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[poodaddy]

How are ya Gaf? Poodaddy here, and I'm sitting here enjoying a nice drink after an overhead press and deadlift routine, so I'm pretty good, thanks for asking. I like to lift the heavy shit. I know lots of you do too; hell, for some reason weight lifting seems to be the most popular "sport" for gamers by quite a measure, so I'm willing to bet that about a quarter of the people reading this either dabble with weight training or are pretty enthusiastic about it. Good shit man, keep getting those weights up and good on ya for doing it. As a former fatty who lost around 120 pounds of fat through weightlifting and have managed to keep it off for around fifteen years now, I can attest to how weight training, particularly with the goal of strength accrual, can be an incredibly beneficial and life changing experience. I very literally think everyone on the planet should endeavor towards building their strength through big compound movements. It boosts bone density, it boosts muscle, it boosts your basal metabolic rate, it boosts your athletic efficiency, it boosts confidence, and it's just good for you.

That being said, a lot of lifters out there, myself included, let their ego get the best of them in the gym. There's a focus on constantly lifting as heavy as possible and doing far too many sets, (this mind set is particularly prevalent with younger lifters), which is inevitably going to result in injury at some point. I'm living proof of this. I used to always train to the point that I literally couldn't lift the barbell with just one plate on each side, that was how I judged whether I was "finished" or not. Fast forward around sixteen years later, and I've had a left rotator cuff repair, extensive physical therapy for my right knee, three right foot repairs that included hardware insertion and removal, (which really sucked), extensive back issues, and I'm currently dealing with a pretty bad right shoulder injury.

Along with newer lifters, who tend to be too gung ho about lifting comes the older lifters who are too goddamn traditional with their lifting. Come on now, you know the ones. The same split for twenty years, it ain't broken don't fix it. They always bench wide even when their shoulders are fucked, just lift through the pain right? Always deadlift conventional, why ever attack a lift from multiple angles? Always do back squats with a straight bar, it's the king of weight lifting movements and it can't be altered don't ya know?!? Yeah......fuck that mentality. Look I get it, there's a lot of trendy bull shit out there, and people fall for a lot of nonsense. You've got that tried and true split, the tried and true bench, the tried and true dead, etc. etc., it can be kind of scary to try new things and there's the thought that it could negatively impact some of your lifts. Well, trying new things WILL absolutely drop your lifts at first, that much is true, but they eventually cause the lifts to go up because you're attacking the lift from a different angle, thus forcing the body to adapt to pressing, squatting, or pulling in a different manner, and it WILL accrue more strength over time.

The other thing that an overly traditional mind set towards weightlifting results in is a reticence towards utilizing specialty bars. I know this because I was certainly one of those people, (the same could be said for almost all of my acquaintances who lift), that is until around two and a half or three years ago. I finally went ahead and got a neutral grip bar for pressing, as I was dealing with some serious shoulder issues and I needed to find a way to more comfortably narrow my bench width, (tuck the elbows to get more triceps involvement than shoulders, those who have benched for a significant period of time know what I'm talking about), and change up my overhead press. And goddamn, this shit was one of the best things I've ever done for my body.
Look guys, I literally can't overhead press an unloaded barbell anymore! My shoulders are fucked, and they're fucked bad. That being said, I can press a neutral grip press bar, the same weight as a standard barbell, (45 pounds), for 145 for reps now! Trust me, I realize that's not an impressive overhead lift by any means, but believe me when I tell you that I never thought I'd overhead press past a hundred again after my shoulder surgery. This neutral grip bar allows me to continue performing overhead presses and bench presses with shoulders that really shouldn't be able to perform much of anything.

Without going too far into it, I'll also say that doing trap bar deadlifts every once in a while boosted my standard barbell deadlifts substantially, and though I have no proof of this, I think that strength accrual, (the trap bar deadlift stresses the anterior chain more than a standard deadlift as it loads the quads more), has had some follow through on the squat. I also have a very, very bad back. I know I know, everyone has their own way of squatting: high bar, low bar, front squat, yeah I got ya, and your way is definitely tried and true and trying new things is so scary!!! Here's the thing, I was benching more than I was back squatting, and yes I can hear you laughing and groaning through the internet, and yes I'm aware of how unhealthy that is. Enter safety squat bars, (I won't say the brand here as I don't want to be accused of trying to advertise for a company, but I will say that the brand matters here), and I have finally been able to squat again. No kidding, squatting feels so natural and safe now. Would my squat be considered legal for an IPF official meet? No. Fuck no. No it would not be passing at all.....because I don't squat with a straight bar at all anymore, and I probably never will again. I'll probably never overhead press with one again either, and I'll probably rarely bench with one. Know why? Cause I'm not a powerlifter. I don't lift for competition, or ego, or to impress other people, or any of that shit. I lift so that I'll be stronger tomorrow than today, over as long of a range of motion as I can muster, and I lift so that I can continue to put my daughter on my shoulders as I age. That's why I lift. So, with that being said, why do you lift? Is it for a similar reason? Well then, I have to ask, why are you still using a straight barbell for all of your lifts instead of trying something new? Chris Duffin once said that traditional barbells are responsible for so many issues that lifters face with their bodies over time, yet we continue to use them because, well, they're always been used. Well I say that's a shitty reason to do anything.

So, why did I make this post? Why did I take the time to write this, when I'm unsure anyone will really care? Honestly, I don't really know. I think I just love lifting, and I love lifters. I love the hobby, I love what it does for people's confidence and their health, and I want everyone to be able to do it for as long as possible. I realize I could have put this on any lifting forum, but I also love gaming, and gamers are the people that I want to see lifting more and taking their health more seriously, as that's the demographic that I can most closely relate to. I don't know that you guys love lifting, and I don't know that this will mean anything to you, but here's what I know: I want you to find a love for lifting, and I want you to lift for the rest of your life, and I want you to get your kids lifting. Ya know what else I want? I want you to have shoulders that can do more than just overhead press heavy shit. I want you to have spinal erectors that are good for more than just guarding your spine and pulling weight from the floor. I want your knees to be good for more than just squatting some heavy shit on your shoulders and back. I want you to LOVE lifting, and look forward to every session. I don't want you to dread going to the gym, I want you to love it. If what you're doing has been working great for you, and if your lifts with a straight up barbell have not caused you any issues, then rad man, keep on keeping on, I'm about it. But, if you have stalled in your training progression or if you have some training related injuries and chronic pain, consider changing up your split, consider lifting submaximally every once in a while, and consider trying out some specialty bars. I can absolutely vouch for swiss bars, foot ball bars, trap bars, and safety squat bars from experience, but there's so many different things to try out there and I think they're all kind of interesting. I'm in no way detracting from the barbell, I'm merely stating that the barbell need not be your only training tool, and that perhaps it shouldn't be.

