

I think it should work something like this:
1.) Buy machete, it has the ol' machete icon we know and love.
2.) Enchant the machete with the smite upgrade of choice, it adds a coloured hue behind the machete icon for easy identification of which smite the jungler chose.
3.) Complete the upgraded machete which changes its icon to (just throwing this out there for examples) Hammer = AD item, Amulet = AP item, Helm = HP item, Spear = ASPD item with a small colored icon (pref a right angle triangle) on the bottom right corner for the enchantment that carried over from the machete.

Also, jungle items should have something common in their names for easy understanding. That name should of course be Wriggle's: Wriggle's Machete, Wriggle's Hammer, Wriggle's Amulet, Wriggle's Helm, and Wriggle's Spear. Just like "Doran's" is synonymous with starting items, make "Wriggle's" synonymous with jungle items.

Right now, no one can tell me with a straight face that a piece of meat with a tiny white dot intuitively means it's the AD/CDR/ArPen enchantment with the on enemy cast slow upgrade. That means absolutely nothing.

So you want him to kick people in the balls?

Yes. Yes I do.

Lee has been dominant since a couple of weeks after his release when he got buffed in S1.

I wish Riot would try out some really out there stuff like Lee Sin's Q costing 150 energy and it refunds 100 if activated again to dash. Oh and kill ward hoping. Kill all the fucking ward hoping.

 

[jerd]

New Maokai stuff looks good.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

dam ghost ur an ashsole

 

[Ghost is Bad]

lol.

 

[drawkcaB]

New Maokai stuff looks good.

Looks more like a Tiki mask than a totem pole, but I'm not going to complain. Outside of the complaining I just did at any rate.

What's the over/under on all the machete stat enchantments all being OP right out the gate. 'cause they're all looking OP right out of the gate.

 

[Negaduck]

New Maokai stuff looks good.

Lord aku?

 

[Einbroch]

dam ghost ur an ashsole

woooow

i knew he was angry but he needs to calm down ffs

 

[Leezard]

I'm not saying you should buy the stats (AD, HP, whatever) then get the upgraded smite. Upgrading smite stays first. I think you guys got me wrong.

I'm thinking of it in terms presentation and ease of readability. Right now, if you're going around and you tab to view your opponents items, what you'll see is an [unbelievably ugly] machete upgrade icon with a tiny colored dot on the bottom right corner. Even with the variations in the smite upgrades the information which must be presented the clearest is the raw stats on the final item, not the icon for the smite upgrade.

I think it should work something like this:
1.) Buy machete, it has the ol' machete icon we know and love.
2.) Enchant the machete with the smite upgrade of choice, it adds a coloured hue behind the machete icon for easy identification of which smite the jungler chose.
3.) Complete the upgraded machete which changes its icon to (just throwing this out there for examples) Hammer = AD item, Amulet = AP item, Helm = HP item, Spear = ASPD item with a small colored icon (pref a right angle triangle) on the bottom right corner for the enchantment that carried over from the machete.

Also, jungle items should have something common in their names for easy understanding. That name should of course be Wriggle's: Wriggle's Machete, Wriggle's Hammer, Wriggle's Amulet, Wriggle's Helm, and Wriggle's Spear. Just like "Doran's" is synonymous with starting items, make "Wriggle's" synonymous with jungle items.

Right now, no one can tell me with a straight face that a piece of meat with a tiny white dot intuitively means it's the AD/CDR/ArPen enchantment with the on enemy cast slow upgrade. That means absolutely nothing.

I wouldn't mind that, it would probably work out ok.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

woooow

i knew he was angry but he needs to calm down ffs

Any time anybody thinks you're an "ashsole," you better start evaluating yourself.

 

[jerd]

I already have haunted Mao and I hate having more than one skin for a champ but I really like the way Totemic Mao looks now.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

bronze 1 now.

 

[Newt]

dam ghost ur an ashsole

Calm down man, seriously.

 

[Edwardo]

Maybe it just wasn't meant to be

 

[Ghost is Bad]

fuck u newt u sivir trolling mother fucker

 

[Musician]

fuck u newt u sivir trolling mother fucker

And you wonder why I resent the comparison?

 

[Nev]

Yeah the season 5 changes are pretty dissapointing and scarce compared to 4's.

 

[drawkcaB]

Most disappointing for me is that there's glaring issues with itemization that Riot simply doesn't want to address.

 

[Type2]

fuck u newt u sivir trolling mother fucker

Oh ghost is back.... Oh wait banned again!

 

[Wolf Akela]

Most disappointing for me is that there's glaring issues with itemization that Riot simply doesn't want to address.

My issue is with mana dependent junglers who got by simply because of Spirit Stone. :/

 

[Ghost is Bad]

Oh ghost is back.... Oh wait banned again!

-.-

 

[Nekofrog]

My issue is with mana dependent junglers who got by simply because of Spirit Stone. :/

yeah i brought that up in an earlier post today

spirit stone allowed some jungle champions to barely survive long enough to be useful

with it gone and blue buff not giving mana regen anymore (is that change still in or is it out now?) = riot doesn't seem to want variety

 

[Pandaman]

the flat manap5 while in combat is pretty good.

 

[V_Arnold]

yeah i brought that up in an earlier post today

spirit stone allowed some jungle champions to barely survive long enough to be useful

with it gone and blue buff not giving mana regen anymore (is that change still in or is it out now?) = riot doesn't seem to want variety

Sorry, but do you even read the changelist? Smiting blue gives mana. You get straight up mp5 when in the jungle with the new Poacher's Knife. More variety is guaranteed at this point with the different smites.

 

[Nekofrog]

Sorry, but do you even read the changelist? Smiting blue gives mana. You get straight up mp5 when in the jungle with the new Poacher's Knife. More variety is guaranteed at this point with the different smites.

is this the new new changes, or the old new changes? i don't remember this in the old new changes

 

[Stone Ocean]

2014's preseason was a much bigger deal than this year's which has slight item changes and a jungle overhaul.

Changing how HP/MP regen works is not slight. It's a big deal for both mid and top lanes. The base stat distribution, baron and drag changes will also heavily change game flow and pacing.

Most disappointing for me is that there's glaring issues with itemization that Riot simply doesn't want to address.

In general or jungle-specific?

 

[Wolf Akela]

is this the new new changes, or the old new changes? i don't remember this in the old new changes

Old new. They even just buffed it to increase mana regen from 4 to 5 mana per second. I don't think I really ran out of mana on S4 Diana. In S5, I had to conserve on my usage of W.

Eve might be well in the new jungle because of Skirmisher's Saber + Devourer, similar to Yi. Haven't tried their clear speeds though.