Support NeoGAF

[StereoVsn]

Yeah, what kind of psychotic asshole would blockade a country or worse, invade it?

Sure you go on and keep equating. The situations are absolutely the same.

 

[Sonik]

Sure you go on and keep equating. The situations are absolutely the same.

You're right, it's not the same, the US has invaded far, FAR more countries than China

 

[Sonik]

I would worry about driver support.

They're obviously not worth it now. This is the Chinese dipping their toes in the market, judging by Xiaomi, ugreen and a couple of other quality Chinese companies we're gonna keep getting fucked up the ass by nvidia and AMD for at least two years, then the Chinese will release a flagship GPU that will be dirt cheap and pretty fucking amazing for the money and eventually as they gain market share they'll increase their prices but not nearly close to the ridiculous rip offs of current GPUs

 

[winjer]

You're right, it's not the same, the US has invaded far, FAR more countries than China

Remember that it was the USA that defeated Imperial Japan and saved China from constant defeats and millions of deaths.

 

[archangelmorph]

Yes, because MS is going to ban you from taking a flight or train (or disappear you) if you post Satya jokes on your Win11 PC.

Or MS will put an exit ban on you when you try to take a trip outside US (for reasons).

Or a million other really bad shit CCP does. But sure, MS spyware is just as bad.

No but the current US government will certainly ban me from entering the country if I shit talk them on social media (via ESTA denial or revocation).

The double standard here in trying to call out Chinese (draconian) autocracy in 2026 is pretty blatant.

 

[archangelmorph]

American manufacturers' anti-consumer tactics and sheer greed especially in the GPU market has made me wish for the Chinese to obliterate them like they're currently doing in other industries, so yes, I will gladly watch Nvidia crash and burn

Here here.

China will (ironically) single handedly save capitalism with these moves.

If NVIDIA and AMD don't like cheap (high quality) Chinese hardware entering their home turf and competing with them in their home vertical (gaming), then they have every right to oh I dunno…

Go back to fucking competing in the games market again, rather than desperately raping consumers because of their hard-on for AI.

 

[StereoVsn]

No but the current US government will certainly ban me from entering the country if I shit talk them on social media (via ESTA denial or revocation).

The double standard here in trying to call out Chinese (draconian) autocracy in 2026 is pretty blatant.

They will ban you from entering US. Are they going to prevent you from traveling anywhere at all or from taking a job in your country or arresting you (although Europe can and does arrest people for Social Media messages). You don't see the difference between that and what CCP does?

I am not saying US governments haven't sucked for many years. What I am saying is that there is a Grand Canyon of difference between that and CCP.

 

[archangelmorph]

They will ban you from entering US. Are they going to prevent you from traveling anywhere at all or from taking a job in your country or arresting you (although Europe can and does arrest people for Social Media messages). You don't see the difference between that and what CCP does?

I am not saying US governments haven't sucked for many years. What I am saying is that there is a Grand Canyon of difference between that and CCP.

No so much these days.

Yes I could get arrested in the US for pissing off the wrong front of the current crop administration.

Yes I could get scooped off the street randomly and dragged away from my family and friends by ICE for being brown.

Yes I could find myself in all sorts of hot water for saying the wrong thing politically publicly.

You haven't been watching the news at all over the past 18 months if you do not believe the US has descended into the mess it's currently in or if you think it's in anyway that far away from the CCP or other protectionist foreign states for that matter, given how your current president is running the country.

 

[cafecat]

If you trust its driver, then you go. The Chinese GPU have more driver problem than Intel. You need game fps test rather than score, also does it support dlss, fg type techs.

 

[yurinka]

We shall see what you think in 2027-2028 when China either blockades or invades Taiwan.

Taiwan already is part of China, they don't need to block or invade anything. Both sides recognize China as a single country. But one -which includes the vast majority of the country- says that the legit government of both mainland China and Taiwan is the one in mainland China (Popular Republic of China), and some Taiwanese say that their government (Republic of China) is thee legit one not for Taiwan, but for the whole China also including the mainland part.

Other than during 50 years after the WWI (Japan conquered it, so it was Japanese during this period), Taiwan always has been Chinese. After the WWI there was a Chinese Civil War, the winners are the basically the ones of the current Chinese government, and the losers got refugeed in Taiwan.

Both sides remain unite with a strong cultural and economic conection, but Taiwan is somewhat rebel and while they disagree, the mainland China tries to solve the issue and reunite them in a peaceful way.