I'm not putting a TL;DR cuz you can take five minutes out of your day to read this shit.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I like squatting...

 

[poodaddy]

I like squatting...

Lol I like that kind of squatting too. I just ran out of the last of my beer......now I is sad.

 

[Dontero]

Deadlifting is overrated.
It is like training your eyebrow muscles. Completely meaningless to life and it doesn't help with anything in real life.

 

[The Rain King]

Good stuff, OP. You see way too many lifters struggle with unnecessary injuries.

I do a deload week every ten weeks and it feels good. Just do ~60% of my normal reps and skip any "vanity" stuff like abs, triceps, curls. Also if I go low on incline bench I get a crunching noise in my left shoulder - so I don't go low on incline bench. I also overhead press with kettlebells. I know they're cringe, but it's a much more natural rotation for me.

Gotta stay safe when trying to stay strong.

 

[poodaddy]

Deadlifting is overrated.
It is like training your eyebrow muscles. Completely meaningless to life and it doesn't help with anything in real life.

Hard disagree but I respect your opinion. To me, deadlifting and sprinting are the most practical and primal exercises that a human can perform. Picking things up off the ground and moving as quick as you can are fundamental movements, and strengthening these pathways lead to strength accrual in all areas. Deadlifting also uses more muscle mass in one movement than any other exercise you can perform outside of highly technical Olympic lifts. Hamstrings, anterior traps, posterior traps, spinal erectors, abdominals and obliques, glutes, lats, rhomboids, forearms, biceps, quads, calves, neck, inner thighs, I mean goddamn. I'll deadlift until the day I die......but it's cool if you disagree bro.

 

[poodaddy]

Good stuff, OP. You see way too many lifters struggle with unnecessary injuries.

I do a deload week every ten weeks and it feels good. Just do ~60% of my normal reps and skip any "vanity" stuff like abs, triceps, curls. Also if I go low on incline bench I get a crunching noise in my left shoulder - so I don't go low on incline bench. I also overhead press with kettlebells. I know they're cringe, but it's a much more natural rotation for me.

Gotta stay safe when trying to stay strong.

Hey brother I don't think it's cringe. We're all different ya know? That's something I wanted to touch on in my post too, but I didn't get around to it. Dogma, (of all sorts but we're talking about lifting here), is almost always bullshit, and the fact that people think there's only one way to perform a movement is such a shame. For example, my wife loves some kettlebell swings, and goddamn if they don't work great for her, but they absolutely kill my back. That being said, front squats absolutely destroy her knees, but they work great for me. Rowing from the floor feels fine for me, but doing more "body builder" like rows feels better for my wife. She likes the neutral grip pull up, I like the chin up. I could go on and on lol, but what I'm saying is I get ya man. Find the best way to perform the movement pattern for you, fuck what other people think.

Off subject but slightly related, have you seen those Thompson Fatbells? I think that's what they're called, if not I'm sorry. Anyway, they're like a weird unholy mixture of the best parts of kettlebells and dumbbells, they're fucking rad. Of course, like most rad things, they're holy shit expensive, but I wouldn't mind get a few pairs one day for the garage gym. Check them out if you get a second, I think you'd dig em.

 

[bender]

 

[Dontero]

Picking things up off the ground

Then maybe you should try to actually pick something up like bag of cement rather than some stick with two weights attached at the end to "help" you. Dead-lifting has as much common with lifting things up as Yoga with sprinting. It helps build cardio and some muscles but rest of it is all wrong for that purpose.

To grab anything you have to first have good arms strength to pincer things which is something that doesn't happen in dead lifting. People even use crutches like crossed hands which obviously don't make sense for anything other than lifting heavy small pipe.

 

[The Rain King]

Hey brother I don't think it's cringe. We're all different ya know? That's something I wanted to touch on in my post too, but I didn't get around to it. Dogma, (of all sorts but we're talking about lifting here), is almost always bullshit, and the fact that people think there's only one way to perform a movement is such a shame. For example, my wife loves some kettlebell swings, and goddamn if they don't work great for her, but they absolutely kill my back. That being said, front squats absolutely destroy her knees, but they work great for me. Rowing from the floor feels fine for me, but doing more "body builder" like rows feels better for my wife. She likes the neutral grip pull up, I like the chin up. I could go on and on lol, but what I'm saying is I get ya man. Find the best way to perform the movement pattern for you, fuck what other people think.

Off subject but slightly related, have you seen those Thompson Fatbells? I think that's what they're called, if not I'm sorry. Anyway, they're like a weird unholy mixture of the best parts of kettlebells and dumbbells, they're fucking rad. Of course, like most rad things, they're holy shit expensive, but I wouldn't mind get a few pairs one day for the garage gym. Check them out if you get a second, I think you'd dig em.

Agreed. Doing higher reps just works for me. I wouldn't recommend anyone else doing high reps, but it's what I'm good with.

Looked up those fatbells and they look cool.

 

[poodaddy]

Stuff

Alright.

Agreed. Doing higher reps just works for me. I wouldn't recommend anyone else doing high reps, but it's what I'm good with.

Looked up those fatbells and they look cool.

Yeah I've been experimenting with some higher rep stuff too. In particular I find that higher reps actually helps the deadlift, even if it hurt my ego to drop the weight. I find sixes and eights to be better rep ranges, over all, for me in most lifts, but I still go fives for overhead press. Lower reps work great for my squats as well in terms of strength accrual, buuuuuut my spine can't handle the load as well so I go higher reps on squats lol.

 

[bati]

Yeah, too many people adjust their bodies to programs/exercises rather than the other way around. I got a pretty nasty case of elbow tendonitis last year (only now finally under control, after 2 shots of cortisone) plus a back injury and had to change my entire training program. Once Corona hit and gyms closed I had to make do with bodyweight exercises.

Couple things I learned about my body, at 35:

- standard deadlifts from ground are a no-go for me due to ratio of torso/arm length and hip mobility. Risk of injury is too high. Compensated by sticking to Romanian deadlift.
- I can't squat deep without hunching my upper back, and I tend to go into hyperextension under heavy weight. It's how I injured my back. Whenever I feel like doing legs, which isn't very often, because I spent years being fat and ended up with huge thighs and calves, plus I do lots of rollerblading, I simply do leg press, leg extensions and romanian deadlift. No more weighted squats.

- I can't do standing OHP without feeling significant pressure on my spine. Resorted to seated machine OHP which is much safer, and lowered the overall volume for front delts significantly because they're my weak spot and I already hit them pretty hard with standard and incline bench press. Adding significant isolation work to it leads to overtraining in my case.

- I have really poor mind-muscle connection with my biceps and had to adjust position with curls several times before I found one that really gives me a nice biceps burn instead of leveraging my forearms

- as much as I like skullcrushers I had to drop them because they put too much pressure on my elbow tendon.

- for some reason I got much better side delt gains from doing pushups and dips than I ever did with lateral raises. I still do them but I often feel like I'm wasting time with them.

- I started working on mobility, especially shoulders - my rotator cuffs are pretty tight and I can't go with my arms very far back, which limits me with some movements.

- I stopped doing chinups because I started developing pain on the inside of both my elbows. Pronated and neutral grip only from now on.

And above all, I stopped going to failure and limited amount of exercises because I realized I was frequently overtraining. My recovery just isn't that great I guess. I also realized that doing low rep long rest (4 mins between sets) training works really well for me on some exercises, during Corona I was doing about 10 sets of 5 or 6 pullups per set, with 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 pyramid (1 min rest) at the end, almost every day, which amounted to 75-85 pullups per day and did wonders for my back and even my max reps. Similar with dips, if I limited a set to 8 and did 8-10 sets I could go again the next 2-3 days and then take one day off. In comparison, if I did 4-5 sets of pushups to failure I couldn't do anything that even remotely used shoulders the next day.

tldr - listen to your body and experiment a bit.

 

[poodaddy]

Yeah, too many people adjust their bodies to programs/exercises rather than the other way around. I got a pretty nasty case of elbow tendonitis last year (only now finally under control, after 2 shots of cortisone) plus a back injury and had to change my entire training program. Once Corona hit and gyms closed I had to make do with bodyweight exercises.

Couple things I learned about my body, at 35:

- standard deadlifts from ground are a no-go for me due to ratio of torso/arm length and hip mobility. Risk of injury is too high. Compensated by sticking to Romanian deadlift.
- I can't squat deep without hunching my upper back, and I tend to go into hyperextension under heavy weight. It's how I injured my back. Whenever I feel like doing legs, which isn't very often, because I spent years being fat and ended up with huge thighs and calves, plus I do lots of rollerblading, I simply do leg press, leg extensions and romanian deadlift. No more weighted squats.

- I can't do standing OHP without feeling significant pressure on my spine. Resorted to seated machine OHP which is much safer, and lowered the overall volume for front delts significantly because they're my weak spot and I already hit them pretty hard with standard and incline bench press. Adding significant isolation work to it leads to overtraining in my case.

- I have really poor mind-muscle connection with my biceps and had to adjust position with curls several times before I found one that really gives me a nice biceps burn instead of leveraging my forearms

- as much as I like skullcrushers I had to drop them because they put too much pressure on my elbow tendon.

- for some reason I got much better side delt gains from doing pushups and dips than I ever did with lateral raises. I still do them but I often feel like I'm wasting time with them.

- I started working on mobility, especially shoulders - my rotator cuffs are pretty tight and I can't go with my arms very far back, which limits me with some movements.

- I stopped doing chinups because I started developing pain on the inside of both my elbows. Pronated and neutral grip only from now on.

And above all, I stopped going to failure and limited amount of exercises because I realized I was frequently overtraining. My recovery just isn't that great I guess. I also realized that doing low rep long rest (4 mins between sets) training works really well for me on some exercises, during Corona I was doing about 10 sets of 5 or 6 pullups per set, with 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 pyramid (1 min rest) at the end, almost every day, which amounted to 75-85 pullups per day and did wonders for my back and even my max reps. Similar with dips, if I limited a set to 8 and did 8-10 sets I could go again the next 2-3 days and then take one day off. In comparison, if I did 4-5 sets of pushups to failure I couldn't do anything that even remotely used shoulders the next day.

tldr - listen to your body and experiment a bit.