The only side who wants to make a blockade and invasion there is USA, using Taiwan as excuse to fight China to try to mantain world hegemony in both economics, military and global influence. And well, also to have another big war to make sure the American military industry complex gets nice profits, even if as usual at the expense of killing a fuck ton of innocent people in another unneeded war.

Taiwan is not part of China. Taiwan is an independent country. Go speak to some Taiwanese people, especially the younger ones. None of them will tell you that they are part of China. The younger Taiwanese don't even call themselves
Chinese anymore either. They call themselves Taiwanese. And they fucking loathe China.

You live in dream world if you think Taiwan is part of China. It is it's own country.

Even closer to China, go to Hong Kong and ask them if they are Chinese. They will also tell you a big fat NO and most likely tell you to fuck off as well.

Despite being true that an important portion of their people is nationalist and consider themselves an independent country (which formally continues demanding to also own the mainland China even if obviously isn't realistic) no, Taiwan isn't an idependent country. It's a rebel province of China with a high degre of independence, so that in many ways works de facto as a country.

They can identify themselves as a horse if they want, but that doesn't make them a horse. Taiwan isn't a country because doesn't fullfill the conditions to be one. It doesn't have formal recognition of the rest of the countries other than a few tiny ones, doesn't have embassies in the other countries and doesn't have formal diplomatic relationships with the rest of the countries, despite having informal ones.

I live in Catalonia, a region within Spain with a lot of independist people who want to separate from Spain. They made a referendum that wasn't supported or recognized by anybody outside Catalonia, and some of them say we're now or should be in a Catalan republic (which only exists in their mind, nobody recognized anything and we continue being a region of Spain with a high degree of autonomy). Doesn't matter what they think, Catalonia isn't an independent country. Even if in some ways we may have more cultural difference with Spain (including our own language) than them with mainland China.

What makes a region to be a country or not isn't what people things: it's the formal recognition of the other countries and main international organizations.

 

[justiceiro]

As long they fab the memory modules themselves, they have all my support ( even if I have no intention on ever buying one of those)

 

[Signalis]

Taiwan already is part of China, they don't need to block or invade anything. Both sides recognize China as a single country. But one -which includes the vast majority of the country- says that the legit government of both mainland China and Taiwan is the one in mainland China (Popular Republic of China), and some Taiwanese say that their government (Republic of China) is thee legit one not for Taiwan, but for the whole China also including the mainland part.

Other than during 50 years after the WWI (Japan conquered it, so it was Japanese during this period), Taiwan always has been Chinese. After the WWI there was a Chinese Civil War, the winners are the basically the ones of the current Chinese government, and the losers got refugeed in Taiwan.

Both sides remain unite with a strong cultural and economic conection, but Taiwan is somewhat rebel and while they disagree, the mainland China tries to solve the issue and reunite them in a peaceful way.

The only side who wants to make a blockade and invasion there is USA, using Taiwan as excuse to fight China to try to mantain world hegemony in both economics, military and global influence. And well, also to have another big war to make sure the American military industry complex gets nice profits, even if as usual at the expense of killing a fuck ton of innocent people in another unneeded war.


Despite being true that an important portion of their people is nationalist and consider themselves an independent country (which formally continues demanding to also own the mainland China even if obviously isn't realistic) no, Taiwan isn't an idependent country. It's a rebel province of China with a high degre of independence, so that in many ways works de facto as a country.

They can identify themselves as a horse if they want, but that doesn't make them a horse. Taiwan isn't a country because doesn't fullfill the conditions to be one. It doesn't have formal recognition of the rest of the countries other than a few tiny ones, doesn't have embassies in the other countries and doesn't have formal diplomatic relationships with the rest of the countries, despite having informal ones.

I live in Catalonia, a region within Spain with a lot of independist people who want to separate from Spain. They made a referendum that wasn't supported or recognized by anybody outside Catalonia, and some of them say we're now or should be in a Catalan republic (which only exists in their mind, nobody recognized anything and we continue being a region of Spain with a high degree of autonomy). Doesn't matter what they think, Catalonia isn't an independent country. Even if in some ways we may have more cultural difference with Spain (including our own language) than them with mainland China.

What makes a region to be a country or not isn't what people things: it's the formal recognition of the other countries and main international organizations.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. But here's 50 cents for you or shall I say Wumao

 

[Paulistano]

With ccp built in spyware no thanks.

We consumers are happy to have a choice: nsa spyware or ccp spyware.

Choose your government flavor and be happy.