Alright, now that I'm fully conscious lol. Skull crushers had to go for me too brother. I'm dealing with a lot of left elbow pain right now as well, so I can definitely empathize with that. Skull crushers are a great triceps exercise, but ya know what, so are dips and they don't fuck my elbows up near as ad, though they are admittedly a bit hard on the shoulders, but nothing's truly safe lol. My recovery isn't great either, my wife actually has much better recovery than I do. I wonder how much of that is due to the fact I don't sleep much, (probably quite a lot lol), but yeah, it is what it is, so I had to drop many exercises as well. I just go for the big lifts now, and I train my levers a bit with VERY light weight. I really do mean that by the way, I'll do side delt and rear delts for extremely high sets with 2.5 pounds lol. I still go heavy on the big lifts, as I think that's where strength accrual matters, but going heavy when training levers seems pointless to me now and just dangerous. It's interesting that your chin up/pull up experience is exactly opposite of mine lol. Again though, we're all so different. I'll probably never do another pronated pull up again, and to be honest most pronated things fuck me up. I always prefer supine or neutral when given the option. Agreed fully on training to failure! It's honestly silly, and when you learn to leave that shit behind and train submaximally more often than training to max capacity, then I find that it does result in vastly more hypertrophy and muscular endurance. I do a very similar chin up routine to your pull up one, in part because it was recommended as a way to fix elbow tendonitis, and it's been working great. 20 sets of 1/3 of pull up max with one minute between each set, lots of great tendon work, and it's even helping my shoulder and back pain, as most hanging exercises do nicely decompress the spine. Bro, I can empathize so much with poor mind muscle connection on the biceps, but honestly I just stopped worrying about it. It turns out the biceps muscle is an extremely weak elbow flexor,(proof of this is that many lifters tear their biceps when doing alternate grip deadlifts and opt to not even repair the bicep as it doesn't have much effect on the deadlift potential), so I don't do any movements that "focus" on the biceps exclusively, and honestly I'm happier and healthier for it. My biceps are stronger and more defined, (not necessarily larger), than they've ever been, and they only get work through chins, cleans, and whatever tertiary follow through comes from deadlifts. Also, dude I empathize so much with the standing over head press issues, and I'm telling you, if it wasn't for the neutral grip bar, that exercise would be in the iron graveyard. It takes some getting used to, as you kind of have to relearn the movement, but I promise you that the neutral grip helps so much with overhead pressing it's unreal. It also simulates a log press as well, which is kind of cool if you ever want to try log pressing in the future, (FUN!), so I really just can't say enough good about the neutral grip press bar. Also completely agree that dips are way better for deltoid development than side and rear delts, and I also don't really know why I do them lol. Old habits die hard.

Oh, and I wanted to mention something. Since you have tight rotator cuffs like I do, I figured I'd mention that I've been using this accessory lately, it's called a bowtie, for keeping my shoulders back and tight during my work outs. I believe it's from spud inc, and it's really fucking uncomfortable to wear if you train in a sleeveless shirt so I don't recommend that lol, but if you wanna train in a t shirt and try this out, it's been unbelievably helpful for keeping my shoulders from rolling too far forward during pressing movements during training, and in general it's been helping my posture, (helping to reduce the "gorilla look" with that shoulder roll thing that bench pressing does over time), so maybe look into that and see if it's something you may be interested in!

......I need to work on how I format my replies lol.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Come hang out in the fitness thread

Fitness |OT| Pumpin' Iron and Spittin' Blood.

Well, we need a new thread. This is nothing fancy. Where my workout bros at. @Tesseract @DavidGzz @TheExorzist @triplestation @Off Duty Ninja

www.neogaf.com

To the main point of your OP, i learned the American power-lifting routine while doing sports as a kid / teen. It didn't keep me from getting fat in my adult life, but it did build muscle. Strengthening each muscle from every different angle (which you describe in your OP as a way to build overall strength) takes so long. Most of the body is inactive while I sat and did barbel curls or bench presses or lifts. i would rather do as many full-body exercises as I can, not only to save time but also to build up the body holistically. The body responds to input. If you input extra sugar, it happily stores it in your gut. If you input barbel curls, you'll get much better at barbel curls. If you input turkish getups, your body will knit muscle together to do turkish getups, etc.

so in March I switched to kettlebells, supplemented with gym rings, jump rope, and resistance bands. I've never looked back. Building up your tendons and connective tissue is more important than building red muscle, which is probably the easiest tissue to build when it comes to fitness. Developing core strength and then expanding your strength outward into the limbs seems to be the foundation for many martial arts and sports disciplines.

Don't just switch up bars, switch up routines and disciplines. Instead of deadlifts, do 1h farmer walks for a week. It works the same core muscles. Instead of jerks, do kettlebell snatches. Do turkish getups and overhead farmer walks. (I'm just filling in the blanks with what I'd do, but obviously you can make your own exercise Mad Lib).

Edit: spelling errors and clarification.

 

[and 3 others]

I always preach keeping your ego outta lifting, but I hardly follow my own advice.

I've lost probably 15% of my strength in the last 6 years or so. I always have to pull weight off almost every exercise nowadays.

 

[bati]

Building up your tendons and connective tissue is more important than building red muscle, which is probably the easiest tissue to build when it comes to fitness.

This can't be overstated enough. It's a shame that most of us realize this when we're old. It's completely different if you get into weightlifting at 20 compared to 30+. Now I'm trying to compensate with glucosamine and some other supplements (besides eating healthy in general) but there's no cure for passage of time.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

This can't be overstated enough. It's a shame that most of us realize this when we're old. It's completely different if you get into weightlifting at 20 compared to 30+. Now I'm trying to compensate with glucosamine and some other supplements (besides eating healthy in general) but there's no cure for passage of time.

I was taught that if you need a belt, then you need a stronger back and a lighter lift. As those Smith machines became more popular, I stuck to free weights and bars. It just didn't make sense that you should load your arms and legs with more weight than your tendons could handle normally. Your red tissue grows faster than tendon / white muscle tissue. You can literally rip your tendons apart with your own muscle tension (this happens to abusers of steroids). Wiggling and shaking and struggling to hold a bar was a sign that you had too much weight.

Yet I saw friends and teammates get injuries like torn ACL and elbow / knee tendonitis and other tendon / joint related injuries. These dudes could deadlift or squat high weight but they were glass cannons.

 

[Kev Kev]

I'm not putting a TL;DR cuz you can take five minutes out of your day to read this shit.

 

[Kev Kev]

I was taught that if you need a belt, then you need a stronger back and a lighter lift. As those Smith machines became more popular, I stuck to free weights and bars. It just didn't make sense that you should load your arms and legs with more weight than your tendons could handle normally. Your red tissue grows faster than tendon / white muscle tissue. You can literally rip your tendons apart with your own muscle tension (this happens to abusers of steroids). Wiggling and shaking and struggling to hold a bar was a sign that you had too much weight.

Yet I saw friends and teammates get injuries like torn ACL and elbow / knee tendonitis and other tendon / joint related injuries. These dudes could deadlift or squat high weight but they were glass cannons.

i've heard about the same. generally, i would only use a belt if i was trying to max out (i never even got 315 so i definitely should have been dead lifting more and forgetting maxing out but i wanted to do something with 300 pounds on the bar lol). i think what happens is you see one guy using a belt and dead lifting 495lbs and you think "oh that must be it" or maybe you sub consciously tuck it away and eventually you find yourself using a belt for everything

so i think there are benefits to a belt, but you should be using them sparingly, and to get a little help on those big weight lifts

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

i've heard about the same. generally, i would only use a belt if i was trying to max out (i never even got 315 so i definitely should have been dead lifting more and forgetting maxing out but i wanted to do something with 300 pounds on the bar lol). i think what happens is you see one guy using a belt and dead lifting 495lbs and you think "oh that must be it" or maybe you sub consciously tuck it away and eventually you find yourself using a belt for everything

so i think there are benefits to a belt, but you should be using them sparingly, and to get a little help on those big weight lifts

I am not an expert trying to pass off expert knowledge, but I still question how a belt can be "beneficial" if it is allowing the lifter to strain and stimulate your muscles beyond what your back would normally be able to handle. Does this actually strengthen the back? If so, why do people who perform these exercises on a regular basis suffer from back injuries? I thought the back was getting stronger?! I'm sure it's just "bad form" instead of a deeper fundamental problem. "Bad form" is the gym bro's boogeyman.

There's a youtuber I watch from time who mocks ego lifters and he calls it the +10 Strength Belt lol

I thought the belt was intended for situations like "I can comfortably do 5 reps at 300, but today I'm sore so I'll put on the belt for safety and will do 2 reps at 300". It's more of a safety/recovery tool, not a crutch to push your body into weights that it cannot safely handle.

Is the parking break for safety while parked or is it for extra-sharp turns? You can use it for the latter and look cool while doing it but ya gonna get hurt maybe.

 

[notseqi]

Is the parking break for safety while parked or is it for extra-sharp turns? You can use it for the latter and look cool while doing it but ya gonna get hurt maybe.

As with straps it should be put on when going for heavy lifts on which you would otherwise struggle or if you have actual issues with connective tissue, avoiding hernias. Heavy squats and deads in particular push your abs and the surrounding area quite far and if you have tried 400+lbs without a belt I hope you wore one next time, for long time healths sake. Straps and belt at low weights reek of shit progress.

 

[Rat Rage]

That being said, a lot of lifters out there, myself included, let their ego get the best of them in the gym. There's a focus on constantly lifting as heavy as possible and doing far too many sets, (this mind set is particularly prevalent with younger lifters), which is inevitably going to result in injury at some point.

This is the biggest problem for any inexperienced lifter. I used to have shoulder problems due to that, but fortunately managed to get them sorted out.

What many don't realize is: when you lift, you shock/damage your muscles, so that they need to be repaired by the body and therefore grow stronger/bigger. However, when you lift really heavy not only your muscles get damaged and stimulated, but your joins, bones and all the soft tissue structures that are around them take a hit as well. They have to adapt as well over time.

It's very easy to damage these parts too much with overtraining / wrong training / too heavy training, which not only can set you back for weeks, but sometimes cause long-term damage/pain.

Therefore: train smart, train right (no wrong and dangerous movements), not too much, not too heavy, and give your muscles as well as the surrounding structures (joins, tissues, bones) enough time to recover.

 

[supernova8]

I know a great specialty bar. Mainly specialises in rum and vodka.

 

[bronk]

I've been lifting very heavy lately. I'm always feeling jacked up. I really think I'm gonna start switching things up.

 

[Tesseract]

this is why calisthenics are vital, keeps your stabilizers and connectives strong

i'm in general agreement re: the belt, but there's exceptions for heavy deads and the like

(if the bar ain't bending, yer just pretending)

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

this is why calisthenics are vital, keeps your stabilizers and connectives strong

i'm in general agreement re: the belt, but there's exceptions for heavy deads and the like

(if the bar ain't bending, yer just pretending)

What's a good "trained" benchpress, a good "trained" squat, and a good "trained" deadlift (on the hex bar)? Asking genuinely, because I'm years and years removed from that style of training. I have no clue what is considered strong for a gym rat.

Generally milestones were (are?):

- benching your bodyweight
- deadlifting your bodyweight
- squatting your bodyweight + 100 lbs

As a personal bet / challenge, I think I could meet similar milestones without specifically training for those weights / exercises. In other words, gimme another year of kettlebelling and I bet I could perform all three listed above without specifically training those lifts. I think the benefit of stability in your limbs and core is vastly understated.

Your grip, for instance, will "inform" the limb that it is okay to exert more force. The brain unconsciously holds back extreme force because it doesn't want to risk injury, but if you are gripping safely, it disengages this safety mechanism and allows you to push harder. This is why strongmen practiced "impossible isometrics" where they would push against trees or attempt to bend metal bars, day after day engaging that muscle fascia and iso strength.

 

[manfestival]

I remember trying deadlifting when I was 17. I did it just to get into my "exclusive" school 1000 pound club(deadlift, squat, and bench combined). However, I swore to never do it again since I hated that exercise.

 

[poodaddy]

Come hang out in the fitness thread

Fitness |OT| Pumpin' Iron and Spittin' Blood.

Well, we need a new thread. This is nothing fancy. Where my workout bros at. @Tesseract @DavidGzz @TheExorzist @triplestation @Off Duty Ninja

www.neogaf.com

To the main point of your OP, i learned the American power-lifting routine while doing sports as a kid / teen. It didn't keep me from getting fat in my adult life, but it did build muscle. Strengthening each muscle from every different angle (which you describe in your OP as a way to build overall strength) takes so long. Most of the body is inactive while I sat and did barbel curls or bench presses or lifts. i would rather do as many full-body exercises as I can, not only to save time but also to build up the body holistically. The body responds to input. If you input extra sugar, it happily stores it in your gut. If you input barbel curls, you'll get much better at barbel curls. If you input turkish getups, your body will knit muscle together to do turkish getups, etc.

so in March I switched to kettlebells, supplemented with gym rings, jump rope, and resistance bands. I've never looked back. Building up your tendons and connective tissue is more important than building red muscle, which is probably the easiest tissue to build when it comes to fitness. Developing core strength and then expanding your strength outward into the limbs seems to be the foundation for many martial arts and sports disciplines.