 

[sono]

As others have said competition is good esp as Nvidia now seems to have ai as core focus

 

[DerivedDataCache]

24 tflops. Not bad for their first attempt. Already better than a PS5.
If a 5090 is really gonna cost 5000 dollars people will switch to the Chinese brand.

 

[lachesis]

I'd like China being part of Taiwan, not the other way around.

Either way I wouldn't buy this GPU - I'd rather buy an Intel. But I would like to see China to be able to overproduce (like Shein or all those cheap Ali stuff) actual DDR5 Ram modules so that price would tank.

Edit: Also I wouldn't trust a single stuff on their press releases. I will wait till real reviews do come in.

 

[Bradamante3D]

Oh wow, missed that. That's interesting considering all the current CCP shenanigans around Taiwan.

Why would these shenanigans interfer with a Chinese graphics card company producing cards on an island that China considers to be part of China?

 

[StereoVsn]

Why would these shenanigans interfer with a Chinese graphics card company producing cards on an island that China considers to be part of China?

Yes, + 1000 social credit, comrade.

 

[StereoVsn]

No so much these days.

Yes I could get arrested in the US for pissing off the wrong front of the current crop administration.

Yes I could get scooped off the street randomly and dragged away from my family and friends by ICE for being brown.

Yes I could find myself in all sorts of hot water for saying the wrong thing politically publicly.

You haven't been watching the news at all over the past 18 months if you do not believe the US has descended into the mess it's currently in or if you think it's in anyway that far away from the CCP or other protectionist foreign states for that matter, given how your current president is running the country.

1. Trump government is certainly going on authoritarian bend.
2. Note the key word, "current". Unlike CCP, US will self correct. We have seen this before with say McCarthy era.
3. Vast majority of people arrested are illegal immigrants. From Legal perspective, Trump does have a cause so to speak. The whole situation is dumb and detrimental but it's legal. China doesn't have a system that can be relied on from Legal perspective as it's on the whims of CCP.
4. There have been issues with US Citizens and legal immigrants and Trump certainly overreached, and multiple times he has been thwarted by judiciary. This would never happen in China.

TLDR, the government systems are very different, there will be correction in US, and that will not happen in China due to one party rule unless Xi drops dead.

Anyway, I will agree to disagree on this and this is last one from me.

 

[Insane Metal]

24 tflops. Not bad for their first attempt. Already better than a PS5.
If a 5090 is really gonna cost 5000 dollars people will switch to the Chinese brand.

In gaming I bet it doesn't come anywhere close to a PS5, maybe PS4? I have to see it but their previous attempts sucked unfortunately.

 

[nemiroff]

No. But I'd love to see it knock Nvidia prices down.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

We consumers are happy to have a choice: nsa spyware or ccp spyware.

Choose your government flavor and be happy.

I'm confident that Nvidia nor amd put any hardware level spy, remote shut down or kernel that could take control over my pc.

China that puts kill switches in solar panels, windturbines and electric busses it sells the west however..

I'll never understand the ccp deflection with western whataboutism.

 

[Griffon]

Any added competition is good for that market.

 

[MrCunningham]

Maybe not a first generation GPU, but perhaps I will look at one after a few hardware revisions and a couple hundred driver updates. I still have a hard time convincing myself to buy an Intel Arc GPU, even though they have made some strides with the Battlemage line, and do have much more stable drivers. Nice to see China make some effort, here. But breaking into the GPU market is not an easy task.

 

[Signalis]

Yes, + 1000 social credit, comrade.

There are quite a few Wumao's on the site to be honest.

 

[Three]

They will ban you from entering US. Are they going to prevent you from traveling anywhere at all or from taking a job in your country or arresting you (although Europe can and does arrest people for Social Media messages). You don't see the difference between that and what CCP does?

I am not saying US governments haven't sucked for many years. What I am saying is that there is a Grand Canyon of difference between that and CCP.

You clearly don't remember the use of "extraordinary rendition".

Stop making this thread political anyway. The people who keep trying to make Chinese products political nonsense about "spyware" know full well that there was the Edward Snowden leak and PRISM which showed the US, through US companies, spying on forgien nationals. How exactly are they trying to get on a high horse about that?

 

[Durin]

I have no reason buy a Chinese GPU right now, because even if they can get great raw performance for the dollar...the driver support to leverage that power will take years to reach the compatibility of Nvidia, AMD or even Intel.

Also would need to see multiple years of their products in the wild, is there built quality consistent, and see if they truly support their products (RMAs, continued driver support for years in future, etc.). Chinese companies not the best track record to pull those things off vs Japanese or Korean brands.