Don't just switch up bars, switch up routines and disciplines. Instead of deadlifts, do 1h farmer walks for a week. It works the same core muscles. Instead of jerks, do kettlebell snatches. Do turkish getups and overhead farmer walks. (I'm just filling in the blanks with what I'd do, but obviously you can make your own exercise Mad Lib).

Edit: spelling errors and clarification.

This is great stuff to consider brother, and I'll give some of this stuff a shot. I do farmer carries with my trap bar every once in a while, though I haven't tried them one handed, I should definitely give them a shot, though I'd have to grab some Farmer handles I guess. I can definitely attest to and agree with your praise for band work and tendon work; I've been trying to get more band work into my program, and good lord are they nice to have. I also use them for dynamic weight on the barbell; I picked up some band pegs for my squat rack recently, and goddamn a heavy banded squat is just such a different sensation than static weight. It feels more comfortable for my spine, but it really works the stabilizer muscles in a huge way. Really enjoying band stuff. I have to admit that kettlebells and I don't always get along, but I'm trying to become better friends with them lol. My wife sure does like em though!!

I'll check out the fitness OT, thanks for the invite!!

 

[poodaddy]

I've been lifting very heavy lately. I'm always feeling jacked up. I really think I'm gonna start switching things up.

Let me know if you need suggestions brethren. I've had so many goddamn injuries that I've picked up a lot of tips over the years. The nice thing about my being such a stupid goddamn fuck up is that I can at least share my experiences and stories with others to try to keep you off the surgery table at the very least lol.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

This is great stuff to consider brother, and I'll give some of this stuff a shot. I do farmer carries with my trap bar every once in a while, though I haven't tried them one handed, I should definitely give them a shot, though I'd have to grab some Farmer handles I guess. I can definitely attest to and agree with your praise for band work and tendon work; I've been trying to get more band work into my program, and good lord are they nice to have. I also use them for dynamic weight on the barbell; I picked up some band pegs for my squat rack recently, and goddamn a heavy banded squat is just such a different sensation than static weight. It feels more comfortable for my spine, but it really works the stabilizer muscles in a huge way. Really enjoying band stuff. I have to admit that kettlebells and I don't always get along, but I'm trying to become better friends with them lol. My wife sure does like em though!!

I'll check out the fitness OT, thanks for the invite!!

If you're willing to take just one suggestion: start doing turkish getups, only once or twice per arm, every day. Doesn't have to be heavy, even 20 or 30 pounds is sufficient. If they're too hard, try a lower weight or try training with overhead farmer walks.

Anyway, after a week of turkish getups you will see the payoff in your other lifts, I'm 100% confident of that. Kettlebells are potent.

Hope to see you around in the OT. I'm always trying to learn more and to share what has worked for me.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm not putting a TL;DR cuz you can take five minutes out of your day to read this shit.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Lifting weight is for pussies.

 

[Yams]

GSP's trainer Firas Zahabi said something very similar to you OP, or at least related to what you said about maximum intensity. This ten minute clip from Rogan's podcast completely changed how I think about exercise. I don't power lift, but I did exercise under the assumption that I had to give my maximum effort every time out. It just resulted in injury. I'm curious what you think about this. I realize it might be a bit controversial, at least in weight lifting circles.

 

[haxan7]

no TLDR with that giant wall of text, then a roid rage, entitled comment at the end? User ignore + thread ignore, and I'm not even kidding.

 

[poodaddy]

If you're willing to take just one suggestion: start doing turkish getups, only once or twice per arm, every day. Doesn't have to be heavy, even 20 or 30 pounds is sufficient. If they're too hard, try a lower weight or try training with overhead farmer walks.

Anyway, after a week of turkish getups you will see the payoff in your other lifts, I'm 100% confident of that. Kettlebells are potent.

Hope to see you around in the OT. I'm always trying to learn more and to share what has worked for me.

You know, I actually remember Jim Wendler swearing by turkish get ups. I've never tried then, but if it's good enough for Mr. Wendler, then it's good enough for me, so I definitely think you're right that they're the real deal. I need to look up an exercise tutorial, I'll try them today and get back to you later on it. I think I'm gonna like them a lot, as I LOVE full body movements man, they're just fun lol.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

You know, I actually remember Jim Wendler swearing by turkish get ups. I've never tried then, but if it's good enough for Mr. Wendler, then it's good enough for me, so I definitely think you're right that they're the real deal. I need to look up an exercise tutorial, I'll try them today and get back to you later on it. I think I'm gonna like them a lot, as I LOVE full body movements man, they're just fun lol.

Kettlebells are all about full body, ballistic movements. Probably something you should at least look into, based on what you've shared so far in the thread. I'm an amateur. I've only been using them since just before the lockdown, so take that for what it is.

GSP's trainer Firas Zahabi said something very similar to you OP, or at least related to what you said about maximum intensity. This ten minute clip from Rogan's podcast completely changed how I think about exercise. I don't power lift, but I did exercise under the assumption that I had to give my maximum effort every time out. It just resulted in injury. I'm curious what you think about this. I realize it might be a bit controversial, at least in weight lifting circles.

Quoting for visibility. I've actually sent this video to my dad to coax him back into fitness training. The mentality is 100% on the money. Train for tomorrow and the day after. Respect twinges of pain and stiffness and soreness.

 

[poodaddy]

GSP's trainer Firas Zahabi said something very similar to you OP, or at least related to what you said about maximum intensity. This ten minute clip from Rogan's podcast completely changed how I think about exercise. I don't power lift, but I did exercise under the assumption that I had to give my maximum effort every time out. It just resulted in injury. I'm curious what you think about this. I realize it might be a bit controversial, at least in weight lifting circles.

I watched that a while back and I agree one hundred percent. Submaximal work is so good for the body, and it allows you to recover so much faster and get back to training faster. I say consistency beats intensity, so doing less during training sessions and training more often is definitely optimal, at least in my opinion. For example, the pullup/chin up work I was discussing with another poster earlier. Quite a few sets of very submaximal work, which results in VASTLY more reps than one could possibly do if they went to failure with every set. It's great stuff for sure, and I highly recommend that everyone should try submaximal work at some point. I don't think it should necessarily always be the goal, but for certain movements, less can be more. Another great example is sprints. I can out sprint my wife with relative ease, and she maxes her Air Force Pt test run requirements, but I almost never run lol. I just do sprints with her about once a week, sometimes once every two weeks, and I'll sprint as hard and fast as I can in a field we go to for maaaaayyyyyybeeee like seven or eight times. She does more, because, well, she's much more gung ho about training than I am. And yet.....I remain faster. Probably because I can train the next day, and she runs so damn hard that she can barely move her legs after, then she comes home and starts cranking out weight sit ups and hip thrusts in the floor! The woman's crazy haha. I love her, but she's a little too into the lifting thing sometimes, but hey, she hasn't had any injuries like I've had, so I guess she's got some lucky genetics. I keep telling her that it will probably happen one day though, so I wish she'd dial things back a bit.

Got a little side tracked there, but yeah, I agree, sub maximal work is rad.

 

[ipukespiders]

Deadlifting is overrated.
It is like training your eyebrow muscles. Completely meaningless to life and it doesn't help with anything in real life.

Oh shit, you almost had me. Well done.

 

[Dontero]

GSP's trainer Firas Zahabi said something very similar to you OP

MMA fighters train for endurance and speed not for strength and muscle mass. Good example of that is Brock which was absolute beast strength wise but he gassed out instantly in his first fights. Other example of that is Pudzianowski ex strongman champion which went into mma as kind of meme and all that deadlift, core etc strength was useless because he would gass out after 30 seconds, it took him like 5 years of completely changing how he looks to be able to last few minutes in fight, his tank is still low and he is still pretty buff but he doesn't look like Thor anymore.

The problem here is that most of people don't want strengh, they want to look like greek god. Guess what if you are not sore then your muscles don't grow. Your muscles grow in size by damaging muscle which is why that sore feeling is, which is why intensity training is better for muscle growth than cardio because cardio doesn't damage muscles much. Which is why training while being sore is 101 of getting fucked like snapping your muscles or tendons while training.

pudzianowski when he won 5 times in row strongman championship

pudzianowski now:

 

[Tesseract]

zahabi is good people and everything he said there is true but that discussion about scientific truth and philosophy made my insides hurt

poor grasp of quantum randomness, harris was right to rake him

 

[notseqi]

MMA fighters train for endurance and speed not for strength and muscle mass. Good example of that is Brock which was absolute beast strength wise but he gassed out instantly in his first fights. Other example of that is Pudzianowski ex strongman champion which went into mma as kind of meme and all that deadlift, core etc strength was useless because he would gass out after 30 seconds, it took him like 5 years of completely changing how he looks to be able to last few minutes in fight, his tank is still low and he is still pretty buff but he doesn't look like Thor anymore.

The problem here is that most of people don't want strengh, they want to look like greek god. Guess what if you are not sore then your muscles don't grow. Your muscles grow in size by damaging muscle which is why that sore feeling is, which is why intensity training is better for muscle growth than cardio because cardio doesn't damage muscles much. Which is why training while being sore is 101 of getting fucked like snapping your muscles or tendons while training.

pudzianowski when he won 5 times in row strongman championship

pudzianowski now:

Everything I read from you on this forum makes me think that you're a pretentious dink in your early 20s without much practical knowledge of anything you talk about.
Stating an observation, not a problem for me. I almost enjoy reading your batshit inane musings and then thinking 'waaaaait a minute, I know this nut'. There's not many like you here.

 

[Rikkori]

100% agreed. I mostly focused on just working around with the oly bar because of simplicity & being a cheap-skate. Been eyeing getting a trap bar for a long time though, so I'm definitely going to do it soon, and probably add a safety squat bar as well. It's just that with a home gym you kinda have to be a lot more mindful of space and I like keeping it minimal. I don't remember, I think it was on Tim Ferriss' podcast I first heard about what sick results some dude training olympians was getting with the trap bar for deadlifts, and that was for helping them be faster (runners) even, rather than straight up strength/weightlifting benefits.

 

[Dontero]

Everything I read from you on this forum makes me think that you're a pretentious dink in your early 20s without much practical knowledge of anything you talk about.
Stating an observation, not a problem for me. I almost enjoy reading your batshit inane musings and then thinking 'waaaaait a minute, I know this nut'. There's not many like you here.

lol maybe state what is not true about what i said.

 

[notseqi]

lol maybe state what is not true about what i said.

Nobody is talking about the UFC, everybody was talking about a training mode in which you don't exhaust yourself and go for PRs every gym session.
I realize that your reply doesn't really warrant a back-and-forth because you're a hands-empty kind of guy but for people who might take interest in the topic, which you managed almost completely to avoid, a discussion might be worthy:

It's about being able to train for a long time and maintain a certain level of fitness without injuring yourself every other day, forcing you to not being able to continue your training as planned - and the benefits of this tactic in an aging body.
I frequently look at the next excercise after finishing my long sets with low weight 1h+ in and think 'ah, no, tomorrow is another day'. I want to stay fit and capable, I'm not trying to win a competition, not even against myself.

 

[kittoo]

Great post poodaddy
One question though. I did deadlifts for a while and my lower back would almost always hurt after, no matter how correct form I tried to do it with. Then I read at quite a few places that if not done correctly, deadlifts can really fuck up your backs. And I never want back aches or spinal issues. So I stopped doing deadlifts. In fact, as far as lower body is concerned, I stick with exercises where I can really isolate the muscle and feel the tension there. Trying to keep the bones as free from pressure as possible. So I mostly do Bulgarian squats, lunges and a lot of weightless but high intensity exercises.
Good strategy? I dont want a huge butt either. Just a decent sized good shaped one.

 

[Dontero]

It's about being able to train for a long time and maintain a certain level of fitness without injuring yourself every other day, forcing you to not being able to continue your training as planned - and the benefits of this tactic in an aging body.
I frequently look at the next excercise after finishing my long sets with low weight 1h+ in and think 'ah, no, tomorrow is another day'. I want to stay fit and capable, I'm not trying to win a competition, not even against myself.

What does "maintaining certain level of fitness" means here ? You want to keep health ? Muscle mass ? Strength ? Because those 3 are completely separate topics.