 

[Three]

I'm confident that Nvidia nor amd put any hardware level spy, remote shut down or kernel that could take control over my pc.

China that puts kill switches in solar panels, windturbines and electric busses it sells the west however..

I'll never understand the ccp deflection with western whataboutism.

The whataboutism is normally from people who try to discredit products to sell other competing products because they don't like Chinese products advancing. This is the problem. Those risks don't exist on Chinese products any more than they do on American ones like Jeep. It was a found vulnerability but dumbasses try to fearmonger about this because of where it was made. As if China is interested in remotely stopping a bus and as if this can't be thwarted by simply removing the simcard in the bus.

 

[Kenpachii]

Good we need more competition.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Despite an announcement that the first GPUs have shipped on December 29th, I can't find a single source on the Chinese internet that actually confirms these existing. What I did see though is reports that Lisuan had problems paying their employees on time in previous years. This adds to my suspicions about the company.

It would be stupid to dismiss the Chinese A-list companies in various tech fields. But some previously unknown company suddenly emerging from the shadows with a story too good to be true ... usually means it really isn't.

 

[Shmunter]

Does it come with deep Bitcoin mining?

 

[Dirk Benedict]

You realize there was something called the Soviet Union in that period.
And one of the biggest murderer the world has ever seen, with Mao Zedong.
The USA might have done a lot of bad things, but not nearly as terrible as the USSR and Mao.

Tens of millions died, between the both of them.

 

[lh032]

It's amazing some people still doubt China when they product smartphones and ev cars now.

I'm telling you China is going all in every industry

 

[Spyxos]

Despite an announcement that the first GPUs have shipped on December 29th, I can't find a single source on the Chinese internet that actually confirms these existing. What I did see though is reports that Lisuan had problems paying their employees on time in previous years. This adds to my suspicions about the company.

It would be stupid to dismiss the Chinese A-list companies in various tech fields. But some previously unknown company suddenly emerging from the shadows with a story too good to be true ... usually means it really isn't.

I was wondering why you can't see them at all.

 

[Ryseer]

With ccp built in spyware no thanks.

Indeed not sure why people think this is good. Let's not forget who runs China. Homework was stolen to get this product.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

It's amazing some people still doubt China when they product smartphones and ev cars now.

I'm telling you China is going all in every industry

People still they're bucked toothed proles and walking around in those grey Mao suits. Xiaomi is an awesome brand.

 

[CobraAB]

China's rapid advancement in tech is insane.

Their stealing skills are impeccable.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Indeed not sure why people think this is good. Let's not forget who runs China. Homework was stolen to get this product.

At the beginning yes likely some, they were used for cheap labour and got something in exchange… some of that blame it on the corps investing there too.

If you think that the record amount of STEM graduates they produce per year every year for the last two decades or so means little and also underestimate their universities… sure we will keep focusing on "Homework was stolen" and remain unable to assess their capabilities. It is not a super awesome strategy.

 

[Lambogenie]

If the GPUs provide solid value in the same way their phones do, then sure, would be super interested. Getting spied on by the US is boring now.

 

[Lambogenie]

At the beginning yes likely some, they were used for cheap labour and got something in exchange… some of that blame it on the corps investing there too.

If you think that the record amount of STEM graduates they produce per year every year for the last two decades or so means little and also underestimate their universities… sure we will keep focusing on "Homework was stolen" and remain unable to assess their capabilities. It is not a super awesome strategy.

Also this. The disregard to home grown talent and engineers is insulting. Many of these same US companies probably outsource and work directly with China for concepting.

Face it, China's tech has changed remarkably in the last several years we'd be a fool to underestimate them, and that is of course not just borrowed tech (e.g. Shinkansen) but the sheer number of STEM graduates they have to iterate and innovate further.

 

[mhirano]

With ccp built in spyware no thanks.

I bet you are running Windows 11 on a hardware full of CIA/Mossad baked backdoors

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

More competition is always good, I don't plan to get any new GPU to replace my 5070ti or any of my pc parts till the 9000 series or 8000 series at least. But I do hope competition and more reasonable pricing becomes normal again for all the folks who are still on their old pc.

 

[meech]

24 tflops. Not bad for their first attempt. Already better than a PS5.
If a 5090 is really gonna cost 5000 dollars people will switch to the Chinese brand.

Yeah, unless Pindostan bans it as a security risk and spineless vassals like Germany(whose chancelors mobile phone was literally tapped by the nsa) follow suit. (like with Huawei 5g tech)