My argument about UFC was response to someone saying that dude had great tip for training. The problem here is that he was UFC trainer speaking to Rogan which himself is martial artist and freak who is juicing himself with testosterone and hormones to stay freak along with heavy dose of training. It would be like listening to Usain Bolt coach for tips on how to run 40km marathon.

If you are concerned about maintaining your health you should invest in swimming as you get older. Injury risk free and it will keep you more healthy than some deadlifting. It is also not boring as spending hours in gym + swimming naturally has benefits for older guys as you both streatch and ease stress on joints.

Last thing you want is your knee to pop when you deadlift or fuck up your joints. Those are not something you can "train" but you have those and you need to care for them or they won't come back no matter how great your training be. Deadlifting while older is asking for that.

 

[notseqi]

Cool story bro. People have been discussing the thread topic and the video posted should be seen in that light.

I am not taking training advice from you.

 

[Max_Po]

Cool story bro. People have been discussing the thread topic and the video posted should be seen in that light.

I am not taking training advice from you.

 

[bati]

Alright, now that I'm fully conscious lol. Skull crushers had to go for me too brother. I'm dealing with a lot of left elbow pain right now as well, so I can definitely empathize with that. Skull crushers are a great triceps exercise, but ya know what, so are dips and they don't fuck my elbows up near as ad, though they are admittedly a bit hard on the shoulders, but nothing's truly safe lol. My recovery isn't great either, my wife actually has much better recovery than I do. I wonder how much of that is due to the fact I don't sleep much, (probably quite a lot lol), but yeah, it is what it is, so I had to drop many exercises as well. I just go for the big lifts now, and I train my levers a bit with VERY light weight. I really do mean that by the way, I'll do side delt and rear delts for extremely high sets with 2.5 pounds lol. I still go heavy on the big lifts, as I think that's where strength accrual matters, but going heavy when training levers seems pointless to me now and just dangerous. It's interesting that your chin up/pull up experience is exactly opposite of mine lol. Again though, we're all so different. I'll probably never do another pronated pull up again, and to be honest most pronated things fuck me up. I always prefer supine or neutral when given the option. Agreed fully on training to failure! It's honestly silly, and when you learn to leave that shit behind and train submaximally more often than training to max capacity, then I find that it does result in vastly more hypertrophy and muscular endurance. I do a very similar chin up routine to your pull up one, in part because it was recommended as a way to fix elbow tendonitis, and it's been working great. 20 sets of 1/3 of pull up max with one minute between each set, lots of great tendon work, and it's even helping my shoulder and back pain, as most hanging exercises do nicely decompress the spine. Bro, I can empathize so much with poor mind muscle connection on the biceps, but honestly I just stopped worrying about it. It turns out the biceps muscle is an extremely weak elbow flexor,(proof of this is that many lifters tear their biceps when doing alternate grip deadlifts and opt to not even repair the bicep as it doesn't have much effect on the deadlift potential), so I don't do any movements that "focus" on the biceps exclusively, and honestly I'm happier and healthier for it. My biceps are stronger and more defined, (not necessarily larger), than they've ever been, and they only get work through chins, cleans, and whatever tertiary follow through comes from deadlifts. Also, dude I empathize so much with the standing over head press issues, and I'm telling you, if it wasn't for the neutral grip bar, that exercise would be in the iron graveyard. It takes some getting used to, as you kind of have to relearn the movement, but I promise you that the neutral grip helps so much with overhead pressing it's unreal. It also simulates a log press as well, which is kind of cool if you ever want to try log pressing in the future, (FUN!), so I really just can't say enough good about the neutral grip press bar. Also completely agree that dips are way better for deltoid development than side and rear delts, and I also don't really know why I do them lol. Old habits die hard.

Oh, and I wanted to mention something. Since you have tight rotator cuffs like I do, I figured I'd mention that I've been using this accessory lately, it's called a bowtie, for keeping my shoulders back and tight during my work outs. I believe it's from spud inc, and it's really fucking uncomfortable to wear if you train in a sleeveless shirt so I don't recommend that lol, but if you wanna train in a t shirt and try this out, it's been unbelievably helpful for keeping my shoulders from rolling too far forward during pressing movements during training, and in general it's been helping my posture, (helping to reduce the "gorilla look" with that shoulder roll thing that bench pressing does over time), so maybe look into that and see if it's something you may be interested in!

......I need to work on how I format my replies lol.

Wow, almost missed this reply because you edited lol.

It's really reassuring when you read what kind of issues other gym people go through, makes you realize we all have obstacles to climb over. Question - on which side was your elbow tendonitis? I've started developing golfer's elbow symptoms (both arms lol) from pullups with inner side of palms facing towards me (chinups), that's why I switched. I might have made a mistake in my previous post, I've seen conflicting info on google regarding the term when the inside of the palms is facing you on the bar - some call it supinated, some pronated, which is correct? English is not my native language, so I apologize for any confusion. Anyway, my tendonitis case was lateral epicondylitis (outside, tennis elbow), also left hand. Incidentally, I had to stop running as well because my left knee tendon (patela?) hurts like hell after a few kms. Switched to rollerblading as my main form of cardio and having a blast. I seem to be weaker overall on the left side, with the exception of my chest and shoulder. I guess the body compensates in its own ways. I've tried focusing on onehanded exercises in the past (dumbbell press instead of barbell press etc) but haven't noticed any marked improvement - strength wise both sides are about equal, but I can feel the connective tissue being weaker on left side. Especially noticeable when I pick up heavy weights with one hand and try to let them hang for a bit, or do something like farmer walks. Absolute murder on my left elbow.

The neutral grip bar was something that came up in a discussion with a friend recently when he bought one for bi/triceps work, which I greatly endorsed because I know from experience how much more comfortable it is, but I had no idea it helps for OHP too! I will definitely give it a try.

As for the bowtie - hook up a brother up with a link please lol. It sounds EXACTLY like what I'd need. Can it also be worn when sitting at a desk and working?

 

[notseqi]

As for the bowtie - hook up a brother up with a link please lol. It sounds EXACTLY like what I'd need. Can it also be worn when sitting at a desk and working?

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